toteend
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 305
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Post by toteend on Jun 25, 2016 9:59:07 GMT
I'm no apologist for Cameron and I'm glad he's gone. But this is total crap reflected by your obvious political leanings I'm afraid you are quite naive. Why? Or have you no reason other than political bias to say that? I don't mind arguing the case, but you haven't put one. All you've expressed is your political bias. As for me, I don't care who runs the show as long as they do their best by us.
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toteend
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 305
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Post by toteend on Jun 25, 2016 10:02:01 GMT
He might not be now but rest assured he will be lining his pocket when he steps down; just like every other politician has and will, Tony Blair, included. Sadly, I agree with you. As for that war criminal you mention, he's a total disgrace. At the moment it's a case of who we think is the best of a bad lot. Thank god I'm not American.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 10:04:54 GMT
Ooh that was a bit heavy, sorry. spot on though
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 10:58:58 GMT
Looking at the map of the vote I think that exposed the fracture in the UK.
I am not so sure that this was a vote against the EU but more a reaction to globalisation and the impact of national Tax and Spend policies on a huge swathe of the population. To that end, age has no bearing.
Interesting that those that have benefitted most from the above, voted remain by a substantial majority. London, along the M4 corridor and western home counties. Almost uniformly the rest of the country voted Brexit (I am excluding Scotland). Now the irony is that those that will come to power as a result of this are those that implemented or voted for policies that has had the negative impact on the social and economic well being of the very people who voted for Brexit.
Did any of the leading people in the Leave Campaign agree and support the minimum wage legislation when it was first brought to the Statute Book? Now they are saying that wages will rise as a result of Brexit, how? Are they going to raise, uniformly the minimum wage, or are they hoping that by restricting the free movement of labour a shortage of labour will result resulting in wage inflation? Well that's what it will be, inflation, not real income rises born of increased productivity. Real incomes generally fall as a result of inflation. Will our education system become better? Too late, so many of our schools have been handed over to private companies, including valuable previously owned public assets, that it is probably irreversible. Now our kids are in faith schools, schools run by ideologues, and where the only measure of education is a string of multiple tests. Our Health System, which improved dramatically after 2002, is now floundering again, under the very leadership of the same people who led the Brexit Campaign. And people actually believed that these same people who said that they would divert the contributions to the EU to our Health System, the very people who cut nurses training capacity in 2010 and more recently cut Nursing Bursaries. The same people who complained about the level of immigration when as a result of these cuts to training and opportunity led to a significant amount of recruitment from abroad to fill the gaps in labour and skills.
No this wasn't about the EU, it was about frustration felt by a huge swathe of the population and the EU was a convenient target, an hysteria fanned by people who have dark motives. Tis true that not all people who voted Brexit are racists, but you can be sure that all racists voted for Brexit. Philip Pullman made this interesting observation: When a clearly clever man like Michael Gove supports the nonsensical and stupid, then you can be sure he is after something.
Sadly, I believe that the map of the voting pattern showed Turkeys voting for Christmas. Deceived by flag waving nationalism, a decrying of the academics and blaming "foreigners".
Members of my family died in two wars to prevent this, 1930's anyone? It doesn't matter to me, I am 64 and financially settled.
But my kids and grandkids?
I feel sick. Disgusted.
