|
Post by swissgas on Dec 3, 2017 0:21:59 GMT
Don't you think they would give the football club ( and the losses/responsibilities which go with it) to someone else for nothing but retain BRFC 1883 Ltd so the Mem could be sold for development to pay off the loan ? Wael said today "we will be starting from scratch" so perhaps the next question should be "whereabouts will we be starting from scratch ?" I respect you commentary so much but BRFC Own the Memorial Co. Who own the ground. They liquidate everything or nothing surely? The asset is the football clubs, technically not Dwane Sports so need to change ownership Bristol Rovers Football Club Ltd (incorporated 1897) is a subsidiary of Bristol Rovers (1883) Ltd (incorporated 2002) Bristol Rovers (1883) Ltd owns The Mem
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,177
|
Post by eppinggas on Dec 3, 2017 0:30:18 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong - but doesn't Dwane Sports owns Bristol Rovers (1883) Ltd? So they can do whatever they like. Reputational damage in selling the Mem and leaving us homeless? Just a ripple of applause from the banking community.
|
|
|
Post by swissgas on Dec 3, 2017 0:36:22 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong - but doesn't Dwane Sports owns Bristol Rovers (1883) Ltd? So they can do whatever they like. Reputational damage in selling the Mem and leaving us homeless? Just a ripple of applause from the banking community. Yes, Dwane Sports Ltd owns 92% of Bristol Rovers (1883) Ltd
|
|
|
Post by chelt_gas on Dec 3, 2017 1:32:32 GMT
It all fits, I think you're probably pretty close to the mark with most of this. What is harder to work out is what the exit strategy is. Looks like there isn't any sort of plan right now. Just a complete mess. They can exit quite easily by liquidating the club and recouping their money. No damage to their reputation does anyone really believe people doing good business with the bank they own shares in have heard of bristol rovers? Personally I've never been more concerned about the future of bristol rovers Bristol Rovers in it's current entity will only be an investment for a banker if profit is generated. But the current model needs to change in order to find an extra 2 million per season to break even. With income largely being dependent on 8,000 supporters per game per season, and maybe the odd transfer, then finding this extra money will be near on impossible. When extra money cannot be found the logical next step is to find savings from within. It'll be interesting to see how the luxuries of the development squad and backseat administrators continue to be funded. Dwayne Dibley sports are fabricating the ROI by their interest charged on the money being loaned to the club but the irony is this is unsustainable even though the term sustainable is the mantra of Wael. Maybe Rovers is being used as a tax-write off for more profitable investments in the AQ portfolio. Even if Hani spent 40 million on a new stadium he'd need to be convinced that an extra 2 million income per season, compared to the present, will be generated, in addition to covering any financing costs, and in addition to ensuring the team at least stays in this division for such period of time. Would there be a doubling of attendances with a new stadium? What's the going rate for renting a stadium for one-off events? We could have sure as hell done with a decent cup run this season...
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 9:04:21 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong - but doesn't Dwane Sports owns Bristol Rovers (1883) Ltd? So they can do whatever they like. Reputational damage in selling the Mem and leaving us homeless? Just a ripple of applause from the banking community. Yes, Dwane Sports Ltd owns 92% of Bristol Rovers (1883) Ltd All correct and in the right order Swissgas.
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,177
|
Post by eppinggas on Dec 3, 2017 13:48:21 GMT
I listened to it. DC said on a number of occasions that the board were working hard behind the scenes. He said they were working hard on the training ground. He said he didn't know what was happening with it himself, why would he. He said we need the training ground and ground. All stuff we already new. He was with Wael and Hamer after the interview at the development game. He would have known that before speaking. Think some fans choose to only listen to part of the interview lol Hi Daniel 300380. I'm not winding you up. But post-Hamer interview do you remain positive about our owners, their 'strategy' and the direction of our Football Club? It's just one thing after another at the moment... what with the tooth fairy and now I'm hearing some serious sh*t about Father Christmas... Hi Daniel - any change of heart since Wael's interview? I'm not winding you up. I am concerned that some Gasheads still appear to have blind faith in the Al-Qadi's / Dwane Sports.
