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Post by fatherjackhackett on Aug 20, 2021 19:55:03 GMT
I would just like to point out that Rovers never owned Eastville, but it was Supporters Club money that funded the North Stand and floodlights. Who owned it when it was sold to the greyhound company then? it was owned by the greyhound company when the North Stand was built. Different times…
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2021 20:01:52 GMT
Who owned it when it was sold to the greyhound company then? it was owned by the greyhound company when the North Stand was built. Different times… Ah, got yah.
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 20, 2021 20:20:36 GMT
Who owned it when it was sold to the greyhound company then? it was owned by the greyhound company when the North Stand was built. Different times… The totalisator system was introduced in 1932 securing the future of the stadium, this was in contrast to the football club who were in financial difficulties. During 1939 Bristol Rovers F.C negotiated a sale price to the Bristol Greyhound Company, albeit by the chairman, who carried out the deal without the knowledge of his fellow directors. Eastville changed hands for £12,000 and the first General Manager was Lieutenant-Colonel Forsdike who was to become secretary of the National Greyhound Racing Club.[4] [from wikipedia]
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Post by droitwichgas on Aug 20, 2021 21:32:57 GMT
Just looking to the future, what now happens to the £120K(?) the SC received from the sale of the club shop if it now says FU in response to Wael's letter, do they have they any obligation to pass the proceeds on to the club?
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Post by MisterSitter on Aug 20, 2021 21:56:32 GMT
Just looking to the future, what now happens to the £120K(?) the SC received from the sale of the club shop if it now says FU in response to Wael's letter, do they have they any obligation to pass the proceeds on to the club? That depends on whether the SC decides if it is a club for supporters or support for the club. If it's the former then the money should be spent on subsidised away travel. If it's the latter then just give it to the club.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 21, 2021 9:20:52 GMT
Decent letter, that.
Methinks there's a lot more information being held back on, but it's a dignified, classy letter that puts the ball firmly in SC court as to how they want to react.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 10:02:10 GMT
Just looking to the future, what now happens to the £120K(?) the SC received from the sale of the club shop if it now says FU in response to Wael's letter, do they have they any obligation to pass the proceeds on to the club? Sounds as if they've run it down to £50k. Which is another scandal. In which parallel universe is it acceptable for the SC to sit there and lose money when they have direct access to the entire supporter base. Complete madness. I know it's not the main reason, but it will be part of the thinking behind the FC looking at them and seeing no value in working with them.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 21, 2021 12:18:46 GMT
Decent letter, that. Methinks there's a lot more information being held back on, but it's a dignified, classy letter that puts the ball firmly in SC court as to how they want to react. Yup. Very clear communication and very well written. Probably the best that's come from Wael.
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Post by swissgas on Aug 21, 2021 17:13:17 GMT
The team is in chaos The management is in chaos The board of directors is in chaos The finances are disastrous And any new stadium aspirations have perished in the freezer
So Wael decides to make pursuing a personal grievance with the Supporters Club his main priority.
Can’t anyone else see that the more unconditional encouragement Wael is given the worse his judgement gets ?
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 21, 2021 17:49:35 GMT
The team is in chaos The management is in chaos The board of directors is in chaos The finances are disastrous And any new stadium aspirations have perished in the freezer So Wael decides to make pursuing a personal grievance with the Supporters Club his main priority. Can’t anyone else see that the more unconditional encouragement Wael is given the worse his judgement gets ? that all depends on what sort of grievance you have with the man, or your feelings toward him, So along with the seemingly incompetence at the SC as well lets shut the whole lot down and put Swiss in charge
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Aug 21, 2021 18:51:11 GMT
The team is in chaos The management is in chaos The board of directors is in chaos The finances are disastrous And any new stadium aspirations have perished in the freezer So Wael decides to make pursuing a personal grievance with the Supporters Club his main priority. Can’t anyone else see that the more unconditional encouragement Wael is given the worse his judgement gets ? The club's a mess. I hope that Wael can divorce himself from the cult of Barton. No sympathy with SC - symptomatic of the root cause of our malaise. Detachment from reality.
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 21, 2021 19:02:35 GMT
Can’t anyone else see that the more unconditional encouragement Wael is given the worse his judgement gets ? eh?
