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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 20, 2016 13:55:52 GMT
Difference is a football manager, like a player is usually on a fixed term contract, if it's a two year contract he's never going to earn more than 2 years wages, unless his contract is ever extended. There's a possibility he won't ever get another job but surely that's the risk anybody takes when moving into football management rather than a "normal" job, plus most probably do get contracts elsewhere anyway. I was amazed to see Ian Atkin's was head hunted by Villa from Everton recently as assumed he'd left the game after his time at Rovers Ian Atkins managed Torquay United after leaving us and kept them in the football league. He then took up scouting roles at Sunderland and Everton but I didn't know he had joined Villa so thanks for the update. Edit: Ian Atkins took action against Rovers following his dismissal but I believe it was settled out of court. Maybe the clubs' case wasn't watertight? Na....silly me....what a ridiculous idea!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 14:06:24 GMT
So lets take this a step further,if your boss is not impressed with how you are doing your job,what does he do? You are called to a meeting and told what needs to improve and given a time limit in which to do so,if after that you haven't improved you are given a final warning and if you still do not improve hen out you go,this can take at least 6 months. So how does calling a football manager into the office,telling him you are not happy and sacking him,paying a maximum of 1 years salary.He may never get another job in the game so where is the law of the land there to protect his rights. If this happened to you and you are in a union can you imagine the reaction,especially if you are 55 plus knowing the likelihood of you getting another job,the compensation is meagre so how can you say football is covered by eemployment laws They are contractors. They get their contracts settled, in accordance with the terms of their contracts. Meagre? A year's salary is meagre? Staff below the level of players and managers/assistants/coaches at 1st team level are on contracts those at academy level are just employees with no contractual protection.As for a years salary not being meagre try losing your job at say 55 ,getting 20k before tax as a pay off .if you are lucky,apply for countless jobs only to be told you are too old then try to live on unemployment pay until you reach pensionable age,whatever that may be when you are due to retire,then come back and tell me it is a good deal.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 14:08:07 GMT
So lets take this a step further,if your boss is not impressed with how you are doing your job,what does he do? You are called to a meeting and told what needs to improve and given a time limit in which to do so,if after that you haven't improved you are given a final warning and if you still do not improve hen out you go,this can take at least 6 months. So how does calling a football manager into the office,telling him you are not happy and sacking him,paying a maximum of 1 years salary.He may never get another job in the game so where is the law of the land there to protect his rights. If this happened to you and you are in a union can you imagine the reaction,especially if you are 55 plus knowing the likelihood of you getting another job,the compensation is meagre so how can you say football is covered by employment laws I assume the LMA is a union Its a toothless association that no club respects
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 14:45:47 GMT
I assume the LMA is a union Its a toothless association that no club respects They represented Ian Atkins when he won his claim against us.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 20, 2016 15:05:37 GMT
They are contractors. They get their contracts settled, in accordance with the terms of their contracts. Meagre? A year's salary is meagre? Staff below the level of players and managers/assistants/coaches at 1st team level are on contracts those at academy level are just employees with no contractual protection.As for a years salary not being meagre try losing your job at say 55 ,getting 20k before tax as a pay off .if you are lucky,apply for countless jobs only to be told you are too old then try to live on unemployment pay until you reach pensionable age,whatever that may be when you are due to retire,then come back and tell me it is a good deal. You seem to be going off on a tangent. If Walsh was an employee, rather than a contractor, then he would have had an employment contract. He would also have had the same employment rights as any employee of any business. The procedures in the document I linked to earlier therefore stand. Mate, I have qualifications and 17 years experience in this stuff. I'm currently sat in a company pension funds conference!
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 20, 2016 15:33:38 GMT
Its a toothless association that no club respects They represented Ian Atkins when he won his claim against us. Did he win his claim or was it settled out of court? Two different answers on one thread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 15:56:16 GMT
They represented Ian Atkins when he won his claim against us. Did he win his claim or was it settled out of court? Two different answers on one thread. Settled out of court with the club making the bonus payments which he was claiming.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 13:36:02 GMT
Staff below the level of players and managers/assistants/coaches at 1st team level are on contracts those at academy level are just employees with no contractual protection.As for a years salary not being meagre try losing your job at say 55 ,getting 20k before tax as a pay off .if you are lucky,apply for countless jobs only to be told you are too old then try to live on unemployment pay until you reach pensionable age,whatever that may be when you are due to retire,then come back and tell me it is a good deal. You seem to be going off on a tangent. If Walsh was an employee, rather than a contractor, then he would have had an employment contract. He would also have had the same employment rights as any employee of any business. The procedures in the document I linked to earlier therefore stand. Mate, I have qualifications and 17 years experience in this stuff. I'm currently sat in a company pension funds conference! Very unprofessional of you to be reading and corresponding on a form when you are meant to be in a conference on something as important as a pension fund. 17 years experience,not bad,a third of mine ,you got a long way to go
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 16:17:18 GMT
You seem to be going off on a tangent. If Walsh was an employee, rather than a contractor, then he would have had an employment contract. He would also have had the same employment rights as any employee of any business. The procedures in the document I linked to earlier therefore stand. Mate, I have qualifications and 17 years experience in this stuff. I'm currently sat in a company pension funds conference! Very unprofessional of you to be reading and corresponding on a form when you are meant to be in a conference on something as important as a pension fund. 17 years experience,not bad,a third of mine ,you got a long way to go his experience is law which you are discussing , your experience is alledgedly in being a scout
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 16:32:27 GMT
No allegedly about it but prior to that I was a professional with a first division now premier club.i will check his remarks with my brother who owns his own law firm in reading
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 16:35:22 GMT
Besides which I was discussing his professional ism of being on a forum whilst at a conference discussing pension funds which is more important than this forum,if I was in any sort of meeting my phone and tablet would be off not trawling this forum
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 16:46:22 GMT
Besides which I was discussing his professional ism of being on a forum whilst at a conference discussing pension funds which is more important than this forum,if I was in any sort of meeting my phone and tablet would be off not trawling this forum lunch break ?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 17:12:25 GMT
Besides which I was discussing his professional ism of being on a forum whilst at a conference discussing pension funds which is more important than this forum,if I was in any sort of meeting my phone and tablet would be off not trawling this forum lunch break ? At 15.05 very late lunch
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 22:53:34 GMT
Very unprofessional of you to be reading and corresponding on a form when you are meant to be in a conference on something as important as a pension fund. 17 years experience,not bad,a third of mine ,you got a long way to go his experience is law which you are discussing , your experience is alledgedly in being a scout Then again, his experienced analysis was that the gossip amongst his mates at Derby is that Kelle Roos is useless. Maybe football has moved on.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Oct 24, 2016 7:15:33 GMT
You seem to be going off on a tangent. If Walsh was an employee, rather than a contractor, then he would have had an employment contract. He would also have had the same employment rights as any employee of any business. The procedures in the document I linked to earlier therefore stand. Mate, I have qualifications and 17 years experience in this stuff. I'm currently sat in a company pension funds conference! Very unprofessional of you to be reading and corresponding on a form when you are meant to be in a conference on something as important as a pension fund. 17 years experience,not bad,a third of mine ,you got a long way to go Coffee break! Not that it's any of your business whatsoever.