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toteend
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 305
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Post by toteend on Jun 25, 2016 11:09:41 GMT
Looking at the map of the vote I think that exposed the fracture in the UK. I am not so sure that this was a vote against the EU but more a reaction to globalisation and the impact of national Tax and Spend policies on a huge swathe of the population. To that end, age has no bearing. Interesting that those that have benefitted most from the above, voted remain by a substantial majority. London, along the M4 corridor and western home counties. Almost uniformly the rest of the country voted Brexit (I am excluding Scotland). Now the irony is that those that will come to power as a result of this are those that implemented or voted for policies that has had the negative impact on the social and economic well being of the very people who voted for Brexit. Did any of the leading people in the Leave Campaign agree and support the minimum wage legislation when it was first brought to the Statute Book? Now they are saying that wages will rise as a result of Brexit, how? Are they going to raise, uniformly the minimum wage, or are they hoping that by restricting the free movement of labour a shortage of labour will result resulting in wage inflation? Well that's what it will be, inflation, not real income rises born of increased productivity. Real incomes generally fall as a result of inflation. Will our education system become better? Too late, so many of our schools have been handed over to private companies, including valuable previously owned public assets, that it is probably irreversible. Now our kids are in faith schools, schools run by ideologues, and where the only measure of education is a string of multiple tests. Our Health System, which improved dramatically after 2002, is now floundering again, under the very leadership of the same people who led the Brexit Campaign. And people actually believed that these same people who said that they would divert the contributions to the EU to our Health System, the very people who cut nurses training capacity in 2010 and more recently cut Nursing Bursaries. The same people who complained about the level of immigration when as a result of these cuts to training and opportunity led to a significant amount of recruitment from abroad to fill the gaps in labour and skills. No this wasn't about the EU, it was about frustration felt by a huge swathe of the population and the EU was a convenient target, an hysteria fanned by people who have dark motives. Tis true that not all people who voted Brexit are racists, but you can be sure that all racists voted for Brexit. Philip Pullman made this interesting observation: When a clearly clever man like Michael Gove supports the nonsensical and stupid, then you can be sure he is after something. Sadly, I believe that the map of the voting pattern showed Turkeys voting for Christmas. Deceived by flag waving nationalism, a decrying of the academics and blaming "foreigners". Members of my family died in two wars to prevent this, 1930's anyone? It doesn't matter to me, I am 64 and financially settled. But my kids and grandkids? I feel sick. Disgusted. Whilst I don't agree with your view, at least you put it across in a clear and passionate manner. What I would say though is this. Why have the EU called a meeting of the other leaders today? It's because they know that there is a danger of others following our lead. That therefore means that whatever issues people like you and me may have, it is clearly an issue for other countries as well. It seems the Dutch are now considering a referendum, as are the Danes. Whatever may may be right or wrong about our political system, at least we can now get rid of them.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Jun 25, 2016 11:09:48 GMT
Looking at the map of the vote I think that exposed the fracture in the UK. I am not so sure that this was a vote against the EU but more a reaction to globalisation and the impact of national Tax and Spend policies on a huge swathe of the population. To that end, age has no bearing. Interesting that those that have benefitted most from the above, voted remain by a substantial majority. London, along the M4 corridor and western home counties. Almost uniformly the rest of the country voted Brexit (I am excluding Scotland). Now the irony is that those that will come to power as a result of this are those that implemented or voted for policies that has had the negative impact on the social and economic well being of the very people who voted for Brexit. Did any of the leading people in the Leave Campaign agree and support the minimum wage legislation when it was first brought to the Statute Book? Now they are saying that wages will rise as a result of Brexit, how? Are they going to raise, uniformly the minimum wage, or are they hoping that by restricting the free movement of labour a shortage of labour will result resulting in wage inflation? Well that's what it will be, inflation, not real income rises born of increased productivity. Real incomes generally fall as a result of inflation. Will our education system become better? Too late, so many of our schools have been handed over to private companies, including valuable previously owned public assets, that it is probably irreversible. Now our kids are in faith schools, schools run by ideologues, and where the only measure of education is a string of multiple tests. Our Health System, which improved dramatically after 2002, is now floundering again, under the very leadership of the same people who led the Brexit Campaign. And people actually believed that these same people who said that they would divert the contributions to the EU to our Health System, the very