kwoodgas
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 675 
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Post by kwoodgas on Jan 5, 2016 17:44:28 GMT
Look don't want this to be a dig at DC or any of the players, just want to stoke some debate.
With Bliss going today, it's made me think of the number of players DC has either fallen out with or failed to get the best out of.
Bliss was far from the finished article, but Agogo was far worse when he first came. It took Jason Roberts god knows how many sessions with Gary Penrice to get him upto speed and I'm sure the older folk can regale countless other players that had a slow start, but improved with patience and good coaching/man management.
In the relegation season he stripped Parkes of the captaincy and got the square root of sod all out of O'Toole who previously, even if not playing well would always be a goal threat.
Harrison is a more complex one, it could be argue DC played the 'treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen' routine perfectly last season, but it's a shame we've failed to get anything out of him this season after scoring twice in his first two starts.
Dawson, looked a really dangerous player and created numerous assists. Far from the finished article but we shouldve signed him as he had miles more potential than Gosling, Balanta (who he tried to resign) and Montano.
Lines, easily the most naturally talented player in the squad, but was in and out of the side even before his injury.
Mildenhall, would he have been any worse than Nichols and not cost us a penny?
Barring Lines (who already knew the club), Dawson and I guess to a certain extent Cunnington, Martin and Chapman all of his loan signings have been a major disapointment, is that partly a failure to integrate them into the squad?
Look DC has done a sterling job this season, as the league table reflects, but are we seeing a limitation of his management. Can he only manage the Lockyers, the Sinclairs, the Mansells of this world who are solid pros, committed 100% to the club and the team? I guess there's nothing wrong with that the likes of Moyes, Pullis, Allardyce, Bruce, Warnock etc etc have built solid and sucessful teams on those attributes, but is the key reason none of those became a Ferguson or a Wenger because they couldn't handle the more complex personalities?
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Post by pirate49 on Jan 5, 2016 17:46:51 GMT
Heretic!
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Post by severnbeachline on Jan 5, 2016 17:47:55 GMT
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Jan 5, 2016 18:21:41 GMT
I'm not too certain what to make of the OP, but the reply made me laugh.  |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,261
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 5, 2016 18:35:00 GMT
Look don't want this to be a dig at DC or any of the players, just want to stoke some debate. With Bliss going today, it's made me think of the number of players DC has either fallen out with or failed to get the best out of. Bliss was far from the finished article, but Agogo was far worse when he first came. It took Jason Roberts god knows how many sessions with Gary Penrice to get him upto speed and I'm sure the older folk can regale countless other players that had a slow start, but improved with patience and good coaching/man management. In the relegation season he stripped Parkes of the captaincy and got the square root of sod all out of O'Toole who previously, even if not playing well would always be a goal threat. Harrison is a more complex one, it could be argue DC played the 'treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen' routine perfectly last season, but it's a shame we've failed to get anything out of him this season after scoring twice in his first two starts. Dawson, looked a really dangerous player and created numerous assists. Far from the finished article but we shouldve signed him as he had miles more potential than Gosling, Balanta (who he tried to resign) and Montano. Lines, easily the most naturally talented player in the squad, but was in and out of the side even before his injury. Mildenhall, would he have been any worse than Nichols and not cost us a penny? Barring Lines (who already knew the club), Dawson and I guess to a certain extent Cunnington, Martin and Chapman all of his loan signings have been a major disapointment, is that partly a failure to integrate them into the squad? Look DC has done a sterling job this season, as the league table reflects, but are we seeing a limitation of his management. Can he only manage the Lockyers, the Sinclairs, the Mansells of this world who are solid pros, committed 100% to the club and the team? I guess there's nothing wrong with that the likes of Moyes, Pullis, Allardyce, Bruce, Warnock etc etc have built solid and sucessful teams on those attributes, but is the key reason none of those became a Ferguson or a Wenger because they couldn't handle the more complex personalities? A thought provoking post and I agree that DC has made some decisions that have certainly had me questioning his management BUT he has been successful and has had to work within the constraints of a budget that I woukd doubt any previous Rovers manager has had. He has a winning attitude and is on record as saying he will not tolerate players with the wrong attitude and that he wants a top 7 spot. He has said that he would regard anything else as unacceptable and that includes himself. As much as I can question him, he has constantly got the job done and has made me do a complete 180 about turn. I do have complete faith in the man. I now feel that if he thinks the player not good enough then I will agree & because he has proved me wrong many times over. I worry that the only thing you cannot learn is the contacts side of the game. I was only thinking, last night, that he could do with someone working with him that has those contacts. Getting loan players in then not playing them won't make the loaning clubs want to lend them, without them getting game time, at least that is what I believe. I think he can fall out and then freeze out players but, to my surprise, the team has been better for it and this squad seems very tight knit. The results speak for themselves eh. He is still a young man and is learning, I think he is doing that and very admirably at that. If he were a student then I think he woukd be fast tracked a few years above his age group. |
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Jan 5, 2016 18:36:10 GMT
You're right kg.
DC bit of a disaster really.
Get Cotts in asap.
Have you ever spoken to any of our players?
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kwoodgas
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 675
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Post by kwoodgas on Jan 5, 2016 18:39:20 GMT
I said DC has done a sterling job didn't I?!?!
Just merely stating this could be something he needs to work on if he's going to progress from being a good manager to a great one?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 18:40:41 GMT
Falling out with players never did Alex Ferguson any harm.
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Jan 5, 2016 18:55:19 GMT
I had this debate in the pub at Wembley after the game - nah only joking! Mind you had we lost...
