oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,561
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Post by oldie on Oct 10, 2024 16:37:56 GMT
Oh I can and want to. But I don't recognise the immigration question as being framed by faith, skin colour or culture. And "When I said SEEM to look Muslim, I meant that I was aware that they were Muslim due that they were apart of of the Muslim scout group from Ashley down" You do realise how contradictory and incoherent that reads. If they were from a Muslim Scout Group the chances are they are Muslim, surely? There is no SEEM about it. Anyway I don't believe you, you didn't say that to start with, it was Baldrick who told us of the Muslim Scout Group. You can pull your pants up now I don't care what you believe, I saw this picture and article on the day it was released and was going to post it then.I will swear on my father's grave to that. Anyway, I'm getting no where with you so I'm off to work. 👋 Enjoy |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,556 
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Post by trymer on Oct 10, 2024 18:05:40 GMT
I absolutely do believe that immigration is an issue that needs to be discussed. But...what I object to is framing the debate by a) skin colour b) choice of faith c) ethnicity d) culture What I want it to be framed by is a) benefit to our economy 1. Skill 2. Additional labour b) a counter to our inherent demographic pressures c) a recognition of the north / south divide in the world economy. So, if someone comes on here shouting anti Muslim or anti this or that skin colour, then yes, the response will be appropriate That all sounds fine but then on another thread you say that you want Badenoch to win the tory leadership because she is black and female...thats as retarded as saying that you dont want her to win because she is black and female. Surely the balanced view is that irrespective of their skin or their gender the best person for the job should get it ?.....although if I am honest I hope that the worst candidate gets to lead the tories into oblivion. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,561
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Post by oldie on Oct 10, 2024 18:25:42 GMT
I absolutely do believe that immigration is an issue that needs to be discussed. But...what I object to is framing the debate by a) skin colour b) choice of faith c) ethnicity d) culture What I want it to be framed by is a) benefit to our economy 1. Skill 2. Additional labour b) a counter to our inherent demographic pressures c) a recognition of the north / south divide in the world economy. So, if someone comes on here shouting anti Muslim or anti this or that skin colour, then yes, the response will be appropriate That all sounds fine but then on another thread you say that you want Badenoch to win the tory leadership because she is black and female...thats as retarded as saying that you dont want her to win because she is black and female. Surely the balanced view is that irrespective of their skin or their gender the best person for the job should get it ?.....although if I am honest I hope that the worst candidate gets to lead the tories into oblivion. In principle of course you are right. But against the backdrop of the posts on here from some quarters I do hope she wins. The backdrop being the negative comments about her background and then the general misogyny against women expressed by many, of which you are the leading protagonist (Angela Raynor refers) |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,556
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Post by trymer on Oct 10, 2024 18:33:03 GMT
That all sounds fine but then on another thread you say that you want Badenoch to win the tory leadership because she is black and female...thats as retarded as saying that you dont want her to win because she is black and female. Surely the balanced view is that irrespective of their skin or their gender the best person for the job should get it ?.....although if I am honest I hope that the worst candidate gets to lead the tories into oblivion. In principle of course you are right. But against the backdrop of the posts on here from some quarters I do hope she wins. The backdrop being the negative comments about her background and then the general misogyny against women expressed by many, of which you are the leading protagonist (Angela Raynor refers) I have tried to explain to you that my thoughts about Angela Rayner are not my thoughts about women in general so they are not misogynistic...do you think that its impossible to criticise someone because they are a woman ? that would be sexist surely ? Really you are admitting that you want KB to win purely because you want to take the opposite view to other posters,that is rather puerile . |
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Post by baldrick on Oct 10, 2024 18:44:00 GMT
In principle of course you are right. But against the backdrop of the posts on here from some quarters I do hope she wins. The backdrop being the negative comments about her background and then the general misogyny against women expressed by many, of which you are the leading protagonist (Angela Raynor refers) I have tried to explain to you that my thoughts about Angela Rayner are not my thoughts about women in general so they are not misogynistic...do you think that its impossible to criticise someone because they are a woman ? that would be sexist surely ? Really you are admitting that you want KB to win purely because you want to take the opposite view to other posters,that is rather puerile . You may not be misogynistic, but the language used was. So is the term "retarded" something not really appropriate. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,561
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Post by oldie on Oct 10, 2024 19:13:16 GMT
I have tried to explain to you that my thoughts about Angela Rayner are not my thoughts about women in general so they are not misogynistic...do you think that its impossible to criticise someone because they are a woman ? that would be sexist surely ? Really you are admitting that you want KB to win purely because you want to take the opposite view to other posters,that is rather puerile . You may not be misogynistic, but the language used was. So is the term "retarded" something not really appropriate. And I am quite happy to take the opposite view of posters when their posts, in my opinion, are as close overt prejudice as it gets. If only just to highlight that point. |
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Post by baselswh on Oct 10, 2024 21:32:20 GMT
A Kurdish migrant has been given life after pushing a man on a tube line.
