Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Feb 10, 2018 11:20:00 GMT
My memories are of 90s football when we were good. When teams like Spain and barca dominate with their 5 foot 7 players given full protection from any beastly tackles, while diving on contact, you have to admit the game has been changed to their benefit. Iniesta wouldn’t have made it in 90s. Players like Gaza and shearer did. I think it was deliberate - as Xavi said, our game borrows from rugby, theirs from basketball. However, the world, outside of a small clique of med and Latin countries are absolutely clear which they prefer, with the Football league being the most exported on planet Earth. Plus, do you remember how many times we got cheated - hand of god, sol Campbell’s goal, Rooney kicked off the pitch then red carded when he lost his temper. What about when UEFA fixed the 2009 semi final, Chelsea were not getting a pen that night because they didn’t want 2 vonsequetive all English finals. Barca knew, they knew no penalty would be given, otherwise they wouldn’t have hacked and hand balled so much.The worrying this is I think you actually believe that! I can think of a few times decisions didn't go England's way, although I suspect we have benefited from 'wrong' decisions as well. Some might even say we cheated our way to the World Cup win! I think people tend to remember when they feel cheated and conveniently forget the times they may have benefited from cheating. VAR will kill much of this kind of discussion. (One of the greatest debate was over that goal scored in 1966; unless it can be shown that there was some kind of collusion between England and the linesman, which during the Cold War would have been unlikely, then England can not be accused of cheating.)
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 11:31:38 GMT
The worrying this is I think you actually believe that! I can think of a few times decisions didn't go England's way, although I suspect we have benefited from 'wrong' decisions as well. Some might even say we cheated our way to the World Cup win! I think people tend to remember when they feel cheated and conveniently forget the times they may have benefited from cheating. VAR will kill much of this kind of discussion. (One of the greatest debate was over that goal scored in 1966; unless it can be shown that there was some kind of collusion between England and the linesman, which during the Cold War would have been unlikely, then England can not be accused of cheating.) Nothing to do with collusion between England and the lino, the bloke was from the Soviet Union and was being asked to make a decision about Germany, there may have been a minor skirmish a few years earlier which resulted in over 20 million of his fellow countrymen dieing, maybe he had a tear in his eye for his fallen Comrades, and that affected his vision?
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Rex
Predictions League
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Post by Rex on Feb 10, 2018 11:42:37 GMT
VAR will kill much of this kind of discussion. (One of the greatest debate was over that goal scored in 1966; unless it can be shown that there was some kind of collusion between England and the linesman, which during the Cold War would have been unlikely, then England can not be accused of cheating.) Nothing to do with collusion between England and the lino, the bloke was from the Soviet Union and was being asked to make a decision about Germany, there may have been a minor skirmish a few years earlier which resulted in over 20 million of his fellow countrymen dieing, maybe he had a tear in his eye for his fallen Comrades, and that affected his vision? Or he just gave what he believed to be the correct decision.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 12:28:51 GMT
Nothing to do with collusion between England and the lino, the bloke was from the Soviet Union and was being asked to make a decision about Germany, there may have been a minor skirmish a few years earlier which resulted in over 20 million of his fellow countrymen dieing, maybe he had a tear in his eye for his fallen Comrades, and that affected his vision? Or he just gave what he believed to be the correct decision. I like my version better He said that he didn't even consider where the ball landed as he thought it hit the roof of the net and then came down towards the line and out.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Feb 10, 2018 12:30:05 GMT
Or he just gave what he believed to be the correct decision. I like my version better He said that he didn't even consider where the ball landed as he thought it hit the roof of the net and then came down towards the line and out. That would have been that pre match vodka.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 12:38:53 GMT
I like my version better He said that he didn't even consider where the ball landed as he thought it hit the roof of the net and then came down towards the line and out. That would have been that pre match vodka. If you've ever been on a long haul flight out of Moscow you'll know, they can be like a stag do for the first couple of hours, that duty free vodka kicks in and away you go, then there's a load of snoring for a few hours They do like their vodka
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,261
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 10, 2018 17:31:39 GMT
Agreed - that was actually such a fantastic moment that it almost made the whole farce worthwhile.
I was hoping it might lead to a domino effect of experimental tactics with manager's showing the competition the middle finger - playing the goalie up front for a bit a-la David James, reprising the WM formation, stationing all 11 players on the goal line etc.