|
|
|
Post by Henbury Gas on Dec 4, 2017 11:46:13 GMT
what he said. Unless, as suggested above, the purchase was a short-term indulgence of WAQ. Or something has changed with family finances. Or there has been a tiff. But, as you said, it doesn't make sense Yup - it's a family tiff on a major scale. Here is my take on it. 1. Wael got very enthusiastic about the purchase of BRFC. What with the prospect of synergies with the UWE and future profits at the new Stadium. 2. Hani told him to do the numbers. 3. Wael rushed it because there were "another 10 interested buyers" (as per Nick Higgs comment). Banking is about two things. FEAR and GREED. Wael didn't want to miss out on what looked like a good deal - and he persuaded Hani to go for it. Bankers are by nature cautious, but they are also greedy. 4. The devil is in the detail. Dwane Sports re-did the numbers at the UWE - and they did not add up. Wael was sent back to renegotiate with UWE in an attempt to make them work. He failed. 5. Hani had a monumental fit and seized the purse strings. To protect his investment Dwane Sports put a charge on the Memorial Stadium. 6. It transpires that owning BRFC without the prospect of a shiny new UWE Stadium does not make BRFC a great addition to the Al-Qadi investment portfolio. That is where we are. A family at war and a Club hemorrhaging cash. Hey Wael - I bet you've heard this a few times recently. "If a deal looks like it is too good to be true - then that's probably because it IS". Sounds like an episode of Dallas....... What part did the poison dwarf play in this drama ?
|
|
|
Post by The Concept on Dec 5, 2017 21:05:38 GMT
When the collapse of the UWE deal was announced, and the talk came out that the plan now was to redevelop The Mem, a small part of me was hoping it was purely a stalling tactic before some new grand plans were paraded for a brand new stadium on a different site.
A few months on, and after the interviews firstly by SH, and now WAQ, that hope has all but gone - it looks like the best we get is some sort of redeveloped Mem.
Bearing in mind the background of the A-Q's, I find this strange: to keep up with the Jones's, unfortunately, you need the add-ons - things like bars, restaurants, conference and events facilities, and a hotel on site (the A-Q's background). The Mem just doesn't have the room for any add-ons - it will be cramped enough finding room for 18,000 seats.
The UWE site was ideal: next door to a University, other major businesses (7,500 at the MoD over the road), a business park, industry not far away in Filton / Patchway, housing estates going up around. The Holiday Inn, right by the Fox Den pub, is currently being extended.
Here's an example of what the add-ons can bring: Lancashire CCC, Old Trafford. - 150-bedroom Hilton Gardens Inn estimated turnover in 2018 = £4m. - The Point conferencing and events, current turnover = £3.7m.
Having said all that, I read Martin's page in the programme on Saturday, about what it means to be a Rovers fan, and found myself agreeing with him.
|
|
|
Post by a more piratey game on Dec 5, 2017 21:23:27 GMT
Not sure what fans were expecting and why there are more rumours than ever. You can only look on what has been done. Colony land bought Development side set up Improved back room staff including coaching set up, medical team etc More money spent on a player since Tilson and how many years ago was that? 5 year contract to DC Even simple things like travelling to away games the night before. I think you're right there daniel. And some of those things were 'things we hadn't even thought of', which seemed to demonstrate vision as well as commitment but the investment tide turned some time ago, didn't it, and it doesn't seem to be coming back in again?
