basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Jan 19, 2017 14:07:20 GMT
Will Puddy,in recent times Will has had some criticism,some i hear have gone what some may consider too far.
We all have opinions on football and players.Some of us criticise Rovers players,others hardly ever do,some never do,apparently considering it unhelpful to the cause,a 'blasphemy'.
I do criticise players (i have done Will Puddy),it is'nt a personal attack,just my opinion on them as footballers.I praise them too.
We also have to consider Gasheads pay their hard earned money and if they feel they could be getting more for their money they are entitled to say so.We can see the difference between good,average and bad performance in any particular game/s.
I think to have your say on Rovers is all part of the show and some of us might eventually explode if not allowed to occassionally let off steam.
Just wondered if Gasheads feel there are lines in the sand and at what point 'your line' can be found?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 19, 2017 14:22:32 GMT
I will give my opinion and sometimes be critical but NEVER EVER on a match day. I always give the team my full support and I think anyone who abuses our own players while at a game needs to take a good look at themselves. I hear that some knuckle dragging idiot or,idiots took it upon themselves to spit at Will Puddy at our last game. I think ANY so called fan who thinks this is ok should be banned for life. It's disgusting and was something we had the moral high ground on, over them lot down the road up until this. I would hope the club are doing the utmost to identify those responsible. It's disgusting and has no place at any sport. I was absolutely gutted when I heard about this
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 14:24:13 GMT
If a player isn't good enough, the manager should get the criticism. If a player is but doesn't try the player should get the criticism. That's my general rule. What people tend to over look is the fact Footballers are human beings, they can have good weeks, they can have bad weeks. Things can go on away from the work place that does effect performance, so even when criticising a player "not trying" I won't go too far. It's a tough old world out there and folk should try to be a bit nicer to each other.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 14:24:16 GMT
Although I would not refer to myself as a 'gashead' I think that shouting abuse at Rovers players at the game ( or spitting at them,if that happened) is out of order. That is one of the reasons that I didnt like standing in the North enclosure at Eastville,on the rare occasions that I went in there I heard abuse and even vile abuse shouted at Rovers players. I usually just comment to the people that I am stood with,talking with people in the pub or on the train/car home I might criticise players or on the Forum but at the game I try to be supportive.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jan 19, 2017 14:33:20 GMT
I would be happy to stand in front of DC and tell him my thoughts on recent teams/games/players and "hope" he would give me decent replies...before i shat myself
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 15:00:08 GMT
I try not to criticise current Rovers players online, and if I do I wouldn't write anything I wouldn't be prepared to say to them in person.
Sometimes I offer 'constructive' criticism at matches, but shouting abuse is just idiotic. I will occasionally offer a negative opinion e.g. "Matty that was s***!"etc, but only if I think it deserved it, and I'd never attack the player directly e.g. "Matty you are s***!".
If I really don't like a player, I try to wait until they've left before saying so.
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Jan 19, 2017 15:10:39 GMT
The manager picks the team, formation and tactics and on many occasions players have been played out of position or in a formation which does not suit them - it's not their fault sometimes that they have bad games.
However, most crowd members will have seen a player many times over a season and if they feel he is not worth his place then the forum or the bar is where that should be stated, not from the terrace loud enough for the player to hear and lose even more self-confidence. Surely a manager can spot bad players, yet funnily enough some managers persist with disliked players.
If a player is blatantly not putting in a shift though, I think he is fair game for pelters.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Jan 19, 2017 15:42:19 GMT
It's all about strengths and weaknesses like any walk of life. Successful organisations know how to get the best out of their human resources. Everybody's good at some things and not so good at others. Nobody's ever totally crap. To call a footballer crap is cringeworthy because only football coaches know if a player's had a good game or not by the way they've followed their instructions. Fans don't usually see the off-the-ball work footballers put in covering and chasing, etc. The things they're instructed to do as opposed to the off-the-cuff show pony stuff that everyone loves. Goalkeepers can't go missing as much as outfield players so their mistakes show at once. They need time to work on their strengths and weaknesses because that's the only way a coach is going to see whether they're progressing or whether they've hit their true level. The question to ask is has Puddy progressed with the time he's had between the sticks or is he still making the same sort of mistakes?