Luckily the victim survived.
In the scenario you wanted to consider this in financially terms, I suppose it'll cost the British tax payer loads of dosh to keep the nutter in prison.
What a waste of money?
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Post by francegas on Oct 10, 2024 21:55:21 GMT
A Kurdish migrant has been given life after pushing a man on a tube line. Luckily the victim survived. In the scenario you wanted to consider this in financially terms, I suppose it'll cost the British tax payer loads of dosh to keep the nutter in prison. What a waste of money? This individual is a homeless failed asylum seeker. He already had 12 convictions for 21 offences including assault, anti-social behaviour and outraging public decency. You can now add attempted murder to that list. So now he has a warm cell, comfortable bed, 3 square meals a day, free healthcare, free dental treatment. He was sentenced to life to serve a minimum of "8" years. (Hardly life is it) all to be funded by the tax payer. Why is the UK so soft? He should have been deported after his first offence. |
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 15,768
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Post by bluetornados on Oct 10, 2024 22:30:28 GMT
Man who pushed stranger onto tracks as train approached jailed for life..By Steven Smith, Content Editor
A jury heard that Mr Potoczek narrowly missed touching the live rail
i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/07/31/12/87989719-13693071-image-a-2_1722425829769.jpg
Tadeusz Potoczek was seen walking along the platform at Oxford Circus
i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/07/31/12/87989725-13693071-image-a-1_1722425824888.jpg
Brwa Shorsh, 24, was sentenced on Thursday at Inner London Crown Court after he was found guilty of attempted murder
A homeless man who pushed a stranger onto the tracks of the London Underground has been jailed for life with a minimum term of eight years. Brwa Shorsh, 24, was sentenced on Thursday at Inner London Crown Court after being found guilty of attempted murder in an attack a judge said would "strike fear into every traveller on the Underground". On February 3rd, Shorsh, who entered the UK illegally, pushed postman Tadeusz Potoczek off a platform at Oxford Circus station and into the path of an oncoming Victoria Line train. Mr Potoczek, who was 60 at the time of the attack, was on his way home from work and had walked past Shorsh, who was sitting on a bench. Without any provocation, Shorsh, of no fixed address, leapt up and shoved him off the platform and onto the train tracks. The victim managed to stay on his feet and a passerby helped him to climb back up onto the platform just as a train pulled into the station. A jury heard that Mr Potoczek narrowly missed touching the live rail on the southbound Victoria Line. In his sentencing remarks, Mr Justice Kelleher said it was "purely through luck that Mr Potoczek fell close to the edge of the track and did not touch the electric rail". Kurdish migrant Shorsh left before the police arrived and was arrested after being found on a bench at Warren Street station at about 10pm later that day. He admitted during his police interview that he had pushed the victim onto the track because "he had given him a dirty look" which made him angry, the CPS said. During the trial, Shorsh said he was also made angry by some women passing on a previous train who he believed were laughing at him. i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/07/31/12/87989717-13693071-image-a-3_1722425841229.jpg
The postman narrowly missed touching the live rail on the southbound Victoria Line
i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/07/31/12/87989723-13693071-image-a-4_1722425845067.jpg
Mr Potoczek was helped back up to the platform by a kind passenger as Shorsh watched
Addressing Shorsh, Mr Justice Kelleher said: "It is no exaggeration to say that this was an extremely dangerous criminal act that would strike fear into every traveller on the Underground. It follows a pattern of previous violent acts towards anyone who challenged you". Shorsh was first identified in the UK in 2018, having entered illegally, the judge added. Shorsh had told a psychiatrist that he went to school in Kurdistan and worked in a shop before leaving his country because of a falling out with his father. The Kurdish migrant said he lost his identity documents after being refused asylum in Germany and then France, before travelling on to the UK. He was initially housed in Yorkshire, but moved to London in late 2018. Within months of his arrival in the UK, Shorsh committed a racially aggravated offence of common assault and received a prison sentence of 12 weeks, Mr Justice Kelleher said. Once in London, between 2019 and 2023 he committed a further five offences of assault or battery, an offence of threatening a person in public with a bike chain, and three offences of outraging public decency. Mr Justice Kelleher said most of the assaults were committed "towards officers attempting to move him along from railway stations". The last offence, committed in November 2023, was an unprovoked attack on a female rail passenger, in which Shorsh "struck her to the back of the head". During this period, Shorsh served six separate short prison sentences, Mr Justice Kelleher said. Before jailing him for life with a minimum term of eight years and 49 days, the judge said Shorsh posed a "high risk of serious physical harm to members of the public". Maxine Jarrousse-Jones, a senior crown prosecutor at the CPS, said: "Brwa Shorsh attempted to kill the victim by deliberately and forcefully pushing him into the path of an approaching train. He intended to harm the victim and it is impossible to imagine anything that could ever justify pushing anyone in front of a train like that. "If not for the victim's quick-thinking, the courage of the other passenger who came to his rescue and the speed at which the train driver brought the train to a halt, Shorsh's actions could have cost the victim his life. Commuters should be able to travel freely without fear of violence or harm and I hope this sentencing is a reminder that such acts will not be tolerated and will be prosecuted as fully as the law allows."
