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Post by mentors on Jul 18, 2015 18:59:41 GMT
and sure as eggs IF JS lose this appeal, then they themselves will lodge an appeal, this will bve forever the magic roundabout,unless after the 3rd 4th 5th hearing a QC will give instruction for no further appeal on certain grounds You can only appeal a High Court decision to the Court of Appeal. You can only appeal a Court of Appeal decision to the Supreme Court so only one more stage after this one. It still takes years though. Haven't you explained this before...quite recently I believe M'Lord
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 19:01:49 GMT
The brewery loan is paid isn't it? I thought that was part of the debt called in by Barclays and what a big chunk of the Wonga money was used for. How about people turn their frustration towards Barclays, they didn't have to call that loan in and leave Higgs scuttling off to a sub-prime lender. I thought that Geoff's loans were paid and that the only significant external debt was to Wonga. Hard to see anyone sane paying an administrator to fire-sale a £10m asset to settle a £2m debt, and at the same time lose control of the asset that their personal loans are secured against. You are right, Wonga will have a charge on the stadium, if we arrive at a point in time where they need to be paid and the directors can't / won't raise the money then it could get very messy. Did Barclays call in the loan or simply get nervous when NH suggested he wanted to double it? Perhaps they saw the legal advice and thought NH was mad to take on Sainsbury's when he was bound to lose? Regardless Barclays aren't a charity and they can decide who and what they want to loan. The big problem will come when we have to pay off the Wonga loan given it's unlikely our Appeal will have been heard by then, does NH extend it further and so incurr more interest or admit we can't afford to repay it? We were told that the loan period expired and that they didn't want to renew it, so, because they are big meanies we had to go to Wonga. Wonder when the Barclay's protests will start? I'm sure that between them the BoD could raise £2.3m, which makes the decision to borrow the money at 1.2% interest per month even stranger.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Jul 18, 2015 19:01:59 GMT
None of us really know but the concern is NH originally said the contract was watertight when we now know that was far from the truth. Plus we can all read the Judgement and unless, after weeks of deliberations, unless she got it totally wrong Sainsbury's appeared to have the perfect get out clause. It seems this is just NH last desperate throw of the dice, in the meantime we face at least an extra season in the run down Mem, possibly years more. and if Nick Higgs never got involved in trying to improve us with a new stadium, we would still be in this sh*t tip of a ground Henbury, I'm sure you mean well but we are still in the 'sh*t tip of a ground' as you describe it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 19:12:03 GMT
and if Nick Higgs never got involved in trying to improve us with a new stadium, we would still be in this sh*t tip of a ground Henbury, I'm sure you mean well but we are still in the 'sh*t tip of a ground' as you describe it. not for long, henburys mate in planning told him an american venue management team are coming or sommat like that
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The Gas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 484
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Post by The Gas on Jul 18, 2015 19:36:20 GMT
When we lose the appeal/get told we don't have leave to appeal, Wonga come calling. Assuming the board just lend the club another £2m with interest, the internal debt goes up again. Given that no retail company in their right mind would touch it given our legal history and the NIMBY **** of Bishopston, the value of the Mem as an asset depends on how much a company can purchase it for housing. That's significantly less than the value for a retail development. All it would take is an external creditor to come knocking after that (the brewery, or a former director maybe) and the cards start to fall. The brewery loan is paid isn't it? I thought that was part of the debt called in by Barclays and what a big chunk of the Wonga money was used for. How about people turn their frustration towards Barclays, they didn't have to call that loan in and leave Higgs scuttling off to a sub-prime lender. I thought that Geoff's loans were paid and that the only significant external debt was to Wonga. Hard to see anyone sane paying an administrator to fire-sale a £10m asset to settle a £2m debt, and at the same time lose control of the asset that their personal loans are secured against. You are right, Wonga will have a charge on the stadium, if we arrive at a point in time where they need to be paid and the directors can't / won't raise the money then it could get very messy. Sorry, Sir Geoffrey's loan was only partly paid, he is still owed £620,120 (2014 accounts) and all the other Directors loans of £1,396,671 (2014 accounts) also still outstanding, plus others loans of £49,326 to other non Directors.
