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Post by droitwichgas on Aug 22, 2021 7:30:41 GMT
Why did you keep talking about an exit route, what signs are they Wael ever intends exiting the club, if he was thinking along those lines why would he be spending £m's at The Quarters as there's zero chance he'll get most of that back even if he sells the club?
I sense you're as deluded as the SC/PC in thinking that one day Wael will be gone and everything will be rosy for them again.
In my view relationships need to be built on the basis Wael's not going anywhere, not that he'll be gone in the next 5 year or so.
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Post by The Concept on Aug 22, 2021 9:13:49 GMT
I agree that this a good Open Letter from Wael, and is what was needed. But I don't think all of a sudden it has made everything clear. The issue of programmes / 50/50 / volunteers is still clouded for me - perhaps this is what O2 alludes to in the remark "The whole story referring the volunteers has not come out yet..." in the PC thread. Friday 13th August. Matchday Guide - Rovers v Stevenage:www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/2021/august/match-guide-stevenage/Matchday Programme The Pirate will run as a 32-page edition for league games this season, priced at £2.50. These will be available to purchase at kiosks around the ground and in-store at the club Superstore. These can also be purchased online. Saturday 14th August.- We get to the ground, no programme sellers or 50/50 draw ticket sellers. Later on social media people saying they bought one in the club shop, others saying they found them at a pasty hut, suggestions that it's to do with going cashless. - Going back to the 'Matchday Guide' above: the word "kiosks" is a bit woolly; had it said 'food/refreshment kiosk' or 'pasty hut', it would have been clearer. Over the next few days more rumours over social media as to what is going on. Monday 16th August. Supporters Club Statement on 50/50:bristolroverssc.co.uk/supporters-club-statement-on-50-50/As you will be aware, if you attended Saturday’s match, there were no 50/50 draw tickets on sale at the Memorial Stadium.
The reason for this is that the Club’s Commercial Director informed the Supporters Club that he didn’t want us selling tickets because he wanted to take the draw in house, despite the fact that the draw has never been anything other than a Supporters Club initiative since its inception on the Rovers return to Bristol in 1996.
The Supporters Club has always provided sellers and workers (all volunteers), and paid for the tickets, programme trolleys and all necessary equipment under our City Council Licence throughout.Friday 20th August. Club President's Open Letter to Fans...www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/2021/august/club-presidents-open-letter/The next issue I would like to address is the 50/50 match day draw and programme sellers. Unfortunately, as a result of the breakdown of the relationship with the Supporters' Club, our loyal volunteers who make the draw happen have been caught in the middle and they have been unable to provide their usual excellent services for the first two home fixtures of the season.
I am pleased to say that on Tuesday night we were able to invite those special volunteers into the Club to invite them to enjoy the game against Oldham in hospitality as our guests. We are now working with them directly to ensure that they are back on their posts by the next home league game. I would like to place on record my personal thanks to all volunteers for their continued hard work and dedication that they have shown this football club over many years. So we know that: - The FC produce the programme, there is an editor who then arranges volunteers in the fanbase to contribute articles. - The SC created the 50/50 draw, bought the programme trolleys, provided the volunteers, and carry out the admin (the counting of which goes into match-time). The President now says: "... our loyal volunteers who make the draw happen have been caught in the middle ...". - The 'our' word is a bit clumsy to say the least. It comes across as BRFC volunteers when they were arranged by the SC. - The hospitality workers aren't volunteers; the pasty hut workers aren't volunteers; the stewards aren't volunteers; the turnstile operators aren't volunteers - will the SC programme and 50/50 sellers, and admin workers, still want to be volunteers if it moves in-house? All a bit of a land-grab. To me no side has come out of this winners, no one has come out smelling of roses.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 22, 2021 9:33:05 GMT
With reference to volunteers:
"We are now working with them directly"
That's the big clue....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 9:44:22 GMT
With reference to volunteers: "We are now working with them directly" That's the big clue.... I thought most of us were aware of that but most of those I was with yesterday said they wouldn't buy a ticket from now on as it is now under the control of Tom Gorringe. So Jim and his SC does have some hardcore supporters although they will remain as a tiny minority imo.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 22, 2021 9:50:43 GMT
With reference to volunteers: "We are now working with them directly" That's the big clue.... I thought most of us were aware of that but most of those I was with yesterday said they wouldn't buy a ticket from now on as it is now under the control of Tom Gorringe. So Jim and his SC does have some hardcore supporters although they will remain as a tiny minority imo. That's up to each individual. And slightly different from the point I was making. If some want to be publicly critical about perceived treatment of volunteer staff (taking the soul of the club, folk been working tirelessly for years treat like X, etc) I hope they will be equally publicly condoning with the news from the club that they are working directly with them with a new opportunity....?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 10:01:17 GMT
