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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 10:32:37 GMT
B***** also has the potential to lose his temper again and hurt someone, again. We aren't dealing with a disadvantaged individual who has nothing, has never had a break in life and has nothing to lose, he's just someone whose default reaction when things go wrong in life is to get angry. BTW, that's the exact opposite of an intelligent response to the situation. No one mentioned disadvantaged....one could argue white privilege, but that's not relevant either. Again, your post mainly focusses on the past (apart from the potential to do harm, which is a very valid point) which isn't under contest, the future is. We do (as a club, fanbase and business in the community) have potential and great capability to help him. And others. For his future well-being. We can do good here, there's definitely an opportunity for JAB to reform... But are we thinking of B*****’s victims when saying that he should get a clean slate? If everyone gets a clean slate for their misdemeanours then there are no negative consequences for anything. It’s okay to have 35th chances because it’s all about the here and now. I don’t think anyone objects to B***** earning his way back into society through jobs where no-one will know who he is. The chairman of a football club actively revelling in B*****’s notoriety...well...there really are no words basically. We’ve seen how this clean slate and second chance narrative seems to be just mental gymnastics to overcome cognitive dissonance, that’s literally all it is as the venomous and hateful threads on Gaschat by those who now love B***** attests. Our own irenestoyboy has not returned to explain when called out on the comments he made on the B***** thread on Gaschat. All this is is a temporary armistice by a big number of Rovers fans masquerading as a second chance. The Rovers faithful will be back to hating B***** for who he is soon enough. Imagine if he signed for City tomorrow? Do you really think Gaschat would be peddling a narrative of “Joey deserves a chance to improve himself at a bigger club”? Bollocks. He’s be back to being a thug, City would be shamed for employing someone like him and the entire forum would be hoping and praying that he gets sent down in June.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 10:35:58 GMT
B***** also has the potential to lose his temper again and hurt someone, again. We aren't dealing with a disadvantaged individual who has nothing, has never had a break in life and has nothing to lose, he's just someone whose default reaction when things go wrong in life is to get angry. BTW, that's the exact opposite of an intelligent response to the situation. No one mentioned disadvantaged....one could argue white privilege, but that's not relevant either. Again, your post mainly focusses on the past (apart from the potential to do harm, which is a very valid point) which isn't under contest, the future is. We do (as a club, fanbase and business in the community) have potential and great capability to help him. And others. For his future well-being. We can do good here, there's definitely an opportunity for JAB to reform... My post was a direct reply to your proposal that we should focus on B*****'s potential. All I did was remind you that he has the potential to resort to violence at any moment and gave context by reminding you that he's had a career as an elite level footballer, so doesn't exactly fit into the category of someone who has had the hardest of lives and is at the bottom of society's pecking order with literally nothing and with nothing to lose. What do you think we should do, offer him a full time job to keep him off the streets and away from people who are a bad influence on him, might that work?
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Post by PeterHooper57 on Apr 6, 2021 10:48:15 GMT
I think Joey is simply being honest, telling it has he sees it, knows what he is talking about; played at the highest level, for a very long time, really please to back the fella.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 6, 2021 11:58:56 GMT
No one mentioned disadvantaged....one could argue white privilege, but that's not relevant either. Again, your post mainly focusses on the past (apart from the potential to do harm, which is a very valid point) which isn't under contest, the future is. We do (as a club, fanbase and business in the community) have potential and great capability to help him. And others. For his future well-being. We can do good here, there's definitely an opportunity for JAB to reform... But are we thinking of B*****’s victims when saying that he should get a clean slate? If everyone gets a clean slate for their misdemeanours then there are no negative consequences for anything. It’s okay to have 35th chances because it’s all about the here and now. I don’t think anyone objects to B***** earning his way back into society through jobs where no-one will know who he is. The chairman of a football club actively revelling in B*****’s notoriety...well...there really are no words basically. We’ve seen how this clean slate and second chance narrative seems to be just mental gymnastics to overcome cognitive dissonance, that’s literally all it is as the venomous and hateful threads on Gaschat by those who now love B***** attests. Our own irenestoyboy has not returned to explain when called out on the comments he made on the B***** thread on Gaschat. All this is is a temporary armistice by a big number of Rovers fans masquerading as a second chance. The Rovers faithful will be back to hating B***** for who he is soon enough. Imagine if he signed for City tomorrow? Do you really think Gaschat would be peddling a narrative of “Joey deserves a chance to improve himself at a bigger club”? Bollocks. He’s be back to being a thug, City would be shamed for employing someone like him and the entire forum would be hoping and praying that he gets sent down in June. I take your point, but praying he gets sent down in any hypothesis assumes guilt. And it's unfair to speculate awaiting trial. To surge the hypothesis further, I'm sure there are many that would link JAB to CSF and think it's a nice cosy fit....? I don't know, I'm being factitious. Victims? Good point again. We don't know the full facts, I've posted this before.... maybe there was victim surcharge or private reaching out? I don't know. It's all speculation, but this is why we have rehabilitation orders and guidelines that say some crimes are spent. Legally. Why has there been no sponsorship withdrawal? And apart from a vast minority of fans refusing to renew financial acquaintance, I can't see any major issues regarding supplier or sponsorship or corporate funding being withheld over moral outrage or protest?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 6, 2021 12:04:29 GMT
