eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 17, 2024 9:18:54 GMT
To be fair I think all parties recognise your issues, which also over-lap rather neatly with mine. In fact Reform appear to be more aligned in their criticism of the status quo than Con/Lab. As per my original post "at least it wasn't our fault"!
I don't think you'd find too much trouble demonstrating peacefully on the streets. Anti-Govt mobs are treated with kid gloves. You're more likely to find a copper dancing the macarena with protestors than cracking skulls. Police have lost control of the streets (see your point 4).
One of my best mates is an ex-Met policeman and wouldn't go back if you paid him a Kings ransome. The 'power' is with criminals and their lawyers.
As it stands Reform might win Clacton and possibly half a dozen seats in the impoverished east of England.
I'll dig out in more detail what Reform actually stand for - at the moment for me it's a spoiled ballot paper or a vote for them.
If you could do some digging on what the Labour Party are committed to deliver (fully costed please), that would be great. "Vote for us - not only are we not the Tory Party, we're rid of Corbyn and his acolytes too!"
I'm waiting for the Labour victory. Junior doctors, teachers, nurses, rail workers, TFL workers etc etc all celebrating like they've won the lottery - only to be told by SKS that THERE IS NO MONEY. And there actually - is NO VISION.
Sadly oldie - I think we can agree. We're doomed Captain Mainwaring. Doomed!
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 17, 2024 10:33:49 GMT
Reform Policy (I'm ill, not working, have time on my hands). www.reformparty.uk/reformisessentialMy comment in italics, the rest of it an attempt at precis from the document. 1. Reform Border Control and Net Zero immigration. High quality, educated immigrants who can offer a net gain to our finances are always welcome. The huge mistake Con/Labour have made is allowing huge numbers of unskilled immigration to plug holes in shortfalls in areas like social care. They are allowed to bring over their families. This results in more pressure on housing, education and health care. It is a net deficit to our finances. 672,000 net immigration in 2023 FFS! If push comes to shove - I'd rather have zero than 672,000.2. Reform our economy. Emphasis on growth. Release 6mil from paying Income Tax, 1.2mil businesses from paying Income Tax. Scrap VAT on energy bills and environmental levies (£260 per household). £85bill - Costed. An Emergency Recovery Package (debatable how the numbers stack up).3. Reform the Public Sector. Look for efficiencies. Zero waiting lists. Better education. Better Border control. 4. Reform Energy Strategy. Abandon carbon net zero. Nationalise 50% of utility companies and put 50% into the hands of Pension Funds. 5. Reform our Institutions. Change to the House of Lords, the Civil Service and the BBC. The two party state embeds the status quo. AMEN TO THAT.6. Freedom - Commitment to never Lockdown again. Now - I am sure you can drive a truck through some of the logisitics and financial integrity of the proposals.
BUT. What this sets out is radical change. And it offers hope.
A vote for any of the three established parties is a vote for the status quo and years more stagnation. IMHO.
