oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Post by oldie on Nov 14, 2023 13:53:18 GMT
Pretty sure you would consider going for a fistful of filthy lucre for a few weeks 'work'... Until one is put in that position I guess that is an unknown. If it was only equal to current net worth, then absolutely not. |
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ltdgas
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,093 
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Post by ltdgas on Dec 26, 2023 9:02:07 GMT
I’ve watched a few of his shows on gb news and he always seems to be prepared too listen too opposing views , unlike your normal lefty like James O’Brien , who when he’s loosing the argument sends the caller too the idiot corner or cuts them off
Don’t listen to him anymore , if I have lbc on it’s either nick / shelia , much more balanced than O’Brien’s arrogance, like a spoilt 2 yr old
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ltdgas
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,093
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Post by ltdgas on Jan 14, 2024 16:12:24 GMT
Carol vordaman joining lbc, Sunday show , dear me ,
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,601
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 15, 2024 10:43:33 GMT
Farage. Divides opinion. But undoubtedly an absolutely key figure in UK politics. If he throws his weight behind Reform then that would cripple the Tory Party even further. Rightly or wrongly he is seen by many as anti-establishment (debatable). There is undoubtedly an anti-Westminster feeling out there.
The established parties have all been complicit in the things that have brought this country to it's knees. A plague on all their houses for:
Lack of affordable housing.
A bloated, unaffordable and unsustainable higher education system (backed by all parties).
The response to Covid, and the financially crippling and bungled furlough scheme (backed by all parties).
The tens of billions to be spent on of HS2 - an utter, utter waste of money. Labour got the ball rolling, Tories & LibDems right royally fecked it up.
The bottomless pit that is the NHS. I respect NHS workers. They deserve more pay. But the NHS is totally broken and unsustainable.
Uncontrolled immigration (legal and illegal). Net 672k (well that's the ones we can count) in 2023. This is unsustainable.
And to cap it all - the national scandal of Post Office legal action against totally innocent people.
Civil Servants, Government (all parties) and Lawyers covering up the biggest travesty of justice in British legal history.
There is only one party out there that is not tainted by the above - Reform. Currently polling a solid 10%.
Farage gets behind them and that figure could double.
I'm not saying that is necessarily a 'good thing'. But that the established parties in this country face could face a big backlash. People are angry.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Post by oldie on Jan 15, 2024 13:22:32 GMT
Farage. Divides opinion. But undoubtedly an absolutely key figure in UK politics. If he throws his weight behind Reform then that would cripple the Tory Party even further. Rightly or wrongly he is seen by many as anti-establishment (debatable). There is undoubtedly an anti-Westminster feeling out there. The established parties have all been complicit in the things that have brought this country to it's knees. A plague on all their houses for: Lack of affordable housing. A bloated, unaffordable and unsustainable higher education system (backed by all parties). The response to Covid, and the financially crippling and bungled furlough scheme (backed by all parties). The tens of billions to be spent on of HS2 - an utter, utter waste of money. Labour got the ball rolling, Tories & LibDems right royally fecked it up. The bottomless pit that is the NHS. I respect NHS workers. They deserve more pay. But the NHS is totally broken and unsustainable. Uncontrolled immigration (legal and illegal). Net 672k (well that's the ones we can count) in 2023. This is unsustainable. And to cap it all - the national scandal of Post Office legal action against totally innocent people. Civil Servants, Government (all parties) and Lawyers covering up the biggest travesty of justice in British legal history. There is only one party out there that is not tainted by the above - Reform. Currently polling a solid 10%. Farage gets behind them and that figure could double. I'm not saying that is necessarily a 'good thing'. But that the established parties in this country face could face a big backlash. People are angry. Hard to disagree, in the main. But I don't see voting in an absolute Charlatan and an incompetent like Tice is the answer. That's the issue isn't it? People have not voted based upon facts and evidence. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 15, 2024 14:15:26 GMT
Farage. Divides opinion. But undoubtedly an absolutely key figure in UK politics. If he throws his weight behind Reform then that would cripple the Tory Party even further. Rightly or wrongly he is seen by many as anti-establishment (debatable). There is undoubtedly an anti-Westminster feeling out there. The established parties have all been complicit in the things that have brought this country to it's knees. A plague on all their houses for: Lack of affordable housing. A bloated, unaffordable and unsustainable higher education system (backed by all parties). The response to Covid, and the financially crippling and bungled furlough scheme (backed by all parties). The tens of billions to be spent on of HS2 - an utter, utter waste of money. Labour got the ball rolling, Tories & LibDems right royally fecked it up. The bottomless pit that is the NHS. I respect NHS workers. They deserve more pay. But the NHS is totally broken and unsustainable. Uncontrolled immigration (legal and illegal). Net 672k (well that's the ones we can count) in 2023. This is unsustainable. And to cap it all - the national scandal of Post Office legal action against totally innocent people. Civil Servants, Government (all parties) and Lawyers covering up the biggest travesty of justice in British legal history. There is only one party out there that is not tainted by the above - Reform. Currently polling a solid 10%. Farage gets behind them and that figure could double. I'm not saying that is necessarily a 'good thing'. But that the established parties in this country face could face a big backlash. People are angry. Hard to disagree, in the main. But I don't see voting in an absolute Charlatan and an incompetent like Tice is the answer. That's the issue isn't it? People have not voted based upon facts and evidence. Therein lies the rub Oldie. The facts and evidence show that neither the Tory or the Labour Party are fit to govern. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Post by oldie on Jan 15, 2024 14:42:46 GMT
