Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 6:54:04 GMT
So what is happening - a dead duck or a few 'quacks' left yet! Pardon?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 8:46:23 GMT
so what doubts did you state on here that you doubted a fully funded uwe ? as for the owners aspirations i can only go on their original aims to get it delivered and move us forward I never believed that adequate funding was in place to build the UWE as originally planned, even with Sainsbury's. I had little doubt that the design for the shell and core, let alone the fit out, Yes the higgs version had no chance but under this board the landing lights were on and waiting to dot the Is. False hope is a killer . I would rather it straight
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 9:40:34 GMT
I never believed that adequate funding was in place to build the UWE as originally planned, even with Sainsbury's. I had little doubt that the design for the shell and core, let alone the fit out, Yes the higgs version had no chance but under this board the landing lights were on and waiting to dot the Is. False hope is a killer . I would rather it straight Agreed. This is looking like a complete cock up on the owners part. Reputational damage has already occured I would suggest. What worries me, if they pull the plug, I dont see where the club will go. Rather than front them aggresively isnt it best to support an orderly withdrawal? In the meantime, if they say "hold steady" such is our perilous position, I dont see what choice there is. Until a different approach to ownership is found I think we will always be in this position
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Dec 7, 2017 9:46:48 GMT
I will preface by saying this was in conversation with someone who stands round by me at the game on Saturday and who had some involvements with the UWE project when NH was in charge Basically to get it built the cost had to reduced to x price. (I donβt know if this is pre or post Sainsburyβs) but basically it would have been a stripped down version of what was planned That big fancy bar would have become an open concourse where you could drink. The corners would have not had seating and filled with advertising sheeting Certain standrads of lighting (Lumens) are required for Championship and above. This would have been reduced to suit us at a lower level. (This was a few hundred grand saving apparently) Certain spaces would be left unfilled (interior walls etc I guess underneath the stands) You get the drift I hate to say it, but our 'friends' on otib were touting the idea of a trimmed back UWE a long time ago and, amongst others I scoffed at the idea at the time. In my mind, it just supports the idea that the UWE stadium was not perhaps the best of ideas. Strange a stripped down UWE which could've been developed / improved later is a sign of how out of his depth NH was but a stripped down training facility, that hopefully can be developed further, is a sign of the Al Qs commitment. It's just like making things up.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 7, 2017 10:13:41 GMT
I hate to say it, but our 'friends' on otib were touting the idea of a trimmed back UWE a long time ago and, amongst others I scoffed at the idea at the time. In my mind, it just supports the idea that the UWE stadium was not perhaps the best of ideas. Strange a stripped down UWE which could've been developed / improved later is a sign of how out of his depth NH was but a stripped down training facility, that hopefully can be developed further, is a sign of the Al Qs commitment. It's just like making things up. I don't think a 'stripped' down training facility necessarily means a long term commitment, but at the same time, it doesn't reconcile with the 'don't want to spend money argument' or 'Hani wants out' argument
However a training ground of our own and UWE are two vastly different things. One is/was supposed to be a revenue generator to further the club . a stripped down stadium, surely leads to a potential scenario of it not generating sufficient money to benefit the club
last time I checked a training ground doesn't generate revenue and having our players in one place is surely a benefit if there is 1 pitch or 10
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Dec 7, 2017 10:43:26 GMT
Strange a stripped down UWE which could've been developed / improved later is a sign of how out of his depth NH was but a stripped down training facility, that hopefully can be developed further, is a sign of the Al Qs commitment. It's just like making things up. Β I don't think a 'stripped' down training facility necessarily means a long term commitment, but at the same time, it doesn't reconcile with the 'don't want to spend money argument' or 'Hani wants out' argument
However a training ground of our own and UWE are two vastly different things. One is/was supposed to be a revenue generator to further the club . a stripped down stadium, surely leads to a potential scenario of it not generating sufficient money to benefit the club
last time I checked a training ground doesn't generate revenue and having our players in one place is surely a benefit if there is 1 pitch or 10
Well the idea of a Category 2 Academy is to develop players to either sell at a profit or negate the need to buy players so in that way it does generate revenue. As to UWE plans the Britannia stadium got Stoke to the Premiership with empty corners which they are now filling in to increase attendances and revenue. As a start 21700 seats or 18000 would've made little difference at UWE without a glamour cup tie. Face it you'll support Wael and Co whatever I'm just pointing out both previous and current owners are presenting (possibly if you believe a bloke stood next to you) cut down plans we you draw completely to conclusions from based on who you feel more comfortable with.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 11:02:04 GMT