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Post by swissgas on Aug 21, 2021 19:56:12 GMT
Can’t anyone else see that the more unconditional encouragement Wael is given the worse his judgement gets ? eh? We encourage and support Wael in whatever he does without conditions. So even though we may not think what he does feels or sounds right, in the main, we give him the benefit of the doubt. And even after five years of consistent failure most fans will still say it’s his money and it’s his club so we have to show our gratitude by encouraging him (or at least not strongly criticizing him) in the HOPE that one day he gets it right. My proposition is that as long as he knows he has fans unconditional support he will not change his decision making process, which is basically acting on impulse, so we will continue to stagger from crisis to crisis. If we were talking about a home and family situation or a business situation wouldn’t it be the case that if things kept going wrong the members of the family or the stakeholders of the business would be advocating some kind of change ? Or would they continue to suffer in silence and HOPE that one day the roulette wheel would throw up the right number and everything would turn out all right ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 20:09:06 GMT
Can’t anyone else see that the more unconditional encouragement Wael is given the worse his judgement gets ? eh?
Sounds like the SC being unfit for purpose is Waels fault.
Glad thats clear at last.
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 21, 2021 20:18:42 GMT
We encourage and support Wael in whatever he does without conditions. So even though we may not think what he does feels or sounds right, in the main, we give him the benefit of the doubt. And even after five years of consistent failure most fans will still say it’s his money and it’s his club so we have to show our gratitude by encouraging him (or at least not strongly criticizing him) in the HOPE that one day he gets it right. My proposition is that as long as he knows he has fans unconditional support he will not change his decision making process, which is basically acting on impulse, so we will continue to stagger from crisis to crisis. If we were talking about a home and family situation or a business situation wouldn’t it be the case that if things kept going wrong the members of the family or the stakeholders of the business would be advocating some kind of change ? Or would they continue to suffer in silence and HOPE that one day the roulette wheel would throw up the right number and everything would turn out all right ? ta for explaining swiss agree that the decision-making hasn't been great (though I supported the BG appointment in particular, and remain excited about the training ground, and I think Tom Gorringe-rhymes-with-orange is doing good things, and I feel that Wael probably has little option with the SC, and maybe PC), but not sure that Gashead support is a major contributor to it myself we all know that running football clubs isn't easy. I can only hope that Wael, who remains a nice and committed chap, is learning and improving (as we all tend to do in our trade) which I realise is probably a bit too wet to appeal to you!
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Post by swissgas on Aug 21, 2021 21:10:51 GMT
We encourage and support Wael in whatever he does without conditions. So even though we may not think what he does feels or sounds right, in the main, we give him the benefit of the doubt. And even after five years of consistent failure most fans will still say it’s his money and it’s his club so we have to show our gratitude by encouraging him (or at least not strongly criticizing him) in the HOPE that one day he gets it right. My proposition is that as long as he knows he has fans unconditional support he will not change his decision making process, which is basically acting on impulse, so we will continue to stagger from crisis to crisis. If we were talking about a home and family situation or a business situation wouldn’t it be the case that if things kept going wrong the members of the family or the stakeholders of the business would be advocating some kind of change ? Or would they continue to suffer in silence and HOPE that one day the roulette wheel would throw up the right number and everything would turn out all right ? ta for explaining swiss agree that the decision-making hasn't been great (though I supported the BG appointment in particular, and remain excited about the training ground, and I think Tom Gorringe-rhymes-with-orange is doing good things, and I feel that Wael probably has little option with the SC, and maybe PC), but not sure that Gashead support is a major contributor to it myself we all know that running football clubs isn't easy. I can only hope that Wael, who remains a nice and committed chap, is learning and improving (as we all tend to do in our trade) which I realise is probably a bit too wet to appeal to you! Thanks, I like the reference to “wet” which is a throwback to Mrs Thatcher’s time but don’t worry you appear to be at a perfect humidity level to me.
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Post by swissgas on Aug 21, 2021 21:21:08 GMT
Sounds like the SC being unfit for purpose is Waels fault.
Glad thats clear at last.
Do you think the condition of the SC should be a higher priority for Wael’s attention than the team, the management, the board of directors, the finances and the stadium ? Or do you say to yourself “ if that’s what Wael wants to do it’s good enough for me” and not worry about considering the effect this choice of priority might have on Rovers ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 21:34:01 GMT
Sounds like the SC being unfit for purpose is Waels fault.
Glad thats clear at last.
Do you think the condition of the SC should be a higher priority for Wael’s attention than the team, the management, the board of directors, the finances and the stadium ?Or do you say to yourself “ if that’s what Wael wants to do it’s good enough for me” and not worry about considering the effect this choice of priority might have on Rovers ? No. And its obviously not a higher priority. And I doubt anyone other than you thinks otherwise. The only reason for WAQ (rightly) saying anything is that the SC have gone public. Thats obvious too, but as usual you will find a way to attack the owners regardless. Its very predictable, we all knew you would.
