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Post by billyocean on Nov 13, 2017 13:14:58 GMT
Completely agree on the hearts transparency ( www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/6106). Realise it's not always possible to provide quite as much detail but hearing things like the Colony is still in planning consultation (could be in the running for the longest planning consultation since HS2) and throw in obfuscation over what really happened with UWE and you only fan the conspiracy theory flames.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 13, 2017 19:59:49 GMT
Sorry, have I missed something, are Ware, Higgs, Watola and Seymour-Smith proposing something? Not sure what Ed ever did during his time at Rovers? BSS, pretty ineffective and doesn't exactly seem to have won the ear of the new owners. The other 2 don't have a great track record at all. Based on previous performance I'm not sure why anyone would have any interest in what they think would be best to do? I agree with the sentiment,. There is a bizarre strain of thought out there which seems to imply that if the AQ regime turns out to be bad then this will somehow reflect better on the Nick Higgs regime. I notice that an awful lot of people who were in the 'put up or shut up' brigade when faced with criticism of the NH era are now being particularly critical of the AQ's. In my view if the current ownership turns out to be a disaster then that is actually the final nail in the coffin of the Nick Higgs legacy - pretty much the only thing it has going for it at this stage is that they succeeded in a smooth and successful handover. If that turns out to false too then oh dear...... I am definitely increasingly concerned - in the last 6 months I've moved from skeptical optimism to shaky hopes that perhaps it isn't as bad as all the warning lights on the dashboard are suggesting it is; this is never a good place to be. What is worse is that people who are saying 'do something then' may be missing the point from what I can see. Back in Twerton days and in the early days of the Mem if the club was on its uppers you could have a whip round, stuff like that really did rescue the club on a number of occasions and from there (some) people did try to exert some pressure on the club in a bottom up manner. But our debt has now ballooned to such a degree that we really are in hands of the millionaire's hoping that they produce a result to our liking. There is no 'something' to be done at this point as far as I can see - these are not problems that can be solved in that way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 20:52:00 GMT
Spot on. Dwane Sports ownership not working out does nothing to make Higgs less awful. Relegation from the football league. Wongaloans to fund suicidal litigation against stadium project 'partners'. Santa's Bloody Grotto. I am worried about our prospects. But less so than once I was.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 13, 2017 22:00:26 GMT
I'm with the avian most of the way... But one thing to contemplate. Nick Higgs (for all his many faults) is a life-long Gashead with with business interests and friends and family in the Bristol area. Would he have ever contemplated selling the Mem and leaving BRFC homeless to settle all his / BRFC outstanding debt? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Of course we will never know. Luckily for him a Jordanian knight in shining armour appeared and everything was just lovely for about 18 months. But Wael does not have hold of the purse strings. It is a possibility that Dwane Sports could do the unthinkable and sell the Mem to cover their investment if they cannot find a buyer. They are a business - not a charity. IMHO the "great Mem redevelopment" is a smokescreen. It all seems horribly plausible. I hope I am wrong. But all fans should at least be aware of it.
