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Post by warmleygas on Jul 18, 2015 21:49:51 GMT
At some point the directors will stop funding the club's losses and the court action. Plus, Wonga need paying. funding the mess they got us in in the first place. I think when they eventually leave the club they should set up the Higgs and Co. School of Business and Economics, maybe set it up in Greece.
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Post by warmleygas on Jul 18, 2015 21:56:11 GMT
I'm kinda worried all this bullsh*t with the stadium is going to cast a shadow over to his season and effect performances. What extent do any of the bod have contact with players and darrell? Is it possible the negativity will filter through to the field?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 21:58:16 GMT
The point remains, a sustainable structure is more important than a few results on the pitch. but you dont know if its any more sustainable than a steadily improved mem do you? you despise the board so how come you trust them on this project? ref debt free and fully funded? Looks like you have misunderstood what I'm saying, also, I think that your sarcasm detector was malfunctioning when you read the bit about us being promised a new ground, wholly owned and no debt. I don't despise the board, I'm hugely frustrated by what they have done to our club, but there it ends. If I knew who made the decision to tell Kevin Spencer that he was not welcome at Roger Harding's wake I may well use much stronger language, that, for me, was the lowest point of all.
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bs14gas
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Post by bs14gas on Jul 18, 2015 22:40:19 GMT
It would be interesting to know how many times an appeal has seen the first decision overturned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 22:53:52 GMT
It would be interesting to know how many times an appeal has seen the first decision overturned. You might want to narrow your parameters.
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bs14gas
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Post by bs14gas on Jul 18, 2015 22:57:15 GMT
It would be interesting to know how many times an appeal has seen the first decision overturned. You might want to narrow your parameters. ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 23:16:58 GMT
but you dont know if its any more sustainable than a steadily improved mem do you? you despise the board so how come you trust them on this project? ref debt free and fully funded? Looks like you have misunderstood what I'm saying, also, I think that your sarcasm detector was malfunctioning when you read the bit about us being promised a new ground, wholly owned and no debt. I don't despise the board, I'm hugely frustrated by what they have done to our club, but there it ends. If I knew who made the decision to tell Kevin Spencer that he was not welcome at Roger Harding's wake I may well use much stronger language, that, for me, was the lowest point of all. sorry i missed the sarcasm,,and i know nothing of the kevin spencer situation,,,thing is im not convinced by the whole sainsbury/uwe scheme and still feel doubt full that we will be better off if we win or lose this court case
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 23:26:44 GMT
I'm kinda worried all this bullsh*t with the stadium is going to cast a shadow over to his season and effect performances. What extent do any of the bod have contact with players and darrell? Is it possible the negativity will filter through to the field? i dont think it will warmleygas,,we have a good management team and players busting a gut to do well,,,,the only area it may be a problem for us is if were in a good position in april we might not be able to splash the cash to push us on as we did with lines last season
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 23:48:50 GMT
I'm kinda worried all this bullsh*t with the stadium is going to cast a shadow over to his season and effect performances. What extent do any of the bod have contact with players and darrell? Is it possible the negativity will filter through to the field? i dont think it will warmleygas,,we have a good management team and players busting a gut to do well,,,,the only area it may be a problem for us is if were in a good position in april we might not be able to splash the cash to push us on as we did with lines last season April? We've got to find £2 million to repay a loan in about October - a loan that's already cost us about a quarter of million in interest payments and will cost us another hundred grand or so by the time it's repaid. All dates and figures approximate. There may be a problem in funding the perfect squad well before you want to splash the cash in April.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 0:20:42 GMT
i dont think it will warmleygas,,we have a good management team and players busting a gut to do well,,,,the only area it may be a problem for us is if were in a good position in april we might not be able to splash the cash to push us on as we did with lines last season April? We've got to find £2 million to repay a loan in about October - a loan that's already cost us about a quarter of million in interest payments and will cost us another hundred grand or so by the time it's repaid. All dates and figures approximate. There may be a problem in funding the perfect squad well before you want to splash the cash in April. thanks,,im not legally or financially trained but i believe the budget was set based on us losing the case so i dont see a problem but of course you may be correct. i have a football background but i must admit not a financial or legal one so i bow to your greater knowledge if your a lawyer or finance expert
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 19, 2015 0:26:17 GMT