No one mentioned disadvantaged....one could argue white privilege, but that's not relevant either. Again, your post mainly focusses on the past (apart from the potential to do harm, which is a very valid point) which isn't under contest, the future is. We do (as a club, fanbase and business in the community) have potential and great capability to help him. And others. For his future well-being. We can do good here, there's definitely an opportunity for JAB to reform... My post was a direct reply to your proposal that we should focus on B*****'s potential. All I did was remind you that he has the potential to resort to violence at any moment and gave context by reminding you that he's had a career as an elite level footballer, so doesn't exactly fit into the category of someone who has had the hardest of lives and is at the bottom of society's pecking order with literally nothing and with nothing to lose. What do you think we should do, offer him a full time job to keep him off the streets and away from people who are a bad influence on him, might that work? Naughty Bambi... because reminding was not all you done, you resorted to previous references.... but yes, potential either way on reform... The hardest of lives? Ok.. What do I think we should do about offering a job to keep him off streets, away from bad influence? Well, quite honestly yes, that's a small step. A long long way to go, but if JAB can draw strength from positive influences and in a geographical area where his criminal peers can't distract him, it's potential.... wouldn't you agree? It's a start.
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Post by holmesgas1 on Apr 6, 2021 12:07:39 GMT
No one mentioned disadvantaged....one could argue white privilege, but that's not relevant either. Again, your post mainly focusses on the past (apart from the potential to do harm, which is a very valid point) which isn't under contest, the future is. We do (as a club, fanbase and business in the community) have potential and great capability to help him. And others. For his future well-being. We can do good here, there's definitely an opportunity for JAB to reform... My post was a direct reply to your proposal that we should focus on B*****'s potential. All I did was remind you that he has the potential to resort to violence at any moment and gave context by reminding you that he's had a career as an elite level footballer, so doesn't exactly fit into the category of someone who has had the hardest of lives and is at the bottom of society's pecking order with literally nothing and with nothing to lose. What do you think we should do, offer him a full time job to keep him off the streets and away from people who are a bad influence on him, might that work? Why not let him do his job, he may actually be good at it, but no let's damn him in anyway we can. As I said in another post depressing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 13:07:26 GMT
My post was a direct reply to your proposal that we should focus on B*****'s potential. All I did was remind you that he has the potential to resort to violence at any moment and gave context by reminding you that he's had a career as an elite level footballer, so doesn't exactly fit into the category of someone who has had the hardest of lives and is at the bottom of society's pecking order with literally nothing and with nothing to lose. What do you think we should do, offer him a full time job to keep him off the streets and away from people who are a bad influence on him, might that work? Why not let him do his job, he may actually be good at it, but no let's damn him in anyway we can. As I said in another post depressing. Because his appointment drags our club into disrepute and as far as I can find he doesn't show anything even approaching sincere regret for his actions. Sorry but this reads very much like 'I can't argue on facts or evidence so I would be grateful if you would just stop putting forward your point of view so that I can win the debate please'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 13:11:44 GMT
My post was a direct reply to your proposal that we should focus on B*****'s potential. All I did was remind you that he has the potential to resort to violence at any moment and gave context by reminding you that he's had a career as an elite level footballer, so doesn't exactly fit into the category of someone who has had the hardest of lives and is at the bottom of society's pecking order with literally nothing and with nothing to lose. What do you think we should do, offer him a full time job to keep him off the streets and away from people who are a bad influence on him, might that work? Naughty Bambi... because reminding was not all you done, you resorted to previous references.... but yes, potential either way on reform... The hardest of lives? Ok.. What do I think we should do about offering a job to keep him off streets, away from bad influence? Well, quite honestly yes, that's a small step. A long long way to go, but if JAB can draw strength from positive influences and in a geographical area where his criminal peers can't distract him, it's potential.... wouldn't you agree? It's a start. Has he severed links with his 'crew' from 'up north'? He's in the same arena, with the same pressure that caused him problems at other clubs. Why do you expect a different outcome? I agree though, his life would quite possibly have been even more chaotic without the career he had as a result of his elite level football ability.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 13:26:58 GMT
