Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 15:00:14 GMT
With all due respect. No-one (well certainly not me) is "baying for a high net worth individual" to fund our aspirations. If you want puerile comments - I believe they are available on other Forums. All I am asking for is that the owners be honest with the fans - and give a realistic, sustainable vision of the future. We've been spun a crock of sh*t since the collapse of UWE. Some people just don't want to believe that the Al-Qadi's aren't the fairy godmother we once thought they were. If Wael just fronted up and told us the truth - you know what - most Gas would accept it. Even it was very unpalatable. Disappointment I can deal with. Being treated like a mug, I cannot. That is so spot on. We are and have proven ourselves to be a very forgiving bunch and I am still stunned we get the crowds we do. If only WAQ could persuade dead pan Hani of the potential then maybe he would change tack but I fear he has very firmly made his decision. January is going to be a huge pivotal point as I called my friend up, after reading padstow talk of 4 leaving and I had that basically repeated. It woukd seem a few are certainly looking elsewhere. My belief is DC is one of them but hope I am wrong. How are we "forgiving" if fans make unreasonable demands on the finances of others?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 6, 2017 15:10:23 GMT
Ian, igs very frustrating to read your many cryptic posts. You say for now but you also say that you only know someone in planning so can you add some meat to the bones or are you just leaving it at that ? I ask as these kind of posts only get many to think of more bizarre, some not, things that clukd be happening. My understanding is that planning for what was supposed to be a grade 2 academy would never habe got planning but I’m often wrong so how long is for now then mate ? UWE is a dead duck my good friend, even the planning people accept this now. The colony has PP to at least start the development with some buildings and pitches. The academy side of things i would guess is Phase 2 of the development which is the big money... Note sure what phase 3 involves yet No Plans have been submitted so far but discovery meetings are on going and no formal dates have been logged with the Planning people yet. Please forgive my many typos. I’m having problems with hand/eye co ordination right now due to treatment but shoukd settle down. I know a few like to pick up on these things so I’m explaining. My eyesight is not great either and I now habe eye tests bi monthly to keep my license. It was monthly so there has been some improvement 😻
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 6, 2017 15:15:29 GMT
That is so spot on. We are and have proven ourselves to be a very forgiving bunch and I am still stunned we get the crowds we do. If only WAQ could persuade dead pan Hani of the potential then maybe he would change tack but I fear he has very firmly made his decision. January is going to be a huge pivotal point as I called my friend up, after reading padstow talk of 4 leaving and I had that basically repeated. It woukd seem a few are certainly looking elsewhere. My belief is DC is one of them but hope I am wrong. How are we "forgiving" if fans make unreasonable demands on the finances of others? Is it unreasonable when El Presidente said it would happen oldie ? what I find distasteful, rude and even arrogant is the constant changing of plans, timescales and pure BS coming out of the club. I find it difficult to take when you hear our own chair showing close to anger on a radio show. It seems he is maybe as in the dark as the SC difectirs as the sing goes it’s a family affair
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Dec 6, 2017 15:28:20 GMT
So where do people expect the investment to come from to build a new Stadium?
Why did Wael say a new stadium is a must?
Is he expecting the fans to pay for this?
I thought they came from a Jordanian bank with net worth of 100s of millions of pounds?
Why did DC sign a 5 year contract and then become so openly foolly?
Full-time result is that expectations have been jettisoned by a decision made via Hani's charts to reduce funding.
The difference is that most supporters have now sussed this.
January will be key in determining how ruthless Dead Pan Hani is going to be.
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Post by gasbound on Dec 6, 2017 15:46:14 GMT
Ian, igs very frustrating to read your many cryptic posts. You say for now but you also say that you only know someone in planning so can you add some meat to the bones or are you just leaving it at that ? I ask as these kind of posts only get many to think of more bizarre, some not, things that clukd be happening. My understanding is that planning for what was supposed to be a grade 2 academy would never habe got planning but I’m often wrong so how long is for now then mate ? UWE is a dead duck my good friend, even the planning people accept this now. The colony has PP to at least start the development with some buildings and pitches. The academy side of things i would guess is Phase 2 of the development which is the big money... Note sure what phase 3 involves yet No Plans have been submitted so far but discovery meetings are on going and no formal dates have been logged with the Planning people yet. A friend suggested looking at the South Gloucestershire planning website; at the UWE stadium application PT12/0888/F. I expected no activity after November 2014 but was surprised to find a new discharge of conditions letter dated 14th November 2017. Strangely the application was made by UWEs planning consultants Alder King and not the usual Pegasus group. The letter clearly states the original application was a joint one by Rovers and UWE so I guess UWE can move the application on. So what is happening - a dead duck or a few 'quacks' left yet!