The Brexit vote was largely a vote for 'change'. It didn't happen. 52% of the population need to decide where their vote goes at the end of the year. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 17, 2024 11:12:36 GMT
From my personal point of view I really don't give a damn about politicians doing deals with each other just to gain power. I do get two parties encouraging their supporters to vote tactically when the parties have broadly similar viewpoints, but other than that this sort of malarkey just smells. I would much prefer to understand what a party stands for, what their policies (if only in principle). So what is the vision, the policies of the Reform Party? Are they just a protest vote? What does Mr Farage have to offer other than a carefully constructed media presence with no real policy substance. Are the Tories now bankrupt in policy terms, a party driven to exhaustion by internal conflict which has led to really bad outcomes for the country. Will Labour actually come out with something substantive and measurable in policy terms, other than "at least we are not the Tories" or "we have dealt with the Corbyn era". Most of all I want a new government to admit that we cannot afford most of what we promise ourselves. To recognise that the over reliance on the finance sector (all of it in the round) has left us "holed" below the water line after the meltdown through fraud in 2008 and the disastrous austerity policies after 2010. As it stands, we are near broken. Our health service does meet our need and is unaffordable Our education system is fragmented and leaves whole swathes of the population poorly educated Our transport systems are creaking through lack of investment Our security apparatus is underfunded and poorly organised. That is from the police right through to the military. Our immigration policies are driven by outdated ideology and not need. The party that recognises this gets my vote, the people that stand up and tell the truth I will trust. That criteria disqualifies Farage, Reform, most of the Tory Party, the Lib Dems and a significant proportion of the Labour Party. As it stands I will most likely spoil my ballot paper for only the second time during my life. I have no other way of registering my discontent. I could go back to my youth and protest on the streets but these days, under Draconian laws introduced by the Tories, I would be arrested for talking too loudly. Such is the state we are in. "From my personal point of view I really don't give a damn about politicians doing deals with each other just to gain power. I do get two parties encouraging their supporters to vote tactically when the parties have broadly similar viewpoints, but other than that this sort of malarkey just smells." - It's been going on for a while. Before the last election the Libdems actually paid money to the Greens to 'encourage' them to step down in some constituencies. Our health service does meet our need and is unaffordable - As has been often said, it needs a complete reform with a mature discussion surrounding funding. It will never happen to "our NHS" though. Our education system is fragmented and leaves whole swathes of the population poorly educated - I'm not too sure about that. Our transport systems are creaking through lack of investment - We should really be looking at local government for this failing. Our security apparatus is underfunded and poorly organised. That is from the police right through to the military. - Totally agree. Our immigration policies are driven by outdated ideology and not need. - There is a difference between immigration and migration. The West are facing a huge migration problem at the moment. " under Draconian laws introduced by the Tories, I would be arrested for talking too loudly." - Funny, but I've seen lots of Palestinian supporters on the streets of Britain calling for "death to all Jews", yet I don't think I've seen any of them being arrested. Have a read of this Oldie - Some good ideas |
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Jan 17, 2024 11:28:57 GMT
I will vote Reform if there is a candidate,if theres not I wont bother voting.
Something needs to change,I think that all across Europe people can see that.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jan 17, 2024 11:57:40 GMT
I will vote Reform if there is a candidate,if theres not I wont bother voting. Something needs to change,I think that all across Europe people can see that. I would love it if you could articulate in what policy you will predicate your vote upon? |
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jan 17, 2024 12:00:41 GMT
From my personal point of view I really don't give a damn about politicians doing deals with each other just to gain power. I do get two parties encouraging their supporters to vote tactically when the parties have broadly similar viewpoints, but other than that this sort of malarkey just smells. I would much prefer to understand what a party stands for, what their policies (if only in principle). So what is the vision, the policies of the Reform Party? Are they just a protest vote? What does Mr Farage have to offer other than a carefully constructed media presence with no real policy substance. Are the Tories now bankrupt in policy terms, a party driven to exhaustion by internal conflict which has led to really bad outcomes for the country. Will Labour actually come out with something substantive and measurable in policy terms, other than "at least