With reference to volunteers: "We are now working with them directly" That's the big clue.... I thought most of us were aware of that but most of those I was with yesterday said they wouldn't buy a ticket from now on as it is now under the control of Tom Gorringe. So Jim and his SC does have some hardcore supporters although they will remain as a tiny minority imo. How anyone can have faith and trust in an organisation that didn't have financial safeguards and governance in place, which would have alerted them at an early stage to the embezzlement of funds, is beyond me. Shambolic amateurs.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 22, 2021 12:20:47 GMT
The team is in chaos The management is in chaos The board of directors is in chaos The finances are disastrous And any new stadium aspirations have perished in the freezer So Wael decides to make pursuing a personal grievance with the Supporters Club his main priority. Can’t anyone else see that the more unconditional encouragement Wael is given the worse his judgement gets ? Totally agree. As I’ve said before, anything to cover up his own shortcomings
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 22, 2021 12:26:54 GMT
If we were talking about a home and family situation or a business situation wouldn’t it be the case that if things kept going wrong the members of the family or the stakeholders of the business would be advocating some kind of change ? Or would they continue to suffer in silence and HOPE that one day the roulette wheel would throw up the right number and everything would turn out all right ? Using your analogy then Swiss its time for those people who consider themselves invested in the club and see the problems to put up the readies and take action. Its time for people to put their money where their mouth is and instead of sniping from the sidelines to put together a syndicate with the wherewithal to make an offer to Wael, to restructure the club and build the stadium they all harp on about. He is not going anywhere at present as no offer is on the table as far as we know. There seem to be enough people / stakeholders unhappy at the present regime and criticising him, his failings, his mistakes, his judgement and his lack of investment in infrastructure so obviously they have the wherewithal to do it better and differently. If as you say that when people see a problem they shouldn't suffer in silence, surely they should be doing something about it then. This is their moment. Cometh the man, cometh the hour. So lets see all of those complaining such as the PC, BRSC, knowall and his connections, and others come together and do something constructive for a change. Make him an offer and build us a stadium. They say he isn't doing it, then they can obviously do better, lets see them do it. This is not a swipe at you. I know you have made constructive suggestions based on your experience. However I am tired of the constant 'look how bad this is, others could do better' attitude. Well now is the time for those others to step forward. Regards Cheshire You forget or don’t understand that Wael is not selling nor will he give up any of his shares. He has already shown this with the FM fiasco, which his brother wanted to sell up
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axegas
Joined: November 2015
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Post by axegas on Aug 22, 2021 12:37:22 GMT
Do the club still allow the away travel that the SC club organise to meet at the Mem? If so, that could be the next SC activity taking place on club property to get the chop / brought in house.
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Post by droitwichgas on Aug 22, 2021 13:33:33 GMT
Using your analogy then Swiss its time for those people who consider themselves invested in the club and see the problems to put up the readies and take action. Its time for people to put their money where their mouth is and instead of sniping from the sidelines to put together a syndicate with the wherewithal to make an offer to Wael, to restructure the club and build the stadium they all harp on about. He is not going anywhere at present as no offer is on the table as far as we know. There seem to be enough people / stakeholders unhappy at the present regime and criticising him, his failings, his mistakes, his judgement and his lack of investment in infrastructure so obviously they have the wherewithal to do it better and differently. If as you say that when people see a problem they shouldn't suffer in silence, surely they should be doing something about it then. This is their moment. Cometh the man, cometh the hour. So lets see all of those complaining such as the PC, BRSC, knowall and his connections, and others come together and do something constructive for a change. Make him an offer and build us a stadium. They say he isn't doing it, then they can obviously do better, lets see them do it. This is not a swipe at you. I know you have made constructive suggestions based on your experience. However I am tired of the constant 'look how bad this is, others could do better' attitude. Well now is the time for those others to step forward. Regards Cheshire You forget or don’t understand that Wael is not selling nor will he give up any of his shares. He has already shown this with the FM fiasco, which his brother wanted to sell upWhen was that officially confirmed, I can't see there's ever been even a hint the ALQ's were looking to sell up? As far as the FM fiasco what was that, yet another rumour becoming a fact given how slow progress seems to be being made on that rumoured development?