Hard to disagree, in the main. But I don't see voting in an absolute Charlatan and an incompetent like Tice is the answer. That's the issue isn't it? People have not voted based upon facts and evidence. Therein lies the rub Oldie. The facts and evidence show that neither the Tory or the Labour Party are fit to govern. In the circumstance that no party or their representatives are fit or competent to govern, what should the electorate do, in your opinion? |
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Post by lostinspace on Jan 15, 2024 15:16:50 GMT
Therein lies the rub Oldie. The facts and evidence show that neither the Tory or the Labour Party are fit to govern. In the circumstance that no party or their representatives are fit or competent to govern, what should the electorate do, in your opinion? Flipant reply...crack their heads together and create a cross party government that will not divide the whole country.... it won't happen ...but until these politicians realise "their job" is to appease all and not a chosen few,no matter what colour you wear......i watched the Peterloo [Netflix] movie over the weekend, and that ..even allowing for the period it happened just shows the divide between "them and us" the very people "the scum as they were called" were the very people giving the "elite" their priveledged lifestyle ..... we mere mortals can but dream |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,544
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Post by trymer on Jan 15, 2024 16:05:17 GMT
In the circumstance that no party or their representatives are fit or competent to govern, what should the electorate do, in your opinion? Flipant reply...crack their heads together and create a cross party government that will not divide the whole country.... it won't happen ...but until these politicians realise "their job" is to appease all and not a chosen few,no matter what colour you wear......i watched the Peterloo [Netflix] movie over the weekend, and that ..even allowing for the period it happened just shows the divide between "them and us" the very people "the scum as they were called" were the very people giving the "elite" their priveledged lifestyle ..... we mere mortals can but dream Emily Thornberry and the champagne socialists see the British working class as a bunch of dinlos and their only interest in us is our votes to get them into parliament. Tories/Liberals/Labour should all be part of history like the Whigs. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,544
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Post by trymer on Jan 15, 2024 16:06:11 GMT
Hard to disagree, in the main. But I don't see voting in an absolute Charlatan and an incompetent like Tice is the answer. That's the issue isn't it? People have not voted based upon facts and evidence. Therein lies the rub Oldie. The facts and evidence show that neither the Tory or the Labour Party are fit to govern. So we need to try something different. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Post by oldie on Jan 15, 2024 20:12:36 GMT
Therein lies the rub Oldie. The facts and evidence show that neither the Tory or the Labour Party are fit to govern. So we need to try something different. You keep hinting..but never say it. So, such as? |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Post by oldie on Jan 15, 2024 20:23:31 GMT
In the circumstance that no party or their representatives are fit or competent to govern, what should the electorate do, in your opinion? Flipant reply...crack their heads together and create a cross party government that will not divide the whole country.... it won't happen ...but until these politicians realise "their job" is to appease all and not a chosen few,no matter what colour you wear......i watched the Peterloo [Netflix] movie over the weekend, and that ..even allowing for the period it happened just shows the divide between "them and us" the very people "the scum as they were called" were the very people giving the "elite" their priveledged lifestyle ..... we mere mortals can but dream Peterloo...one of my favourite films. That was a critical event in the history of our democratic development. I wonder, if that event happened today, would the government be passing laws to prevent demonstrations such as that occurring? Oh hang on, they have! I agree with your emotive response LiS, but it doesn't help. Then, as now, two much of our economy is controlled by so few. Until we recognise that and stop buying the propaganda that prevents efforts to address it then nothing will change. To triangulate back to Farage, which portion of the population do you think he represents? The majority or the minority? You know the answer, but still we have members of the majority calling for his election. It appears stupidity knows no bounds |
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Post by lostinspace on Jan 15, 2024 20:55:12 GMT