we are not the Tories" or "we have dealt with the Corbyn era". Most of all I want a new government to admit that we cannot afford most of what we promise ourselves. To recognise that the over reliance on the finance sector (all of it in the round) has left us "holed" below the water line after the meltdown through fraud in 2008 and the disastrous austerity policies after 2010. As it stands, we are near broken. Our health service does meet our need and is unaffordable Our education system is fragmented and leaves whole swathes of the population poorly educated Our transport systems are creaking through lack of investment Our security apparatus is underfunded and poorly organised. That is from the police right through to the military. Our immigration policies are driven by outdated ideology and not need. The party that recognises this gets my vote, the people that stand up and tell the truth I will trust. That criteria disqualifies Farage, Reform, most of the Tory Party, the Lib Dems and a significant proportion of the Labour Party. As it stands I will most likely spoil my ballot paper for only the second time during my life. I have no other way of registering my discontent. I could go back to my youth and protest on the streets but these days, under Draconian laws introduced by the Tories, I would be arrested for talking too loudly. Such is the state we are in. "From my personal point of view I really don't give a damn about politicians doing deals with each other just to gain power. I do get two parties encouraging their supporters to vote tactically when the parties have broadly similar viewpoints, but other than that this sort of malarkey just smells." - It's been going on for a while. Before the last election the Libdems actually paid money to the Greens to 'encourage' them to step down in some constituencies. Our health service does meet our need and is unaffordable - As has been often said, it needs a complete reform with a mature discussion surrounding funding. It will never happen to "our NHS" though. Our education system is fragmented and leaves whole swathes of the population poorly educated - I'm not too sure about that. Our transport systems are creaking through lack of investment - We should really be looking at local government for this failing. Our security apparatus is underfunded and poorly organised. That is from the police right through to the military. - Totally agree. Our immigration policies are driven by outdated ideology and not need. - There is a difference between immigration and migration. The West are facing a huge migration problem at the moment. " under Draconian laws introduced by the Tories, I would be arrested for talking too loudly." - Funny, but I've seen lots of Palestinian supporters on the streets of Britain calling for "death to all Jews", yet I don't think I've seen any of them being arrested. Have a read of this Oldie -Â Some good ideasMy security system on my phone blocked that document download stating it was not secure! Which made me laugh. Happy to read it, is there another route by which I could access it? |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 17, 2024 12:33:48 GMT
No idea how to download it. The link takes you to the right page.
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ltdgas
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Post by ltdgas on Jan 18, 2024 18:00:45 GMT
I’ll be voting reform , only party that is patriotic & will deal with mass migration
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 19, 2024 0:17:14 GMT
I’ll be voting reform , only party that is patriotic & will deal with mass migration Reform are actually more like the old Tory party than the current mob! In the last few years any 'Brexit' supporters have been hounded out of the government. Currently the government is full of Remainers! Just read the Reform message, and it's just what you would expect from a Tory government. The Rwanda Bill will never work in a million years. I'm no lawyer but even I can see that. Tax is the highest it's ever been. This current government are not Tory. I'm not sure what they are but they are sleepwalking to oblivion. They seem to think that last minute tax cuts will save the day for them, but as a life long Tory voter, and I may add that I grew up on a council estate, that I will never ever vote for this current shambles. I will vote Reform as the current Tory party are a disgrace, and the Labour Party offer nothing. The Tories offer nothing, nor do Labour. If either are in government we are in the s**te, so let's give someone else the chance to feck it up ! |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 19, 2024 9:16:55 GMT
An incredibly small sample admittedly. But 4 out of 4 'natural right-leaning' people on here are stating they would vote Reform (including me). Oldie - you ask - why? If you look at your/mine main points of contention - a lot of that is addressed in www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential. Like I said - you could drive a bus through some of the financial / logisitical solutions they offer. BUT. It offers radical change and appeals to the 52% who voted Leave in 2016 (2016 FFS! Nothing has changed!). Interestingly I watched a debate between Rees-Mogg, Farage and a Political Lecturer yesterday (you surely can't have missed it oldie) :-) Farage was goading JRM saying this was the greatest existential risk to the Tory Party in history. JMR said (I paraphrase) "no, no no - between 1846 and 1859 there were terrific problems that had to be overcome". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeeliteIf - and it's a big if... Reform get close to the Tories in the opinion polls, more people might see them as a genuine threat rather than a protest vote. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 19, 2024 11:12:56 GMT
