bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Apr 13, 2015 15:51:47 GMT
Latest: England 43-3...Trott, Cook & Ballance all out.
Geoff Boycott.."I think it's a safe side that England have picked. They've gone back to Jonathan Trott and James Tredwell, who have played before, they've picked three seamers who are all around the same pace. They could have picked a bowler like Liam Plunkett with extra pace, or the leg-spinner in Adil Rashid. You're never going to find anything out about these players by bowling them in the nets."
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Apr 13, 2015 16:18:02 GMT
It's the least inspiring team I've ever seen England take to the field with. There is no one in the top order with the capacity to take the game to the opposition, the spinner can't even get in his county side and the pace attack are very one dimensional.
It's at least £70 to go and watch test cricket in this country. Who on Earth would pay that much money to watch such a bland team? The captain, coach and selectors need to remember that cricket is an entertainment business and start selecting a more balanced side. A decade ago we had Trescothick, Vaughan, KP, Flintoff, Jones and Harmison who were all aggressive cricketers who nicely complimented the likes of Strauss, Bell, Hoggard and Giles. When did we become a team of off the shelf cricketers?
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Apr 13, 2015 16:32:13 GMT
It's the least inspiring team I've ever seen England take to the field with. There is no one in the top order with the capacity to take the game to the opposition, the spinner can't even get in his county side and the pace attack are very one dimensional. It's at least £70 to go and watch test cricket in this country. Who on Earth would pay that much money to watch such a bland team? The captain, coach and selectors need to remember that cricket is an entertainment business and start selecting a more balanced side. A decade ago we had Trescothick, Vaughan, KP, Flintoff, Jones and Harmison who were all aggressive cricketers who nicely complimented the likes of Strauss, Bell, Hoggard and Giles. When did we become a team of off the shelf cricketers? it's bland for sure.
Surely it was Stokes or Jordan, not both. As Boycott says why not Plunkett? Do we not have any aggressive (or fast) bowlers anymore
The batting line up doesn't exactly inspire any aggression either. Fair enough you have Cook and Root (whom I both like) but why go back to the Boycottesque Trott?
Cricket has evolved in the past few years, yet we seem to be harking back to some bygone age
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Post by lostinspace on Apr 13, 2015 18:43:27 GMT
decent stand with Root and Bell seemingly comfortable in the 60's... though Root has had a long on- pitch session with the physio, who it looked like was about the snap the yorkshireman into two!!
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Apr 13, 2015 20:22:08 GMT
It's the least inspiring team I've ever seen England take to the field with. There is no one in the top order with the capacity to take the game to the opposition, the spinner can't even get in his county side and the pace attack are very one dimensional. It's at least £70 to go and watch test cricket in this country. Who on Earth would pay that much money to watch such a bland team? The captain, coach and selectors need to remember that cricket is an entertainment business and start selecting a more balanced side. A decade ago we had Trescothick, Vaughan, KP, Flintoff, Jones and Harmison who were all aggressive cricketers who nicely complimented the likes of Strauss, Bell, Hoggard and Giles. When did we become a team of off the shelf cricketers? it's bland for sure.
Surely it was Stokes or Jordan, not both. As Boycott says why not Plunkett? Do we not have any aggressive (or fast) bowlers anymore
The batting line up doesn't exactly inspire any aggression either. Fair enough you have Cook and Root (whom I both like) but why go back to the Boycottesque Trott?
Cricket has evolved in the past few years, yet we seem to be harking back to some bygone age
Not sure I agree with regard to Stokes / Jordan. Stokes is capable of batting at 6 but is very much a fifth bowler. Jordan could play as part of a 4 man bowling attack but I don't think he could bat higher than 8. Personally I'd have left Broad back at Notts. He's clearly lacking in confidence and I think he'd benefit from having a chance to regain some form with both bat and ball away from the spotlight. Would have given us a chance to have a look at Mark Wood too who is a good bowler if he can stay fit. Good to see England batting with a bit of purpose after lunch and setting a reasonable platform for their middle order players who are actually capable of taking the game away from the opposition.