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jan 5, 2016 18:55:26 GMT
Gavin Kelly, Lee Maddison, Steve Parmenter, Brian Gayle, Andy Thomson, Kevin Street, Ijah Anderson, Dave Savage, Bradley Allen, Che Wilson, Ali Gibb, Sammy Igoe, Lewis Haldane, Andy Sandell, Aaron Downes, Wayne Andrew, Joe Anyinsah, Seanan Clucas, Neal Trotman. See how it all fits together......
Genuinely don't really understand what this is about - all of those players mentioned in the original post left the club (or are still here) for very different reasons and were signed in very different contexts. The only real evidence of man management mishandling is probably with Mildenhall and given that he's currently still here, in the starting lineup presently and playing well I don't think it's too much of a disaster. Clarke seems to like competition for places on the whole - very few players in our side seem guaranteed a starting position. That seems very healthy to me.
Blisset isn't bad management - he was just signed for one context but isn't right for us in our current position. If we'd stayed in the Conference he'd likely still have a role. No great disaster really and I hope he goes on and forges a career for himself but Rovers isn't the right place for him to be right now.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 19:52:59 GMT
Blisset was a mistake and DC said as much during his bar visits. Fortunately his mistake has more than been made up for by success on the pitch. Higgs signed Akinde on loan and then sacked Trollope for the results when Akinde was on the pitch.
It's a funny old game!!
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Jan 5, 2016 20:14:19 GMT
During his time with us the size of Nathan Blissett's transfer fee from Kidderminster has often been hinted at but never revealed, but the Post have just reported that it was ''around £40,000.'' I wonder how accurate that figure is, and whether Rory Gaffney's fee would be comparable . . . if he comes that is. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 5, 2016 20:16:31 GMT
Blisset a mistake with hindsight but his goals etc helped us escape the Conference.
Parkes seems to have accepted DC made the right decision?
JJOT I doubt Ferguson would have knocked him into shape once he realised relegation gave him an escape route.
Harrison I guess you overlooked his goals last season? Not sure what he's up to this season though.
Dawson has "issues" of some kind meaning he needs to nearer his NW base, even Kiddy was apparently too far south hence his move to Tranmere
Lines it seems Mansel is simply a better option in midfield, if Lines played would you say the same about Mansel?
Mildenhall seemingly not up to the task earlier this season and not helped by clearly being on big money plus a goalie coach.
We've won 5 games drawn 1 in the last 6 with virtully every squad member playing some part in a number of those games, how can there be man management issues?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 20:23:30 GMT
During his time with us the size of Nathan Blissett's transfer fee from Kidderminster has often been hinted at but never revealed, but the Post have just reported that it was ''around £40,000.'' I wonder how accurate that figure is, and whether Rory Gaffney's fee would be comparable . . . if he comes that is. A sound source at Kiddy said 90k ;-) |
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Jan 5, 2016 20:39:16 GMT
During his time with us the size of Nathan Blissett's transfer fee from Kidderminster has often been hinted at but never revealed, but the Post have just reported that it was ''around £40,000.'' I wonder how accurate that figure is, and whether Rory Gaffney's fee would be comparable . . . if he comes that is. A sound source at Kiddy said 90k ;-) That's more or less the figure that I heard too. Hmmm.  |
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Post by mrbluesky on Jan 5, 2016 22:29:31 GMT
i just think with a good manager with burning ambition you have to produce the goods on the pitch or your out dont matter who you are.
many of his signings have been inspired and several of his loan deals as well,,others have failed but with shorter contracts and short loans its not such a big deal when it dosnt work out as long as more signings do.
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Post by DudeLebowski on Jan 5, 2016 22:48:34 GMT
Blissett gave his all & for that we could ask no more. But the facts are he isn't up to the standard of what we need for a big lad up top. In a nutshell, Gaffney is everything Bliss isn't. Goal scoring big man who isn't afraid to do the physical stuff against his marker, can get his head on the ball & has struck a golden partnership with MT.
Wether he had a falling out with DC is by the by, if you aren't good enough then you're out. Gone the days of carrying passengers, thank gawd!
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bs14gas
Robin. S. Layer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 462
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Post by bs14gas on Jan 5, 2016 23:27:26 GMT
Good post KWG, as stated, thought provoking.
As I said in another discussion, I have given up questioning DC. With such a fine line between success and failure, he could have many more perceived success with players, and we could still be in the national league. I know what I prefer!
You can't bake a cake without breaking some eggs! Judgement will be on results so I am more than happy at present.
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Post by mrbluesky on Jan 6, 2016 1:24:45 GMT
A sound source at Kiddy said 90k ;-) That's more or less the figure that I heard too. Hmmm. if we hadnt signed blissett we might still be in the conference and nobody can be sure thats true with certainty |
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Jan 6, 2016 6:49:01 GMT
"Look DC has done a sterling job this season, as the league table reflects, but are we seeing a limitation of his management. Can he only manage the Lockyers, the Sinclairs, the Mansells of this world who are solid pros, committed 100% to the club and the team? I guess there's nothing wrong with that the likes of Moyes, Pullis, Allardyce, Bruce, Warnock etc etc have built solid and sucessful teams on those attributes, but is the key reason none of those became a Ferguson or a Wenger because they couldn't handle the more complex personalities?" Good post KG All managers have their limitations. Ferguson fell out with plenty of players who were as you describe as 'solid pros', Paul Ince, Vidic, Van Nistelroy, Beckham, not sure Wenger falls out with players, he just moves them on. There are times when DC as with other managers is misquoted or his quote is taken out of context (sometimes purposely by people trying to make mischief). When DC gets to the Premiership perhaps we can make a comparison then ? |
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