Flipant reply...crack their heads together and create a cross party government that will not divide the whole country.... it won't happen ...but until these politicians realise "their job" is to appease all and not a chosen few,no matter what colour you wear......i watched the Peterloo [Netflix] movie over the weekend, and that ..even allowing for the period it happened just shows the divide between "them and us" the very people "the scum as they were called" were the very people giving the "elite" their priveledged lifestyle ..... we mere mortals can but dream Peterloo...one of my favourite films. That was a critical event in the history of our democratic development. I wonder, if that event happened today, would the government be passing laws to prevent demonstrations such as that occurring? Oh hang on, they have! I agree with your emotive response LiS, but it doesn't help. Then, as now, two much of our economy is controlled by so few. Until we recognise that and stop buying the propaganda that prevents efforts to address it then nothing will change. To triangulate back to Farage, which portion of the population do you think he represents? The majority or the minority? You know the answer, but still we have members of the majority calling for his election. It appears stupidity knows no bounds Re Farage.. he can communicate well I give him that, as for representation.. I do think it's the majority of the minority, plenty like what he spouts, but could never " go with him" he will,for as long as he wants to, be someone at the front of news with his views but never really achieve too much where it matters, that's how I read him...and no "x" in the column from me..? |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Post by oldie on Jan 15, 2024 21:05:28 GMT
Peterloo...one of my favourite films. That was a critical event in the history of our democratic development. I wonder, if that event happened today, would the government be passing laws to prevent demonstrations such as that occurring? Oh hang on, they have! I agree with your emotive response LiS, but it doesn't help. Then, as now, two much of our economy is controlled by so few. Until we recognise that and stop buying the propaganda that prevents efforts to address it then nothing will change. To triangulate back to Farage, which portion of the population do you think he represents? The majority or the minority? You know the answer, but still we have members of the majority calling for his election. It appears stupidity knows no bounds Re Farage.. he can communicate well I give him that, as for representation.. I do think it's the majority of the minority, plenty like what he spouts, but could never " go with him" he will,for as long as he wants to, be someone at the front of news with his views but never really achieve too much where it matters, that's how I read him...and no "x" in the column from me..? My perspective of Farage is that he has no ambition to achieve anything of Merit. His purpose with his idiotic behaviour and ridiculous views is to maintain his position in the headlines in order to further his income aspirations. Nothing more. |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 16, 2024 5:50:42 GMT
So we need to try something different. You keep hinting..but never say it. So, such as? I said earlier, wherever you find a political vacuum, someone or a party will fill it. People are fed-up and angry at the Tories & Labour as both have fecked up for so long. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Post by oldie on Jan 16, 2024 6:37:22 GMT
You keep hinting..but never say it. So, such as? I said earlier, wherever you find a political vacuum, someone or a party will fill it. People are fed-up and angry at the Tories & Labour as both have fecked up for so long. Perhaps So, as with Trymer, what's the alternative? |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 16, 2024 9:18:08 GMT
I said earlier, wherever you find a political vacuum, someone or a party will fill it. People are fed-up and angry at the Tories & Labour as both have fecked up for so long. Perhaps So, as with Trymer, what's the alternative? No idea. I'm no fan of Proportional Representation. Look at places like Germany where the ruling party (SDP) only received 26% of the vote share. In other words, 74% didn't vote for them. This means a coalition government, where the policies of all the various factions get watered down resulting in a government that doesn't really get anything done. Just look at the mess Germany is in at the moment. However, as I mentioned earlier, when the traditional parties feck-up too often it creates a vacuum, and in Germany right now the AfD are making huge gains across the country because people are fed-up with the traditional parties. FPTP obviously has flaws as it restricts new parties from gaining any influence. My point is that you cannot blame people for looking elsewhere when they feel politically neglected. In fact it is the right thing to do. Unfortunately, the alternative to the traditional parties is not always ideal. |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,601
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 16, 2024 10:58:42 GMT
I said earlier, wherever you find a political vacuum, someone or a party will fill it. People are fed-up and angry at the Tories & Labour as both have fecked up for so long. Perhaps So, as with Trymer, what's the alternative? Pleased my rant received a relatively warm welcome from all 'sides'. What is the alternative? I honestly think that Reform will pick up a lot of the protest vote. So in Epping Forest, do I vote for Eleanor Laing Cons. (Dep. Speaker, embroiled in the mortgage flipping scandal and supporter of the totally discredited and some would say corrupt Tory District Council)? Nope, a protest vote to Reform is more likely. Where else can I go? Either that or take the French route to revolution. Off with their heads! Here's a recap of the 2019 European Elections: Brexit 31% LibDem 20% Labour 14% Greens 12% Conservatives 9% One of the reasons that Brexit polled so strongly has not gone away. Uncontrolled immigration is still a very big issue. Both major parties talk about 'being tough' on immigration, but neither has a creditable solution. A future Labour majority Government is pretty much nailed on @2-7. The size of that majority will depend largely on what Reform manage to do. If Reform poll around 20% (I think they will) then that could leave the Conservatives with less than 50 seats. If things stay roughly 'as is' then the Conservatives will still struggle to get even 100 seats. Odds on Conservatives gaining less than 100 seats is 7-1. That looks very attractive. Absolute best case scenario - I still can't see Conservatives with over 225 seats (Lab majority around 60-65). Have some fun with this: www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html |