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Post by Bernard Briggs on Apr 14, 2015 7:10:23 GMT
It's at least £70 to go and watch test cricket in this country. Who on Earth would pay that much money to watch such a bland team? Me. I paid £60 for a ticket for the opening day of the 1st test v Australia at Cardiff, July 12th. Think the series will be closer than most people expect, especially if Broad and Anderson can make the most of the English conditions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 9:55:51 GMT
I thought Bell was nailed on for 200+ but he got a great delivery in the penultimate over. A shame.
400+ is a great recovery from a poor start but as always you can only judge a score once both sides have had a go.
If we don't win this series 3-0 I'll be surprised. Windies don't look great at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 16:31:11 GMT
I thought Bell was nailed on for 200+ but he got a great delivery in the penultimate over. A shame. 400+ is a great recovery from a poor start but as always you can only judge a score once both sides have had a go. If we don't win this series 3-0 I'll be surprised. Windies don't look great at all. 399 is still not bad but they should have done better really.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Apr 15, 2015 13:38:44 GMT
It is a generally dull looking England lineup. Don't see what the point is in picking Tredwell. The guy is never going to become England's number 1 spinner at this stage of his career. He's been a decent option but I can't see him playing any role at all in the Ashes so that's a peculiar one. Stokes at 6 looked a gamble to me - I am not at all sold on him as a top order batsmen. Seems to have done well though which is a good sign. I like that they picked Jordan to be honest - I think he has a sparkplug quality about him which could be good.
What I really don't like though is the batting. Why take Lyth and not give him a go?
People are saying the Windies aren't much cop and I'm inclined to agree but are we not somewhat guilty of overrating our own players? Cook's out of form, Trott has a hell of a lot to prove, Ballance had a disastrous World Cup. Stokes, Jordan, Buttler and Tredwell are all very inexperienced and have yet to fully prove themselves as consistent international performers. That leaves a core of Root, Bell, Broad and Anderson as reliable proven Test performers who are in decent form. Now that should be comfortably enough to beat an average looking Windies team but I don't think it's enough to destory them. They're not that bad they just lack match winners; they have a set of solid if somewhat uninspiring players. Chanderpaul is still one of the toughest wickets to get in international cricket - I feel like I've been watching him all my life. That was a very risky comment about 'mediocre West Indies' by Colin Graves. We need to perform to beat them, we can't just go through the motions. It's a much better, more motivated Windies side than the one that toured here a few years ago.
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shaggy
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Post by shaggy on Apr 15, 2015 17:02:21 GMT
Me. I paid £60 for a ticket for the opening day of the 1st test v Australia at Cardiff, July 12th. Think the series will be closer than most people expect, especially if Broad and Anderson can make the most of the English conditions.<br/>
Me too. I have a pair of tickets for Lords, Edgbaston & Trent Bridge. I think it will be a close series. Need to get KP back in the side though...
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Post by lostinspace on Apr 15, 2015 18:34:03 GMT
quick wrap up of the last 4 WI wickets after tea, good to see Tredwell get 4 for his efforts, an up tempo scoring effort tomorrow should see England in a good place to get a positive result
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Apr 15, 2015 19:52:50 GMT
quick wrap up of the last 4 WI wickets after tea, good to see Tredwell get 4 for his efforts, an up tempo scoring effort tomorrow should see England in a good place to get a positive result Yep - that was a decent effort but Windies still made us work for it. Unlikely to get more than 4 sessions to bowl them out now so they're certainly not rolling over for us. Cook and Trott fail for second time so that doesn't answer any questions. I'm sure we'll build a good lead anyway but it's not inspiring massive amount of confidence in certain key players.