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Post by Curly Wurly on Dec 6, 2017 16:11:30 GMT
Was it? Personally I had serious doubts that the UWE (as funded) would deliver the aspirations of anyone. Secondly, do we really know what the aspirations of the owners truly were? Exactly.
Where is the evidence that UWE actually mad financial sense under NH or The Al-Qadi's.
The amount of cutbacks I was recently told about that NH was trying to push through if they were true, would never have benefited Rovers.
UWE has always hinged on having the right amount of money with little or no margin for error and under The Al-Qadi's I guess a 3 way split between stadium debt repayment, UWE and BRFC actually having money left over must have been a difficult balance as well
I agree with you. Could you elaborate on the "cutbacks I was recently told about that NH was trying to push through" as this has been mentioned a couple of times in the last week. To add to the opinion and beliefs that fill the void of actual information, it does seem as though the UWE deal was a poor one to start with and just eroded more as the mounting legal costs and the external debt increased. It was only ever viable because Sainsbury's initially offered an over inflated price for the Mem, and my belief remains that they were only site blocking rivals in the process, without a real intention of following the scheme through. Have the Al Qadi's fallen into the trap of over promising and under delivering? Undoubtedly so far, but it doesn't warrant the hysterical over reaction that seems to be the norm on here and via other social media IMO
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Dec 6, 2017 16:18:07 GMT
"petulant", "hysterical,"
Geoff Twentyman asked for a plan.
DC said we needed to get on with it.
Are they petulant, hysterical or just gravely concerned?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 6, 2017 16:48:32 GMT
So where do people expect the investment to come from to build a new Stadium? Why did Wael say a new stadium is a must? Is he expecting the fans to pay for this? I thought they came from a Jordanian bank with net worth of 100s of millions of pounds? Why did DC sign a 5 year contract and then become so openly foolly? Full-time result is that expectations have been jettisoned by a decision made via Hani's charts to reduce funding. The difference is that most supporters have now sussed this. January will be key in determining how ruthless Dead Pan Hani is going to be. In a nutshell. January will either show intent or be a damp squib. Personally I see only loans but if it helps us then I’m ok with that but am now hearing increasingly loud chatter of offers to personnel.
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
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Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 6, 2017 17:15:38 GMT
Exactly.
Where is the evidence that UWE actually mad financial sense under NH or The Al-Qadi's.
The amount of cutbacks I was recently told about that NH was trying to push through if they were true, would never have benefited Rovers.
