Cheshiregas
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 12, 2023 21:52:17 GMT
What makes me laugh is the complete inability for Trymer to post up a link so we can verify his "story". It was in the Sun apparently Oldie. However on another note, Trymer may be right about the Tories doing well next year, but not by winning votes. A cross party committee including Tories has confirmed that the changes to voting ID requirements resulted in people being turned away from voting as reported in May. They stated that it led to racial and disability discrimination including people who were immunosuppressant who had to wear face masks when going to vote but couldn't show their faces for fear of contracting illness. No leeway given. Up to 14,000 people were turned away for varying reasons. The report indicates that if projected out to a general election this would impact around 26 seats. I wonder who would benefit..... The biggest surprise of course earlier in the year was Rees Smugg admitting that it amounted to gerrymandering. His words. Johnson said when PM he wanted to control the Electoral Commission. Looks like he may get his way.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,351
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Post by oldie on Sept 12, 2023 21:54:57 GMT
What makes me laugh is the complete inability for Trymer to post up a link so we can verify his "story". It was in the Sun apparently Oldie. However on another note, Trymer may be right about the Tories doing well next year, but not by winning votes. A cross party committee including Tories has confirmed that the changes to voting ID requirements resulted in people being turned away from voting as reported in May. They stated that it led to racial and disability discrimination including people who were immunosuppressant who had to wear face masks when going to vote but couldn't show their faces for fear of contracting illness. No leeway given. Up to 14,000 people were turned away for varying reasons. The report indicates that if projected out to a general election this would impact around 26 seats. I wonder who would benefit..... The biggest surprise of course earlier in the year was Rees Smugg admitting that it amounted to gerrymandering. His words. Johnson said when PM he wanted to control the Electoral Commission. Looks like he may get his way. Trymer quotes the Sun 😂😂😂😂
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Post by Nobbygas on Sept 13, 2023 1:00:01 GMT
It was in the Sun apparently Oldie. However on another note, Trymer may be right about the Tories doing well next year, but not by winning votes. A cross party committee including Tories has confirmed that the changes to voting ID requirements resulted in people being turned away from voting as reported in May. They stated that it led to racial and disability discrimination including people who were immunosuppressant who had to wear face masks when going to vote but couldn't show their faces for fear of contracting illness. No leeway given. Up to 14,000 people were turned away for varying reasons. The report indicates that if projected out to a general election this would impact around 26 seats. I wonder who would benefit..... The biggest surprise of course earlier in the year was Rees Smugg admitting that it amounted to gerrymandering. His words. Johnson said when PM he wanted to control the Electoral Commission. Looks like he may get his way. Trymer quotes the Sun 😂😂😂😂 The story was carried by many of the MSM. It's a childish tactic to just mention 'The Sun' and then use that as a stick to attack someone personally rather than address the subject being discussed. A pretty poor effort from both of you. You are both better than that. The issue of course, is someone on benefits paying 100 quid for a pair of designer shoes for her daughter to wear to school when the normal school shoes would have been far cheaper.
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Post by Nobbygas on Sept 13, 2023 1:03:09 GMT
What makes me laugh is the complete inability for Trymer to post up a link so we can verify his "story". It was in the Sun apparently Oldie. However on another note, Trymer may be right about the Tories doing well next year, but not by winning votes. A cross party committee including Tories has confirmed that the changes to voting ID requirements resulted in people being turned away from voting as reported in May. They stated that it led to racial and disability discrimination including people who were immunosuppressant who had to wear face masks when going to vote but couldn't show their faces for fear of contracting illness. No leeway given. Up to 14,000 people were turned away for varying reasons. The report indicates that if projected out to a general election this would impact around 26 seats. I wonder who would benefit..... The biggest surprise of course earlier in the year was Rees Smugg admitting that it amounted to gerrymandering. His words. Johnson said when PM he wanted to control the Electoral Commission. Looks like he may get his way. Terry, in practically every country in the EU voter id is necessary to vote. Also, if someone is immunosuppressant, wouldn't it be easier, and healthier for them to vote by post?