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Post by Nobbygas on Jan 16, 2024 11:38:22 GMT
Perhaps So, as with Trymer, what's the alternative? Pleased my rant received a relatively warm welcome from all 'sides'. What is the alternative? I honestly think that Reform will pick up a lot of the protest vote. So in Epping Forest, do I vote for Eleanor Laing Cons. (Dep. Speaker, embroiled in the mortgage flipping scandal and supporter of the totally discredited and some would say corrupt Tory District Council)? Nope, a protest vote to Reform is more likely. Where else can I go? Either that or take the French route to revolution. Off with their heads! Here's a recap of the 2019 European Elections: Brexit 31% LibDem 20% Labour 14% Greens 12% Conservatives 9% One of the reasons that Brexit polled so strongly has not gone away. Uncontrolled immigration is still a very big issue. Both major parties talk about 'being tough' on immigration, but neither has a creditable solution. A future Labour majority Government is pretty much nailed on @2-7. The size of that majority will depend largely on what Reform manage to do. If Reform poll around 20% (I think they will) then that could leave the Conservatives with less than 50 seats. If things stay roughly 'as is' then the Conservatives will still struggle to get even 100 seats. Odds on Conservatives gaining less than 100 seats is 7-1. That looks very attractive. Absolute best case scenario - I still can't see Conservatives with over 225 seats (Lab majority around 60-65). Have some fun with this: www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.htmlIf you look at the last couple of by-elections. Labour won because of the Reform vote. If there were no Reform Party, the Tories would have won them. At the last GE I believe a deal was struck between the Tories and the Brexit Party (were they called Brexit Party then?). The Brexit Party stood down in a number of constituencies at the request of the Tories with the understanding that at some future by-elections the Tories will not field a candidate. After winning an 80 seat majority, the Tories backed down from the agreement. The Reform Party have not forgotten this. Already there are calls from some Tories for the Reform Party to stand down in some areas. Reform are having none of it, so the Tories have once again shot themselves in the foot. Reform are in this for the long term. They'd probably be happy to get between 10 and 20 seats. It will give them a base for the next GE. I also think Farage will come back to the Reform Party and this will give them a big boost although this won't happen until a GE is announced. I also think Reform will hit the Libdems share of the vote. In my opinion I think the Tories will get between 50 and 100 seats. They are heading for what is in effect, a wipeout. This also means we are looking at a two-term Labour Government. God help us. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,531
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Post by oldie on Jan 16, 2024 12:20:05 GMT
From my personal point of view I really don't give a damn about politicians doing deals with each other just to gain power.
I do get two parties encouraging their supporters to vote tactically when the parties have broadly similar viewpoints, but other than that this sort of malarkey just smells.
I would much prefer to understand what a party stands for, what their policies (if only in principle).
So what is the vision, the policies of the Reform Party?
Are they just a protest vote?
What does Mr Farage have to offer other than a carefully constructed media presence with no real policy substance.
Are the Tories now bankrupt in policy terms, a party driven to exhaustion by internal conflict which has led to really bad outcomes for the country.
Will Labour actually come out with something substantive and measurable in policy terms, other than "at least we are not the Tories" or "we have dealt with the Corbyn era".
Most of all I want a new government to admit that we cannot afford most of what we promise ourselves. To recognise that the over reliance on the finance sector (all of it in the round) has left us "holed" below the water line after the meltdown through fraud in 2008 and the disastrous austerity policies after 2010.
As it stands, we are near broken.
Our health service does meet our need and is unaffordable
Our education system is fragmented and leaves whole swathes of the population poorly educated
Our transport systems are creaking through lack of investment
Our security apparatus is underfunded and poorly organised. That is from the police right through to the military.
Our immigration policies are driven by outdated ideology and not need.
The party that recognises this gets my vote, the people that stand up and tell the truth I will trust.
That criteria disqualifies Farage, Reform, most of the Tory Party, the Lib Dems and a significant proportion of the Labour Party.
As it stands I will most likely spoil my ballot paper for only the second time during my life. I have no other way of registering my discontent. I could go back to my youth and protest on the streets but these days, under Draconian laws introduced by the Tories, I would be arrested for talking too loudly.
Such is the state we are in.
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