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 11, 2024 10:37:04 GMT
A Kurdish migrant has been given life after pushing a man on a tube line. Luckily the victim survived. In the scenario you wanted to consider this in financially terms, I suppose it'll cost the British tax payer loads of dosh to keep the nutter in prison. What a waste of money? This individual is a homeless failed asylum seeker. He already had 12 convictions for 21 offences including assault, anti-social behaviour and outraging public decency. You can now add attempted murder to that list. So now he has a warm cell, comfortable bed, 3 square meals a day, free healthcare, free dental treatment. He was sentenced to life to serve a minimum of "8" years. (Hardly life is it) all to be funded by the tax payer. Why is the UK so soft? He should have been deported after his first offence.Unfortunately the Government at the time were shouting a lot about deporting people but not actually doing anything about it. |
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Post by baselswh on Oct 11, 2024 11:05:54 GMT
This individual is a homeless failed asylum seeker. He already had 12 convictions for 21 offences including assault, anti-social behaviour and outraging public decency. You can now add attempted murder to that list. So now he has a warm cell, comfortable bed, 3 square meals a day, free healthcare, free dental treatment. He was sentenced to life to serve a minimum of "8" years. (Hardly life is it) all to be funded by the tax payer. Why is the UK so soft? He should have been deported after his first offence.Unfortunately the Government at the time were shouting a lot about deporting people but not actually doing anything about it. Agreed Chesh,the Conservative Government was useless. Over 100 days of Labour and my money ison them being even worse. Vote Reform. 🇬🇧 |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 11, 2024 11:09:44 GMT
Unfortunately the Government at the time were shouting a lot about deporting people but not actually doing anything about it. Agreed Chesh,the Conservative Government was useless. Over 100 days of Labour and my money ison them being even worse. Vote Reform. 🇬🇧 Not so far Bas, they have, I understand, already deported 7,000 failed asylum seekers. Long way to go to repair the damage though. |
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Post by baselswh on Oct 11, 2024 11:13:38 GMT
Agreed Chesh,the Conservative Government was useless. Over 100 days of Labour and my money ison them being even worse. Vote Reform. 🇬🇧 Not so far Bas, they have, I understand, already deported 7,000 failed asylum seekers. Long way to go to repair the damage though. Not so easy to find the figures it seems Chesh,what are you going by please? |
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Post by baselswh on Oct 11, 2024 11:24:37 GMT
Apparently Sweden have begun mass deportations of Iraqis.
Until Islam reforms ( 12th of never ),then off you go!In this case back to Iraq.
🍻
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 11, 2024 11:32:33 GMT
Agreed Chesh,the Conservative Government was useless. Over 100 days of Labour and my money ison them being even worse. Vote Reform. 🇬🇧 Not so far Bas, they have, I understand, already deported 7,000 failed asylum seekers. Long way to go to repair the damage though. The official government figures on 'returns'. These figures are up to March 2024. The grand total was 66,418. "2.1 Enforced returns In the year ending March 2024 there were 7,016 enforced returns, an increase of 70% on the previous year (4,127). 2.2 Voluntary returns Voluntary returns increased by 65% in the year ending March 2024 compared to the previous year. In the year ending March 2024 there were 21,171 voluntary returns. 2.3 Port returns There were 23,957 passengers who were refused entry at port and subsequently departed (‘port returns’) in the year ending March 2024, similar to last year. 2.4 Returns of foreign national offenders (FNOs) There were 4,150 FNO returns made in the year ending March 2024, an increase of one-third (34%) compared to the previous year. 2.5 Asylum-related returns Asylum-related returns relate to cases where there has been an asylum claim or further submission at some stage prior to the return. This will include asylum seekers whose asylum claims have been withdrawn, refused and who have exhausted any rights of appeal, those returned under third-country provisions, as well as those granted asylum/protection but removed for other reasons (such as criminality). In the year ending March 2024, there were 6,956 asylum-related returns, more than double from the year ending March 2023 (3,476). 2.6 Small boat returns Between 2018 and March 2024, there have been 3,168 returns of people who arrived by small boat, or 3% of all small boat arrivals during this time." Official Government statistics |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 11, 2024 11:46:42 GMT