Really? Based on reading through this thread I'd see increasingly tedious times and endless discussion legal process. For the record I don't pretend any great knowledge of the British legal system nor do I have any desire to speculate on possible implications. The problem is I'm no longer remotely confident that Nick Higgs is capable of making these decisions either based on previous experience. If it costs nothing to establish the basis for appeal then that seems fair enough to me but the message that is going out strikes me as somewhat desperate and highlights lack of any backup plan. When people talk about Nick Higgs 'progressive vision' etc I'm more and more thinking the emperors new clothes. Anyone can have a vision - it's making that vision a reality that is the difficult bit and that seems to be what BRFC consistently fails to achieve. As someone has pointed you could decorate a small mansion with designs for stadium's and accordant press releases Rovers have put out over the years. Nothing wrong with the vision there - delivery on the other hand has been completely lacking. You need a bit more hard headed approach than blind faith that if we keep plodding on then eventually it'll all work in our favour because.....well, why exactly seems increasingly difficult for anyone to actually pin down. Some lawyers think it's worth a pop but what % of success do people think is worth going for? Some people give the impression they'd happily continue to rack up the debts on this for a puncher's chance of winning an appeal. That's even assuming the money would still be sufficient to build the damn thing when all this may finally be over. I don't base my opinion on law - I base it on a more nebulous feel for events. There was a time when it felt like everything was flowing our way, now it feels like we're a doctor desperately trying to resuscitate a patient who we just can't bring ourselves to accept has gone. I'd probably speculate that the club knows it has little chance of winning the appeal but is spinning this out for 2 years to keep UWE onside in the hope that a Plan B will materialise from somewhere. Maybe that even makes sense in the crazy way our club is run.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jul 19, 2015 6:07:08 GMT
I completely understand the frustration and negativity thrust into this thread. And I am equally culpable for criticising the board, chairman and box 1 for previous activity.
But:
If NH has sought advice from legal expert (unless some of you qualify), then why would he not take it?
In any instance of court proceedings, would any of you ignore solicitor / barrister advice if you were in there?
If it emerged some years later that he had an opportunity to appeal the legal wrangle, and didn't, then that would be basis of criticism too.
I'm not trying to wind anyone up or seek attention, but I believe NH thought he had a watertight case. And in a way he is stuck because whatever he does next regarding appeal / no appeal, he is going to get slated.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 19, 2015 6:46:12 GMT
I completely understand the frustration and negativity thrust into this thread. And I am equally culpable for criticising the board, chairman and box 1 for previous activity. But: If NH has sought advice from legal expert (unless some of you qualify), then why would he not take it? In any instance of court proceedings, would any of you ignore solicitor / barrister advice if you were in there? If it emerged some years later that he had an opportunity to appeal the legal wrangle, and didn't, then that would be basis of criticism too. I'm not trying to wind anyone up or seek attention, but I believe NH thought he had a watertight case. And in a way he is stuck because whatever he does next regarding appeal / no appeal, he is going to get slated. Of course i understand why he would appeal if give advice that we have a strong chance. What was worries me as Irish put as wonderful as always os the blind spot of trying to make it happen whatever the cost and everything falling around him. The reason to not appeal is because we have a huge.debt to repay. I assume the BoD or whats left of it are going to pay it back now. If so why not put the capital in, in the first place and 'save' the interest. Im also worried about it because obviously Watola is involved We were told their was a plan B. So logically an appeal must outweigh plan b on any sort of pros/cons etc However more likely plan b is just a myth. Finally i think people say dont appeal because they have no faith in those in charge. Who can take anything the board ssy.seriously. they have zero creibility We could be just about to enter another couple of years of stagnation hoping for something to turn up or go are way and.that just makese go urghhhhh
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jul 19, 2015 6:55:04 GMT
I completely understand the frustration and negativity thrust into this thread. And I am equally culpable for criticising the board, chairman and box 1 for previous activity. But: If NH has sought advice from legal expert (unless some of you qualify), then why would he not take it? In any instance of court proceedings, would any of you ignore solicitor / barrister advice if you were in there? If it emerged some years later that he had an opportunity to appeal the legal wrangle, and didn't, then that would be basis of criticism too. I'm not trying to wind anyone up or seek attention, but I believe NH thought he had a watertight case. And in a way he is stuck because whatever he does next regarding appeal / no appeal, he is going to get slated. Of course i understand why he would appeal if give advice that we have a strong chance. What was worries me as Irish put as wonderful as always os the blind spot of trying to make it happen whatever the cost and everything falling around him. The reason to not appeal is because we have a huge.debt to repay. I assume the BoD or whats left of it are going to pay it back now. If so why not put the capital in, in the first place and 'save' the interest. Im also worried about it because obviously Watola is involved We were told their was a plan B. So logically an appeal must outweigh plan b on any sort of pros/cons etc However more likely plan b is just a myth. Finally i think people say dont appeal because they have no faith in those in charge. Who can take anything the board ssy.seriously. they have zero creibility We could be just about to enter another couple of years of stagnation hoping for something to turn up or go are way and.that just makese go urghhhhh I get all that. I was trying to put over a supportive, positive post. I got it wrong as I genuinely thought we would win the case, but in either circumstance tried to urge supportiveness (is that a word??!!). If, and it's a big IF, one case in the country similar to ours goes to appeal in the future, and Shamesbury's lose, folk who criticise chastise and vent anger may probably come back and ask why we didn't appeal in the first place when had a chance! With justification.. I agree with exploring all avenues.