people who cut nurses training capacity in 2010 and more recently cut Nursing Bursaries. The same people who complained about the level of immigration when as a result of these cuts to training and opportunity led to a significant amount of recruitment from abroad to fill the gaps in labour and skills. No this wasn't about the EU, it was about frustration felt by a huge swathe of the population and the EU was a convenient target, an hysteria fanned by people who have dark motives. Tis true that not all people who voted Brexit are racists, but you can be sure that all racists voted for Brexit. Philip Pullman made this interesting observation: When a clearly clever man like Michael Gove supports the nonsensical and stupid, then you can be sure he is after something. Sadly, I believe that the map of the voting pattern showed Turkeys voting for Christmas. Deceived by flag waving nationalism, a decrying of the academics and blaming "foreigners". Members of my family died in two wars to prevent this, 1930's anyone? It doesn't matter to me, I am 64 and financially settled. But my kids and grandkids? I feel sick. Disgusted. I've been waiting for your comment Oldie. I was hoping you'd tell me my gut feeling was wrong. Sadly not
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Jun 25, 2016 11:15:49 GMT
www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-message-3152881.aspxAre we allowed to discuss this? No current affairs section any more. but as the chairman's raised the topic ... Terrible decision by 'the great British public' imo. Too many old people allowed to vote, like the bloke on the radio this morning who voted 'out' but was "disappointed with the result". And my mum, who also voted out, whilst freely admitting that it won't affect her anyway. How very Nazi! Our Chairman is talking out of his ass if he thinks older people should be denied a vote.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 25, 2016 11:17:41 GMT
Looking at the map of the vote I think that exposed the fracture in the UK. I am not so sure that this was a vote against the EU but more a reaction to globalisation and the impact of national Tax and Spend policies on a huge swathe of the population. To that end, age has no bearing. Interesting that those that have benefitted most from the above, voted remain by a substantial majority. London, along the M4 corridor and western home counties. Almost uniformly the rest of the country voted Brexit (I am excluding Scotland). Now the irony is that those that will come to power as a result of this are those that implemented or voted for policies that has had the negative impact on the social and economic well being of the very people who voted for Brexit. Did any of the leading people in the Leave Campaign agree and support the minimum wage legislation when it was first brought to the Statute Book? Now they are saying that wages will rise as a result of Brexit, how? Are they going to raise, uniformly the minimum wage, or are they hoping that by restricting the free movement of labour a shortage of labour will result resulting in wage inflation? Well that's what it will be, inflation, not real income rises born of increased productivity. Real incomes generally fall as a result of inflation. Will our education system become better? Too late, so many of our schools have been handed over to private companies, including valuable previously owned public assets, that it is probably irreversible. Now our kids are in faith schools, schools run by ideologues, and where the only measure of education is a string of multiple tests. Our Health System, which improved dramatically after 2002, is now floundering again, under the very leadership of the same people who led the Brexit Campaign. And people actually believed that these same people who said that they would divert the contributions to the EU to our Health System, the very people who cut nurses training capacity in 2010 and more recently cut Nursing Bursaries. The same people who complained about the level of immigration when as a result of these cuts to training and opportunity led to a significant amount of recruitment from abroad to fill the gaps in labour and skills. No this wasn't about the EU, it was about frustration felt by a huge swathe of the population and the EU was a convenient target, an hysteria fanned by people who have dark motives. Tis true that not all people who voted Brexit are racists, but you can be sure that all racists voted for Brexit. Philip Pullman made this interesting observation: When a clearly clever man like Michael Gove supports the nonsensical and stupid, then you can be sure he is after something. Sadly, I believe that the map of the voting pattern showed Turkeys voting for Christmas. Deceived by flag waving nationalism, a decrying of the academics and blaming "foreigners". Members of my family died in two wars to prevent this, 1930's anyone? It doesn't matter to me, I am 64 and financially settled. But my kids and grandkids? I feel sick. Disgusted. Very well put Oldie. Please also add Boris to the Gove scenario. Farage has been kept quite because his supporters were already on board and there was a chance he could have alienated others. There are/were many, many things within the EU that needed change (including direction) but all we have done with this vote is give the remainder a chance of getting a better EU with us left outside.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 25, 2016 11:27:21 GMT