An incredibly small sample admittedly. But 4 out of 4 'natural right-leaning' people on here are stating they would vote Reform (including me). Oldie - you ask - why? If you look at your/mine main points of contention - a lot of that is addressed in www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential. Like I said - you could drive a bus through some of the financial / logisitical solutions they offer. BUT. It offers radical change and appeals to the 52% who voted Leave in 2016 (2016 FFS! Nothing has changed!). Interestingly I watched a debate between Rees-Mogg, Farage and a Political Lecturer yesterday (you surely can't have missed it oldie ) :-) Farage was goading JRM saying this was the greatest existential risk to the Tory Party in history. JMR said (I paraphrase) "no, no no - between 1846 and 1859 there were terrific problems that had to be overcome". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeeliteIf - and it's a big if... Reform get close to the Tories in the opinion polls, more people might see them as a genuine threat rather than a protest vote. I think we may even see some Tory MP's defecting to Reform before the GE as they will realise that if they stay as they are they will lose their seats. They will hope that by switching to Reform they'll have a better chance of being re-elected. I still think Farage will return to lead Reform and they are just waiting to do that nearer the election because of the impact it will have. They're keeping their powder dry. |
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jan 19, 2024 11:14:55 GMT
An incredibly small sample admittedly. But 4 out of 4 'natural right-leaning' people on here are stating they would vote Reform (including me). Oldie - you ask - why? If you look at your/mine main points of contention - a lot of that is addressed in www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential. Like I said - you could drive a bus through some of the financial / logisitical solutions they offer. BUT. It offers radical change and appeals to the 52% who voted Leave in 2016 (2016 FFS! Nothing has changed!). Interestingly I watched a debate between Rees-Mogg, Farage and a Political Lecturer yesterday (you surely can't have missed it oldie) :-) Farage was goading JRM saying this was the greatest existential risk to the Tory Party in history. JMR said (I paraphrase) "no, no no - between 1846 and 1859 there were terrific problems that had to be overcome". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeeliteIf - and it's a big if... Reform get close to the Tories in the opinion polls, more people might see them as a genuine threat rather than a protest vote. Epping Good morning Given that I know a couple of people on here and they never struck me as raving lunatics, I had a quick look at the Reform website this early morning to try and understand what people claim they would be voting for. And of course it's more of the same old stuff and nonsense none of which adds up. I get that everyone is fed up with the same old same old, but as a protest vote everyone would be as well off voting for the Monster Raving Loony Party...at least they don't pretend to be serious. But in fairness and to give due space for debate on the Reform Agenda/Policies I will come back to this later today. I don't particularly want to but as nobody else is addressing specific Reform Policies, I will. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 19, 2024 12:00:20 GMT
An incredibly small sample admittedly. But 4 out of 4 'natural right-leaning' people on here are stating they would vote Reform (including me). Oldie - you ask - why? If you look at your/mine main points of contention - a lot of that is addressed in www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential. Like I said - you could drive a bus through some of the financial / logisitical solutions they offer. BUT. It offers radical change and appeals to the 52% who voted Leave in 2016 (2016 FFS! Nothing has changed!). Interestingly I watched a debate between Rees-Mogg, Farage and a Political Lecturer yesterday (you surely can't have missed it oldie ) :-) Farage was goading JRM saying this was the greatest existential risk to the Tory Party in history. JMR said (I paraphrase) "no, no no - between 1846 and 1859 there were terrific problems that had to be overcome". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeeliteIf - and it's a big if... Reform get close to the Tories in the opinion polls, more people might see them as a genuine threat rather than a protest vote. Epping Good morning Given that I know a couple of people on here and they never struck me as raving lunatics, I had a quick look at the Reform website this early morning to try and understand what people claim they would be voting for. And of course it's more of the same old stuff and nonsense none of which adds up. I get that everyone is fed up with the same old same old, but as a protest vote everyone would be as well off voting for the Monster Raving Loony Party...at least they don't pretend to be serious. But in fairness and to give due space for debate on the Reform Agenda/Policies I will come back to this later today. I don't particularly want to but as nobody else is addressing specific Reform Policies, I will. So, you are happy to vote for the same old, same old? |