I don't think a 'stripped' down training facility necessarily means a long term commitment, but at the same time, it doesn't reconcile with the 'don't want to spend money argument' or 'Hani wants out' argument
However a training ground of our own and UWE are two vastly different things. One is/was supposed to be a revenue generator to further the club . a stripped down stadium, surely leads to a potential scenario of it not generating sufficient money to benefit the club
last time I checked a training ground doesn't generate revenue and having our players in one place is surely a benefit if there is 1 pitch or 10
Well the idea of a Category 2 Academy is to develop players to either sell at a profit or negate the need to buy players so in that way it does generate revenue. As to UWE plans the Britannia stadium got Stoke to the Premiership with empty corners which they are now filling in to increase attendances and revenue. As a start 21700 seats or 18000 would've made little difference at UWE without a glamour cup tie. Face it you'll support Wael and Co whatever I'm just pointing out both previous and current owners are presenting (possibly if you believe a bloke stood next to you) cut down plans we you draw completely to conclusions from based on who you feel more comfortable with. In reality both management processes look flawed. Best intentions and no resources coupled with bloody mindedness (Previous), Hubris and poor planning coupled with blind optimism (Current). Take yer pick, though neither are palatable.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 7, 2017 11:07:58 GMT
I don't think a 'stripped' down training facility necessarily means a long term commitment, but at the same time, it doesn't reconcile with the 'don't want to spend money argument' or 'Hani wants out' argument
However a training ground of our own and UWE are two vastly different things. One is/was supposed to be a revenue generator to further the club . a stripped down stadium, surely leads to a potential scenario of it not generating sufficient money to benefit the club
last time I checked a training ground doesn't generate revenue and having our players in one place is surely a benefit if there is 1 pitch or 10
Well the idea of a Category 2 Academy is to develop players to either sell at a profit or negate the need to buy players so in that way it does generate revenue. As to UWE plans the Britannia stadium got Stoke to the Premiership with empty corners which they are now filling in to increase attendances and revenue. As a start 21700 seats or 18000 would've made little difference at UWE without a glamour cup tie. Face it you'll support Wael and Co whatever I'm just pointing out both previous and current owners are presenting (possibly if you believe a bloke stood next to you) cut down plans we you draw completely to conclusions from based on who you feel more comfortable with. I won't support anyone whatever. I have said the Al-Qadi's have questions to ask.
last time I checked we cant have a Cat 2 academy until we at least have a training ground and I don't think you can achieve a CAt 2 academy if 1 team is playing at Almondsbury, 1 at Golden Hill, 1 at Imperial or wherever the f**k everyone trains currently
However I am trying to look a bit 'beyond all the end of days' scenario that some are prophesising as I have seen no facts or evidence to support it yet, just interpretations and assumptions and opinions
I never said I believed the bloke stood next to me about UWE and Higgs, and I prefaced my comments with where they came from. I have not presented them as gospel. Up to anyone else whether they take any stock in them
Not much different to all the ITKers giving us there version of what the future holds and what has happened regarding UWE etc is it
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Dec 7, 2017 12:32:13 GMT
Well the idea of a Category 2 Academy is to develop players to either sell at a profit or negate the need to buy players so in that way it does generate revenue. As to UWE plans the Britannia stadium got Stoke to the Premiership with empty corners which they are now filling in to increase attendances and revenue. As a start 21700 seats or 18000 would've made little difference at UWE without a glamour cup tie. Face it you'll support Wael and Co whatever I'm just pointing out both previous and current owners are presenting (possibly if you believe a bloke stood next to you) cut down plans we you draw completely to conclusions from based on who you feel more comfortable with. In reality both management processes look flawed. Best intentions and no resources coupled with bloody mindedness (Previous), Hubris and poor planning coupled with blind optimism (Current). Take yer pick, though neither are palatable.Β Couldn't agree more with you.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 7, 2017 13:00:39 GMT
... The "muddling though period" (4 months of it now, getting kind of tired of it) is painful to watch and insults our intelligence.Damn right - we are still teetering on the abyss. At least you have a very decent cider house to go to to drown your sorrows. I only get Aspalls in Essex. Did anybody die because of this "Muddling Period" We just have to wait and see, because as fans we have no control over the their next move I can confirm that as far as I am aware, no-one has actually died as a direct result of the "muddling through period". Although statistically the longer it goes on - the more will die of old age.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 13:39:02 GMT
Did anybody die because of this "Muddling Period" We just have to wait and see, because as fans we have no control over the their next move I can confirm that as far as I am aware, no-one has actually died as a direct result of the "muddling through period". Although statistically the longer it goes on - the more will die of old age.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Dec 7, 2017 13:57:50 GMT
So how do we get hold of the truth in terms of their plans ref new Stadium.