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simonj
Archie Stevens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 817
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Post by simonj on Jan 19, 2017 15:44:59 GMT
Where I stand its Ellis that gets dogs abuse, by a handful, and they're old timers, but give a lot of loud stuff which the lad would definitely hear. Id boo a dreadful seeming players disinterested performance, but to individuals match day, no chance. On here to have a view I'm alright with that and doing that.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 16:06:40 GMT
Where I stand its Ellis that gets dogs abuse, by a handful, and they're old timers, but give a lot of loud stuff which the lad would definitely hear. Id boo a dreadful seeming players disinterested performance, but to individuals match day, no chance. On here to have a view I'm alright with that and doing that. The stick Ellis gets is racism pure and simple.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 16:45:03 GMT
Where I stand its Ellis that gets dogs abuse, by a handful, and they're old timers, but give a lot of loud stuff which the lad would definitely hear. Id boo a dreadful seeming players disinterested performance, but to individuals match day, no chance. On here to have a view I'm alright with that and doing that. The stick Ellis gets is racism pure and simple. The only racist comment that I have heard shouted at a match in the last few years was at Portsmouth a few seasons ago and that was aimed at Mohammed.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jan 19, 2017 17:06:03 GMT
My line drawn is never to boo players (I didn't boo JJ either). I am guilty of giving officials some, but only when they make glaring errors. Someone behind me in East Terrace has a loud voice and very witty. Brilliant! Some lino's surely can hear. That's fair game.
I have shouted 'rubbish' at an awful pass or shot on occasions, but very rarely and out of frustration.
I understand we are all different, I find sometimes a bit crass how fellow Gas express themselves, but hey their pound sterling is worth the same as mine, so I've got as much right to remain silent. And seethe inside sometimes.
The abuse Zebrowski received was too harsh in my opinion. It's a shame, because we can be cleverer than that and come up with genuine witty put downs. I prefer that.
Also would say this is nothing new. Like someone above said, North Enclosure was sometimes vile to Steve White....I understood why....but jeez, he's gotta be at least the 11th best player on the pitch, right? I always liked SW.....until he turned inbred roundabout.
Also, it's worth noting that I think we go very kind on our own. Even Sheeeeed mates squirm sometimes at their own player bating culture. It can be vile at times down the Gate. Always has been, always will be.
I know sometimes we have no moral high ground but I'm grateful for small mercies and a Rovers home match nay be smaller than south Bris, it's also generally more merciful..
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jan 19, 2017 18:11:09 GMT
Following principles for me;
1. Never abuse or shout negative things at a Rovers player on the pitch. I'm only prepared to shout positive or encouraging things - I'm a supporter, the clue to matchday behaviour is in the name. Doesn't mean you have to act like a saint and never express any frustration or annoyance but the targetting of individual players is out for me.
2. Comment on player's ability or performance is fair game on forum's or in the pub etc. Comment on a player's personality or character that is inferred from nothing more than their performance on the pitch is completely out in my view. I have no right to cast aspirtion on a player being 'lazy' or 'not caring' as I can't get into his head. There could be a 1000 reasons a player underperforms but people tend to jump character flaws in a way that would probably utterly infuriate if it was ever done to them. So 'x didn't track back enough' or 'x didn't put in enough tackles' is fair game. But 'x is a lazy player' based on the fact he didn't do those things is completely unaccepable for me. You just can't make that assumptions - it could be an ability thing, it could be an injury, it could be instructions, maybe he's distracted etc but people so often jump to the assumptions that a player has performed badly because of some personal character fault. I really don't like that and I think it is very, very rarely accurate.
3. Give players the benefit of the doubt. Follows on from 2 a bit. It's amazing how often a guy that puts in consistently bad performance then gets considered to be somehow a bad person whereas a guy that puts in good performances must therefore be a good person. There is no correlation between the 2 but people often want there to be. So I generally think all players are hard working professionals - which is what I want them to be.
4. Anything that happens outside of the public performance I've paid to watch I am not interested in. I have no right at all to comment on anything a player gets up to other than what they do on the pitch - it's just none of my business. I'm a football fan not voyeur and the only bit of their lives I have any right to judge in the slightist is the bit that happens between 3PM-5PM on a saturday afternoon that I have paid to watch.
5. Recognise that I am a fan and only a fan. I have no professional knowledge of football at all therefore I'm pretty confident that the manager/the coaches and the players know far more about the reality of the game than I ever will. I comment on football like I comment on films -I know what I like and I know what I think it good and bad, but I'm not going to pretend I have a clue about how or why it work in reality.
Inevitably I have violated all of these at some point though....