UWE has always hinged on having the right amount of money with little or no margin for error and under The Al-Qadi's I guess a 3 way split between stadium debt repayment, UWE and BRFC actually having money left over must have been a difficult balance as well
I agree with you. Could you elaborate on the "cutbacks I was recently told about that NH was trying to push through" as this has been mentioned a couple of times in the last week. To add to the opinion and beliefs that fill the void of actual information, it does seem as though the UWE deal was a poor one to start with and just eroded more as the mounting legal costs and the external debt increased. It was only ever viable because Sainsbury's initially offered an over inflated price for the Mem, and my belief remains that they were only site blocking rivals in the process, without a real intention of following the scheme through. Have the Al Qadi's fallen into the trap of over promising and under delivering? Undoubtedly so far, but it doesn't warrant the hysterical over reaction that seems to be the norm on here and via other social media IMO I will preface by saying this was in conversation with someone who stands round by me at the game on Saturday and who had some involvements with the UWE project when NH was in charge Basically to get it built the cost had to reduced to x price. (I don’t know if this is pre or post Sainsbury’s) but basically it would have been a stripped down version of what was planned That big fancy bar would have become an open concourse where you could drink. The corners would have not had seating and filled with advertising sheeting Certain standrads of lighting (Lumens) are required for Championship and above. This would have been reduced to suit us at a lower level. (This was a few hundred grand saving apparently) Certain spaces would be left unfilled (interior walls etc I guess underneath the stands) You get the drift
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Post by Curly Wurly on Dec 6, 2017 18:13:16 GMT
"petulant", "hysterical," Geoff Twentyman asked for a plan. DC said we needed to get on with it. Are they petulant, hysterical or just gravely concerned? I think Geoff Twentyman asked the right questions in the right way. I think Darrell is frustrated with the slow rate of progress off the field and the setbacks on the field. Did I suggest either of them were petulant or hysterical? No But threatening to write an article with the express purpose of damaging someone's reputation and the name-calling is an example of being both petulant and hysterical, in my opinion. I'm concerned, but just like I didn't get over excited when Nick Higgs announced the stadium in the first place, I'm not getting too agitated because the UWE deal fell through and plans for the training ground are being scaled back. Evolution not revolution has been the Al Qadi mantra from the start and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, for now at least.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 18:42:02 GMT
that was the thing though, the uwe was meant to fund their aspirations, unless you get a lansdown [ who is trying to make their stadium pay ] to fund the club Was it? Personally I had serious doubts that the UWE (as funded) would deliver the aspirations of anyone. Secondly, do we really know what the aspirations of the owners truly were? so what doubts did you state on here that you doubted a fully funded uwe ? as for the owners aspirations i can only go on their original aims to get it delivered and move us forward
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 18:44:53 GMT
Was it? Personally I had serious doubts that the UWE (as funded) would deliver the aspirations of anyone. Secondly, do we really know what the aspirations of the owners truly were? Exactly.
Where is the evidence that UWE actually mad financial sense under NH or The Al-Qadi's.
The amount of cutbacks I was recently told about that NH was trying to push through if they were true, would never have benefited Rovers.
UWE has always hinged on having the right amount of money with little or no margin for error and under The Al-Qadi's I guess a 3 way split between stadium debt repayment, UWE and BRFC actually having money left over must have been a difficult balance as well
so what was this survey the family did to see if the thing was commercially a goer ?
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Post by Curly Wurly on Dec 6, 2017 18:50:42 GMT
I agree with you. Could you elaborate on the "cutbacks I was recently told about that NH was trying to push through" as this has been mentioned a couple of times in the last week. To add to the opinion and beliefs that fill the void of actual information, it does seem as though the UWE deal was a poor one to start with and just eroded more as the mounting legal costs and the external debt increased. It was only ever viable because Sainsbury's initially offered an over inflated price for the Mem, and my belief remains that they were only site blocking rivals in the process, without a real intention of following the scheme through. Have the Al Qadi's fallen into the trap of over promising and under delivering? Undoubtedly so far, but it doesn't warrant the hysterical over reaction that seems to be the norm on here and via other social media IMO I will preface by saying this was in conversation with someone who stands round by me at the game on Saturday and who had some involvements with the UWE project when NH was in charge Basically to get it built the cost had to reduced to x price. (I don’t know if this is pre or post Sainsbury’s) but basically it would have been a stripped down version of what was planned That big fancy bar would have become an open concourse where you could drink. The corners would have not had seating and filled with advertising sheeting Certain standrads of lighting (Lumens) are required for Championship and above. This would have been reduced to suit us at a lower level. (This was a few hundred grand saving apparently) Certain spaces would be left unfilled (interior walls etc I guess underneath the stands) You get the drift I hate to say it, but our 'friends' on otib were touting the idea of a trimmed back UWE a long time ago and, amongst others I scoffed at the idea at the time. In my mind, it just supports the idea that the UWE stadium was not perhaps the best of ideas.
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Post by Curly Wurly on Dec 6, 2017 19:06:25 GMT
Exactly.
Where is the evidence that UWE actually mad financial sense under NH or The Al-Qadi's.
The amount of cutbacks I was recently told about that NH was trying to push through if they were true, would never have benefited Rovers.
