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Post by gasolder on Jan 27, 2016 18:56:49 GMT
Well let's be optimistic and assume Sainsbury's have changed their mind and are re-negotiating with NH to buy the Mem! They will now need this absolutely ideal location for their new integrated Argos/Sainsbury store when the deal to take over Argos goes through.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 27, 2016 19:00:06 GMT
I fear if it's a close call ie 2-1 in our favour leave to Appeal could be sort, then it's heard by 5 Judges if leave is given.Aas far as where does it end then that's the European Courts of Justice but I doubt a squabble over a supermarket/staduim contract would get that far! If what I have read & from what NH had said then this case is a potential rainmaker with Sainsburys then having some forty other cases that could be taken further by parties they have done similar with. It wouidn't then be just a squabble between us and them, I guess. Sainsburys could potentially have a lot of court cases to follow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 19:10:53 GMT
Well only 2 days as opposed to the scheduled 3... seems to imply that we will get the final decision sooner rather than later. Is it possible that a line was drawn under the proceedings because the opposing parties indicated that they were willing to come to an agreement between themselves instead? I know very little about this kind of thing, and as a result of the latest chapter in the saga am now defining 'an appeal' as 'a brief summary of old evidence presented to new judges'. That's 'This won't get as far as court because Sainsbury's will capitulate ahead of the event (despite being 5-0 up): the next generation'. Even the club's website says that the judges have gone away to deliberate but won't report until March. Can we agree the existence of that starw to grasp at has officially been ruled out?* * unless, in assuming the best for the club, people immediately accept that its website is peddling disinformation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 19:11:29 GMT
Those 40 cases won't just disappear if they've done a deal with us, so I doubt that's behind the abrupt end to proceedings.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jan 27, 2016 19:28:01 GMT
The reporting has been a bit crap hasnt it.
Interested to find out what are actual argument was on this fundamental and obvious error was. We are all none the wiser.
Sit back and wait
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 27, 2016 19:28:42 GMT
Those 40 cases won't just disappear if they've done a deal with us, so I doubt that's behind the abrupt end to proceedings. I wasn't saying that but was just giving my thoughts on the post that if it went to further appeal, it wouidnt then be viewed as a squabble between us and a supermarket
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 19:30:05 GMT
Those 40 cases won't just disappear if they've done a deal with us, so I doubt that's behind the abrupt end to proceedings. I wasn't saying that but was just giving my thoughts on the post that if it went to further appeal, it wouidnt then be viewed as a squabble between us and a supermarket Sorry, I was just thinking out loud, yours just happened to be the post I responded to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 20:01:48 GMT
The reporting has been a bit crap hasnt it. Interested to find out what are actual argument was on this fundamental and obvious error was. We are all none the wiser. Sit back and wait Perhaps BSS can tell us. It was obvious, apparently. Other than that...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 20:09:15 GMT
All very strange, finishing early does not sound good at all.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 27, 2016 20:10:59 GMT
I wasn't saying that but was just giving my thoughts on the post that if it went to further appeal, it wouidnt then be viewed as a squabble between us and a supermarket Sorry, I was just thinking out loud, yours just happened to be the post I responded to. Really no need to apologise. It is appreciated though. When I think of the amount of other people, teams and companies that Sainsburys have shafted, it really does make me really hope that they get some karmic justice.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 27, 2016 20:28:00 GMT
All very strange, finishing early does not sound good at all. It does seem that either a) they felt the evidence put forward was enough for them to make a decision B) the original cases judgment was correct and they felt no need to hear more. It is a bit more than odd though but maybe it saves some costs
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 20:56:21 GMT
All very strange, finishing early does not sound good at all. It does seem that either a) they felt the evidence put forward was enough for them to make a decision B) the original cases judgment was correct and they felt no need to hear more. It is a bit more than odd though but maybe it saves some costs To be fair, the original expectation was '2 or 3 days'. So, they put aside 3 days' but rattled it off in 2. My problem is that I was still waiting for them to get to why Mrs Proudman was wrong, on legal grounds, once they'd done with going over old ground and saying how they felt hard done by. Maybe they did but it hasn't been well reported. It could be that there wasn't much of a case to raise or answer, or that it was all pretty clear cut. Who knows? The old forum had a damp squib / squid smiley. That would sum up my reaction.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jan 27, 2016 21:00:06 GMT
My problem is that I was still waiting for them to get to why Mrs Proudman was wrong, on legal grounds, they did, early doors, though I didn't understand it (which didn't surprise me given that its based on a point of law)......