I just hope a substantial part of the Wonga loan is still available
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 19:43:49 GMT
The brewery loan is paid isn't it? I thought that was part of the debt called in by Barclays and what a big chunk of the Wonga money was used for. How about people turn their frustration towards Barclays, they didn't have to call that loan in and leave Higgs scuttling off to a sub-prime lender. I thought that Geoff's loans were paid and that the only significant external debt was to Wonga. Hard to see anyone sane paying an administrator to fire-sale a £10m asset to settle a £2m debt, and at the same time lose control of the asset that their personal loans are secured against. You are right, Wonga will have a charge on the stadium, if we arrive at a point in time where they need to be paid and the directors can't / won't raise the money then it could get very messy. Sorry, Sir Geoffrey's loan was only partly paid, he is still owed somewhere in excess of £800k and all the other Directors loans are also still outstanding, as is the substantial loan provided by NH.
I just hope a substantial part of the Wonga loan is still available
Is that a loan from Geoff or his investment in shares? The rest of the stuff mentioned is internal debt, I'm sure you agree, they won't put the company into administration to service internal debt? If that Wonga money has been sat in a bank doing nothing whilst we are being charged 1.2% per-month, then we borrowed the wrong amount, didn't we?
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dagnogo
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Post by dagnogo on Jul 18, 2015 19:53:56 GMT
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The Gas
Joined: May 2014
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Post by The Gas on Jul 18, 2015 19:57:15 GMT
Sorry, Sir Geoffrey's loan was only partly paid, he is still owed somewhere in excess of £800k and all the other Directors loans are also still outstanding, as is the substantial loan provided by NH.
I just hope a substantial part of the Wonga loan is still available
Is that a loan from Geoff or his investment in shares? The rest of the stuff mentioned is internal debt, I'm sure you agree, they won't put the company into administration to service internal debt? If that Wonga money has been sat in a bank doing nothing whilst we are being charged 1.2% per-month, then we borrowed the wrong amount, didn't we? £477,054 to Deltavon Developments and £143,066 to Sir Geoffrey £792,083 to Nick Higgs £186,346 to Rodney King £409,952 to Barry Bradshaw £8,290 to Edward Ware
£49,326 to G Bradshaw and I Bradshaw
In addition there are 1 to 3 year Bonds totalling £1,774,621outstanding
These are the figures up to 30/06/2014. I'm not sure if Nick Higgs has provided more financial assistance since that date.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 20:02:43 GMT
Is that a loan from Geoff or his investment in shares? The rest of the stuff mentioned is internal debt, I'm sure you agree, they won't put the company into administration to service internal debt? If that Wonga money has been sat in a bank doing nothing whilst we are being charged 1.2% per-month, then we borrowed the wrong amount, didn't we? £477,054 to Deltavon Developments and £143,066 to Sir Geoffrey £792,083 to Nick Higgs £186,346 to Rodney King £409,952 to Barry Bradshaw £8,290 to Edward Ware
£49,326 to G Bradshaw and I Bradshaw
These are the figures up to 30/06/2014. I'm not sure if Nick Higgs has provided more financial assistance since that date.
Thank you. So, the external debt is, in round terms; Bradshaw £50k Geoff £620k Suppliers? Wonga £2.6m?
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The Gas
Joined: May 2014
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Post by The Gas on Jul 18, 2015 20:07:56 GMT
£477,054 to Deltavon Developments and £143,066 to Sir Geoffrey £792,083 to Nick Higgs £186,346 to Rodney King £409,952 to Barry Bradshaw £8,290 to Edward Ware
£49,326 to G Bradshaw and I Bradshaw
These are the figures up to 30/06/2014. I'm not sure if Nick Higgs has provided more financial assistance since that date.
