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Post by matealotblue on Jun 25, 2016 7:16:37 GMT
Ooh that was a bit heavy, sorry. Not at all. It was more thought out and considered than many points of view I have heard/seen on this subject.
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Post by matealotblue on Jun 25, 2016 7:17:37 GMT
I am absolutely gutted we will now be able to vote for who we want to govern us. Terrible turn of events. Ah yes. It's that failure of democracy wot did it guv!
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 25, 2016 9:06:20 GMT
Cameron would have won had the idiots at the EU not sent him home empty handed from ''negotiations''. Now those same people are trying to blame us for the result! Democracy or not, a tiny bit under half of the people who voted are unhappy with the outcome, hard to feel too positive about that. No, I'm not a 'remainer', just a bit miffed that it's come to this when it could easily have been avoided. spot on, the eu called our bluff and 52% stood up to them Another way of looking at it is that we "cut off our nose to spite our face"? At least the remaining 27 members will now be in a far stronger position because of Britain's actions. In the mean time we sit on the outside of a much improved "club"? Didn't we do well...
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Post by robblue on Jun 25, 2016 9:08:09 GMT
The great is back in GB the young don't understand it was voted leave for the future of everyone. I don't think it's going to change that much other than not being told what we can't do by brussels . By the way i'm 50 is that old and my son is 22 and daughter 19 they voted leave . On the football side maybe it will have an impact on players or will it impact on more things ? .
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toteend
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Post by toteend on Jun 25, 2016 9:10:27 GMT
I'm concerned rather than miffed. First past the post won, but it was hardly a convincing majority on such a major decision. Two choices, both campaigns based on guesswork - no surprise that opinion was split down the middle. One is a majority in a democracy Angas. Over 1.2 million is a huge majority. Opinion wasn't split down the middle it was 52% to 48%. It's far more democratic than the unelected bureaucrats that were running us.
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Post by fanatical on Jun 25, 2016 9:11:43 GMT
You don't divorce your partner over an argument, you compromise and mediate. The EU have already said they need to reform post Brexit. There is a lot of noise from the UK that they didn't truly want out. This is truly a failure of diplomacy. We couldn't work out compromise. we went in febuary and got short-thrift, Had Cameron gone to the EU and said 'I am recommending OUT unless you can offer significant reasons for me not to' he might have won the argument - but he was too weak.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jun 25, 2016 9:15:22 GMT
I'm concerned rather than miffed. First past the post won, but it was hardly a convincing majority on such a major decision. Two choices, both campaigns based on guesswork - no surprise that opinion was split down the middle. One is a majority in a democracy Angas. Over 1.2 million is a huge majority. Opinion wasn't split down the middle it was 52% to 48%. It's far more democratic than the unelected bureaucrats that were running us. But the irony there is how many of those that voted either way will say/moan only a third of the country votrd for the current Government? If 90% voted leave, the negotiations would still be in the hands of those so many apparently distrust and are robbing the poor to pay the rich anyway. So how much better off having voted out...
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 25, 2016 9:21:04 GMT
I'm concerned rather than miffed. First past the post won, but it was hardly a convincing majority on such a major decision. Two choices, both campaigns based on guesswork - no surprise that opinion was split down the middle. One is a majority in a democracy Angas. Over 1.2 million is a huge majority. Opinion wasn't split down the middle it was 52% to 48%. It's far more democratic than the unelected bureaucrats that were running us. But everything that was put forward by those "unelected bureaucrats" was voted on (and more often than not initiated by) by those who were voted for - the MEP's. That is a very similar process to the one we have in Britain where the initial work is also carried out by, yes you have guessed right, unelected bureaucrats and then voted on by MP's.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Jun 25, 2016 9:21:10 GMT
I'm concerned rather than miffed. First past the post won, but it was hardly a convincing majority on such a major decision. Two choices, both campaigns based on guesswork - no surprise that opinion was split down the middle. One is a majority in a democracy Angas. Over 1.2 million is a huge majority. Opinion wasn't split down the middle it was 52% to 48%. It's far more democratic than the unelected bureaucrats that were running us. 1.2 million is by no stretch of the mark a huge majority, given the amount eligible to vote (or indeed the amount that actually voted). However, it was enough to get 'Leave' over the line, and us 'Remainers' must accept that, and hope that given time we will be proved wrong, and it was the right decision to go. Crying over spilt milk doesn't help anyone, and I hope Britain out of Europe proves to be a success.
One more thing, was the turnout something like 72%? I find it depressing that is was considered a good turnout , surely to god it should have been 90% and over.