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Post by lostinspace on Apr 15, 2015 20:10:12 GMT
quick wrap up of the last 4 WI wickets after tea, good to see Tredwell get 4 for his efforts, an up tempo scoring effort tomorrow should see England in a good place to get a positive result Yep - that was a decent effort but Windies still made us work for it. Unlikely to get more than 4 sessions to bowl them out now so they're certainly not rolling over for us. Cook and Trott fail for second time so that doesn't answer any questions. I'm sure we'll build a good lead anyway but it's not inspiring massive amount of confidence in certain key players. On the Trott side of things, dont think he is really prime for an opener on this recall,IT may be the WI but they do have the nucleus of an emerging team that is better than the current standard being delivered, the patience level is not quite there yet for them, too much limited over stuff in the blood... i believe he should be in at 3-4 in order to get him test confident, if he cant manage in the WI then he should not be forced to face up to the Aussies
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Apr 15, 2015 20:39:27 GMT
Yep - that was a decent effort but Windies still made us work for it. Unlikely to get more than 4 sessions to bowl them out now so they're certainly not rolling over for us. Cook and Trott fail for second time so that doesn't answer any questions. I'm sure we'll build a good lead anyway but it's not inspiring massive amount of confidence in certain key players. On the Trott side of things, dont think he is really prime for an opener on this recall,IT may be the WI but they do have the nucleus of an emerging team that is better than the current standard being delivered, the patience level is not quite there yet for them, too much limited over stuff in the blood... i believe he should be in at 3-4 in order to get him test confident, if he cant manage in the WI then he should not be forced to face up to the Aussies Yeah that's what I think. I thought it was slightly odd they recalled for this series to be honest. I'd have thought it would have made more sense for him to be recalled for New Zealand series and then go from there. He could also have spent a few weeks scoring runs for Warwcks beforehand too. In the meantime England could have a look at Lyth. Whether he's an opener or not I don't know but it does rather seem like we've set him up to fail a bit here. I hope the Windies are showing signs of life; the problems are nearly all off field. A full strength, fully motivated West Indies while not being 70s/80s vintage would be perfectly competitive but that hasn't happened for years. But I like the look of some of these young players they have.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Apr 17, 2015 16:01:35 GMT
Latest at lunch..WI 162-5, England have a great chance to take 5 more wkts in the 2 remaining sessions.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Apr 17, 2015 18:56:43 GMT
Latest at lunch..WI 162-5, England have a great chance to take 5 more wkts in the 2 remaining sessions. 6 down at Tea though so definitely making England fight hard here. If these 2 can see off the first hour Windies may be able to cling on as the pitch is doing very little by the sound of it. Also, 1 more wicket for Anderson and he becomes England's highest wicket taker.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 19:54:25 GMT
Jimmy's done it! 384 Test wickets.
Now win the match, England.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Apr 17, 2015 22:08:54 GMT
The Windies hung on. Well don't to them. Holder and Ramdin batted really well.
I know the pitch was flat but I there are areas for concern. Broad looked better in this test but our opening bowlers were out bowled by Jerome Taylor. I thought Stokes was a bit unlucky with the ball but England's support bowlers just struggle to take wickets. For all Tredwells plaudits in the first innings he was out bowled by Root in the second. I still think it was a mistake to leave out Rashid. He will go for a few runs but you don't need someone to block up an end when you have 5 bowlers and Root who is capable of bowling a few overs too. The selection is indicative of the conservatism that bedevils English cricket at the moment.
I would have given Lyth a go but I guess we have to stick with Trott for this series. One test isn't enough to judge whether his selection was a good one but England's top order continue to cause concern. The Middle order is looking more secure although both Root and Ballance get a bit stuck on the crease sometimes. I think we'll know more about them this time next year. If they can both get runs against New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and Pakistan then we really can consider them the real deal.