|
|
|
Post by daniel300380 on Dec 5, 2017 22:49:44 GMT
Not sure what fans were expecting and why there are more rumours than ever. You can only look on what has been done. Colony land bought Development side set up Improved back room staff including coaching set up, medical team etc More money spent on a player since Tilson and how many years ago was that? 5 year contract to DC Even simple things like travelling to away games the night before. I think you're right there daniel. And some of those things were 'things we hadn't even thought of', which seemed to demonstrate vision as well as commitment but the investment tide turned some time ago, didn't it, and it doesn't seem to be coming back in again? According to rumours, but not sure if it totally has changed. We were advertising for a club doctor to work with the team not long ago. We have offered Bodin a new contract, obviously I'm not sure of the terms though. Still arranging development games on a regular basis. Still sending coaches on courses aid there development etc. So how do we know they have stopped investing? Window does not open until January, so until then, it's hard to know how much they are still investing. They never said they would invest £10 million a season. All the extras add up every week though.
|
|
Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
|
Post by Peter Parker on Dec 6, 2017 5:44:12 GMT
Not sure what fans were expecting and why there are more rumours than ever. You can only look on what has been done. Colony land bought Development side set up Improved back room staff including coaching set up, medical team etc More money spent on a player since Tilson and how many years ago was that? 5 year contract to DC Even simple things like travelling to away games the night before. I think you're right there daniel. And some of those things were 'things we hadn't even thought of', which seemed to demonstrate vision as well as commitment but the investment tide turned some time ago, didn't it, and it doesn't seem to be coming back in again? Some people are worried that we are reachinv the magic number of maximum borrowing/investment And yet some of the same people are telling us Hani is ONLY prepares to spend £2m on the training ground. How does that work then? Someone make some sense of me that Dwane are going to spend 2m on a field they dont want or need, if they are going to thanks, but thats us done?
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,177
|
Post by eppinggas on Dec 6, 2017 7:49:29 GMT
I think you're right there daniel. And some of those things were 'things we hadn't even thought of', which seemed to demonstrate vision as well as commitment but the investment tide turned some time ago, didn't it, and it doesn't seem to be coming back in again? Some people are worried that we are reachinv the maging number of investment of borrowing/investment And yet some of the same people are telling us Hani is ONLY prepares to spend £2m on the training ground. How does that work then? Someone make some sense of me that Dwane are going to spend 2m on a field they dont want or need, if they are going to thanks, but thats us done? 1. They bought that field before the UWE collapse. Upto mid-summer 2017 I believe they were still intent on building a new Stadium. 2. Dwane Sports own the field, it's nothing to do with Bristol Rovers. IF they were still going to build a Category 2 Training facility and they were looking at a realistic start date (NOT July 2019) - then I would take this as firm evidence that they are here for the long run. They are not - they are "scaling" it back to 2 pitches and a changing room (with potential to improve facilities in the future). Opening date for this - an ambitious July 1st 2019. It's kind of a moot point. One way or another they will be long gone by then.
|
|
|
Post by The Concept on Dec 6, 2017 9:15:52 GMT
Some people are worried that we are reachinv the maging number of investment of borrowing/investment And yet some of the same people are telling us Hani is ONLY prepares to spend £2m on the training ground. How does that work then? Someone make some sense of me that Dwane are going to spend 2m on a field they dont want or need, if they are going to thanks, but thats us done? 1. They bought that field before the UWE collapse. Upto mid-summer 2017 I believe they were still intent on building a new Stadium. 2. Dwane Sports own the field, it's nothing to do with Bristol Rovers. IF they were still going to build a Category 2 Training facility and they were looking at a realistic start date (NOT July 2019) - then I would take this as firm evidence that they are here for the long run. They are not - they are "scaling" it back to 2 pitches and a changing room (with potential to improve facilities in the future). Opening date for this - an ambitious July 1st 2019. It's kind of a moot point. One way or another they will be long gone by then. I keep reading this line, but all I have heard is that the training ground will be developed gradually. 1/ Can someone tell me where I can find it stated as fact we are starting with just 2 pitches? 2/ Can someone tell me how much money would be saved by having only 2 pitches, to say 10 pitches? - I would have thought the big saving (before going to Academy status, or whatever it's called) is to not have an outdoor, all-weather, artificial training pitch, and/or not have an indoor sports hall / training pitch, a fully-fitted gymnasium, and kitchen/restaurant facilities. - I would have thought the outlay between having 2 and 10 pitches is minimal. - I would be happy with a starting point where we have sufficient training pitches, and changing facilities, for all Rovers squads to be training in one place.