'Our brief said that it was 'an extraordinary case' and that the original judge had cocked it up, though in the nicest possible way. 'In our respectful submission the learned judge was on a frolic of her own.....' 'erred in concluding....', sort of stuff. One precedent was discussed, and one of the judges suggested that the 'learned judge' in that case exhibited 'a piece of judicial exhuberance'
There was a very technical discussion of estoppel and the Section 73 application. The estoppel arguments are apparently all new, or something - they weren't brought in last time
Our briefs said they saw the draft judgement and saw the error immediately. Our position is summarised in some 'post-judgement submissions'
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Rod1883
Joined: May 2014
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Post by Rod1883 on Jan 27, 2016 21:04:59 GMT
It does seem that either a) they felt the evidence put forward was enough for them to make a decision B) the original cases judgment was correct and they felt no need to hear more. It is a bit more than odd though but maybe it saves some costs To be fair, the original expectation was '2 or 3 days'. So, they put aside 3 days' but rattled it off in 2. My problem is that I was still waiting for them to get to why Mrs Proudman was wrong, on legal grounds, once they'd done with going over old ground and saying how they felt hard done by. Maybe they did but it hasn't been well reported. It could be that there wasn't much of a case to raise or answer, or that it was all pretty clear cut. Who knows? The old forum had a damp squib / squid smiley. That would sum up my reaction. From www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/damp-squib.html Damp squib
Meaning
Something that fails ignominiously to satisfy expectations; an anti-climax, a disappointment.
Origin
The first thing to say about the expression 'damp squib' is that it is 'squib', not 'squid'. Squid are a species of cephalopod. In their natural environment squid are usually damp but that's as near to this phrase as they are likely to get. Having mentioned squid I ought also to get the other notable squiddish play on words out of the way - the old joke "Hey, where's that sick squid you owe me?". Having done our linguistic duty with squid, we can now move on to 'damp squib'.
A squib is a form of firework, usually cylindrical in shape with a paper fuse at one end, which provides a mild explosion - think 'dynamite lite'. Clearly, fireworks work best when they are dry. Anyone who, at a backyard bonfire, has lit the blue touch paper and retired only to see the firework phut and fizzle out will know the disappointment of a damp squib.
In the 16th century, 'squibs' were also short, sharp literary compositions of a satirical or sarcastic character. Both the 'firework' meaning and the 'satire' meaning are first found in print in the 1520s and it isn't entirely clear which came first.
The first use that I can find of the expression being used figuratively certainly derives from the 'firework' meaning. That is in the London newspaper The Morning Post, March 1837, in a complimentary article about the British parliamentarian George Grote:
Mr. Grote is a nice man. We rather like Mr. Grote. Mr. Grote does not vote black white; or fiz and splutter, after the fashion of a damp squib.
'Squib' isn't a word that we find ourselves using very often, hence the erroneous 'damp squid' isn't difficult to find in print, for example, this piece from the Trinidad & Tobago Express, June 2005:
I imagine the excitement will last for another few weeks before it peters out into a damp squid...
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jan 27, 2016 21:09:36 GMT
My problem is that I was still waiting for them to get to why Mrs Proudman was wrong, on legal grounds, they did, early doors, though I didn't understand it (which didn't surprise me given that its based on a point of law)......
'Our brief said that it was 'an extraordinary case' and that the original judge had cocked it up, though in the nicest possible way. 'In our respectful submission the learned judge was on a frolic of her own.....' 'erred in concluding....', sort of stuff. One precedent was discussed, and one of the judges suggested that the 'learned judge' in that case exhibited 'a piece of judicial exhuberance'
There was a very technical discussion of estoppel and the Section 73 application. The estoppel arguments are apparently all new, or something - they weren't brought in last time
Our briefs said they saw the draft judgement and saw the error immediately. Our position is summarised in some 'post-judgement submissions'
Reading that though what is said there IMO indicates that the precedent we mentioned was not that impressive to one judge
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 21:10:16 GMT
My problem is that I was still waiting for them to get to why Mrs Proudman was wrong, on legal grounds, they did, early doors, though I didn't understand it (which didn't surprise me given that its based on a point of law)......