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Post by Nobbygas on Sept 13, 2023 1:04:23 GMT
It was in the Sun apparently Oldie. However on another note, Trymer may be right about the Tories doing well next year, but not by winning votes. A cross party committee including Tories has confirmed that the changes to voting ID requirements resulted in people being turned away from voting as reported in May. They stated that it led to racial and disability discrimination including people who were immunosuppressant who had to wear face masks when going to vote but couldn't show their faces for fear of contracting illness. No leeway given. Up to 14,000 people were turned away for varying reasons. The report indicates that if projected out to a general election this would impact around 26 seats. I wonder who would benefit..... The biggest surprise of course earlier in the year was Rees Smugg admitting that it amounted to gerrymandering. His words. Johnson said when PM he wanted to control the Electoral Commission. Looks like he may get his way. Trymer quotes the Sun 😂😂😂😂 Oldie quotes Terry 😂😂😂😂😂
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,351
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Post by oldie on Sept 13, 2023 5:01:24 GMT
Trymer quotes the Sun 😂😂😂😂 The story was carried by many of the MSM. It's a childish tactic to just mention 'The Sun' and then use that as a stick to attack someone personally rather than address the subject being discussed. A pretty poor effort from both of you. You are both better than that. The issue of course, is someone on benefits paying 100 quid for a pair of designer shoes for her daughter to wear to school when the normal school shoes would have been far cheaper. Funny that, I didn't see it anywhere 🤔. Plus the price paid for a pair of shoes by any given individual is NOT the issue, that is just clickbait practiced by a certain section of the media. Those of a certain disposition seem to lap it up.
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Cheshiregas
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2023 7:45:51 GMT
Trymer quotes the Sun 😂😂😂😂 The story was carried by many of the MSM. It's a childish tactic to just mention 'The Sun' and then use that as a stick to attack someone personally rather than address the subject being discussed. A pretty poor effort from both of you. You are both better than that. The issue of course, is someone on benefits paying 100 quid for a pair of designer shoes for her daughter to wear to school when the normal school shoes would have been far cheaper. Why is it childish to mention the Sun! It was where I found it mentioned or do you think Trymer would be embarrassed by the source? Oldie asked, I responded. Did you also read that the shoes were a one off and that she buys everything else from Primark. No, it doesn't suit the agenda of attacking the poor. Trymer uses odd examples to try to prove that poverty is a myth when there are millions in poverty. Do you agree with Trymer about poverty being a myth? Of course there are people who rip off and play the system but it's the non dom billionaires who pay no tax and MPs with second jobs who domicile income in the Caymans [like Rees Mogg] that Trymer seems content with, whilst attacking people on the breadline. He should be attacking the wealthy that rip the country off for billions not a woman who buys shoes for her daughter.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,487
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Post by trymer on Sept 13, 2023 8:49:56 GMT
Trymer quotes the Sun 😂😂😂😂 The story was carried by many of the MSM. It's a childish tactic to just mention 'The Sun' and then use that as a stick to attack someone personally rather than address the subject being discussed. A pretty poor effort from both of you. You are both better than that. The issue of course, is someone on benefits paying 100 quid for a pair of designer shoes for her daughter to wear to school when the normal school shoes would have been far cheaper. I saw the story on BBC news,the school is in Gateshead and apparently the girl was treated "worse than an animal" ! I was going to say the poor girl but with £100 school shoes i dont think that calling her poor would be accurate. Something that occured to me was that maybe these £100 shoes were the cheapest option available locally ?
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,487
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Post by trymer on Sept 13, 2023 8:52:06 GMT
Trymer quotes the Sun 😂😂😂😂 You are both better than that. I strongly disagree with that statement !.....and they've proved it time and again which is why i ignore them.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,351
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Post by oldie on Sept 13, 2023 9:56:24 GMT
The story was carried by many of the MSM. It's a childish tactic to just mention 'The Sun' and then use that as a stick to attack someone personally rather than address the subject being discussed. A pretty poor effort from both of you. You are both better than that. The issue of course, is someone on benefits paying 100 quid for a pair of designer shoes for her daughter to wear to school when the normal school shoes would have been far cheaper. I saw the story on BBC news,the school is in Gateshead and apparently the girl was treated "worse than an animal" ! I was going to say the poor girl but with £100 school shoes i dont think that calling her poor would be accurate. Something that occured to me was that maybe these £100 shoes were the cheapest option available locally ? So, I found it on the BBC website as Trymer indicated. So his assertion was.... and I quote " noticed a story today about an unemployed woman who's daughter was sent home from her first day at comprehensive school for wearing footwear that didnt comply with the schools uniform rules. The shoes were £100 Vivienne Westwood ballerina type shoes that the woman her daughter from benefit money,dont the school realise that unemployed people cant afford shoes more expensive" This is what the BBC actually published www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66734942As Trymer appears not competent enough to post the link. Having read it, I see no mention of the mother in question employment status? The basis of Trymer's point being that she was unemployed and the article states no such thing. In addition the point of the article was on the way the school authorities reacted to a non compliant uniform issue,forcing the students ( the girl in question wasn't the only one) to sit on hard floors, which is Dickensian almost beyond belief. I note also the prescribed shoe ware is for "Brogue" shoes. I wear Brogues, they can be quite expensive. Perhaps Trymer, with his utilitarian attitude, has not progressed beyond wooden clogs and is offended by any hint of "style" and feels compelled to make up stories to justify his primordial reactions to life in the 21st century. Who knows....