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Post by PeterHooper57 on Nov 14, 2017 10:54:17 GMT
I'm with the avian most of the way... But one thing to contemplate. Nick Higgs (for all his many faults) is a life-long Gashead with with business interests and friends and family in the Bristol area. Would he have ever contemplated selling the Mem and leaving BRFC homeless to settle all his / BRFC outstanding debt? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Of course we will never know. Luckily for him a Jordanian knight in shining armour appeared and everything was just lovely for about 18 months. But Wael does not have hold of the purse strings. It is a possibility that Dwane Sports could do the unthinkable and sell the Mem to cover their investment if they cannot find a buyer. They are a business - not a charity. IMHO the "great Mem redevelopment" is a smokescreen. It all seems horribly plausible. I hope I am wrong. But all fans should at least be aware of it. Unfortunately, I think you are really near the truth. Waq & Hamer have stopped talking to both the fans and the press, the silence is frightening. For me the January transfer window will be a tipping point, if there is limited investment in the squad, then I envisage the for sale sign going up, which as you say could mean Dwane Sports selling the MEM to a developer.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Nov 14, 2017 10:59:47 GMT
I'm with the avian most of the way... But one thing to contemplate. Nick Higgs (for all his many faults) is a life-long Gashead with with business interests and friends and family in the Bristol area. Would he have ever contemplated selling the Mem and leaving BRFC homeless to settle all his / BRFC outstanding debt? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Of course we will never know. Luckily for him a Jordanian knight in shining armour appeared and everything was just lovely for about 18 months. But Wael does not have hold of the purse strings. It is a possibility that Dwane Sports could do the unthinkable and sell the Mem to cover their investment if they cannot find a buyer. They are a business - not a charity. IMHO the "great Mem redevelopment" is a smokescreen. It all seems horribly plausible. I hope I am wrong. But all fans should at least be aware of it. Unfortunately, I think you are really near the truth. Waq & Hamer have stopped talking to both the fans and the press, the silence is frightening. For me the January transfer window will be a tipping point, if there is limited investment in the squad, then I envisage the for sale sign going up, which as you say could mean Dwane Sports selling the MEM to a developer. Steve Hamer was at the SC AGM just under a month ago. Not sure what was asked though as the minutes haven't been published yet
Mind you people probably wouldn't believe him anyway so....
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Post by daniel300380 on Nov 14, 2017 11:17:02 GMT
I'm with the avian most of the way... But one thing to contemplate. Nick Higgs (for all his many faults) is a life-long Gashead with with business interests and friends and family in the Bristol area. Would he have ever contemplated selling the Mem and leaving BRFC homeless to settle all his / BRFC outstanding debt? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Of course we will never know. Luckily for him a Jordanian knight in shining armour appeared and everything was just lovely for about 18 months. But Wael does not have hold of the purse strings. It is a possibility that Dwane Sports could do the unthinkable and sell the Mem to cover their investment if they cannot find a buyer. They are a business - not a charity. IMHO the "great Mem redevelopment" is a smokescreen. It all seems horribly plausible. I hope I am wrong. But all fans should at least be aware of it. Unfortunately, I think you are really near the truth. Waq & Hamer have stopped talking to both the fans and the press, the silence is frightening. For me the January transfer window will be a tipping point, if there is limited investment in the squad, then I envisage the for sale sign going up, which as you say could mean Dwane Sports selling the MEM to a developer. Have they stopped talking or if there just nothing new to report? Last we heard they are hoping to start Colony in February. It is not February yet, so unless it has changed, why would we hear anything different? With the mem, it was always going to take time. Meetings were held with local residents and I thought people went in to see what they can do with it. It was obvious it would take ages to plan, so I wasn't expecting to hear anything this year. Why bother doing all this, if they are looking to sell? So do fans want an update, saying the same as before??? Not sure what fans were expecting and why there are more rumours than ever. You can only look on what has been done. Colony land bought Development side set up Improved back room staff including coaching set up, medical team etc More money spent on a player since Tilson and how many years ago was that? 5 year contract to DC Even simple things like travelling to away games the night before. Plus they have a good reputation all over the world. Would they ruin that by selling the mem, I doubt any business person would. Would cost them more in the long run. Plus why is Wael still attending games when he can, standing with the fans if he does not care and is looking for a way out? Heard of thinking the worst, but some of these posts are way over the top!!
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harrybuckle
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Post by harrybuckle on Nov 14, 2017 13:13:51 GMT
Unfortunately, I think you are really near the truth. Waq & Hamer have stopped talking to both the fans and the press, the silence is frightening. For me the January transfer window will be a tipping point, if there is limited investment in the squad, then I envisage the for sale sign going up, which as you say could mean Dwane Sports selling the MEM to a developer. Steve Hamer was at the SC AGM just under a month ago. Not sure what was asked though as the minutes haven't been published yet
Mind you people probably wouldn't believe him anyway so....
