aghast
David Williams
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 727
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Reform
Sept 4, 2024 16:35:10 GMT
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Post by aghast on Sept 4, 2024 16:35:10 GMT
Anyone who pretends Reform are not just a single issue party is either misinformed or in denial.
They only have other "policies" because they have to fill more than one page in their manifesto. It would be embarrassing otherwise.
Ok, some people vote Reform. Quite a few actually.
But no way on this earth are they voting Reform because of their dynamic new economic policies.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Reform
Sept 4, 2024 17:41:05 GMT
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Post by oldie on Sept 4, 2024 17:41:05 GMT
Anyone who pretends Reform are not just a single issue party is either misinformed or in denial. They only have other "policies" because they have to fill more than one page in their manifesto. It would be embarrassing otherwise. Ok, some people vote Reform. Quite a few actually. But no way on this earth are they voting Reform because of their dynamic new economic policies. Quite. But they appease the simple minded innumerate though.
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Reform
Sept 4, 2024 19:13:10 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Sept 4, 2024 19:13:10 GMT
Anyone who pretends Reform are not just a single issue party is either misinformed or in denial. They only have other "policies" because they have to fill more than one page in their manifesto. It would be embarrassing otherwise. Ok, some people vote Reform. Quite a few actually. But no way on this earth are they voting Reform because of their dynamic new economic policies. Quite. But they appease the simple minded innumerate though. I think you are talking about Labour there!
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 4, 2024 21:22:53 GMT
The parties may be 'new' but their usual single policy is as old as the hills. The anti immigration and blame everything on immigrants policy has been used for over a 100 years. Appeal to the masses with a threat which distracts them from the real problem makers, politicians and the rich who sponsor them. Reform Part Ltd itself is simply the evolution of a number of parties that go back to the 70s but have gained 'respectability' along the way. Across Europe the parties are gaining votes and using the same tactics and focus. But its not immigrants we need to fear its those who have gained incredible wealth exploiting the bulk of people while distracting them with the 'migrant who is coming to steal benefits and their jobs' propaganda. They know it works as history has proven it. Ah,so we should blame the rich like the Communists and their associates have been doing for over 100 years ? Class War tried that and they dont exist any more. The problem for me with that idea is that i havent got any envy for people who have got on in life, in the USSR they werent all equal either,the party hierarchy had nice limousines and Dacha's but the workers got to stand in queues and live in a sh*tty little flat,so the leftist idea doesnt appeal to me. No Trymer, that's not what I am saying. But ask yourself, who has gained most in the last 14 years. Has any migrant you know brought down a European country, interfered in a political election, obtained billions in deals through their connections with the Conservative party, supported Brexit and then moved billions abroad to tax havens, etc. I am not envious of billionaires and I am not a communist because as you have eluded to it is just another way for the people at the top to suppress those at the bottom and gain massively. Look at the oligarchs and how they gained their money. But I do believe each of us has a responsibility to our fellow man, however poor or however wealthy we are. It doesn't make someone a communist just because they care for their fellow humans. Take the billionaires. If you were a billionaire would you a) spend money going into space, b) buy a social media company and then trash it just to support a dysfunctional man who wants to be president or c) give a $billion to a university so poor medical students could study and have all of their fees paid and then go on to benefit their fellow human beings. When I cast off this mortal coil, I want to be remembered as someone who gave a sh!t about my fellow man, not a narcissist or self centred egotist. What is so wrong in wanting the earth's bounty shared amongst all human beings and not just benefitting a lucky few while a vast amount of humanity live in poverty?
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Reform
Sept 4, 2024 22:51:58 GMT
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Post by baldrick on Sept 4, 2024 22:51:58 GMT
Found this article earlier which I thought laid out some interesting points. conservativehome.com/2024/09/04/patrick-english-winning-the-conservative-leadership-race-requires-appealing-to-three-tribes/In it, the writer pointed out a few interesting polling figures and a breakdown of party, country and membership. "the post-election PCP remains similar in terms of its divides to pre-election, with around 2-in-5 still associated with the liberal ‘Bright Blue’ group, one quarter affiliated to the European Research Group, and 35 per cent aligned with the Blue Collar Conservatism group. There is no such typology of Conservative party members, but evidence from polling (including below) consistently suggests the membership is much more right-wing than the balance in the PCP. As well, plenty of polling evidence (again, including the below) has demonstrated that the Conservative party membership is significantly more right-wing, and has significantly different priorities, to even Conservative voters, let alone the wider public." This response in the comments was good: "Middle England - the vast majority of the electorate - decided they've had quite enough and gave us the old heave-ho for three rather compelling reasons: (1.) Engaging in ideological tomfoolery - the Brexit wars (many voters held their noses in 2017 and 2019 to keep Corbyn out), (2.) distrust in our integrity, thanks to Partygate and an embarrassing parade of sleaze under Johnson, and (3.) the obliteration of our most cherished asset: economic competence, spectacularly torpedoed by Truss and her kamikaze budget."