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Teigngas
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Post by Teigngas on Jun 25, 2016 9:23:04 GMT
One is a majority in a democracy Angas. Over 1.2 million is a huge majority. Opinion wasn't split down the middle it was 52% to 48%. It's far more democratic than the unelected bureaucrats that were running us. But the irony there is how many of those that voted either way will say/moan only a third of the country votrd for the current Government? If 90% voted leave, the negotiations would still be in the hands of those so many apparently distrust and are robbing the poor to pay the rich anyway. So how much better off having voted out...That`s the thing, nobody knows, despite what many will tell you. All any of us can do is vote for what we think will be for the best and then pray that we have got it right.
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toteend
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Post by toteend on Jun 25, 2016 9:23:24 GMT
No one has any preperation/contingency in place. We will get a PM no one elected who will be derided as Tory scum next week (Boris) by many. Scotland and NI want to look to break free I am not against leaving necessarily but all we had was a big slanging match with no facts and BS lies already admitted by that no mark Farage who will no doubt slag of Boris when he doesnt obtain the deals he thinks Britain should get No contingency? That's why there is such a thing as article 50 which allows time to disentangle all the bureaucratic crap to get out. Unelected Prime Minister? When did we vote for a Prime Minister? I vote for the party I think best to run the country. Scotland and NI? The scots have just voted to stay part of UK. It's the wicked witch who wants out. NI will never vote to leave whilst the Protestants are in the majority. Have you never read the history books? You really shouldn't believe all the crap. As for Farage? Like or loath him, he was far closer to the mood of the people than the idiots in the EU. The result proves that. By the way, the battle bus slogan was nowt to do with Farage. That was the other half of the out campaign , Boris etc.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jun 25, 2016 9:23:27 GMT
we went in febuary and got short-thrift, Had Cameron gone to the EU and said 'I am recommending OUT unless you can offer significant reasons for me not to' he might have won the argument - but he was too weak. He was deliberate in his actions as he (Cameron) and wanted no real change. He and alot of other politicians are on boards of big business or are non executive directors which have huge money and power interests to lobby EU. Mr Cameron wasn't going to EU to address and represent concerns the best interests of everyone whom wanted to leave (which have been roundly ignored for tears now), he went to make his own position in his own party more tenable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 9:35:21 GMT
we went in febuary and got short-thrift, Had Cameron gone to the EU and said 'I am recommending OUT unless you can offer significant reasons for me not to' he might have won the argument - but he was too weak. I suspect that he told them that the referendum could result in a leave decision and that he needed to take back a message that he could use to sell a Remain campaign. The failing here is from Brussels, not Cameron, he did what he could with the tools he was given to work with.
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toteend
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Post by toteend on Jun 25, 2016 9:37:16 GMT
but if everyone who did not vote voted remain we wouldn't be in this mess, assuming all those who wanted out voted. Only time will tell, but I'm truly shocked. And if everyone who did not vote voted LEAVE? assuming all those who wanted remain voted?
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jun 25, 2016 9:38:02 GMT
No one has any preperation/contingency in place. We will get a PM no one elected who will be derided as Tory scum next week (Boris) by many. Scotland and NI want to look to break free I am not against leaving necessarily but all we had was a big slanging match with no facts and BS lies already admitted by that no mark Farage who will no doubt slag of Boris when he doesnt obtain the deals he thinks Britain should get No contingency? That's why there is such a thing as article 50 which allows time to disentangle all the bureaucratic crap to get out. Unelected Prime Minister? When did we vote for a Prime Minister? I vote for the party I think best to run the country. Scotland and NI? The scots have just voted to stay part of UK. It's the wicked witch who wants out. NI will never vote to leave whilst the Protestants are in the majority. Have you never read the history books? You really shouldn't believe all the crap. As for Farage? Like or loath him, he was far closer to the mood of the people than the idiots in the EU. The result proves that. By the way, the battle bus slogan was nowt to do with Farage. That was the other half of the out campaign , Boris etc. Correct we dont vote for the PM, but the party. But part of that is you must have some confidence in the man or woman in charge to lead that party. Currently would you vote for Labour and allow Corbyn on the international stage negotiating all sorts. Not for me In or out. Great we will be able to do x,y,z but the same arguments will be had and there will be no EU to hide behind or moan about now So it is put up or shut up to this and future Governments. I hope that we get a similar turnout or more for the next general election as this refendum and people dont return to lieing politicians whats the point etc I would be interested to know how first timers and lapsed voters voted.