Formal minutes of the BRSC are recorded but the open forum Q & A are not recorded ...Hamer after a question did say that the proposed statue intended for the UWE Stadium for Geoff Bradford will still be incorporated at the re developed Mem....since then in an email to the fan collecting fans donations Hamer has confirmed the cost of the statue estimated at £60k will have to be funded purely by fans ! Currently the donations over the past four years has raised just under £1500 so at that rate going to be a 20 year plus campaign to fully fund it
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 14, 2017 13:52:17 GMT
I'm with the avian most of the way... But one thing to contemplate. Nick Higgs (for all his many faults) is a life-long Gashead with with business interests and friends and family in the Bristol area. Would he have ever contemplated selling the Mem and leaving BRFC homeless to settle all his / BRFC outstanding debt? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Of course we will never know. Luckily for him a Jordanian knight in shining armour appeared and everything was just lovely for about 18 months. But Wael does not have hold of the purse strings. It is a possibility that Dwane Sports could do the unthinkable and sell the Mem to cover their investment if they cannot find a buyer. They are a business - not a charity. IMHO the "great Mem redevelopment" is a smokescreen. It all seems horribly plausible. I hope I am wrong. But all fans should at least be aware of it. Yes but for all that was true of Nick Higgs he showed very little evidence of understanding the mentality of Bristol Rovers fans. I've always thought the idea of the local custodian who acts in the interest of the club out of love for it and the community (which was the dominant perception of owners in English football) was a bit naive. I see no real difference between the AQ's and Nick Higgs in that respect. Yes, it's not a good thing that there is a massive distance between owners and fans which means they may have diverging interests regarding the future of the club and may at some point represent an existential crisis for Rovers. But the idea that this process only happened when the AQ's took over is just wrong in my view. It happened years ago when we were still under the control of the local 'custodians'. As I see it the point at which debts are being run up/covered to the extent that the club can only continue as a going concern due to the financing of extremely wealthy backers is the point at which we were no longer a custodian type club (run by local businessmen who can call on the fanbase for help and potentially to bail them out in hard times etc) and became a plaything of millionaires. Where those millionaires come from is largely irrelevant in the end in terms of their commitment to Gasheads because the sheer amount of money involved is ultimately going to dictate their actions. All we can do is hope that they are a)competent and b)honest in their intentions. This is not taking a pop at Nick Higgs but if things had continued as they were and he'd been unable to find a buyer at some point he would surely have had to contemplate selling the Mem or risk ruination (or at least a substantial reduction in his personal wealth).
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 14, 2017 16:37:36 GMT
Don't disagree Irish. But it's a moot point - Nick Higgs (either by luck, good business skills or by divine intervention) did find a buyer. My answer to A). Yes, I think they are competent businessmen. And competent businessmen look for a return on their investment, they do not throw away money. My answer to B). Yes, I believe they were totally honest in their intentions to build at UWE and invest in the Club. Post UWE - depends what you mean by "honest intentions". If they can't find a buyer, then I obviously hope they stand by us and fund our losses. Incredibly we are losing circa £1mil a year on average home gates of 9,300 - yet we only have a "mid-table" budget? I was going to start another thread on how the duck are we losing that amount of money with the highest gates since the late 1970's??? I don't see benevolent benefactors. I see businessmen.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 14, 2017 21:36:58 GMT