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,430
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 19, 2017 18:19:43 GMT
Everyone has a right to an opinion and to be able to express it on a forum but where it becomes abusive, racist, personal it becomes plain unacceptable. Nearly every player comes in for this criticism and I guess so long as it doesn't cross the line it's just about OK. But what really gets me is when players are subjected to posts which get personal without being abusive and when some posters seem to enjoy players that have failed, or who are on a bad run. Some posters seem to really enjoy players failing. Sometimes players who are seen not to be good enough get criticism which imo goes OTT. Recently I've defended Jake Gosling from some real personal posts which were OK but seemed to disrespect him and his efforts over the years. The trouble is with some posters they appear to have very short memories based on the current run and seem not to see the bigger picture. I can accept players are moved on because they are thought hot to be good enough but they have all usually played a part in success and feel they should be thanked for that. Others I know don't feel that way and express it forcibly! Players who are good enough today will be turned on in months time and will be said not to be good enough. Tom L was the best defender ever a few months ago, now, some posters think he's not good enough! Players nowadays have it tougher when it comes to all the social steams that really lays into them, but I can remember being at Eastville in the enclosures and hearing some real dogs abuse at the players. The tote end was too far away for players to hear but you got some stuff there as well. When I see the abuse Will Puddy and our loan keepers have got I wonder how these forums would have reacted to some of our old keepers from some time ago. I loved Dick Sheppard and was there when he got his injury. I was also there in December 1974 when he made his return after two years out and made two or three major errors at Eastville in his first game back, the injury had just destroyed his confidence from which he never recovered. Unfortunately it was against City and they won 4-1!! Today I'm afraid it would have gone mental but then we all felt so sorry for him. It was his last match for us and to this day I feel sympathy about it. I would never criticise him but pretty sure others would. I presume anyone who posts on here will have limits beyond which they won't go. I never openly criticise players and never say anything I wouldn't say to someone's face. I try to think that all our players are special and once they pull on the quarters become special. I am a BRFC supporter and I always support our players on the pitch. I can see where we need improvement and will say what areas we need to strengthen but I will never criticise individuals because I don't know what is going on behind the scenes, I don't know what the manager has told that player to do and I don't think my criticism will make an iotas difference. And let's face it we're all human beings and need to remain so even when we are frustrated. UTG!
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,430
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 19, 2017 18:23:00 GMT
Following principles for me; 1. Never abuse or shout negative things at a Rovers player on the pitch. I'm only prepared to shout positive or encouraging things - I'm a supporter, the clue to matchday behaviour is in the name. Doesn't mean you have to act like a saint and never express any frustration or annoyance but the targetting of individual players is out for me. 2. Comment on player's ability or performance is fair game on forum's or in the pub etc. Comment on a player's personality or character that is inferred from nothing more than their performance on the pitch is completely out in my view. I have no right to cast aspirtion on a player being 'lazy' or 'not caring' as I can't get into his head. There could be a 1000 reasons a player underperforms but people tend to jump character flaws in a way that would probably utterly infuriate if it was ever done to them. So 'x didn't track back enough' or 'x didn't put in enough tackles' is fair game. But 'x is a lazy player' based on the fact he didn't do those things is completely unaccepable for me. You just can't make that assumptions - it could be an ability thing, it could be an injury, it could be instructions, maybe he's distracted etc but people so often jump to the assumptions that a player has performed badly because of some personal character fault. I really don't like that and I think it is very, very rarely accurate. 3. Give players the benefit of the doubt. Follows on from 2 a bit. It's amazing how often a guy that puts in consistently bad performance then gets considered to be somehow a bad person whereas a guy that puts in good performances must therefore be a good person. There is no correlation between the 2 but people often want there to be. So I generally think all players are hard working professionals - which is what I want them to be. 4. Anything that happens outside of the public performance I've paid to watch I am not interested in. I have no right at all to comment on anything a player gets up to other than what they do on the pitch - it's just none of my business. I'm a football fan not voyeur and the only bit of their lives I have any right to judge in the slightist is the bit that happens between 3PM-5PM on a saturday afternoon that I have paid to watch. 5. Recognise that I am a fan and only a fan. I have no professional knowledge of football at all therefore I'm pretty confident that the manager/the coaches and the players know far more about the reality of the game than I ever will. I comment on football like I comment on films -I know what I like and I know what I think it good and bad, but I'm not going to pretend I have a clue about how or why it work in reality. Inevitably I have violated all of these at some point though.... Well said Irish. You sum it up very well!
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Jan 19, 2017 20:43:18 GMT
Where I stand its Ellis that gets dogs abuse, by a handful, and they're old timers, but give a lot of loud stuff which the lad would definitely hear. Id boo a dreadful seeming players disinterested performance, but to individuals match day, no chance. On here to have a view I'm alright with that and doing that. The stick Ellis gets is racism pure and simple. Interesting you should say that because there are words reserved for black players that you wouldn't hear about white players. Showboating, attitude are two that spring to mind.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 21:49:52 GMT
The stick Ellis gets is racism pure and simple. Interesting you should say that because there are words reserved for black players that you wouldn't hear about white players. Showboating, attitude are two that spring to mind. "Beast" always springs to mind.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 21:53:31 GMT
Interesting you should say that because there are words reserved for black players that you wouldn't hear about white players. Showboating, attitude are two that spring to mind. "Beast" always springs to mind. I disagree, and so do Jon Parkin and Brian Jensen.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 22:25:10 GMT
"Beast" always springs to mind. I disagree, and so do Jon Parkin and Brian Jensen. It's a term reserved for fat lads and black footballers.
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Jan 19, 2017 23:01:54 GMT
I recently used 'showboating' about Chris Lines and Billy Bodin. How black are they?
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