|
|
GasMacc1
Les Bradd
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,423
|
Post by GasMacc1 on Dec 6, 2017 9:55:08 GMT
1. They bought that field before the UWE collapse. Upto mid-summer 2017 I believe they were still intent on building a new Stadium. 2. Dwane Sports own the field, it's nothing to do with Bristol Rovers. IF they were still going to build a Category 2 Training facility and they were looking at a realistic start date (NOT July 2019) - then I would take this as firm evidence that they are here for the long run. They are not - they are "scaling" it back to 2 pitches and a changing room (with potential to improve facilities in the future). Opening date for this - an ambitious July 1st 2019. It's kind of a moot point. One way or another they will be long gone by then. I keep reading this line, but all I have heard is that the training ground will be developed gradually. 1/ Can someone tell me where I can find it stated as fact we are starting with just 2 pitches? 2/ Can someone tell me how much money would be saved by having only 2 pitches, to say 10 pitches? - I would have thought the big saving (before going to Academy status, or whatever it's called) is to not have an outdoor, all-weather, artificial training pitch, and/or not have an indoor sports hall / training pitch, a fully-fitted gymnasium, and kitchen/restaurant facilities. - I would have thought the outlay between having 2 and 10 pitches is minimal. - I would be happy with a starting point where we have sufficient training pitches, and changing facilities, for all Rovers squads to be training in one place. It's in the Steve Hamer interview with Geoff 20man on "Having a Gas". I think he actually said "one main pitch and three training pitches". I agree that it would be possible to start off with a basic level of facility and build from there.
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,177
|
Post by eppinggas on Dec 6, 2017 10:06:00 GMT
I think Cast In Stone may have had some details on the "scaling back". Like I said - in my opinion it's a moot point.
|
|
GasMacc1
Les Bradd
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,423
|
Post by GasMacc1 on Dec 6, 2017 10:27:30 GMT
Listening again to the Steve Hamer interview, these snippets are worth highlighting:
"No, the training ground hasn't stalled. We have a target for the training ground, and that's 1st July 2019. That's when we intend to move in and do it".
"We are in the throes of getting planning permission. We've had times when we've looked at a slightly extravagant plan there. That's been re-drafted and we've looked at something else. We're doing it within a budget, what we can live with. I'm very optimistic, I think it'll be a great thing for the club".
"There was a bold plan to go, what I call, "all-singing, all-dancing", to produce, if you like, a Premier League equivalent, but then obviously, reality kicks in, and there are certain costs that have to be met, and it's very, very expensive. So what we thought we'd rather do is to do it in phases. I think we've realised now that, in terms of affordability, and what we can really do is to build up a phase where we give the best and we build up every year as and when we can".
[GT: How much money is being afforded for the training ground project which will be ready on 1st July 2019?] "Well, it depends on what we can win out of the planning application. We have a figure in mind which will be acceptable and will give Darrell far more than he's got at the moment".
"It'll be a decent training ground that will be as good as most clubs have at the moment".