www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-message-3152881.aspxAre we allowed to discuss this? No current affairs section any more. but as the chairman's raised the topic ... Terrible decision by 'the great British public' imo. Too many old people allowed to vote, like the bloke on the radio this morning who voted 'out' but was "disappointed with the result". And my mum, who also voted out, whilst freely admitting that it won't affect her anyway. How very Nazi! Our Chairman is talking out of his ass if he thinks older people should be denied a vote. How did you deduce that from these comments? This vote was not about the next five years, as a general election is, when we can change our mind. This vote was about the future generations with no chance of changing our mind for a considerable number of generations. That is what I read into Angas' comment on who should be voting. I am over 55 and, knowing that it is not my future I was voting for, I would be quite happy for over 16's to have voted and me be unable to. It is their future, not mine.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 11:30:32 GMT
Looking at the map of the vote I think that exposed the fracture in the UK. I am not so sure that this was a vote against the EU but more a reaction to globalisation and the impact of national Tax and Spend policies on a huge swathe of the population. To that end, age has no bearing. Interesting that those that have benefitted most from the above, voted remain by a substantial majority. London, along the M4 corridor and western home counties. Almost uniformly the rest of the country voted Brexit (I am excluding Scotland). Now the irony is that those that will come to power as a result of this are those that implemented or voted for policies that has had the negative impact on the social and economic well being of the very people who voted for Brexit. Did any of the leading people in the Leave Campaign agree and support the minimum wage legislation when it was first brought to the Statute Book? Now they are saying that wages will rise as a result of Brexit, how? Are they going to raise, uniformly the minimum wage, or are they hoping that by restricting the free movement of labour a shortage of labour will result resulting in wage inflation? Well that's what it will be, inflation, not real income rises born of increased productivity. Real incomes generally fall as a result of inflation. Will our education system become better? Too late, so many of our schools have been handed over to private companies, including valuable previously owned public assets, that it is probably irreversible. Now our kids are in faith schools, schools run by ideologues, and where the only measure of education is a string of multiple tests. Our Health System, which improved dramatically after 2002, is now floundering again, under the very leadership of the same people who led the Brexit Campaign. And people actually believed that these same people who said that they would divert the contributions to the EU to our Health System, the very people who cut nurses training capacity in 2010 and more recently cut Nursing Bursaries. The same people who complained about the level of immigration when as a result of these cuts to training and opportunity led to a significant amount of recruitment from abroad to fill the gaps in labour and skills. No this wasn't about the EU, it was about frustration felt by a huge swathe of the population and the EU was a convenient target, an hysteria fanned by people who have dark motives. Tis true that not all people who voted Brexit are racists, but you can be sure that all racists voted for Brexit. Philip Pullman made this interesting observation: When a clearly clever man like Michael Gove supports the nonsensical and stupid, then you can be sure he is after something. Sadly, I believe that the map of the voting pattern showed Turkeys voting for Christmas. Deceived by flag waving nationalism, a decrying of the academics and blaming "foreigners". Members of my family died in two wars to prevent this, 1930's anyone? It doesn't matter to me, I am 64 and financially settled. But my kids and grandkids? I feel sick. Disgusted. nonsensical and stupid and racist well done you managed to get all 3 in
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Jun 25, 2016 11:47:10 GMT
How very Nazi! Our Chairman is talking out of his ass if he thinks older people should be denied a vote. How did you deduce that from these comments? This vote was not about the next five years, as a general election is, when we can change our mind. This vote was about the future generations with no chance of changing our mind for a considerable number of generations. That is what I read into Angas' comment on who should be voting. I am over 55 and, knowing that it is not my future I was voting for, I would be quite happy for over 16's to have voted and me be unable to. It is their future, not mine. Everybody has a vote.That's it. I imagine there's a few at Glastonbury,maybe right now,about to enjoy a satisfying drag on a nice home grown spliff.Just before said smoke,they can ponder......'to think,i couldn't even be bothered to vote'. Too late to start moaning now.Britons need a good look at our whole shebang.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 25, 2016 11:59:34 GMT
How did you deduce that from these comments? This vote was not about the next five years, as a general election is, when we can change our mind. This vote was about the future generations with no chance of changing our mind for a considerable number of generations. That is what I read into Angas' comment on who should be voting. I am over 55 and, knowing that it is not my future I was voting for, I would be quite happy for over 16's to have voted and me be unable to. It is their future, not mine. Everybody has a vote.That's it. I imagine there's a few at Glastonbury,maybe right now,about to enjoy a satisfying drag on a nice home grown spliff.Just before said smoke,they can ponder......'to think,i couldn't even be bothered to vote'. Too late to start moaning now.Britons need a good look at our whole shebang. Are you saying that you are more important than the person you describe?