'Our brief said that it was 'an extraordinary case' and that the original judge had cocked it up, though in the nicest possible way. 'In our respectful submission the learned judge was on a frolic of her own.....' 'erred in concluding....', sort of stuff. One precedent was discussed, and one of the judges suggested that the 'learned judge' in that case exhibited 'a piece of judicial exhuberance'
There was a very technical discussion of estoppel and the Section 73 application. The estoppel arguments are apparently all new, or something - they weren't brought in last time
Our briefs said they saw the draft judgement and saw the error immediately. Our position is summarised in some 'post-judgement submissions'
Ta. So the newly raised precedent seems to have been discounted. By memory Mrs Proudman referred to lots of precedents, and the legal reports that Finish Gas posted referred to this case reinforcing a general principle. If we didn't argue that they weren't relevant because..., just saying that she hadn't mentioned what the judge called a piece of judicial exuberance to counteract it, oh. Then again, I have no idea what an estoppel is. Maybe that puts an estop to any attempts to terminate a contract!
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,263
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 27, 2016 21:16:18 GMT
To be fair, the original expectation was '2 or 3 days'. So, they put aside 3 days' but rattled it off in 2. My problem is that I was still waiting for them to get to why Mrs Proudman was wrong, on legal grounds, once they'd done with going over old ground and saying how they felt hard done by. Maybe they did but it hasn't been well reported. It could be that there wasn't much of a case to raise or answer, or that it was all pretty clear cut. Who knows? The old forum had a damp squib / squid smiley. That would sum up my reaction. From www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/damp-squib.html Damp squib
Meaning
Something that fails ignominiously to satisfy expectations; an anti-climax, a disappointment.
Origin
The first thing to say about the expression 'damp squib' is that it is 'squib', not 'squid'. Squid are a species of cephalopod. In their natural environment squid are usually damp but that's as near to this phrase as they are likely to get. Having mentioned squid I ought also to get the other notable squiddish play on words out of the way - the old joke "Hey, where's that sick squid you owe me?". Having done our linguistic duty with squid, we can now move on to 'damp squib'.
A squib is a form of firework, usually cylindrical in shape with a paper fuse at one end, which provides a mild explosion - think 'dynamite lite'. Clearly, fireworks work best when they are dry. Anyone who, at a backyard bonfire, has lit the blue touch paper and retired only to see the firework phut and fizzle out will know the disappointment of a damp squib.
In the 16th century, 'squibs' were also short, sharp literary compositions of a satirical or sarcastic character. Both the 'firework' meaning and the 'satire' meaning are first found in print in the 1520s and it isn't entirely clear which came first.
The first use that I can find of the expression being used figuratively certainly derives from the 'firework' meaning. That is in the London newspaper The Morning Post, March 1837, in a complimentary article about the British parliamentarian George Grote:
Mr. Grote is a nice man. We rather like Mr. Grote. Mr. Grote does not vote black white; or fiz and splutter, after the fashion of a damp squib.
'Squib' isn't a word that we find ourselves using very often, hence the erroneous 'damp squid' isn't difficult to find in print, for example, this piece from the Trinidad & Tobago Express, June 2005:
I imagine the excitement will last for another few weeks before it peters out into a damp squid...
Far out !
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 21:16:50 GMT
To be fair, the original expectation was '2 or 3 days'. So, they put aside 3 days' but rattled it off in 2. My problem is that I was still waiting for them to get to why Mrs Proudman was wrong, on legal grounds, once they'd done with going over old ground and saying how they felt hard done by. Maybe they did but it hasn't been well reported. It could be that there wasn't much of a case to raise or answer, or that it was all pretty clear cut. Who knows? The old forum had a damp squib / squid smiley. That would sum up my reaction. From www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/damp-squib.html Damp squib
Meaning
Something that fails ignominiously to satisfy expectations; an anti-climax, a disappointment.
Origin
The first thing to say about the expression 'damp squib' is that it is 'squib', not 'squid'. Squid are a species of cephalopod. In their natural environment squid are usually damp but that's as near to this phrase as they are likely to get. Having mentioned squid I ought also to get the other notable squiddish play on words out of the way - the old joke "Hey, where's that sick squid you owe me?". Having done our linguistic duty with squid, we can now move on to 'damp squib'.
A squib is a form of firework, usually cylindrical in shape with a paper fuse at one end, which provides a mild explosion - think 'dynamite lite'. Clearly, fireworks work best when they are dry. Anyone who, at a backyard bonfire, has lit the blue touch paper and retired only to see the firework phut and fizzle out will know the disappointment of a damp squib.
In the 16th century, 'squibs' were also short, sharp literary compositions of a satirical or sarcastic character. Both the 'firework' meaning and the 'satire' meaning are first found in print in the 1520s and it isn't entirely clear which came first.