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toteend
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Post by toteend on Jun 25, 2016 9:45:22 GMT
He was deliberate in his actions as he (Cameron) and wanted no real change. He and alot of other politicians are on boards of big business or are non executive directors which have huge money and power interests to lobby EU. Mr Cameron wasn't going to EU to address and represent concerns the best interests of everyone whom wanted to leave (which have been roundly ignored for tears now), he went to make his own position in his own party more tenable. I'm no apologist for Cameron and I'm glad he's gone. But this is total crap reflected by your obvious political leanings. Cameron is not on the board of any company. He couldn't even be on the board of any family company if there was one. Ask the other idiot the chancellor. He owns a stake in his family business, and I don't object to that. But whilst in govt he has to distance himself from it. But he also is not on the board of any companies. Various members of the Labour Party have connections to select company's, but if they get into government, they have to step away from them because of possible bias.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jun 25, 2016 9:48:10 GMT
He was deliberate in his actions as he (Cameron) and wanted no real change. He and alot of other politicians are on boards of big business or are non executive directors which have huge money and power interests to lobby EU. Mr Cameron wasn't going to EU to address and represent concerns the best interests of everyone whom wanted to leave (which have been roundly ignored for tears now), he went to make his own position in his own party more tenable. I'm no apologist for Cameron and I'm glad he's gone. But this is total crap reflected by your obvious political leanings. Cameron is not on the board of any company. He couldn't even be on the board of any family company if there was one. Ask the other idiot the chancellor. He owns a stake in his family business, and I don't object to that. But whilst in govt he has to distance himself from it. But he also is not on the board of any companies. Various members of the Labour Party have connections to select company's, but if they get into government, they have to step away from them because of possible bias. I'm afraid you are quite naive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 9:52:15 GMT
No contingency? That's why there is such a thing as article 50 which allows time to disentangle all the bureaucratic crap to get out. Unelected Prime Minister? When did we vote for a Prime Minister? I vote for the party I think best to run the country. Scotland and NI? The scots have just voted to stay part of UK. It's the wicked witch who wants out. NI will never vote to leave whilst the Protestants are in the majority. Have you never read the history books? You really shouldn't believe all the crap. As for Farage? Like or loath him, he was far closer to the mood of the people than the idiots in the EU. The result proves that. By the way, the battle bus slogan was nowt to do with Farage. That was the other half of the out campaign , Boris etc. Correct we dont vote for the PM, but the party. But part of that is you must have some confidence in the man or woman in charge to lead that party. Currently would you vote for Labour and allow Corbyn on the international stage negotiating all sorts. Not for me In or out. Great we will be able to do x,y,z but the same arguments will be had and there will be no EU to hide behind or moan about now So it is put up or shut up to this and future Governments. I hope that we get a similar turnout or more for the next general election as this refendum and people dont return to lieing politicians whats the point etc I would be interested to know how first timers and lapsed voters voted. Good point, it does seem that if nothing else, we've stumbled on a topic which has reversed the trend and got youngsters engaged with politics. And that's a good thing.
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toteend
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Post by toteend on Jun 25, 2016 9:53:24 GMT
Currently would you vote for Labour and allow Corbyn on the international stage negotiating all sorts. Not for me In or out. Great we will be able to do x,y,z but the same arguments will be had and there will be no EU to hide behind or moan about now You are right. I wouldn't touch Corbyn with a barge pole. You are again right. Now there is no longer an EU to hide behind. That means if you get peed off with whoever is running us, you can help to vote him/her out. That's why I voted out. I want us to run ourselves. My family as many others, lost members in the last war, to let us stay free. For god sake don't let us just give it away, or they will have died for nothing. I for one have far more faith in this country than a lot of others seem to.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 25, 2016 9:58:12 GMT
He was deliberate in his actions as he (Cameron) and wanted no real change. He and alot of other politicians are on boards of big business or are non executive directors which have huge money and power interests to lobby EU. Mr Cameron wasn't going to EU to address and represent concerns the best interests of everyone whom wanted to leave (which have been roundly ignored for tears now), he went to make his own position in his own party more tenable. I'm no apologist for Cameron and I'm glad he's gone. But this is total crap reflected by your obvious political leanings. Cameron is not on the board of any company. He couldn't even be on the board of any family company if there was one. Ask the other idiot the chancellor. He owns a stake in his family business, and I don't object to that. But whilst in govt he has to distance himself from it. But he also is not on the board of any companies. Various members of the Labour Party have connections to select company's, but if they get into government, they have to step away from them because of possible bias. He might not be now but rest assured he will be lining his pocket when he steps down; just like every other politician has and will, Tony Blair, included.
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