Finally kudos to Anderson. He is a real menace, especially to left handers. His methodology (going round the wicket and trying to take the ball away from the lefty rather than trying to get him out LBW) is quite a new phenomenon. He knows his own game inside out and while I think his powers are waning he's still our go to bowler.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Apr 19, 2015 0:06:49 GMT
The Windies hung on. Well don't to them. Holder and Ramdin batted really well. I know the pitch was flat but I there are areas for concern. Broad looked better in this test but our opening bowlers were out bowled by Jerome Taylor. I thought Stokes was a bit unlucky with the ball but England's support bowlers just struggle to take wickets. For all Tredwells plaudits in the first innings he was out bowled by Root in the second. I still think it was a mistake to leave out Rashid. He will go for a few runs but you don't need someone to block up an end when you have 5 bowlers and Root who is capable of bowling a few overs too. The selection is indicative of the conservatism that bedevils English cricket at the moment. I would have given Lyth a go but I guess we have to stick with Trott for this series. One test isn't enough to judge whether his selection was a good one but England's top order continue to cause concern. The Middle order is looking more secure although both Root and Ballance get a bit stuck on the crease sometimes. I think we'll know more about them this time next year. If they can both get runs against New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and Pakistan then we really can consider them the real deal. Finally kudos to Anderson. He is a real menace, especially to left handers. His methodology (going round the wicket and trying to take the ball away from the lefty rather than trying to get him out LBW) is quite a new phenomenon. He knows his own game inside out and while I think his powers are waning he's still our go to bowler. Firstly, absolutely hats off to the Windies. It's really good to see them play competitively like that again. They've never been as terrible talent wise as their performances over the last decade or so have suggested but for whatever reason the desire to dig in when the going gets tough has not been there which is the complete opposite to the previous 80 years of Windies cricket. So it's good to see - it was also good to see the atmosphere at the ground seemed decent from the home fans for the first time in a while which is good to see because the game really needs more decent Test nations. One of the problems with England is the utter obsession with the Ashes; arguably neither team in that contest has really been number 1 in the World now for 5 years. I think Holder might really be something if he's allowed to develop into a proper test player; seems like a leader too. I felt Windies deserved the draw because I think they actually played the better cricket of the 2 sides. England should beat them but were in a kind of cruise control for the whole game. There was not a single performance with bat or ball that pushed over the edge into winning the game so I think it would have been a bit of an injustice if we'd ground our way to victory. We weren't terrible but it was a bit uninspiring. Ultimately I think the game highlighted the limitation of Tredwell. He's a solid, reliable defensive offspinner spinner who does a good job but he's never going to be a consistent match winner; he just doesn't do enough with the ball. It showed the value of Graeme Swann to England - we'd have comfortably won that match with Swann in the side. An attacking spinner wins you Test Matches consistently anywhere in the World; in my entire time watching England we've only ever produced 2 I can think of; Swann and Tufnell and Tufnell was dreadfully treated by incompetent England selectors who didn't realise what they had. The rest of the time we've relied on doing the damage with the new ball and attritional, disciplined bowling. But on a flat wicket you need a bit more than that. We just didn't have the bowling attack to turn the screw. I'm not absolutely convinced we have that bowler really. Rashid might have done but it's a bit hypothetical; he might equally have been trashed. Slow wickets aren't normally great for leggies either. I'd have liked to have seen them pick him but I don't think he'd have been the difference. Moeen might have been more of a threat but that's not a guarantee either. Without Swann I think it's just harder for England to win tests away from home, simply as that. I think a secondary reason we didn't win was scoring too slowly in the second innings. The Windies bowling is their weakest suit and we should have been in a position to stick them in for an extra session. The reason we weren't is that top order failed which meant we had to make sure we secured the game first and then really we didn't attack as early as we should have done once that happened. It was just a bit flat from England. Dead pitch, you have to try things. Just following the standard strategy and expecting that to do it for you was a bit disappointing. Don't think they'll change much for the next test. Possibly Moeen in for Stokes. But they've pretty much just confirmed that Trott's in the for the rest of the series so expect to hear lots of griping from the Yorkshire commentary contingent about Rashid and Lyth carrying the drinks while Yorkshire are playing key Championship games. Anderson is terrific and the secret was that he learned to take wickets by boring bowling when the ball wasn't doing much for him; that's proper craft. Broad doesn't have that. I'm pretty confident in the middle order but as ever with England you wonder what would happen if they had to face a decent spinner. Lucky for them there aren't too many around right now but Nathan Lyon of 2015 is a totally different proposition from what he was a few years back.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Apr 19, 2015 9:27:59 GMT