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Jan 19, 2024 12:31:46 GMT
An incredibly small sample admittedly. But 4 out of 4 'natural right-leaning' people on here are stating they would vote Reform (including me). Oldie - you ask - why? If you look at your/mine main points of contention - a lot of that is addressed in www.reformparty.uk/reformisessential. Like I said - you could drive a bus through some of the financial / logisitical solutions they offer. BUT. It offers radical change and appeals to the 52% who voted Leave in 2016 (2016 FFS! Nothing has changed!). Interestingly I watched a debate between Rees-Mogg, Farage and a Political Lecturer yesterday (you surely can't have missed it oldie ) :-) Farage was goading JRM saying this was the greatest existential risk to the Tory Party in history. JMR said (I paraphrase) "no, no no - between 1846 and 1859 there were terrific problems that had to be overcome". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeeliteIf - and it's a big if... Reform get close to the Tories in the opinion polls, more people might see them as a genuine threat rather than a protest vote. I think we may even see some Tory MP's defecting to Reform before the GE as they will realise that if they stay as they are they will lose their seats. They will hope that by switching to Reform they'll have a better chance of being re-elected. I still think Farage will return to lead Reform and they are just waiting to do that nearer the election because of the impact it will have. They're keeping their powder dry. That would be a problem for me as Reform then become 'the Tory party with knobs on' if Boris Johnson joined Reform I definitely wouldnt vote for them. I remember when the SDP split from Labour to do something different,in the end they just became the Liberal party, I dont want that for Reform I want something very different from Lib/LabCon. |
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ltdgas
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Post by ltdgas on Mar 29, 2024 14:07:06 GMT
Labour urging the tories not to give nige a American ambassadors role 😂😂😂, it was only the other week labour said he was a irrelevance, now there bricking it he might team up with Donald 😂😂😂, oh I wish just to see the leftie meltdown 😂, go on rishi you’ll go up in my estimation if you give nige a ambassadors role .
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Apr 4, 2024 11:33:50 GMT
Liz Truss among Tory MPs at Nigel Farage's 60th birthday party on Wednesday...By Becky Morton, Political reporter.
i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/04/04/12/83230855-13271469-image-m-23_1712228555909.jpg
The Brexiteer, pictured with his girlfriend Laure Ferrari, hosted his 60th birthday bash at Boisdale's in Canary WharfFormer Prime Minister Liz Truss was among the guests at Nigel Farage's 60th birthday party in London on Wednesday. Fellow Conservative MP Dame Andrea Jenkyns also attended the event for Reform UK's honorary president. Meanwhile, there was a video message from former US President Donald Trump, who described Mr Farage as a "prophetic leader". The ex-UKIP leader helped to found Reform from the ashes of the Brexit Party. The right-wing party has pledged to stand candidates in every seat across England, Scotland and Wales at the next general election, in a challenge to the Tories. It is currently polling at around at around 12%. Mr Farage has so far refused to confirm whether he will play a role in the upcoming election, which is expected later this year. He is not expected to make another bid to become an MP after failing to get elected to the UK Parliament seven times, but could be given a campaigning role. i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/04/04/12/83230869-13271469-Ex_prime_minister_Liz_Truss_was_also_among_Mr_Farage_s_guests_at-m-29_1712228656846.jpgEx-prime minister Liz Truss was among Mr Farage's guests at the London partyMr Farage began his political journey as a Conservative but quit the party in the early 1990s over its then pro-European stance. He was warmly welcomed at the Tory Party's annual conference in Manchester last year, where he was seen dancing with former Conservative minister Priti Patel at a party. His appearance prompted speculation he could rejoin the party. However, he has insisted he is committed to backing Reform at the next election. i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/04/04/12/83232525-13271469-image-a-35_1712228882120.jpg
Earlier in the day, Mr Farage posted an 'out of office' message on Twitter/X as he shared pictures of a 60th birthday cake
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 5, 2024 8:50:39 GMT
Labour urging the tories not to give nige a American ambassadors role 😂😂😂, it was only the other week labour said he was a irrelevance, now there bricking it he might team up with Donald 😂😂😂, oh I wish just to see the leftie meltdown 😂, go on rishi you’ll go up in my estimation if you give nige a ambassadors role . This is part of my motivation for voting Reform. |
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Apr 6, 2024 9:52:09 GMT
From what I have read the British are not the only people sick of the traditional political parties and professional politicians,there seems to be a worldwide revulsion.