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Cheshiregas
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2023 10:24:31 GMT
You are both better than that. I strongly disagree with that statement !.....and they've proved it time and again which is why i ignore them. Trymer doesn't like people to disagree with him, hence his failure to engage. He has no respect for free speech and those who oppose his view. He's in good company with Putin, Kim Jung, Lee Anderson and Boris Johnson.
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Cheshiregas
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2023 10:27:13 GMT
It was in the Sun apparently Oldie. However on another note, Trymer may be right about the Tories doing well next year, but not by winning votes. A cross party committee including Tories has confirmed that the changes to voting ID requirements resulted in people being turned away from voting as reported in May. They stated that it led to racial and disability discrimination including people who were immunosuppressant who had to wear face masks when going to vote but couldn't show their faces for fear of contracting illness. No leeway given. Up to 14,000 people were turned away for varying reasons. The report indicates that if projected out to a general election this would impact around 26 seats. I wonder who would benefit..... The biggest surprise of course earlier in the year was Rees Smugg admitting that it amounted to gerrymandering. His words. Johnson said when PM he wanted to control the Electoral Commission. Looks like he may get his way. Terry, in practically every country in the EU voter id is necessary to vote. Also, if someone is immunosuppressant, wouldn't it be easier, and healthier for them to vote by post? But why bring it in when the problem was miniscule. You know why Nobby, you aren't daft. And you would stop someone going to vote in person, which is a right? I thought you believed in and fought for freedom not suppression.
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Post by Nobbygas on Sept 13, 2023 11:54:38 GMT
Terry, in practically every country in the EU voter id is necessary to vote. Also, if someone is immunosuppressant, wouldn't it be easier, and healthier for them to vote by post? But why bring it in when the problem was miniscule. You know why Nobby, you aren't daft. And you would stop someone going to vote in person, which is a right? I thought you believed in and fought for freedom not suppression. Yes, I prefer people to vote in person. However, if as you suggested that someone with immunsupressant have problems doing this then it would be better for their own health to use a postal vote! Common sense? Was the problem miniscule though? It appears that in certain communities that their are voting irregularities in regards to postal votes and voting by proxy. Voting using id puts a stop to any of that, so surely that is in the best interests of democracy.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,165
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2023 12:01:51 GMT
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,487
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Post by trymer on Sept 13, 2023 12:20:07 GMT
Trymer quotes the Sun 😂😂😂😂 The story was carried by many of the MSM. It's a childish tactic to just mention 'The Sun' and then use that as a stick to attack someone personally rather than address the subject being discussed. A pretty poor effort from both of you. You are both better than that. The issue of course, is someone on benefits paying 100 quid for a pair of designer shoes for her daughter to wear to school when the normal school shoes would have been far cheaper. I had another look at the Vivienne Westwood shoes story and I have to hold my hands up and say that I have confused TWO cases of girls being pulled up for wearing totally inappropriate (and hugely expensive )Vivienne Westwood shoes to school . One case was the Gateshead one that i saw on the BBC news. The other is of an unemployed woman in South Yorkshire,appparently she receives £1,150 a week in benefits (can that be possible?) and is supposed to have said "why should I get a ****ing job?"... why indeed ?