"Initially, I think, we'll have a number 1 pitch and I think three others more to support it, I think eventually there'll be all-weather pitches being laid down there, all kinds of things are possible there. It's a very big site: 30 acres. It's well located, it's good access, it's a nice legacy to leave the football club.
|
|
|
Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Dec 6, 2017 10:41:58 GMT
So what's wrong with that?
|
|
|
Post by The Concept on Dec 6, 2017 11:49:41 GMT
Listening again to the Steve Hamer interview, these snippets are worth highlighting: "No, the training ground hasn't stalled. We have a target for the training ground, and that's 1st July 2019. That's when we intend to move in and do it". "We are in the throes of getting planning permission. We've had times when we've looked at a slightly extravagant plan there. That's been re-drafted and we've looked at something else. We're doing it within a budget, what we can live with. I'm very optimistic, I think it'll be a great thing for the club". "There was a bold plan to go, what I call, "all-singing, all-dancing", to produce, if you like, a Premier League equivalent, but then obviously, reality kicks in, and there are certain costs that have to be met, and it's very, very expensive. So what we thought we'd rather do is to do it in phases. I think we've realised now that, in terms of affordability, and what we can really do is to build up a phase where we give the best and we build up every year as and when we can". [GT: How much money is being afforded for the training ground project which will be ready on 1st July 2019?] "Well, it depends on what we can win out of the planning application. We have a figure in mind which will be acceptable and will give Darrell far more than he's got at the moment". "It'll be a decent training ground that will be as good as most clubs have at the moment". "Initially, I think, we'll have a number 1 pitch and I think three others more to support it, I think eventually there'll be all-weather pitches being laid down there, all kinds of things are possible there. It's a very big site: 30 acres. It's well located, it's good access, it's a nice legacy to leave the football club. Excellent! Thank you. That seems fine to accommodate all the squad together, in one place. I do hate it when wrong figures are banded around, to try and prove a point. I've said a thousand-million times, I can't abide it when people exaggerate.
|
|
kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,263
|
Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 6, 2017 15:20:14 GMT
I think you're right there daniel. And some of those things were 'things we hadn't even thought of', which seemed to demonstrate vision as well as commitment but the investment tide turned some time ago, didn't it, and it doesn't seem to be coming back in again? Some people are worried that we are reachinv the magic number of maximum borrowing/investment And yet some of the same people are telling us Hani is ONLY prepares to spend £2m on the training ground. How does that work then? Someone make some sense of me that Dwane are going to spend 2m on a field they dont want or need, if they are going to thanks, but thats us done? IF the ALQ’s were preparing the way for a sale, indulge me for one moment please, then doesn’t it make sense to sell with the land or at least basic facilities in place and hopefully with pp ? Just a thought. Could be well wide of the mark but just selling my house, I’ve been advised to get pp for an extension to the side and rear and the value goes up by a lot more than I’d spend out doing that
|
|
kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,263
|
Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 6, 2017 15:24:22 GMT
1. They bought that field before the UWE collapse. Upto mid-summer 2017 I believe they were still intent on building a new Stadium. 2. Dwane Sports own the field, it's nothing to do with Bristol Rovers. IF they were still going to build a Category 2 Training facility and they were looking at a realistic start date (NOT July 2019) - then I would take this as firm evidence that they are here for the long run. They are not - they are "scaling" it back to 2 pitches and a changing room (with potential to improve facilities in the future). Opening date for this - an ambitious July 1st 2019. It's kind of a moot point. One way or another they will be long gone by then. I keep reading this line, but all I have heard is that the training ground will be developed gradually. 1/ Can someone tell me where I can find it stated as fact we are starting with just 2 pitches? 2/ Can someone tell me how much money would be saved by having only 2 pitches, to say 10 pitches? - I would have thought the big saving (before going to Academy status, or whatever it's called) is to not have an outdoor, all-weather, artificial training pitch, and/or not have an indoor sports hall / training pitch, a fully-fitted gymnasium, and kitchen/restaurant facilities. - I would have thought the outlay between having 2 and 10 pitches is minimal. - I would be happy with a starting point where we have sufficient training pitches, and changing facilities, for all Rovers squads to be training in one place. And I believe so would most of us but first we get news that it will be ready by start of next season then fencegate and the grass is just growing taller, no sign of movement workwise. If we saw some evidence of work being done then this would be more than sufficient to allay most, I believe
|
|