Don't disagree Irish. But it's a moot point - Nick Higgs (either by luck, good business skills or by divine intervention) did find a buyer. My answer to A). Yes, I think they are competent businessmen. And competent businessmen look for a return on their investment, they do not throw away money. My answer to B). Yes, I believe they were totally honest in their intentions to build at UWE and invest in the Club. Post UWE - depends what you mean by "honest intentions". If they can't find a buyer, then I obviously hope they stand by us and fund our losses. Incredibly we are losing circa £1mil a year on average home gates of 9,300 - yet we only have a "mid-table" budget? I was going to start another thread on how the duck are we losing that amount of money with the highest gates since the late 1970's??? I don't see benevolent benefactors. I see businessmen. Yes - I think that's definitely right. But the problem that their business interests and our interests as fans may not be aligned - possibly not even slightly aligned. For all its faults, potential for corruption and rose-tintedmess the idea of the 'custodian model' generally had the 2 aligned most of the time.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 17, 2017 9:46:32 GMT
Unfortunately, I think you are really near the truth. Waq & Hamer have stopped talking to both the fans and the press, the silence is frightening. For me the January transfer window will be a tipping point, if there is limited investment in the squad, then I envisage the for sale sign going up, which as you say could mean Dwane Sports selling the MEM to a developer. Have they stopped talking or if there just nothing new to report? Last we heard they are hoping to start Colony in February. It is not February yet, so unless it has changed, why would we hear anything different? With the mem, it was always going to take time. Meetings were held with local residents and I thought people went in to see what they can do with it. It was obvious it would take ages to plan, so I wasn't expecting to hear anything this year. Why bother doing all this, if they are looking to sell? So do fans want an update, saying the same as before??? Not sure what fans were expecting and why there are more rumours than ever. You can only look on what has been done. Colony land bought Development side set up Improved back room staff including coaching set up, medical team etc More money spent on a player since Tilson and how many years ago was that? 5 year contract to DC Even simple things like travelling to away games the night before. Plus they have a good reputation all over the world. Would they ruin that by selling the mem, I doubt any business person would. Would cost them more in the long run. Plus why is Wael still attending games when he can, standing with the fans if he does not care and is looking for a way out? Heard of thinking the worst, but some of these posts are way over the top!! Daniel300380 - have a listen to the full unedited Geoff 20Man interview with Darrell Clarke and take it from there. I've also got some really bad news about the tooth fairy...
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Post by daniel300380 on Nov 18, 2017 1:02:20 GMT
Have they stopped talking or if there just nothing new to report? Last we heard they are hoping to start Colony in February. It is not February yet, so unless it has changed, why would we hear anything different? With the mem, it was always going to take time. Meetings were held with local residents and I thought people went in to see what they can do with it. It was obvious it would take ages to plan, so I wasn't expecting to hear anything this year. Why bother doing all this, if they are looking to sell? So do fans want an update, saying the same as before??? Not sure what fans were expecting and why there are more rumours than ever. You can only look on what has been done. Colony land bought Development side set up Improved back room staff including coaching set up, medical team etc More money spent on a player since Tilson and how many years ago was that? 5 year contract to DC Even simple things like travelling to away games the night before. Plus they have a good reputation all over the world. Would they ruin that by selling the mem, I doubt any business person would. Would cost them more in the long run. Plus why is Wael still attending games when he can, standing with the fans if he does not care and is looking for a way out? Heard of thinking the worst, but some of these posts are way over the top!! Daniel300380 - have a listen to the full unedited Geoff 20Man interview with Darrell Clarke and take it from there. I've also got some really bad news about the tooth fairy... I listened to it. DC said on a number of occasions that the board were working hard behind the scenes. He said they were working hard on the training ground. He said he didn't know what was happening with it himself, why would he. He said we need the training ground and ground. All stuff we already new. He was with Wael and Hamer after the interview at the development game. He would have known that before speaking. Think some fans choose to only listen to part of the interview lol
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 18, 2017 8:24:21 GMT
All I would say is that you are finding positives where I struggle to find them! Are rose tinted ears a thing?