WM won the World Cup for us (the formation, although GH was good.) TB helped: www.goal.com/en/news/11522/baku-2015/2015/01/29/8338942/tofiq-bahramov-the-story-of-footballs-most-famous-linesmanright no more, back to the thread. Sorry but am obviously very late on this but what is WM. I fully admit to not being one who pays interest in formations. I just enjoy entertaining football is all
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 17:44:13 GMT
Sorry but am obviously very late on this but what is WM. I fully admit to not being one who pays interest in formations. I just enjoy entertaining football is all it's an old fashioned way of describing 3-2-2-3 formation from the days before 'midfielders'.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Feb 10, 2018 17:56:12 GMT
Sorry but am obviously very late on this but what is WM. I fully admit to not being one who pays interest in formations. I just enjoy entertaining football is all it's an old fashioned way of describing 3-2-2-3 formation from the days before 'midfielders'. Just as an aside at my junior school (1972-1976) we lined up 2-3-5 as did every other school we played against, yet this formation would already have been abandoned by professionals, I wonder why it was kept on at kids level?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,261
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 10, 2018 18:14:31 GMT
We WERE good until the skill set required was changed, via rule changes, from strength which favours Northern Europeans, to speed and skill, which favours smaller players. Since FIFA was ruled by central and Southern Europeans, we’ve seen rule changes which almost prohibit tackling. International and European football has almost outlawed the sliding tackle, and the open disdain for English long ball football is pretty open. Sepp wouldn’t even admit football is a British game. As for the armies, I am talking about the armies of Europe who we defeated near constantly for 1000 years. Also, at times purely because we wanted independence from roman rule, to the extent they sent an armada to return us to papal rule, which we defeated. No wonder once again a lot of them don’t want us leaving Europe. I strongly suspect that the fact we could proudly boast we can be the FL, because we were the first and invented association football rankles with Europe and changing to the EFL, to achieve parity, has something to do with that. Why would you give up that crown Jewell? This wasn’t anything to do with the pre 87 football thing. Note I don’t even consider myself a nationalist. I have nothing to do with anything. I was just born here. The agenda I can see though, I was born English and it feels that identity is something which is being messed with for reasons unknown. We have inaccurate history taught in schools and on TV, and it’s because some people have an agenda to “progress” and change our views and identity. I just resent that, I don’t want to cheat beat over a Union Jack. The Hungarians gave us a good going over in the early 50s, I don't think that was down to any rule changes, although it could well have been because of our insular attitude that it was 'our' game and we couldn't learn anything from it, hence no participation in the first couple of World Cups. As for our armies, you do realise the French beat us pretty comprehensively in 1066, we're all foreigners now After king Alfie had fought battles just days before and had to march our own boys many many miles to even get to fight. I love history, those who ignore it do so st their own peril. Have you been watching the blonde woman doing her programmes, I forget her name but she is a breath of fresh air from Starkey. I seem to think her name is Lucy wossname
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,261
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 10, 2018 18:24:54 GMT
it's an old fashioned way of describing 3-2-2-3 formation from the days before 'midfielders'. Just as an aside at my junior school (1972-1976) we lined up 2-3-5 as did every other school we played against, yet this formation would already have been abandoned by professionals, I wonder why it was kept on at kids level? 4-3-3 at at at Falconride. When I went to the Rovers youth trials, at Hambrook, I seriously didn’t know where to stand let alone play. Good old Colin Dobson, instead of ridiculing me and saying I was crap, asked gently do you have another sport you enjoy and are good at ? Lol. I made it past the first trial though but failed at the 2nd match of 3. I did have the honour of having Ollie, Curle played too yet I’m told ended up at city, Phil kite played. Ollie was playing fullback then if my memory serves me well. In honesty I knew I wasn’t good enough but that never stopped me trying. I’m sure my brother stitched me up by his advice of just running after every ball 😂. I did play for s/glos though but I couldn’t head a ball or use my left peg very well. Bristol Parkway had some very good players
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,261
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 10, 2018 18:39:14 GMT
Sorry but am obviously very late on this but what is WM. I fully admit to not being one who pays interest in formations. I just enjoy entertaining football is all it's an old fashioned way of describing 3-2-2-3 formation from the days before 'midfielders'. Thank you kind sir. I can’t imagine that. I guess it leave lots of space. I just wonder what WM actually means, if it is an abbreviation?
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Post by laughinggas on Feb 10, 2018 18:42:21 GMT
The points at each corner is showing the line up, if that makes sense
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Post by laughinggas on Feb 10, 2018 18:44:52 GMT
Two full backs One centre half Two half backs Two inside forwards Two Wingers One center forward
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Post by laughinggas on Feb 10, 2018 18:45:38 GMT
Two full backs One centre half Two half backs Two inside forwards Two Wingers One center forward And a goalie
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Feb 10, 2018 18:47:12 GMT
Just as an aside at my junior school (1972-1976) we lined up 2-3-5 as did every other school we played against, yet this formation would already have been abandoned by professionals, I wonder why it was kept on at kids level? 4-3-3 at at at Falconride. When I went to the Rovers youth trials, at Hambrook, I seriously didn’t know where to stand let alone play. Good old Colin Dobson, instead of ridiculing me and saying I was crap, asked gently do you have another sport you enjoy and are good at ? Lol. I made it past the first trial though but failed at the 2nd match of 3. I did have the honour of having Ollie, Curle played too yet I’m told ended up at city, Phil kite played. Ollie was playing fullback then if my memory serves me well. In honesty I knew I wasn’t good enough but that never stopped me trying. I’m sure my brother stitched me up by his advice of just running after every ball 😂. I did play for s/glos though but I couldn’t head a ball or use my left peg very well. Bristol Parkway had some very good players Keith was in my junior school team (Oldbury Court) he was absolutely outstanding then. He did indeed end up with City then, it caused a bit of a storm when he came into school with all the references to Rovers on his haversack and been crossed out and replaced by City, although of course he did actually start his professional career with us.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 20:15:53 GMT
Two full backs One centre half Two half backs Two inside forwards Two Wingers One center forward And a goalie What about the revie formation or the English wingless wonders under ramsey.there is nothing new in football today that hasn't been tried at sometime or another over the last hundred years
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Post by laughinggas on Feb 10, 2018 20:26:42 GMT
What about the revie formation or the English wingless wonders under ramsey.there is nothing new in football today that hasn't been tried at sometime or another over the last hundred years The Alison wheel he tried with us?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 21:14:40 GMT
What about the revie formation or the English wingless wonders under ramsey.there is nothing new in football today that hasn't been tried at sometime or another over the last hundred years The Alison wheel he tried with us? Which proves my point there is nothing new in football
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Feb 10, 2018 21:25:12 GMT
Lucy Worsley.
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