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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jul 15, 2015 16:02:35 GMT
Newport County driven by the owner wanting out so he can live in the Caribbean and also the fact he is willing to accept a loss on his investment. Personally think fan owned clubs are not the way forward and will lead to stagnation, at best, and s slow demise at worst. Of course private ownership may go that way as well depending on the abilities of the owners. Personally wouldn't touch it with a barge pole unless there was an exit strategy from the start. And that's all before you consider that a few hundred of us fans on here can barely agree if DC is or isn't the best man for the job, so what hope on other decisions? Good luck though Cheers, I hope this means you are in favour - firstly, I'm looking for people to say I back this and then we can take it from there. Think you missed the barge pole comment Mark
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dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 872
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Post by dagnogo on Jul 15, 2015 17:14:16 GMT
Before you talk of a buyout, you need a price.
If Higgs still thinks the UWE will happen, leaving him to sell a debt free club and get his money back, he's insane.
If he doesn't, then he must be looking for a buyer - doesn't take a genius to work out that he'll look for one that will give him some of his money back.
Option 3 is when most fans' groups enter the fray - administration. If the debts owed to the board for their disgraceful mismanagement and greed were reduced by say 90% thanks to admin, you may be in with a shout.
But the idea that all of those b'stards who have mismanaged our football club will sell it to the fans and keep the debts on the books in case we find the money is mad.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 15, 2015 17:34:32 GMT
Then he will have to keep pumping his money in then. No investor will take over the club and pay back a previous owner for all his cock ups. I am sure he will continue to bale out the Club as he is a genuine fan. Bail the club out of his own bloody errors and continual disputes and appeals. He is not risking a penny of his own money & it's guaranteed back. I would command him if he was risking something but he is not.
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Post by droitwichgas on Jul 15, 2015 18:05:12 GMT
We're "only" £5.5m in debt so he can't have loaned that amount as surely the Wonga loan is secured against the Mem?
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Post by Gregory Stevens on Jul 15, 2015 18:10:53 GMT
Fantasy land, buy out Higgs after years fund raising and wait another 40 years to raise funds to buy a player.
Football doesn't usually make money so I won't be donating 10k of my savings to a black hole
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jul 15, 2015 18:32:35 GMT
DO we supporters just now sit back and accept another failure at our club ? What is the future going to be like if we carry on under the stewardship of Nick Higgs and Co ? At best a yo-yo club between L2 and The Conference I suspect. It's not good enough for me and I hope for you - PLEASE READ ON ! A group of fans (as big or as small as necessary) get together to form a BRFC Supporters Trust (like at Newport County now and Pompey a year ago) and start raising money from supporters like you and me and also HOPEFULLY the wealthier ones to pledge substantial money in order to buy out Higgs and Co. For me, relegation into Conference was the straw that broke the footballing Camel's back and now the stadium disaster is the straw that broke the management of the club's back !! I'm prepared to give a lot of my time to get something going ( I did so by forming and running The Wellie Group - so you know I put my effort where my mouth is). I have ears that will help publicise this in the media. I will also contribute some money (don't have much sadly - I will pledge 1000 - 2000 quid) but every hundreds/thousands of pounds COULD count. So Gasheads, let's get into action, let's save our club and claim it back and RUN IT PROPERLY !! Spread the word if you think it could possibly work. Let's consider getting people together to discuss how it could all be possible. We continue to support the team, but in the meantime we can try to help make a better future for our club. So 1.) Do you support exploring this project ? 2.) Would you pledge money if it was 100 % organised and transparent ? 3.) Would you give up some of your time to attend meetings / research ideas/ collate information etc ? There's NOTHING to fear, probably hardly anything to lose and at least you'll know YOU HAVE DONE YOUR BIT to help potentially change our club for the better P.S. Those who are anti this idea - PLEASE don't have a go at me I DON'T CARE ! Mark Czekalski a Gashead for 40 plus years ( my Dad a Gashead, brothers Gasheads, Nephews Gasheads and my little son A Gashead !! funnist post so far
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Post by thecyclist on Jul 15, 2015 19:07:42 GMT