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Post by brfcwerton on Jul 19, 2015 7:12:47 GMT
When trashhorfield appealed against the building of a new Sainsbury's store on the Mem I investigated what the chances of any appeal being successful are . the national average success rate is 2- 3 % about 1 in 40 . Therefore chances of the Rovers appeal being successful are remote. Lawyers always tell clients they have a good chance of succeeding as they want the clients money, I told trashorfield this at the time but they ignored me and lost. So most likely Rovers will also loose their appeal. AS most of the ground work has already been done appeals are not so expensive as the original court case. Rovers say they have spent £500,000 so far so with that and possibly paying out some of Sainsbury costs the whole cost could be between £700,000 and £ One million .
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jul 19, 2015 7:26:17 GMT
The chances of us winning the appeal are 50/50.
We either will, or we won't!
*wink!*
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 19, 2015 7:58:37 GMT
When trashhorfield appealed against the building of a new Sainsbury's store on the Mem I investigated what the chances of any appeal being successful are . the national average success rate is 2- 3 % about 1 in 40 . Therefore chances of the Rovers appeal being successful are remote. Lawyers always tell clients they have a good chance of succeeding as they want the clients money, I told trashorfield this at the time but they ignored me and lost. So most likely Rovers will also loose their appeal. AS most of the ground work has already been done appeals are not so expensive as the original court case. Rovers say they have spent £500,000 so far so with that and possibly paying out some of Sainsbury costs the whole cost could be between £700,000 and £ One million . Wasn't Trashorfield a JR rather than an actual High Court Appeal? What concerns me is the speed at which NH indicated he intended Appealing, had he really had time to take a Barrister's advice, or was it simply a case of him not preparing to accept defeat? Even if we win the Appeal Sainsbury's will most likely challenge the change in the verdict, I'm sure NH would in the same position!, meaning this could take 2 or 3 years to resolve. When trashhorfield appealed against the building of a new Sainsbury's store on the Mem I investigated what the chances of any appeal being successful are . the national average success rate is 2- 3 % about 1 in 40 . Therefore chances of the Rovers appeal being successful are remote. Lawyers always tell clients they have a good chance of succeeding as they want the clients money, I told trashorfield this at the time but they ignored me and lost. So most likely Rovers will also loose their appeal. AS most of the ground work has already been done appeals are not so expensive as the original court case. Rovers say they have spent £500,000 so far so with that and possibly paying out some of Sainsbury costs the whole cost could be between £700,000 and £ One million . Wasn't Trashorfield a JR rather than an actual High Court Appeal?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jul 19, 2015 8:23:17 GMT
You know, I would never be surprised if TRASH were funded or part funded by Shamesbury's. Or their third party..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 8:44:14 GMT
Seth will confirm but is it not true that an appeal can only be made on a point of law. Surely the basis of the appeal could then be made public?
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Post by The Concept on Jul 19, 2015 9:04:21 GMT
The feeling I got from the decision was that Justice Proudman was trying to side with BRFC (or had sympathies with BRFC) and had attempted to find a precedent from a previous case, but in the end had to go with her reading of the contract deadline.
The wording in the judgement opened up an element of doubt "... If this is wrong (and I do not think it is), I find that the Club must succeed.”
The club's statement says "... the club’s legal team have advised us we have positive grounds on which to appeal." I've a few questions, if anyone is able to help:
1/ Is the advice the club has been given to appeal from the same legal team that advised us previously? If you are having building work carried out on your house it's the norm to take 2 or 3 quotes; surely the same should be applied to advice on a case of this magnitude.
2/ Does the appeal have to be against the decision, or can fresh evidence, or points not previously taken into consideration, be used in the appeal?
3/ Can the appeal cite previous cases that set precedents that can be applied to our case?
If 3/ is true then can our legal team please start their research now and start earning their fees.
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