Not so far Bas, they have, I understand, already deported 7,000 failed asylum seekers. Long way to go to repair the damage though. The official government figures on 'returns'. These figures are up to March 2024. The grand total was 66,418. "2.1 Enforced returns In the year ending March 2024 there were 7,016 enforced returns, an increase of 70% on the previous year (4,127). 2.2 Voluntary returns Voluntary returns increased by 65% in the year ending March 2024 compared to the previous year. In the year ending March 2024 there were 21,171 voluntary returns. 2.3 Port returns There were 23,957 passengers who were refused entry at port and subsequently departed (‘port returns’) in the year ending March 2024, similar to last year. 2.4 Returns of foreign national offenders (FNOs) There were 4,150 FNO returns made in the year ending March 2024, an increase of one-third (34%) compared to the previous year. 2.5 Asylum-related returns Asylum-related returns relate to cases where there has been an asylum claim or further submission at some stage prior to the return. This will include asylum seekers whose asylum claims have been withdrawn, refused and who have exhausted any rights of appeal, those returned under third-country provisions, as well as those granted asylum/protection but removed for other reasons (such as criminality). In the year ending March 2024, there were 6,956 asylum-related returns, more than double from the year ending March 2023 (3,476). 2.6 Small boat returns Between 2018 and March 2024, there have been 3,168 returns of people who arrived by small boat, or 3% of all small boat arrivals during this time." Official Government statisticsThanks Nobby, appreciate that's under the previous Gov. Will try to find article. Also found this from August - Yvette Cooper is looking to turbocharge deportations by making 14,500 returns by the end of the year, it has been revealed in this weekend’s Sunday Times.
More than 200 failed asylum seekers were flown to Brazil this month in what marks the largest single British deportation on record.
It was one of nine charter flights since Labour took power seven weeks ago that have returned people with no right to be in the UK to their home countries.
Following years of bluff and bluster surrounding the controversial Rwanda scheme, Labour has looked to cement returns agreements using up mostly existing resources.
The charter flights booked for Rwanda have not been cancelled but redirected, for example.
The aircraft that Rishi Sunak had ordered for the first set of Rwanda deportations on July 24 sent 46 foreign criminals and immigration offenders back to Vietnam and East Timor.
Cooper, meanwhile, has reassigned 300 Home Office caseworkers from the Rwanda scheme to process the returns of failed asylum seekers.www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/labour-to-turbocharge-deportations-by-making-14500-returns-by-the-end-of-the-year-381659/ |
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Post by baldrick on Oct 15, 2024 6:48:47 GMT
Some of this feels eerily familiar. "Trotta is bespectacled, genial, and unafraid of controversial views. When the Southport stabbings happened on 29 July, he posted false information to the messaging app Telegram that they were carried out by an immigrant who had arrived on a small boat and gave the false name Ali Al Shakati. Our investigation shows that his post was one of the most influential of any of those making similar misleading claims on Telegram. Trotta shrugs it off when I point out that this was entirely false. "Who doesn’t make mistakes? But whatever happened, he is still a migrant, even if he was born in Wales." " news.sky.com/story/riots-and-the-far-right-the-global-network-behind-the-violence-13232023 |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 15, 2024 10:45:07 GMT
The lesson is that propaganda works. It works at many levels and is very powerful.
And of course far more sophisticated than in the 1930s onwards and as can be seen works very fast through social media these days. Later corrections to the false information go unheeded.
From the constant low level churning out of false headlines, when if the articles are read [not often] actually show how false the headline is, to people like Andrew Tate who are worshipped by insecure young men, to people who work to spread misinformation for their own ends and people who buy social media platforms to spread their own message and agenda.
History shows it works and is growing even more prevalent today.
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ltdgas
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,093
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Post by ltdgas on Oct 20, 2024 12:26:35 GMT
Bulgarian man conned British taxpayers out of £2.2 MILLION in major benefits scam
And they keep telling us immigration is a benefit to this country 🙄🙄
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ltdgas
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,093
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Post by ltdgas on Oct 21, 2024 16:00:14 GMT
According to the telegraph (Nick Timothy piece) the EU is also waking up to immigration overload and various countries are looking at using exporting the problem too, claiming both Denmark and Germany are considering the Rwanda plan. :
"The Netherlands is looking to strike an agreement with Uganda, in which rejected asylum seekers will be sent to Africa if they cannot be returned to their home country. Italy has an agreement that should allow it to send migrants for detention and processing in Albania. And politicians from countries including Denmark and Germany have proposed taking up Britain’s now-abandoned policy to send illegal immigrants to Rwanda. Even the Commission has indicated its interest in the principle of processing asylum claims offshore".
Gradual acceptance that the ECHR needs changing/cancelling as it is no longer fit for purpose, apparently.
😂😂😂😂
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