And as far as what I say to myself - I say "what a load of bol*ox that is from the SC. Thank God Wael has put them in their place at last"
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 21, 2021 22:15:05 GMT
If we were talking about a home and family situation or a business situation wouldn’t it be the case that if things kept going wrong the members of the family or the stakeholders of the business would be advocating some kind of change ? Or would they continue to suffer in silence and HOPE that one day the roulette wheel would throw up the right number and everything would turn out all right ? Using your analogy then Swiss its time for those people who consider themselves invested in the club and see the problems to put up the readies and take action. Its time for people to put their money where their mouth is and instead of sniping from the sidelines to put together a syndicate with the wherewithal to make an offer to Wael, to restructure the club and build the stadium they all harp on about. He is not going anywhere at present as no offer is on the table as far as we know. There seem to be enough people / stakeholders unhappy at the present regime and criticising him, his failings, his mistakes, his judgement and his lack of investment in infrastructure so obviously they have the wherewithal to do it better and differently. If as you say that when people see a problem they shouldn't suffer in silence, surely they should be doing something about it then. This is their moment. Cometh the man, cometh the hour. So lets see all of those complaining such as the PC, BRSC, knowall and his connections, and others come together and do something constructive for a change. Make him an offer and build us a stadium. They say he isn't doing it, then they can obviously do better, lets see them do it. This is not a swipe at you. I know you have made constructive suggestions based on your experience. However I am tired of the constant 'look how bad this is, others could do better' attitude. Well now is the time for those others to step forward. Regards Cheshire
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Post by swissgas on Aug 22, 2021 0:00:01 GMT
If we were talking about a home and family situation or a business situation wouldn’t it be the case that if things kept going wrong the members of the family or the stakeholders of the business would be advocating some kind of change ? Or would they continue to suffer in silence and HOPE that one day the roulette wheel would throw up the right number and everything would turn out all right ? Using your analogy then Swiss its time for those people who consider themselves invested in the club and see the problems to put up the readies and take action. Its time for people to put their money where their mouth is and instead of sniping from the sidelines to put together a syndicate with the wherewithal to make an offer to Wael, to restructure the club and build the stadium they all harp on about. He is not going anywhere at present as no offer is on the table as far as we know. There seem to be enough people / stakeholders unhappy at the present regime and criticising him, his failings, his mistakes, his judgement and his lack of investment in infrastructure so obviously they have the wherewithal to do it better and differently. If as you say that when people see a problem they shouldn't suffer in silence, surely they should be doing something about it then. This is their moment. Cometh the man, cometh the hour. So lets see all of those complaining such as the PC, BRSC, knowall and his connections, and others come together and do something constructive for a change. Make him an offer and build us a stadium. They say he isn't doing it, then they can obviously do better, lets see them do it. This is not a swipe at you. I know you have made constructive suggestions based on your experience. However I am tired of the constant 'look how bad this is, others could do better' attitude. Well now is the time for those others to step forward. Regards Cheshire I think the leaders and many members of the SC and PC are very concerned about Rovers future and even though bitterness and resentment may be present IMO those concerns are genuine.Everyone knows that the two groups became cliques with absolute loyalty to the Dunfords and Nick Higgs and with little interest in modernizing or becoming more inclusive. I know better than most because their apparatchiks (the bright side of life and nurse ratchet spring to mind) were relentless in knocking back me and others who criticized the running of the club. Kevin was even banned from the ground and I don’t think either group spoke up for him. So in some ways the SC and PC are reaping what they have sown but if, as is alleged, the accusations against Wael were made out of spite then I am afraid the response of demanding an apology, demanding Jim resign, demanding a payment of 50 000 and taking away the 50/50 draw is also spiteful. As the Doc says Wael is an educated man, the leaders of the PC are Gasheads of long standing, it should be possible to resolve these differences through compromise because, as I think you will agree, in any dispute neither side is completely blameless. So this letter writing from both parties, the playing to the gallery and the stirring up of division is completely unnecessary and only deflects attention away from the much more important issues which have to be dealt with. The most important issue is Rovers future and most fans seem content to leave it completely up to Wael which, IMO, isn’t helping him because if Gasheads remain passive he is very likely to carry on with the attitude of “something is bound to turn up”. As things come to a head we should try to help Wael appreciate that he needs to show good judgement in determining Rovers future. He must be working and thinking now about what will happen when he is no longer able to finance the club because no one, IMO, is going to “ make him an offer and build us a stadium” . The exit route is going to be very costly and bring a lot of heartache but he needs to be planning for that now. As a former banker you know better than anyone how messy these things can become if no forethought is given to the process which will get everyone out with as little collateral damage as possible. Wael must feel as though he is carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders and be desperate not to let Gasheads down so anything we can do to persuade him to stop making rash decisions and instead take a calm measured approach will be of help to him and to Rovers.
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