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Post by droitwichgas on Aug 22, 2021 13:43:13 GMT
I thought most of us were aware of that but most of those I was with yesterday said they wouldn't buy a ticket from now on as it is now under the control of Tom Gorringe. So Jim and his SC does have some hardcore supporters although they will remain as a tiny minority imo. How anyone can have faith and trust in an organisation that didn't have financial safeguards and governance in place, which would have alerted them at an early stage to the embezzlement of funds, is beyond me. Shambolic amateurs. Not really sure that warrants disbanding the SC as their own Treasure(?) suddenly turned rouge? Not really sure why the club are having a land grab of the 50/50 draw before they've come to an agreement with the SC, they can hardly be desperate for the £500/£1000 that brings in every home match. If the club is going to take over organising the volunteers are they going to now employ them/pay them for their services, like they do with the stewards and bar staff etc or just take advantage of their good will? If so, what's really in it for the volunteers, what's the betting whoever manages them in future will be a paid club employee?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 13:45:31 GMT
You forget or don’t understand that Wael is not selling nor will he give up any of his shares. He has already shown this with the FM fiasco, which his brother wanted to sell upWhen was that officially confirmed, I can't see there's ever been even a hint the ALQ's were looking to sell up? As far as the FM fiasco what was that, yet another rumour becoming a fact given how slow progress seems to be being made on that rumoured development? Perhaps Fanatical/Knowall would finally like to put this to bed now that Hani has got his wish of no longer being involved seeing as it appears the whole episode of division between the SC, PC and Wael commenced during this period?
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 22, 2021 13:54:19 GMT
When was that officially confirmed, I can't see there's ever been even a hint the ALQ's were looking to sell up? As far as the FM fiasco what was that, yet another rumour becoming a fact given how slow progress seems to be being made on that rumoured development? Perhaps Fanatical/Knowall would finally like to put this to bed now that Hani has got his wish of no longer being involved seeing as it appears the whole episode of division between the SC, PC and Wael commenced during this period? Tee hee! As if..
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 22, 2021 13:56:01 GMT
How anyone can have faith and trust in an organisation that didn't have financial safeguards and governance in place, which would have alerted them at an early stage to the embezzlement of funds, is beyond me. Shambolic amateurs. Not really sure that warrants disbanding the SC as their own Treasure(?) suddenly turned rouge? Not really sure why the club are having a land grab of the 50/50 draw before they've come to an agreement with the SC, they can hardly be desperate for the £500/£1000 that brings in every home match. If the club is going to take over organising the volunteers are they going to now employ them/pay them for their services, like they do with the stewards and bar staff etc or just take advantage of their good will? If so, what's really in it for the volunteers, what's the betting whoever manages them in future will be a paid club employee? The point, I suggest, is to emphasise how welcome the SC leadership are
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 22, 2021 14:11:54 GMT
Using your analogy then Swiss its time for those people who consider themselves invested in the club and see the problems to put up the readies and take action. You forget or don’t understand that Wael is not selling nor will he give up any of his shares. He has already shown this with the FM fiasco, which his brother wanted to sell up KP I fully appreciate the current situation. Has Wael told you personally he won't sell? I've known companies in the past who said in no way they would sell and subsequently sold up when the right offer came along. So for those currently engaged in attacking the club, its employees and owner (and on occasions the latter quite vitriolically), for whatever purpose, l say get your act together, put your hands in your pocket and come up with the readies. Stop stirring the pot, grow up and do your bit to put the Gas back where you feel it belongs. I am happy to act as an intermediary, I'll even cut my day rate to just cover costs, so that they can get the maximum amount available. Happy to sign a confi and try to bring peace provided they act in good faith. I have done it before and am known to act without favour. So come on let's see the readies.