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Nov 18, 2017 8:58:07 GMT
All I would say is that you are finding positives where I struggle to find them! Are rose tinted ears a thing? Likewise sone will only highlight the negative I mean imagine how pissed he would be witbout all the staff recruitmet or the development squad
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 22, 2017 8:48:13 GMT
All I would say is that you are finding positives where I struggle to find them! Are rose tinted ears a thing? Likewise sone will only highlight the negative I mean imagine how pissed he would be witbout all the staff recruitmet or the development squad If we have recruited additional staff to the point we are losing £1mil a year on average gates of 9,200 - yes I would be pissed off.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 14:37:58 GMT
Unfortunately, I think you are really near the truth. Waq & Hamer have stopped talking to both the fans and the press, the silence is frightening. For me the January transfer window will be a tipping point, if there is limited investment in the squad, then I envisage the for sale sign going up, which as you say could mean Dwane Sports selling the MEM to a developer. Have they stopped talking or if there just nothing new to report? Last we heard they are hoping to start Colony in February. It is not February yet, so unless it has changed, why would we hear anything different? With the mem, it was always going to take time. Meetings were held with local residents and I thought people went in to see what they can do with it. It was obvious it would take ages to plan, so I wasn't expecting to hear anything this year. Why bother doing all this, if they are looking to sell? So do fans want an update, saying the same as before??? Not sure what fans were expecting and why there are more rumours than ever. You can only look on what has been done. Colony land bought Development side set up Improved back room staff including coaching set up, medical team etc More money spent on a player since Tilson and how many years ago was that? 5 year contract to DC Even simple things like travelling to away games the night before. Plus they have a good reputation all over the world. Would they ruin that by selling the mem, I doubt any business person would. Would cost them more in the long run. Plus why is Wael still attending games when he can, standing with the fans if he does not care and is looking for a way out? Heard of thinking the worst, but some of these posts are way over the top!! I understand that the Colony scheme has been scaled back to two pitches and a changing room block which was in the existing plans for the site granted 5 years ago.
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Post by PessimistGas on Nov 22, 2017 15:18:58 GMT
Have they stopped talking or if there just nothing new to report? Last we heard they are hoping to start Colony in February. It is not February yet, so unless it has changed, why would we hear anything different? With the mem, it was always going to take time. Meetings were held with local residents and I thought people went in to see what they can do with it. It was obvious it would take ages to plan, so I wasn't expecting to hear anything this year. Why bother doing all this, if they are looking to sell? So do fans want an update, saying the same as before??? Not sure what fans were expecting and why there are more rumours than ever. You can only look on what has been done. Colony land bought Development side set up Improved back room staff including coaching set up, medical team etc More money spent on a player since Tilson and how many years ago was that? 5 year contract to DC Even simple things like travelling to away games the night before. Plus they have a good reputation all over the world. Would they ruin that by selling the mem, I doubt any business person would. Would cost them more in the long run. Plus why is Wael still attending games when he can, standing with the fans if he does not care and is looking for a way out? Heard of thinking the worst, but some of these posts are way over the top!! I understand that the Colony scheme has been scaled back to two pitches and a changing room block which was in the existing plans for the site granted 5 years ago. The promise of a Category 2 Academy has gone for a Burton then?
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Post by a more piratey game on Nov 22, 2017 15:36:48 GMT
I understand that the Colony scheme has been scaled back to two pitches and a changing room block which was in the existing plans for the site granted 5 years ago. The promise of a Category 2 Academy has gone for a Burton then? so it would seem logical that the 'hurdles' which are 'complicated' regarding the Mem (or words to that effect that Wael is quoted as having used in the bar) is shorthand for 'no more family money, at the very least for the time being' the outside investor thing seems to be growing longer legs, and adds up with DC reputedly getting itchy feet, because otherwise Wael's progress looks to have ground to a very slow speed indeed let's hope he's making progress
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 24, 2017 19:22:18 GMT
Daniel300380 - have a listen to the full unedited Geoff 20Man interview with Darrell Clarke and take it from there. I've also got some really bad news about the tooth fairy... I listened to it. DC said on a number of occasions that the board were working hard behind the scenes. He said they were working hard on the training ground. He said he didn't know what was happening with it himself, why would he. He said we need the training ground and ground. All stuff we already new. He was with Wael and Hamer after the interview at the development game. He would have known that before speaking. Think some fans choose to only listen to part of the interview lol Hi Daniel 300380. I'm not winding you up. But post-Hamer interview do you remain positive about our owners, their 'strategy' and the direction of our Football Club? It's just one thing after another at the moment... what with the tooth fairy and now I'm hearing some serious sh*t about Father Christmas...
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