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 15,747
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 11:31:41 GMT
Post by bluetornados on Sept 13, 2024 11:31:41 GMT
‘Nigel Farage Must Resist!’ Ann Widdecombe warns of ‘second-rate Parliament’ if Labour impose GB News ban...by Ben Chapman i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/06/30/21/86760773-13585853-image-a-6_1719780094613.jpgReform UK immigration spokesperson and former Tory minister Ann Widdecombe is concerned that Labour’s proposed crackdown on MPs having second jobs will lead to a “second-rate” parliament. It emerged yesterday that the Modernisation Committee had been established, tasked with reforming House of Commons procedures. An early priority for MPs in the group is to look into outside paid engagements such as media appearances. Such a clampdown would concern the likes of Reform MPs Lee Anderson and Nigel Farage, who both host shows on GB News. Speaking on The People’s Channel, Widdecombe questioned where the line is drawn. “I think if you look at the whole argument around MPs’ second jobs, you have to make so many exceptions”, she said. “At the end of it, what you’re really doing is choosing who you’re going to prevent from doing second jobs. “That’s what seems to be happening here. They’ve said it’s paid media appearances, but where does it stop? They’ve got to decide exactly what they’re going to ban. “Are one off articles in newspapers on subjects of expertise going to be banned? What are they going to do? They haven’t actually told us.” Patrick Christys suggested that some people subscribe to the theory that MPs should be solely focused on their task of representing their constituents. But according to Widdecombe, such an intervention would only do more to disengage MPs from those they are meant to be representing. “I can’t imaging anything worse than a parliament full of people who have no connection with the outside world beyond the job they actually do”, she aid. “Then you start on the exceptions. You have doctors, dentists.” Asked how Nigel Farage should act in response, Widdecombe said the Reform UK leader will seek to ensure such laws do not come into place. Committees are usually chaired by backbench MPs but this one is chaired by Lucy Powell, the leader of the House of Commons. She said: "It is a great privilege to serve constituents as a member of parliament, but this privilege requires us to embody the very highest standards. "As we turn the page in this parliament following the events of the last, the Modernisation Committee will find ways to do things better." She said the committee will "set out to drive up standards, improve the culture and working practices and reform procedures to make the House of Commons more open and accessible to people from all walks of life".
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 12:10:31 GMT
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Post by baselswh on Sept 13, 2024 12:10:31 GMT
‘Nigel Farage Must Resist!’ Ann Widdecombe warns of ‘second-rate Parliament’ if Labour impose GB News ban...by Ben Chapman i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/06/30/21/86760773-13585853-image-a-6_1719780094613.jpgReform UK immigration spokesperson and former Tory minister Ann Widdecombe is concerned that Labour’s proposed crackdown on MPs having second jobs will lead to a “second-rate” parliament. It emerged yesterday that the Modernisation Committee had been established, tasked with reforming House of Commons procedures. An early priority for MPs in the group is to look into outside paid engagements such as media appearances. Such a clampdown would concern the likes of Reform MPs Lee Anderson and Nigel Farage, who both host shows on GB News. Speaking on The People’s Channel, Widdecombe questioned where the line is drawn. “I think if you look at the whole argument around MPs’ second jobs, you have to make so many exceptions”, she said. “At the end of it, what you’re really doing is choosing who you’re going to prevent from doing second jobs. “That’s what seems to be happening here. They’ve said it’s paid media appearances, but where does it stop? They’ve got to decide exactly what they’re going to ban. “Are one off articles in newspapers on subjects of expertise going to be banned? What are they going to do? They haven’t actually told us.” Patrick Christys suggested that some people subscribe to the theory that MPs should be solely focused on their task of representing their constituents. But according to Widdecombe, such an intervention would only do more to disengage MPs from those they are meant to be representing. “I can’t imaging anything worse than a parliament full of people who have no connection with the outside world beyond the job they actually do”, she aid. “Then you start on the exceptions. You have doctors, dentists.” Asked how Nigel Farage should act in response, Widdecombe said the Reform UK leader will seek to ensure such laws do not come into place. Committees are usually chaired by backbench MPs but this one is chaired by Lucy Powell, the leader of the House of Commons. She said: "It is a great privilege to serve constituents as a member of parliament, but this privilege requires us to embody the very highest standards. "As we turn the page in this parliament following the events of the last, the Modernisation Committee will find ways to do things better." She said the committee will "set out to drive up standards, improve the culture and working practices and reform procedures to make the House of Commons more open and accessible to people from all walks of life". Farage must also work with GB News.Vital for the UK.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2024 13:23:23 GMT
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 13:24:32 GMT
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Post by oldie on Sept 13, 2024 13:24:32 GMT
Absolutely it's about time
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 13:41:00 GMT
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Post by baselswh on Sept 13, 2024 13:41:00 GMT
There should be a Reform member on it. More votes at the GE than Libs.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 14:04:49 GMT
Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2024 14:04:49 GMT
There should be a Reform member on it. More votes at the GE than Libs. Why? It's not based on votes, it's based on number of MPs. Unfortunately that's how it works. Independents including Jeremy Corbyn's group of independents, SNP, and Sinn Fein have more MPs, the DUP have the same.