Sit and wait. Ask nicely. Ask less nicely. Confront.
I am not cheered by news that BCFC intend to build new indoor sports arena at AG and new training ground at Ashton Vale
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 15:39:13 GMT
So how do we get hold of the truth in terms of their plans ref new Stadium. Sit and wait. Ask nicely. Ask less nicely. Confront. I am not cheered by news that BCFC intend to build new indoor sports arena at AG and new training ground at Ashton Vale Vaughan Do the risk analysis. Confront and force their hand. Outcome..they liquidate to monetise the asset and get their money back? Sit back and face the reality. Outcome..they muddle through and fans ponder t'was ever thus, powerless
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Dec 7, 2017 17:27:33 GMT
Thanks Les
That sound advice has really cheered me up π
π
Is there any hope of a new Stadium in my life-time? π
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 7, 2017 17:58:41 GMT
If you're talking cryogenically, possibly!
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 7, 2017 18:25:10 GMT
Thanks Les That sound advice has really cheered me up π
π
Is there any hope of a new Stadium in my life-time? π Rather depends on your life expectancy. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow and miss the glorious opening of our new stadium in 20**.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 18:38:25 GMT
Thanks Les That sound advice has really cheered me up π
π
Is there any hope of a new Stadium in my life-time? π I don't think so. Not without a vision that goes beyond capital investment and includes working capital. That's a long term view which only true stakeholders could envision. All 10,000 of us. Oh hang on....
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Dec 7, 2017 19:02:55 GMT
So 10,000 supporters raising a Β£100 a year to pay back a 25 year mortgage.
Living the dream. π
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Post by droitwichgas on Dec 7, 2017 19:33:14 GMT
May take on all this is that NH convinces Wael/SH the plans for the UWE were foolproof and having been turned down by Gillingham Wael jumped in w/o doing proper due diligence, he then convinced Hani & co the opportunity was one to good to turn down and they took him on his word, Wael then plough ahead getting Currah on board and carrying out the feasibility study. At some point Hani got wind the deal wasn't as good as Wael thought, perhaps once the feasibility study landed on his desk?, promptly sacked Currah and took over the talks with UWE direct, the outcome we of course know.
The problem is now the ALQ's have a Β£12m debt with no obvious escape route, are they bidding their time until January and hoping then to sell players & DC to cut some of their losses before selling up? If so, why's BB been offered a new contract/talking as though he might stay, surely he's not been told to lie? Plus why was DC with Wael on Tuesday night?
If the ALQ's plan on staying for the long term then one other thing I can't understand is why won't the training ground be in use for 18 months when we already have pp, why can't work start now for this summer, plus why waste money on the Mem if stands are doing to be demolished in a year or two? Although if they do plan jumping ship why mention moving the club shop in the first place. Perhaps Hani is prepared to just fund the present debts but no more, which I guess is at least something. Meanwhile Wael's praying he can sell Locks or Harrison for Β£m's in order to convince Hani football can be profitable!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 20:01:49 GMT
So 10,000 supporters raising a Β£100 a year to pay back a 25 year mortgage. Living the dream. π
Something like that. But you are right, our (So called) supporters scream for others to put their money in, but find excuses not to do so themselves? Boring innit
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