The BBC report the recent election in Russia as being a stitch up and tell us that we are lucky to have democracy here but the only difference seems to be that the Russians get no choice of leader where as we can choose between two people that we dont want....something has to change because people are fed up with the farce.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on May 14, 2024 8:09:46 GMT
We've never had two leaders going head to head for Prime Minister who are so boring, says Nigel Farage.i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article32706562.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200d/0_BESTPIX-National-Conservatism-Conference-In-Brussels.jpgSo a big speech this morning from Rishi Sunak, a long speech from Rishi Sunak. I thought, you know what, I'm going to sit down. I'm going to watch all of this. Whatever the content of the speech, and the riposte that we got from Keir Starmer, I have to say, in terms of delivery, after about 15 to 20 minutes, I was beginning to nod off. There was no energy, there was no spark, there was no fizz. Yet the arguments he was making were fundamentally important arguments. He's saying the world is a less safe place than it's been at any moment since the Cuban Missile Crisis, and that he is the right man to lead the country. Unsurprisingly, Sir Keir Starmer responded later on this afternoon. He said: "The first duty of any government, particularly an incoming Labour government, is national security, the security of the country and that would be my first priority. "Now the Prime Minister today has made a speech. I think it is seventh reset in 18 months. And I think that really shows you that the choice as we go into this election is now pretty clear." Well, I don't know in terms of style, I can't imagine, perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I'm being completely unfair. I can't imagine we've ever had two leaders going head to head for who's going to be the next prime minister, who are, frankly, so boring. I think we can predict a very, very low turnout. But back to the important question. Given the challenges we face both externally and internally, who is the right person to lead the country forward after the next election?
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oldie
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Post by oldie on May 14, 2024 22:08:18 GMT
We've never had two leaders going head to head for Prime Minister who are so boring, says Nigel Farage.i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article32706562.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200d/0_BESTPIX-National-Conservatism-Conference-In-Brussels.jpgSo a big speech this morning from Rishi Sunak, a long speech from Rishi Sunak. I thought, you know what, I'm going to sit down. I'm going to watch all of this. Whatever the content of the speech, and the riposte that we got from Keir Starmer, I have to say, in terms of delivery, after about 15 to 20 minutes, I was beginning to nod off. There was no energy, there was no spark, there was no fizz. Yet the arguments he was making were fundamentally important arguments. He's saying the world is a less safe place than it's been at any moment since the Cuban Missile Crisis, and that he is the right man to lead the country. Unsurprisingly, Sir Keir Starmer responded later on this afternoon. He said: "The first duty of any government, particularly an incoming Labour government, is national security, the security of the country and that would be my first priority. "Now the Prime Minister today has made a speech. I think it is seventh reset in 18 months. And I think that really shows you that the choice as we go into this election is now pretty clear." Well, I don't know in terms of style, I can't imagine, perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I'm being completely unfair. I can't imagine we've ever had two leaders going head to head for who's going to be the next prime minister, who are, frankly, so boring. I think we can predict a very, very low turnout. But back to the important question. Given the challenges we face both externally and internally, who is the right person to lead the country forward after the next election? Alternatively we could have people standing for Prime Minister who lie, who have no program that adds up but drinks pints and waves the flag. Great |
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