Relevant experience to the situation we are discussing?
Anyway - care to actually engage with the argument? I believe that the main disagreement is your statement that employment law is not applicable to football clubs. You've been given a number of examples where employees of football clubs have taken their employers to tribunal, showing that employment law is applicable to football clubs. Do you therefore retract your statement?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 14:19:02 GMT
Not at all I know a number of managers who have been given a moments notice to clear their desk,been made a derisory offer and told accept it or your name will be blackened and you will never work in the game again. Chairmen of football clubs in the main are very close and exchange information on why this,that or the other happened,hence some managers disappear without trace,regardless of their ability,employment laws didn't help them. As for the statement of many going to a tribunal it is a very small percentage and I bet very few if any are currently still working in the game As for the statement about Roos I was reporting what I was told and it was not that he was useless but they did not rate him as a championship standard keeper
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 14:48:49 GMT
Very unprofessional of you to be reading and corresponding on a form when you are meant to be in a conference on something as important as a pension fund. 17 years experience,not bad,a third of mine ,you got a long way to go Coffee break! Not that it's any of your business whatsoever.
Relevant experience to the situation we are discussing?
Anyway - care to actually engage with the argument? I believe that the main disagreement is your statement that employment law is not applicable to football clubs. You've been given a number of examples where employees of football clubs have taken their employers to tribunal, showing that employment law is applicable to football clubs. Do you therefore retract your statement?
I would have thought that a short 10 minute coffee break in a very important meeting concerning the future pension rights of employees at your company would have been more profitably spent reviewing what has been discussed and what your imput would be to ensure that the fund was being run in a right and proper fashion rather than go onto an insignificant forum
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Oct 24, 2016 15:13:27 GMT
Coffee break! Not that it's any of your business whatsoever.
Relevant experience to the situation we are discussing?
Anyway - care to actually engage with the argument? I believe that the main disagreement is your statement that employment law is not applicable to football clubs. You've been given a number of examples where employees of football clubs have taken their employers to tribunal, showing that employment law is applicable to football clubs. Do you therefore retract your statement?
I would have thought that a short 10 minute coffee break in a very important meeting concerning the future pension rights of employees at your company would have been more profitably spent reviewing what has been discussed and what your imput would be to ensure that the fund was being run in a right and proper fashion rather than go onto an insignificant forumAn ''insignificant forum'' you say? Wash yer mouth out.
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Post by manchestergas on Oct 24, 2016 15:26:30 GMT
Not at all I know a number of managers who have been given a moments notice to clear their desk,been made a derisory offer and told accept it or your name will be blackened and you will never work in the game again. Chairmen of football clubs in the main are very close and exchange information on why this,that or the other happened,hence some managers disappear without trace,regardless of their ability,employment laws didn't help them. As for the statement of many going to a tribunal it is a very small percentage and I bet very few if any are currently still working in the game As for the statement about Roos I was reporting what I was told and it was not that he was useless but they did not rate him as a championship standard keeper Padstow, but that is no different to the 'real' world. Football is not outside employment law. Some employees get unfairly treated outside of football, some take legal action, some do not. Also whether you have strong employee rights largely depends on whether you were an employee for over 2 years. Less than 2 years your rights are very constrained. With regards treating employees unfairly, I worked for a very large law firm for 10 years (with a very large employment practice). in 2008 lawyers started 'disappearing' in the midst of the financial crisis. They were told to clear their desks and that was that. They got paid off and signed confidentiality agreements rather than going to tribunals. That is the way of the world and football is no different.
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Post by manchestergas on Oct 24, 2016 15:27:45 GMT
I would have thought that a short 10 minute coffee break in a very important meeting concerning the future pension rights of employees at your company would have been more profitably spent reviewing what has been discussed and what your imput would be to ensure that the fund was being run in a right and proper fashion rather than go onto an insignificant forumAn ''insignificant forum'' you say? Wash yer mouth out. I think Faggoty and Padstow should swap jobs for a week, I think they might enjoy each others jobs Well I would enjoy being a scout for a week anyway.
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