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,351
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Post by oldie on Sept 13, 2023 12:46:04 GMT
The story was carried by many of the MSM. It's a childish tactic to just mention 'The Sun' and then use that as a stick to attack someone personally rather than address the subject being discussed. A pretty poor effort from both of you. You are both better than that. The issue of course, is someone on benefits paying 100 quid for a pair of designer shoes for her daughter to wear to school when the normal school shoes would have been far cheaper. I had another look at the Vivienne Westwood shoes story and I have to hold my hands up and say that I have confused TWO cases of girls being pulled up for wearing totally inappropriate (and hugely expensive )Vivienne Westwood shoes to school . One case was the Gateshead one that i saw on the BBC news. The other is of an unemployed woman in South Yorkshire,appparently she receives £1,150 a week in benefits (can that be possible?) and is supposed to have said "why should I get a ****ing job?"... why indeed ? So Having been caught with your pants down, you quote another "story" with no links or copy text so that we can have a look. Go on, just the once...
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Post by Nobbygas on Sept 13, 2023 12:55:45 GMT
That is the thing with fraud though. How much of it goes undetected? As I have already said, there ae certain communities where all the votes in one household get filled in by one person in the house. This type of fraud is impossible to detect. Voter id does away with this type of fraud in an instant. Let's look at another set of statistics:- "What do the figures show? Police in England and Wales recorded 67,125 rape offences in the year to December 2021 - the highest recorded annual figure to date. In 2020-21 there were just 1,557 prosecutions, compared with 2,102 in the previous 12 months. Over the past four years, rape prosecutions in England and Wales have fallen by 70%." The report doesn't say how many of the 1,557 prosecutions actually led to a conviction. So, successful prosecutions against the overall number of alleged offences are quite small, so is this also a non-issue? Or, looking at the statistics, are we winning the war against rape? We all know the answer to that don't we. The reality is that statistics do not really prove very much without context.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,351
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Post by oldie on Sept 13, 2023 13:06:40 GMT
That is the thing with fraud though. How much of it goes undetected? As I have already said, there ae certain communities where all the votes in one household get filled in by one person in the house. This type of fraud is impossible to detect. Voter id does away with this type of fraud in an instant. Let's look at another set of statistics:- "What do the figures show? Police in England and Wales recorded 67,125 rape offences in the year to December 2021 - the highest recorded annual figure to date. In 2020-21 there were just 1,557 prosecutions, compared with 2,102 in the previous 12 months. Over the past four years, rape prosecutions in England and Wales have fallen by 70%." The report doesn't say how many of the 1,557 prosecutions actually led to a conviction. So, successful prosecutions against the overall number of alleged offences are quite small, so is this also a non-issue? Or, looking at the statistics, are we winning the war against rape? We all know the answer to that don't we. The reality is that statistics do not really prove very much without context. I had to read that twice. So there were 67,125 recorded rape offences in the year to December 2021. But only 1,557 prosecutions for the same period. Those Stats absolutely do tell a story. There is problem with evidence gathering, the CPS determination of probable outcome if taken to court, or false accusations. Anyone of those deserves to be investigated, the stats tell us that is the case.
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Cheshiregas
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Joined: May 2014
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2023 13:07:23 GMT
So effectively, like Michael Gove, you say in effect that it is pointless producing statistics and listening to experts, as that doesn't bear out what you have been told. There is an issue because the Tory Government tell you there is one even though this is not born out anywhere and the move is criticised by MPs including Conservative ones and by the Electoral Commission and purely by coincidence the steps they have been taken work in their favour. Oh and even a former Gov Minister says it is gerrymandering. That is actually stretching credibility to the limit, I'm afraid.
I would suggest that rape convictions are not the best comparison. 67k rape complaints versus 595 electoral fraud complaints. Neither a very pleasant comparison nor a like for like comparison on numbers.
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Cheshiregas
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Joined: May 2014
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2023 13:14:01 GMT
I had another look at the Vivienne Westwood shoes story and I have to hold my hands up and say that I have confused TWO cases of girls being pulled up for wearing totally inappropriate (and hugely expensive )Vivienne Westwood shoes to school . One case was the Gateshead one that i saw on the BBC news. The other is of an unemployed woman in South Yorkshire,appparently she receives £1,150 a week in benefits (can that be possible?) and is supposed to have said "why should I get a ****ing job?"... why indeed ? So Having been caught with your pants down, you quote another "story" with no links or copy text so that we can have a look. Go on, just the once... With apologies to Nobby, as he got incensed last time but I can't find it elsewhere, a quick search shows it is in the Sun and a report of something a woman has posted on TikTok, so it must be true.....
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