lostinspace
Vic Lambden
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Post by lostinspace on Jun 12, 2021 16:34:33 GMT
Heading for a pathetic defeat, unfortunately Bracey not had the best of either games, batting wise, dropped what you would have thought to be relatively catch behind, but confused as to why no Leach again, selection seen wanting?
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crater
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Post by crater on Jun 12, 2021 19:24:56 GMT
Our batting has been atrocious for too long now...
A combination of poor technique and getting themselves out
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 12, 2021 21:02:12 GMT
Too many changes all at one time. A touch of arrogance on England’s part I think, “it’s only NZ, we’ll beat them easily.” Feel sorry for the newbies.
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lostinspace
Vic Lambden
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Post by lostinspace on Jun 13, 2021 10:15:03 GMT
I thought NZ made 6 changes?
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 13, 2021 17:32:20 GMT
Perhaps NZ did change as many but being concerned about England I stand by the too many changes. It will take some time before cricket settles down after the almost cricket-less summer last year. I think we underrated NZ as we always do. Their squad and pool of players is smaller but those in the team are very good, they are not in the top 2 in the world for nothing.
Some of the techniques of the England players were poor and they will need to improve before the Indian series and if they go to Australia with this team it could be quite embarrassing.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Jun 13, 2021 18:45:08 GMT
Perhaps NZ did change as many but being concerned about England I stand by the too many changes. It will take some time before cricket settles down after the almost cricket-less summer last year. I think we underrated NZ as we always do. Their squad and pool of players is smaller but those in the team are very good, they are not in the top 2 in the world for nothing. Some of the techniques of the England players were poor and they will need to improve before the Indian series and if they go to Australia with this team it could be quite embarrassing. Too many changes is absolutely an issue, but I think the number of changes reflects the state of the game in England and Wales at the moment. Let's be clear. This kind of defeat has be on the cards for years. We won very tight series against the Windies and Pakistan last year and a freak Stokes innings burgled England a win at Headingly and prevented a series defeat. We were in real danger of losing to Ireland in the series before that. My view is that some very favourable pitches have kept us competitive at home over the last 5 years. This year, the management have decided we need to play on better pitches to ensure we're geared up for the ashes this winter. I actually think that's admirable, but I wonder whether this approach will be enough to improve our away performances in the medium term. Firstly, the coach and captain will not survive if we lose to India and then Australia. Nor will Giles. I think India are favourites if we play them on these type of pitches. You have to balance the long term with the necessity to win in the present. Secondly, better pitches in test cricket won't make up for systemic failings in the county game. This is what happens when, for 5 years, you play almost no first class cricket in June, July and August. Quick bowlers and spinners are almost redundant. Batting is too tough and it encourages the kind of mindsets and techniques that prevail in our test team. I reckon the specialist top order batsmen who average North of 40 in first class cricket who are not in the test team at the moment must be limited to Ballance and Hildrith. That is appalling. Finally, the fact that the T20 side will be at full strength again and the test side has been weakened for every test this year says it all. With no Stokes, one of Woakes or Curran should have played and then sat out the T20s. Once Foakes got injured Bairstow or Butler should have been drafted in. Bracey could be a decent top order batter, but he's only got a few years experience as a keeper. Picking him in that role was asking for trouble and will have knocked him back. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 13, 2021 21:34:17 GMT
Well jack, I can’t disagree with much of what you’ve said though I do think the number of changes did have an impact. I think that making that number of changes is ok if the players coming in are as good or nearly as good as the players omitted. But in England that is looking that it isn’t the case. What’s becoming clear is that England when they made the “club England” last summer with their bubble which was to last more or less all season was all well and good if the quality was there. Unfortunately it wasn’t and making a player a member of the squad isn’t any guarantee of quality.
The ECB is just plain awful. They are way off the mark in how they schedule cricket in this country and the shambles of the 100 Competition has just been cringeworthy. Being a regular on the red ball circuit I talk to so many people who know their cricket and no one believes the ECB know what they’re doing. The ECB have been unlucky with the coincidence of Covid and the postponement of the 100 but they have completely taken their eyes off the ball in regards to the balance of how and when cricket has been played. Do they actually care about Test cricket and by association the County Championship? I’m pretty sure they don’t care and that a further 10 years of this mis-management will seriously endanger the future.
Your point about existing CC players with a +40 average in red ball cricket may well be true and the worry is who’s coming through. Off the top of my head Lawrence of Essex should be, Pope should be. Banton of Somerset should be coming through but he’s struggled if the ball is straight and he’s liable to be bowled or LBW. Though to be fair he looks to have strengthened his defence this season. But he will concentrate on white ball cricket I’d imagine. Watch out for George Bartlett at Somerset, he goes under the radar at Somerset because of all the big hitters but in red ball he’s the pick of them imo.
The overseeing of the England team seems to be muddled. If they need to rest players like Buttler, Bairstow, and others that is fair enough. Archer and Stokes seem to be very open to injury and the World T20 seems to be the main thing now but the overall management is again poor. Silverwood and Root are running out of people to blame.
I’ve watched a little bit of the live coverage this time and the highlights but just felt I had better things to do rather than sit there and get annoyed so I might be appearing unfair but technically we are very poor. And part of the trouble is when players leave their counties to join “club England” they don’t seem to improve but get worse and that’s worrying.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 14, 2021 23:25:58 GMT
Abject wasn't it. I think there's an attitude issue as well. The Ashes has become this all consuming thing and everything is about 'building for the Ashes'. Umm, hang on a moment. Aren't we playing the 2 best Test teams in the World this summer (something the England head coach belated recognised as a handy excuse for why we got hammered)? Shouldn't that take some kind of priority.
India must be licking their lips at the prospects of a rare series win in England. I don't really have much to say. We have looked dreadful in all departments apart from the odd flash. I agree with Jack that we've been skating on thin ice for a while.
Even within the constaints they were working with it was a bizarre couple of team selections.
Final point - if we really are 'building for the Ashes' how exactly is that going right now?
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