Thank you. So, the external debt is, in round terms; Bradshaw £50k Geoff £620k Suppliers? Wonga £2.6m? Sorry, see revised figures to include Bonds totalling £1,774,621 owing to the Directors which I overlooked.
That totals £3,840,738
This does NOT include the value of the Directors and ex Directors shareholding.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Jul 18, 2015 20:22:37 GMT
Thank you. So, the external debt is, in round terms; Bradshaw £50k Geoff £620k Suppliers? Wonga £2.6m? Sorry, see revised figures to include Bonds totalling £1,774,621 owing to the Directors which I overlooked.
That totals £3,840,738
This does NOT include the value of the Directors and ex Directors shareholding.
Oh well, so not that bad really
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The Gas
Joined: May 2014
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Post by The Gas on Jul 18, 2015 20:28:43 GMT
Sorry, see revised figures to include Bonds totalling £1,774,621 owing to the Directors which I overlooked.
That totals £3,840,738
This does NOT include the value of the Directors and ex Directors shareholding.
Oh well, so not that bad really It just proves how much any new investor/owner is likely to have to cough up if they want to buy the club.
Now where was that suggestion that the "fans" could try to buy the club.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Jul 18, 2015 20:52:37 GMT
Oh well, so not that bad really It just proves how much any new investor/owner is likely to have to cough up if they want to buy the club.
Now where was that suggestion that the "fans" could try to buy the club.
Unlikely really isn't it, fans already finance/own the club, it's just that many other fans don't think they are doing a very good job of it at the moment. There is no guarantee that another group of fans financing/owning the club will do any better......
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dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
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Post by dagnogo on Jul 18, 2015 21:07:09 GMT
It just proves how much any new investor/owner is likely to have to cough up if they want to buy the club.
Now where was that suggestion that the "fans" could try to buy the club.
Unlikely really isn't it, fans already finance/own the club, it's just that many other fans don't think they are doing a very good job of it at the moment. There is no guarantee that another group of fans financing/owning the club will do any better...... They couldn't do much worse. But as you say, it ain't gonna happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 21:16:43 GMT
Oh well, so not that bad really It just proves how much any new investor/owner is likely to have to cough up if they want to buy the club.
Now where was that suggestion that the "fans" could try to buy the club.
I don't think that the price that Higgs would want to walk away would be set by the debt, it would be set by what he things the stadium is worth.
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 18, 2015 21:26:04 GMT
You believe what is in the Evil Post? You are right Nick Higgs was qouted. Shouldnt beleive anything that comes out of his mouth
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 21:26:24 GMT
is it? do we know if we will be better off 5 years from now if we win or lose the case? also as i said most people including me have no idea of complex legal matters.,,, should we appeal,,none of us know do we? Yes, a fully funded stadium (as promised) being debt free (as promised) and the BoD demonstrating that they are in control of the club's destiny is more important than winning or losing any one game. like i said then we dont know if we will be better off or not
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 21:31:40 GMT
Yes, a fully funded stadium (as promised) being debt free (as promised) and the BoD demonstrating that they are in control of the club's destiny is more important than winning or losing any one game. like i said then we dont know if we will be better off or not The point remains, a sustainable structure is more important than a few results on the pitch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 21:40:14 GMT
like i said then we dont know if we will be better off or not The point remains, a sustainable structure is more important than a few results on the pitch. but you dont know if its any more sustainable than a steadily improved mem do you? you despise the board so how come you trust them on this project? ref debt free and fully funded?
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Post by warmleygas on Jul 18, 2015 21:44:51 GMT
Surely we would only appeal if our lawyers believed there was a decent chance of winning the appeal. If there is a chance surely we should try. Appreciate any advice given might be economical with the truth but surely it's better to try than to give up. Christ if Rovers gave up every time there was another hurdle put in the way......! As for the financial implications let's hope Nick is funding this in its entirety! of course our lawyers at going to say there is a realistic chance of winning, the appeal will be very lucrative to them! Sainsburys obviously will have far superior lawyers to ours they can afford them.
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