The first use that I can find of the expression being used figuratively certainly derives from the 'firework' meaning. That is in the London newspaper The Morning Post, March 1837, in a complimentary article about the British parliamentarian George Grote:
Mr. Grote is a nice man. We rather like Mr. Grote. Mr. Grote does not vote black white; or fiz and splutter, after the fashion of a damp squib.
'Squib' isn't a word that we find ourselves using very often, hence the erroneous 'damp squid' isn't difficult to find in print, for example, this piece from the Trinidad & Tobago Express, June 2005:
I imagine the excitement will last for another few weeks before it peters out into a damp squid...
I know. It was a bit of a joke smiley, playing on the established confusion between the two words. Even then it was more like a four-legged octopus. I also know, btw, that octopuses have eight legs. And that they're not legs. My expectations have been disappointed is what I meant to imply, so that's all good. See also 'hiost by his own petard' when using idioms relating to archaic explosive devices. Maybe this should have a thread of its own.
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LincsBlue
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 685
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Post by LincsBlue on Jan 27, 2016 21:18:35 GMT
they did, early doors, though I didn't understand it (which didn't surprise me given that its based on a point of law)......
'Our brief said that it was 'an extraordinary case' and that the original judge had cocked it up, though in the nicest possible way. 'In our respectful submission the learned judge was on a frolic of her own.....' 'erred in concluding....', sort of stuff. One precedent was discussed, and one of the judges suggested that the 'learned judge' in that case exhibited 'a piece of judicial exhuberance'
There was a very technical discussion of estoppel and the Section 73 application. The estoppel arguments are apparently all new, or something - they weren't brought in last time
Our briefs said they saw the draft judgement and saw the error immediately. Our position is summarised in some 'post-judgement submissions'
Ta. So the newly raised precedent seems to have been discounted. By memory Mrs Proudman referred to lots of precedents, and the legal reports that Finish Gas posted referred to this case reinforcing a general principle. If we didn't argue that they weren't relevant because..., just saying that she hadn't mentioned what the judge called a piece of judicial exuberance to counteract it, oh. Then again, I have no idea what an estoppel is. Maybe that puts an estop to any attempts to terminate a contract! Estoppel. A legal principle that bars a party from denying or alleging a certain fact owing to that party's previous conduct, allegation, or denial.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,263
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 27, 2016 21:21:27 GMT
From www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/damp-squib.html Damp squib
Meaning
Something that fails ignominiously to satisfy expectations; an anti-climax, a disappointment.
Origin
The first thing to say about the expression 'damp squib' is that it is 'squib', not 'squid'. Squid are a species of cephalopod. In their natural environment squid are usually damp but that's as near to this phrase as they are likely to get. Having mentioned squid I ought also to get the other notable squiddish play on words out of the way - the old joke "Hey, where's that sick squid you owe me?". Having done our linguistic duty with squid, we can now move on to 'damp squib'.
A squib is a form of firework, usually cylindrical in shape with a paper fuse at one end, which provides a mild explosion - think 'dynamite lite'. Clearly, fireworks work best when they are dry. Anyone who, at a backyard bonfire, has lit the blue touch paper and retired only to see the firework phut and fizzle out will know the disappointment of a damp squib.
In the 16th century, 'squibs' were also short, sharp literary compositions of a satirical or sarcastic character. Both the 'firework' meaning and the 'satire' meaning are first found in print in the 1520s and it isn't entirely clear which came first.
The first use that I can find of the expression being used figuratively certainly derives from the 'firework' meaning. That is in the London newspaper The Morning Post, March 1837, in a complimentary article about the British parliamentarian George Grote:
Mr. Grote is a nice man. We rather like Mr. Grote. Mr. Grote does not vote black white; or fiz and splutter, after the fashion of a damp squib.
'Squib' isn't a word that we find ourselves using very often, hence the erroneous 'damp squid' isn't difficult to find in print, for example, this piece from the Trinidad & Tobago Express, June 2005:
I imagine the excitement will last for another few weeks before it peters out into a damp squid...
I know. It was a bit of a joke smiley, playing on the established confusion between the two words. Even then it was more like a four-legged octopus. I also know, btw, that octopuses have eight legs. And that they're not legs. My expectations have been disappointed is what I meant to imply, so that's all good. See also 'hiost by his own petard' when using idioms relating to archaic explosive devices. Maybe this should have a thread of its own. See, This is where this forum really does come into its own. I get edumucated by some of the members & also it makes me smile when I read stuff like this. Gas heads do QI type of thing
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