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 14:13:30 GMT
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Post by baselswh on Sept 13, 2024 14:13:30 GMT
There should be a Reform member on it. More votes at the GE than Libs. Why? It's not based on votes, it's based on number of MPs. Unfortunately that's how it works. Independents including Jeremy Corbyn's group of independents, SNP, and Sinn Fein have more MPs, the DUP have the same. Well they should get some modernising done and get Reform on it.
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aghast
David Williams
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 727
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 18:39:55 GMT
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Post by aghast on Sept 13, 2024 18:39:55 GMT
Why? It's not based on votes, it's based on number of MPs. Unfortunately that's how it works. Independents including Jeremy Corbyn's group of independents, SNP, and Sinn Fein have more MPs, the DUP have the same. Well they should get some modernising done and get Reform on it. So you simultaneously support and oppose the reform (if you'll pardon the expression) of MPs and second jobs?
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 18:45:00 GMT
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Post by baselswh on Sept 13, 2024 18:45:00 GMT
Well they should get some modernising done and get Reform on it. So you simultaneously support and oppose the reform (if you'll pardon the expression) of MPs and second jobs? Have the Modernisation gang made any official decisions yet?
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aghast
David Williams
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 727
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 18:59:28 GMT
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Post by aghast on Sept 13, 2024 18:59:28 GMT
So you simultaneously support and oppose the reform (if you'll pardon the expression) of MPs and second jobs? Have the Modernisation gang made any official decisions yet? No, why are you asking?
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 19:11:54 GMT
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Post by baselswh on Sept 13, 2024 19:11:54 GMT
Well they should get some modernising done and get Reform on it. So you simultaneously support and oppose the reform (if you'll pardon the expression) of MPs and second jobs? What do you mean?
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 19:35:52 GMT
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Post by baselswh on Sept 13, 2024 19:35:52 GMT
I wonder how this Modernisation committee will justify eg banning MPs from having a 2nd or even 3rd job?
Assuming that's one of their aims.
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 19:58:40 GMT
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Post by baldrick on Sept 13, 2024 19:58:40 GMT
So you simultaneously support and oppose the reform (if you'll pardon the expression) of MPs and second jobs? What do you mean? You said there should be modernising done by getting Reform MPs onto the Committee but appear to not want change by opposing MPs from having second jobs.
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 20:18:51 GMT
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Post by baselswh on Sept 13, 2024 20:18:51 GMT
You said there should be modernising done by getting Reform MPs onto the Committee but appear to not want change by opposing MPs from having second jobs. Thanks. I want a fairer committee. A Reform member would add balance. How is stopping eg Farage working for GB News modern and an improvement? I think this Modernisation Committee ( assuming they want to stop Farage) will struggle to come up with a convincing argument. I can't see them succeeding,not by playing fair at least.
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Reform
Sept 13, 2024 21:01:33 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Sept 13, 2024 21:01:33 GMT
Anyone who pretends Reform are not just a single issue party is either misinformed or in denial. They only have other "policies" because they have to fill more than one page in their manifesto. It would be embarrassing otherwise. Ok, some people vote Reform. Quite a few actually. But no way on this earth are they voting Reform because of their dynamic new economic policies. Funny, but before the last election, Reform were saying that the NHS doesn't need more money, it needs a reform. None of the other parties were saying that. What are Labour saying now? The NHS doesn't need more money, but it needs a reform. However, the reform that Labour are proposing just doesn't cut it.
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