DO we supporters just now sit back and accept another failure at our club ? What is the future going to be like if we carry on under the stewardship of Nick Higgs and Co ? At best a yo-yo club between L2 and The Conference I suspect. It's not good enough for me and I hope for you - PLEASE READ ON ! A group of fans (as big or as small as necessary) get together to form a BRFC Supporters Trust (like at Newport County now and Pompey a year ago) and start raising money from supporters like you and me and also HOPEFULLY the wealthier ones to pledge substantial money in order to buy out Higgs and Co. For me, relegation into Conference was the straw that broke the footballing Camel's back and now the stadium disaster is the straw that broke the management of the club's back !! I'm prepared to give a lot of my time to get something going ( I did so by forming and running The Wellie Group - so you know I put my effort where my mouth is). I have ears that will help publicise this in the media. I will also contribute some money (don't have much sadly - I will pledge 1000 - 2000 quid) but every hundreds/thousands of pounds COULD count. So Gasheads, let's get into action, let's save our club and claim it back and RUN IT PROPERLY !! Spread the word if you think it could possibly work. Let's consider getting people together to discuss how it could all be possible. We continue to support the team, but in the meantime we can try to help make a better future for our club. So 1.) Do you support exploring this project ? 2.) Would you pledge money if it was 100 % organised and transparent ? 3.) Would you give up some of your time to attend meetings / research ideas/ collate information etc ? There's NOTHING to fear, probably hardly anything to lose and at least you'll know YOU HAVE DONE YOUR BIT to help potentially change our club for the better P.S. Those who are anti this idea - PLEASE don't have a go at me I DON'T CARE ! Mark Czekalski a Gashead for 40 plus years ( my Dad a Gashead, brothers Gasheads, Nephews Gasheads and my little son A Gashead !! funnist post so far Well, I get the impression that you have fairly consistently supported the board and been fairly bullish in giving positive messages that UWE would be delivered, so where would you suggest the supporters look now? I'm far from convinced at Mark's idea but surely Higgs and co need to move on as they have only delivered abject failure.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 15, 2015 19:49:57 GMT
Firstly you would need to have a chairman that was prepared to sell and he is not, he would not allow Darryl Eaves in. If you could get him to consider it then I back the idea Mark.
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Post by markczgas on Jul 15, 2015 21:54:04 GMT
thanks to everyone who have responded with some sensible comments. We should wait for others who haven't read it to chip in. I'm under no illusions what this is all about. I would ask anyone who is interested or think they are in looking into this to pm me over the next few days. I think initially the aim would be to get together with the aim of finding out what would be required to push forward and establish a steering group.
Cheers,
Mark
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SE5 Gas
Joined: July 2014
Posts: 113
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Post by SE5 Gas on Jul 15, 2015 22:01:30 GMT
Nail on the head Chewy. Only when the club is on its knees will the board come begging for engagement and a supporters trust. Ooh, so close. Last time it was on its knees it refused to engage with a Trust and set up its own puppet version of the model, later diluting the shareholding that its £1 million bought (it was only a donation scheme, apparently). The legacy is that two representative fans are on the board, making no difference whatsoever. I hugely respect markczgas's drive and the principle he lays out but it assumes the board would support it. It won't. Fair play Mark for looking in to this... I for one would be well up for supporting you... As for the diluted supporters club that Seth mentions... they have been making noises about considering converting themselves in to a supporters trust. What are the opinions of the members on here? Surely the board could not refuse to engage if the numbers were there. I know these guys www.supporters-direct.org/ have given very valuable support and advice to the fans at Newport, Portsmouth, Wimbledon, Bath city etc... who have set up supporters trusts
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Post by interceptor on Jul 16, 2015 6:48:34 GMT
The wisest way to spend your money on Rovers is buying a ticket to every match you can afford, home and away. The biggest vote you have is with your feet. I suspect that every player and member of staff at the club would prefer the biggest single body of stakeholders (the fans) to invest weekly, annually on that basis. If we all take that attitude our debts will decrease, our ability to attract the right players/management will increase, our progression through the leagues will be greatly assisted and ultimately we have the best chance of attracting additional or replacement funding. It's actually cash flow and success that is critical right now. We have the best manager and crop of players we could hope to have, given our recent history, and they need our support with as little non football distraction as possible. If you can take 30,000 fans to Wembley for the conference playoffs, you only need a third of those and some decent visiting fans to fill the mem. As soon as you achieve this on a regular basis BRFC start the turn around. I would far rather invest this way than give away my hard earned cash to be a minority shareholder, only to pay again to watch every week!