The Windies hung on. Well don't to them. Holder and Ramdin batted really well. I know the pitch was flat but I there are areas for concern. Broad looked better in this test but our opening bowlers were out bowled by Jerome Taylor. I thought Stokes was a bit unlucky with the ball but England's support bowlers just struggle to take wickets. For all Tredwells plaudits in the first innings he was out bowled by Root in the second. I still think it was a mistake to leave out Rashid. He will go for a few runs but you don't need someone to block up an end when you have 5 bowlers and Root who is capable of bowling a few overs too. The selection is indicative of the conservatism that bedevils English cricket at the moment. I would have given Lyth a go but I guess we have to stick with Trott for this series. One test isn't enough to judge whether his selection was a good one but England's top order continue to cause concern. The Middle order is looking more secure although both Root and Ballance get a bit stuck on the crease sometimes. I think we'll know more about them this time next year. If they can both get runs against New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and Pakistan then we really can consider them the real deal. Finally kudos to Anderson. He is a real menace, especially to left handers. His methodology (going round the wicket and trying to take the ball away from the lefty rather than trying to get him out LBW) is quite a new phenomenon. He knows his own game inside out and while I think his powers are waning he's still our go to bowler. Firstly, absolutely hats off to the Windies. It's really good to see them play competitively like that again. They've never been as terrible talent wise as their performances over the last decade or so have suggested but for whatever reason the desire to dig in when the going gets tough has not been there which is the complete opposite to the previous 80 years of Windies cricket. So it's good to see - it was also good to see the atmosphere at the ground seemed decent from the home fans for the first time in a while which is good to see because the game really needs more decent Test nations. One of the problems with England is the utter obsession with the Ashes; arguably neither team in that contest has really been number 1 in the World now for 5 years. I think Holder might really be something if he's allowed to develop into a proper test player; seems like a leader too. I felt Windies deserved the draw because I think they actually played the better cricket of the 2 sides. England should beat them but were in a kind of cruise control for the whole game. There was not a single performance with bat or ball that pushed over the edge into winning the game so I think it would have been a bit of an injustice if we'd ground our way to victory. We weren't terrible but it was a bit uninspiring. Ultimately I think the game highlighted the limitation of Tredwell. He's a solid, reliable defensive offspinner spinner who does a good job but he's never going to be a consistent match winner; he just doesn't do enough with the ball. It showed the value of Graeme Swann to England - we'd have comfortably won that match with Swann in the side. An attacking spinner wins you Test Matches consistently anywhere in the World; in my entire time watching England we've only ever produced 2 I can think of; Swann and Tufnell and Tufnell was dreadfully treated by incompetent England selectors who didn't realise what they had. The rest of the time we've relied on doing the damage with the new ball and attritional, disciplined bowling. But on a flat wicket you need a bit more than that. We just didn't have the bowling attack to turn the screw. I'm not absolutely convinced we have that bowler really. Rashid might have done but it's a bit hypothetical; he might equally have been trashed. Slow wickets aren't normally great for leggies either. I'd have liked to have seen them pick him but I don't think he'd have been the difference. Moeen might have been more of a threat but that's not a guarantee either. Without Swann I think it's just harder for England to win tests away from home, simply as that. I think a secondary reason we didn't win was scoring too slowly in the second innings. The Windies bowling is their weakest suit and we should have been in a position to stick them in for an extra session. The reason we weren't is that top order failed which meant we had to make sure we secured the game first and then really we didn't attack as early as we should have done once that happened. It was just a bit flat from England. Dead pitch, you have to try things. Just following the standard strategy and expecting that to do it for you was a bit disappointing. Don't think they'll change much for the next test. Possibly Moeen in for Stokes. But they've pretty much just confirmed that Trott's in the for the rest of the series so expect to hear lots of griping from the Yorkshire commentary contingent about Rashid and Lyth carrying the drinks while Yorkshire are playing key Championship games. Anderson is terrific and the secret was that he learned to take wickets by boring bowling when the ball wasn't doing much for him; that's proper craft. Broad doesn't have that. I'm pretty confident in the middle order but as ever with England you wonder what would happen if they had to face a decent spinner. Lucky for them there aren't too many around right now but Nathan Lyon of 2015 is a totally different proposition from what he was a few years back. Agree with almost all of that with the exception of Moeen for Stokes. Surely we wouldn't be daft enough to select two off spinners and Root? If we want to pick two spinners we need someone who can spin it the other way. Tredwell's picked up a knock too so there's a convenient excuse!
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