UWE has always hinged on having the right amount of money with little or no margin for error and under The Al-Qadi's I guess a 3 way split between stadium debt repayment, UWE and BRFC actually having money left over must have been a difficult balance as well
so what was this survey the family did to see if the thing was commercially a goer ? Genuine question. I remember the announcement that Dwane/the Al Qadi's had commissioned a feasibility study (in March/April?) and that it was taking longer than first expected, but I don't remember anyone revealing that the feasibility study had declared that the stadium was "commercially a goer". Can anyone point to any statement or interview where Wael or Steve Hamer declares that the feasibility study gave the development a clean bill of health as I've often seen mentioned on here and Gaschat?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 19:38:25 GMT
so what was this survey the family did to see if the thing was commercially a goer ? Genuine question. I remember the announcement that Dwane/the Al Qadi's had commissioned a feasibility study (in March/April?) and that it was taking longer than first expected, but I don't remember anyone revealing that the feasibility study had declared that the stadium was "commercially a goer". Can anyone point to any statement or interview where Wael or Steve Hamer declares that the feasibility study gave the development a clean bill of health as I've often seen mentioned on here and Gaschat? feasibility study, i couldnt for the life of me remember the right term
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 6, 2017 19:58:15 GMT
As far as I'm aware there has never been any official comment with regard to the feasibility study (or studies), from Dwane Sports or UWE.
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Post by PessimistGas on Dec 6, 2017 21:22:21 GMT
Ian, igs very frustrating to read your many cryptic posts. You say for now but you also say that you only know someone in planning so can you add some meat to the bones or are you just leaving it at that ? I ask as these kind of posts only get many to think of more bizarre, some not, things that clukd be happening. My understanding is that planning for what was supposed to be a grade 2 academy would never habe got planning but I’m often wrong so how long is for now then mate ? UWE is a dead duck my good friend, even the planning people accept this now. The colony has PP to at least start the development with some buildings and pitches. The academy side of things i would guess is Phase 2 of the development which is the big money... Note sure what phase 3 involves yet No Plans have been submitted so far but discovery meetings are on going and no formal dates have been logged with the Planning people yet. Phase 2? Hahahahhahahahahhhahahahahahaa
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 22:43:26 GMT
Was it? Personally I had serious doubts that the UWE (as funded) would deliver the aspirations of anyone. Secondly, do we really know what the aspirations of the owners truly were? so what doubts did you state on here that you doubted a fully funded uwe ? as for the owners aspirations i can only go on their original aims to get it delivered and move us forward I never believed that adequate funding was in place to build the UWE as originally planned, even with Sainsbury's. I had little doubt that the design for the shell and core, let alone the fit out, was there to drive the revenues the club needs to progress.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 6, 2017 22:49:54 GMT
so what doubts did you state on here that you doubted a fully funded uwe ? as for the owners aspirations i can only go on their original aims to get it delivered and move us forward I never believed that adequate funding was in place to build the USE as originally planned, even with Sainsbury's. I had little doubt that the design for the shell and core, let alone the fit out, was there to drive the revenues the club needs to progress. You suggesting that Mr Higgs didn't have all the finances in place either? Ultimately - you know what... We're all Gasheads - with a gallows sense of humour. Hopefully will be in the Wellie ahead of the Shrimpers game. UTG.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 7, 2017 6:21:48 GMT
UWE is a dead duck my good friend, even the planning people accept this now. The colony has PP to at least start the development with some buildings and pitches. The academy side of things i would guess is Phase 2 of the development which is the big money... Note sure what phase 3 involves yet No Plans have been submitted so far but discovery meetings are on going and no formal dates have been logged with the Planning people yet. A friend suggested looking at the South Gloucestershire planning website; at the UWE stadium application PT12/0888/F. I expected no activity after November 2014 but was surprised to find a new discharge of conditions letter dated 14th November 2017. Strangely the application was made by UWEs planning consultants Alder King and not the usual Pegasus group. The letter clearly states the original application was a joint one by Rovers and UWE so I guess UWE can move the application on. So what is happening - a dead duck or a few 'quacks' left yet! If The UWE want to go their own way with other partners they will have to summit new planning application. That was also the intention of BRFC anyway as the current design was not fit for purpose
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