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Jun 25, 2016 12:10:08 GMT
Looking at the map of the vote I think that exposed the fracture in the UK. I am not so sure that this was a vote against the EU but more a reaction to globalisation and the impact of national Tax and Spend policies on a huge swathe of the population. To that end, age has no bearing. Interesting that those that have benefitted most from the above, voted remain by a substantial majority. London, along the M4 corridor and western home counties. Almost uniformly the rest of the country voted Brexit (I am excluding Scotland). Now the irony is that those that will come to power as a result of this are those that implemented or voted for policies that has had the negative impact on the social and economic well being of the very people who voted for Brexit. Did any of the leading people in the Leave Campaign agree and support the minimum wage legislation when it was first brought to the Statute Book? Now they are saying that wages will rise as a result of Brexit, how? Are they going to raise, uniformly the minimum wage, or are they hoping that by restricting the free movement of labour a shortage of labour will result resulting in wage inflation? Well that's what it will be, inflation, not real income rises born of increased productivity. Real incomes generally fall as a result of inflation. Will our education system become better? Too late, so many of our schools have been handed over to private companies, including valuable previously owned public assets, that it is probably irreversible. Now our kids are in faith schools, schools run by ideologues, and where the only measure of education is a string of multiple tests. Our Health System, which improved dramatically after 2002, is now floundering again, under the very leadership of the same people who led the Brexit Campaign. And people actually believed that these same people who said that they would divert the contributions to the EU to our Health System, the very people who cut nurses training capacity in 2010 and more recently cut Nursing Bursaries. The same people who complained about the level of immigration when as a result of these cuts to training and opportunity led to a significant amount of recruitment from abroad to fill the gaps in labour and skills. No this wasn't about the EU, it was about frustration felt by a huge swathe of the population and the EU was a convenient target, an hysteria fanned by people who have dark motives. Tis true that not all people who voted Brexit are racists, but you can be sure that all racists voted for Brexit. Philip Pullman made this interesting observation: When a clearly clever man like Michael Gove supports the nonsensical and stupid, then you can be sure he is after something. Sadly, I believe that the map of the voting pattern showed Turkeys voting for Christmas. Deceived by flag waving nationalism, a decrying of the academics and blaming "foreigners". Members of my family died in two wars to prevent this, 1930's anyone? It doesn't matter to me, I am 64 and financially settled. But my kids and grandkids? I feel sick. Disgusted. nonsensical and stupid and racist well done you managed to get all 3 in I have just re-read Oldies comments, much of which I agree with. Obviously if you don't you could well claim they were 'nonsensical', 'stupid' is harsh, but you are entitled to that opinion , but where was there ANY hint of racism?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 12:14:07 GMT
Just out iof interest, what were people voting for (rather than against)? Is it the Swiss / Norwegian model (stay in the single market but have no say in it) or the Albanian model (lone wolf, but then they want to join the EU)? As that's not defined, whatever we get probably won't suit either. The benefits so far seem to be that we got to shake a fist, and will get to define our own standards for bananas. The downside is myriad. That people vote for any position with a strap line 'don't listen to experts' and a promise of glitter and rainbows is depressing - especially given the people promising this haven't shown much interest in providing glitter and rainbows before now.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Jun 25, 2016 12:19:35 GMT
www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/article/chairmans-message-3152881.aspxAre we allowed to discuss this? No current affairs section any more. but as the chairman's raised the topic ... Terrible decision by 'the great British public' imo. Too many old people allowed to vote, like the bloke on the radio this morning who voted 'out' but was "disappointed with the result". And my mum, who also voted out, whilst freely admitting that it won't affect her anyway. How very Nazi! Our Chairman is talking out of his ass if he thinks older people should be denied a vote. Ha ha. That wasn't a quote Basel, those were my words.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 12:24:45 GMT