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Post by swissgas on Aug 22, 2021 15:22:47 GMT
Why did you keep talking about an exit route, what signs are they Wael ever intends exiting the club, if he was thinking along those lines why would he be spending £m's at The Quarters as there's zero chance he'll get most of that back even if he sells the club? I sense you're as deluded as the SC/PC in thinking that one day Wael will be gone and everything will be rosy for them again. In my view relationships need to be built on the basis Wael's not going anywhere, not that he'll be gone in the next 5 year or so. I think anyone going into a business venture will plan for how they are going to exit that venture and will modify the plan as they go along. The training ground is a can of worms as far as I’m concerned and why anyone in Wael’s situation, as it was in March 2020, would decide to spend millions and commit to huge ongoing maintenance costs when perfectly adequate facilities were available for £80 000 pa is completely beyond me. It’s become something of a catchphrase to say the SC and PC yearn for the “good old days” and look forward to them coming back but despite all their deficiencies I don’t think they are that stupid. They probably know they don’t have the aptitude or energy to run a modern day organization but when the person who most fans think does, TG, asks them “can I have one of your old 50/50 tickets so I can get our printers to copy it” you can see why they have concerns about the future of the football club. I respect your view about Wael’s long term commitment to the club which most fans share.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,334
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 22, 2021 15:23:50 GMT
You forget or don’t understand that Wael is not selling nor will he give up any of his shares. He has already shown this with the FM fiasco, which his brother wanted to sell up KP I fully appreciate the current situation. Has Wael told you personally he won't sell? I've known companies in the past who said in no way they would sell and subsequently sold up when the right offer came along. So for those currently engaged in attacking the club, its employees and owner (and on occasions the latter quite vitriolically), for whatever purpose, l say get your act together, put your hands in your pocket and come up with the readies. Stop stirring the pot, grow up and do your bit to put the Gas back where you feel it belongs. I am happy to act as an intermediary, I'll even cut my day rate to just cover costs, so that they can get the maximum amount available. Happy to sign a confi and try to bring peace provided they act in good faith. I have done it before and am known to act without favour. So come on let's see the readies. Patronising or what. I am not wealthy and I think it’s pretty well known Wael refused to give up his shares, or part, during the FM discussions. Shocked by the nature of your post.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 22, 2021 15:26:06 GMT
You forget or don’t understand that Wael is not selling nor will he give up any of his shares. He has already shown this with the FM fiasco, which his brother wanted to sell upWhen was that officially confirmed, I can't see there's ever been even a hint the ALQ's were looking to sell up? As far as the FM fiasco what was that, yet another rumour becoming a fact given how slow progress seems to be being made on that rumoured development? It’s all on here but, unlike others, I can’t be ar5ed to go through posts. It’s on the SC thread too as well as others.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 15:34:00 GMT
When was that officially confirmed, I can't see there's ever been even a hint the ALQ's were looking to sell up? As far as the FM fiasco what was that, yet another rumour becoming a fact given how slow progress seems to be being made on that rumoured development? It’s all on here but, unlike others, I can’t be ar5ed to go through posts. It’s on the SC thread too as well as others. KP I think Droitwich is asking for official confirmation which it never was but I agree with your summary of where we were when Hani was trying to offload the club even sacking Hamer along the way for not divulging that there was another interested party. We also know that Wael did not want to give up his shareholding as the FM investors wanted him too but it's all history now as Wael won the day by buying the rest of his family out. This is where the bitterness from the SC and PC stems from IMO and I'm not holding my breath for the PC members on here to confirm this seeing as their current and past chairman was heavily involved at the time.
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 22, 2021 15:34:08 GMT
This is not a swipe at you. I know you have made constructive suggestions based on your experience. However I am tired of the constant 'look how bad this is, others could do better' attitude. Well now is the time for those others to step forward. Regards Cheshire The most important issue is Rovers future and most fans seem content to leave it completely up to Wael which, IMO, isn’t helping him because if Gasheads remain passive he is very likely to carry on with the attitude of “something is bound to turn up”. As things come to a head we should try to help Wael appreciate that he needs to show good judgement in determining Rovers future. He must be working and thinking now about what will happen when he is no longer able to finance the club because no one, IMO, is going to “ make him an offer and build us a stadium” . The exit route is going to be very costly and bring a lot of heartache but he needs to be planning for that now. As a former banker you know better than anyone how messy these things can become if no forethought is given to the process which will get everyone out with as little collateral damage as possible. Wael must feel as though he is carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders and be desperate not to let Gasheads down so anything we can do to persuade him to stop making rash decisions and instead take a calm measured approach will be of help to him and to Rovers.
Swiss - some observations - We all have concerns about many aspects of the club - There has been bad behaviour on both sides. I think though that Wael is following the maxim 'Revenge is a Dish Best Served Cold'. This is impacting on the BRSC due to the actions of the men at the top. BRSC members have had no chance to influence or change the attitude of those people as the constitution appears to be being ignored. - If no one is going to step forward or put their hands in their pockets then they should stop acting like children and grow up. Constructive criticism like yours and a couple of others would be helpful to any owner but the smokescreen of bitterness and attacks hides anything constructive that comes from fans. - We don't know what short, medium or long term plans Wael has. He may have a long term out we don't know. Yes, a good business should have an idea of its end game and a strategy on how to get there. I have met many who haven't and needed to be persuaded to put something in place. - I would be interested in how you think we could achieve the last point of reaching out to and discussing/persuading Wael with constructive thoughts. Regards
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