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 16, 2015 7:01:09 GMT
Ooh, so close. Last time it was on its knees it refused to engage with a Trust and set up its own puppet version of the model, later diluting the shareholding that its £1 million bought (it was only a donation scheme, apparently). The legacy is that two representative fans are on the board, making no difference whatsoever. I hugely respect markczgas's drive and the principle he lays out but it assumes the board would support it. It won't. Fair play Mark for looking in to this... I for one would be well up for supporting you... As for the diluted supporters club that Seth mentions... they have been making noises about considering converting themselves in to a supporters trust. What are the opinions of the members on here? Surely the board could not refuse to engage if the numbers were there. I know these guys www.supporters-direct.org/ have given very valuable support and advice to the fans at Newport, Portsmouth, Wimbledon, Bath city etc... who have set up supporters trusts The SC have been talking about becoming a trust?
Why is that and who has put that idea out there?
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Til Oi Die
Nigel Martyn
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 20
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Post by Til Oi Die on Jul 16, 2015 11:18:20 GMT
Can someone relay what happened to the Gastrust last time round? Didnt participate but how was there not protection against dilution? Did the dirctors vote through issuing of new shares? Its a pretty straight-forward matter to roll anti-dilution provisions into a Share(stake)holders Agreement.
The obvious approach is to raise the capital and only offer the investment IF all existing shareholders sign up to a standard SHA. There could be all sorts of restrictions in that agreement. The board either accepts them, or it finds alternatives.
Seems we arent too good at legal agreements..
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 11:24:37 GMT
Can someone relay what happened to the Gastrust last time round? Didnt participate but how was there not protection against dilution? Did the dirctors vote through issuing of new shares? Its a pretty straight-forward matter to roll anti-dilution provisions into a Share(stake)holders Agreement. The obvious approach is to raise the capital and only offer the investment IF all existing shareholders sign up to a standard SHA. There could be all sorts of restrictions in that agreement. The board either accepts them, or it finds alternatives. Seems we arent too good at legal agreements.. You are mixing up the Gas Trust with the Supporters Club. The board refused to have anything to do with the Trust and without any way of representing their members folded, twice. The dilution of Supporters Club and every other shareholders share holding was at first defeated by a show of hands by shareholders at an EGM but was later passed after a share count of board members including the Supporters who backed the proposal.
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Til Oi Die
Nigel Martyn
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 20
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Post by Til Oi Die on Jul 16, 2015 11:33:24 GMT
I was given my great grandmothers will a while back. She was a publican in St Pauls and her assets included 20 shares in 'Rovers Football Club' valued at £1/share. According to Google thats equivalent to £1300 in todays money.