Just out iof interest, what were people voting for (rather than against)? Is it the Swiss / Norwegian model (stay in the single market but have no say in it) or the Albanian model (lone wolf, but then they want to join the EU)? As that's not defined, whatever we get probably won't suit either. The benefits so far seem to be that we got to shake a fist, and will get to define our own standards for bananas. The downside is myriad. That people vote for any position with a strap line 'don't listen to experts' and a promise of glitter and rainbows is depressing - especially given the people promising this haven't shown much interest in providing glitter and rainbows before now. I think they voted for border control. And a promise to spend the same saving made from EU contributions many times over; at least once on the NHS, once on education, once on building affordable housing for first time buyers, once on stables for unicorns that f&rt rainbows etc etc etc. It is all depressing, we should be part of the EU, we would be stronger together, however, it ain't gonna work as long as Brussels is run like a 1970s closed shop union. If it wasn't us, it was going to be France, and quite possible it will be France next anyway. The whole EU project is hanging by a thread. Maybe something can be salvaged from the ashes, but it's hard to see how? As for bananas, Google Ray Comfort banana man, you'll learn all you need to know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 12:26:05 GMT
nonsensical and stupid and racist well done you managed to get all 3 in I have just re-read Oldies comments, much of which I agree with. Obviously if you don't you could well claim they were 'nonsensical', 'stupid' is harsh, but you are entitled to that opinion , but where was there ANY hint of racism? i agreed with some of it and not other bits. i was pointing out his labels on some of the leave voters, i think its lazy
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Post by matealotblue on Jun 25, 2016 12:29:11 GMT
How very Nazi! Our Chairman is talking out of his ass if he thinks older people should be denied a vote. How did you deduce that from these comments? This vote was not about the next five years, as a general election is, when we can change our mind. This vote was about the future generations with no chance of changing our mind for a considerable number of generations. That is what I read into Angas' comment on who should be voting. I am over 55 and, knowing that it is not my future I was voting for , I would be quite happy for over 16's to have voted and me be unable to. It is their future, not mine.But that ain't how a democratic system works though. Going down that path would be somewhat peculiar. One person one vote. People who have lived through life are as entitled to vote as those that haven't lived through life.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 12:29:39 GMT
Just out iof interest, what were people voting for (rather than against)? Is it the Swiss / Norwegian model (stay in the single market but have no say in it) or the Albanian model (lone wolf, but then they want to join the EU)? As that's not defined, whatever we get probably won't suit either. The benefits so far seem to be that we got to shake a fist, and will get to define our own standards for bananas. The downside is myriad. That people vote for any position with a strap line 'don't listen to experts' and a promise of glitter and rainbows is depressing - especially given the people promising this haven't shown much interest in providing glitter and rainbows before now. I think they voted for border control. And a promise to spend the same saving made from EU contributions many times over; at least once on the NHS, once on education, once on building affordable housing for first time buyers, once on stables for unicorns that f&rt rainbows etc etc etc. It is all depressing, we should be part of the EU, we would be stronger together, however, it ain't gonna work as long as Brussels is run like a 1970s closed shop union. If it wasn't us, it was going to be France, and quite possible it will be France next anyway. The whole EU project is hanging by a thread. Maybe something can be salvaged from the ashes, but it's hard to see how? As for bananas, Google Ray Comfort banana man, you'll learn all you need to know. thats right, ill say again we went to them in febuary and got nothing, id rather be a part of europe but not as it is
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Jun 25, 2016 12:34:23 GMT
I have just re-read Oldies comments, much of which I agree with. Obviously if you don't you could well claim they were 'nonsensical', 'stupid' is harsh, but you are entitled to that opinion , but where was there ANY hint of racism? i agreed with some of it and not other bits. i was pointing out his labels on some of the leave voters, i think its lazy Okay, I could give you lazy, but how on earth is it racist?
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