Seems there may have been others before the Gastrust that had their shares in the club devalued ... either that or still I own part of the club!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 11:36:58 GMT
I was given my great grandmothers will a while back. She was a publican in St Pauls and her assets included 20 shares in 'Rovers Football Club' valued at £1/share. According to Google thats equivalent to £1300 in todays money. Seems there may have been others before the Gastrust that had their shares in the club devalued ... either that or still I own part of the club! Have you ever asked for the shares to be transferred into your name from your Grandmothers otherwise you won't be the legal owner of these shares. Actually, is it the newest share certificate which should be Bristol Rovers (1883) ltd otherwise the piece of paper that you have will be just that. edit: to change the ownership you have to seek permission from the board.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 11:42:41 GMT
Can someone relay what happened to the Gastrust last time round? Didnt participate but how was there not protection against dilution? Did the dirctors vote through issuing of new shares? Its a pretty straight-forward matter to roll anti-dilution provisions into a Share(stake)holders Agreement. The obvious approach is to raise the capital and only offer the investment IF all existing shareholders sign up to a standard SHA. There could be all sorts of restrictions in that agreement. The board either accepts them, or it finds alternatives. Seems we arent too good at legal agreements.. You are mixing up the Gas Trust with the Supporters Club. The board refused to have anything to do with the Trust and without any way of representing their members folded, twice. The dilution of Supporters Club and every other shareholders share holding was at first defeated by a show of hands by shareholders at an EGM but was later passed after a share count of board members including the Supporters who backed the proposal. As I recall, one of the 2 Share Scheme directors voted in favour, the other was reluctant to admit what he did, but muttered something along the lines of having 'removed himself from the process'.
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Til Oi Die
Nigel Martyn
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 20
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Post by Til Oi Die on Jul 16, 2015 12:11:45 GMT
I was given my great grandmothers will a while back. She was a publican in St Pauls and her assets included 20 shares in 'Rovers Football Club' valued at £1/share. According to Google thats equivalent to £1300 in todays money. Seems there may have been others before the Gastrust that had their shares in the club devalued ... either that or still I own part of the club! Have you ever asked for the shares to be transferred into your name from your Grandmothers otherwise you won't be the legal owner of these shares. Actually, is it the newest share certificate which should be Bristol Rovers (1883) ltd otherwise the piece of paper that you have will be just that. edit: to change the ownership you have to seek permission from the board. The will was from 1913! No-one else in the family had any knowldge of it, so I doubt tracing ownership back would be all that easy! Just saying that local people have obviously sunk a fair bit of cash into the club over the years and for there to be no trace of that now points to the problems of being a minority shareholder. Thanks though..
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Til Oi Die
Nigel Martyn
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 20
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Post by Til Oi Die on Jul 16, 2015 12:20:08 GMT
You are mixing up the Gas Trust with the Supporters Club. The board refused to have anything to do with the Trust and without any way of representing their members folded, twice. The dilution of Supporters Club and every other shareholders share holding was at first defeated by a show of hands by shareholders at an EGM but was later passed after a share count of board members including the Supporters who backed the proposal. As I recall, one of the 2 Share Scheme directors voted in favour, the other was reluctant to admit what he did, but muttered something along the lines of having 'removed himself from the process'. And they both then stood down? For being rubbish. Thats just poor. Shouldnt they have ben appointed to the board with a mandate to only vote on material matters after taking a direct mandate from the Supporters Club paying members? Stick it up for the members to vote on and then send the representative into battle. Was everyone a bit too trusting here? Are there any provisions that prevent shareholders having a rights issue? Couldnt the remaining share scheme directors call for new equity to be issued as a deeply discounted rights issue? Higgs and Co either stump up cash to stand their corner and not dilute or we absorb their rights and dilute them dowm. As long as the supporters have cash to do this we keep going until they are out or a minority. There is nothing stopping the supporters having a interested party in the shadows funding this..
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 16, 2015 12:32:21 GMT
bristolroverssc.co.uk/share-scheme/I quote from there: "The Share Scheme was developed to allow the Supporters Club to buy shares in Rovers and at the same time provide a valuable income to the club to help address their operational losses. " Doesn't seem to mention another and main 'original' objective for the scheme to achieve a blocking share in ownership of the ground.
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