Why not let him do his job, he may actually be good at it, but no let's damn him in anyway we can. As I said in another post depressing. Because his appointment drags our club into disrepute and as far as I can find he doesn't show anything even approaching sincere regret for his actions. Sorry but this reads very much like 'I can't argue on facts or evidence so I would be grateful if you would just stop putting forward your point of view so that I can win the debate please'. Listen to Danny Mills on the Undr the cosh podcast. He describes how he never showed any remorse - Mills and co were like “Joey you almost beat him to death”, “yeah but he called me a twat”, “you are a twat Joey but you can’t just go around hitting people”, “yeah but he called me a twat” etc. No remorse and given that he still can’t stop being associated with violent acts so many years later suggests that he hasn’t learnt and isn’t likely to.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 6, 2021 14:21:11 GMT
Naughty Bambi... because reminding was not all you done, you resorted to previous references.... but yes, potential either way on reform... The hardest of lives? Ok.. What do I think we should do about offering a job to keep him off streets, away from bad influence? Well, quite honestly yes, that's a small step. A long long way to go, but if JAB can draw strength from positive influences and in a geographical area where his criminal peers can't distract him, it's potential.... wouldn't you agree? It's a start. Has he severed links with his 'crew' from 'up north'? He's in the same arena, with the same pressure that caused him problems at other clubs. Why do you expect a different outcome? I agree though, his life would quite possibly have been even more chaotic without the career he had as a result of his elite level football ability. With the work schedule since February 22nd, there's no way geographically anyone could commute, so just from working away from home severs some ties. And there's the fundamental difference, I don't expect anything. I'm just presenting an alternative way, options and potential for the future. If we can help him and others to better themselves, that's a good thing isn't it? That's part of what community is all about, isn't it? What a great potential for us too, the club helps a reformed character whilst turning around our on pitch form...? It's potentially mutually beneficial.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 14:26:21 GMT
Has he severed links with his 'crew' from 'up north'? He's in the same arena, with the same pressure that caused him problems at other clubs. Why do you expect a different outcome? I agree though, his life would quite possibly have been even more chaotic without the career he had as a result of his elite level football ability. With the work schedule since February 22nd, there's no way geographically anyone could commute, so just from working away from home severs some ties. And there's the fundamental difference, I don't expect anything. I'm just presenting an alternative way, options and potential for the future. If we can help him and others to better themselves, that's a good thing isn't it? That's part of what community is all about, isn't it? What a great potential for us too, the club helps a reformed character whilst turning around our on pitch form...? It's potentially mutually beneficial. Can he truly be considered reformed right now without knowing the outcome of the trial? If he’s found guilty he needs to serve his punishment and *then* the talk of reformation can begin. And, with all due respect to your argument, I think it’s fair to say that our owner did not hire him with reform in mind. Out of interest, does your opinion change on B***** if he is found guilty of assaulting another manager?
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Post by holmesgas1 on Apr 6, 2021 14:30:18 GMT
Why not let him do his job, he may actually be good at it, but no let's damn him in anyway we can. As I said in another post depressing. Because his appointment drags our club into disrepute and as far as I can find he doesn't show anything even approaching sincere regret for his actions. Sorry but this reads very much like 'I can't argue on facts or evidence so I would be grateful if you would just stop putting forward your point of view so that I can win the debate please'. You have to be joking, facts, evidence. You have pronounced guilty before the trial... What went before then he has paid his dues. Also when has he brought the club into disrepute. Only in your mind, if anything to date while at the club he's been a decent ambassador.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 6, 2021 14:35:43 GMT
With the work schedule since February 22nd, there's no way geographically anyone could commute, so just from working away from home severs some ties. And there's the fundamental difference, I don't expect anything. I'm just presenting an alternative way, options and potential for the future. If we can help him and others to better themselves, that's a good thing isn't it? That's part of what community is all about, isn't it? What a great potential for us too, the club helps a reformed character whilst turning around our on pitch form...? It's potentially mutually beneficial. Can he truly be considered reformed right now without knowing the outcome of the trial? If he’s found guilty he needs to serve his punishment and *then* the talk of reformation can begin. And, with all due respect to your argument, I think it’s fair to say that our owner did not hire him with reform in mind. Out of interest, does your opinion change on B***** if he is found guilty of assaulting another manager? I think I mean with reform, publicly expressed remorse. And I totally agree, that wasn't the hiring motivation....I never meant to imply that as a motivation for hiring, I'm simply pointing out the potential positives (for instance, were you aware a documentary film crew was following him around at Fleetwood, but is suspended pending court case?).... Opinion in what way change? I'm neutral about his appointment, still am. JAB points return is woeful...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 14:39:07 GMT
Because his appointment drags our club into disrepute and as far as I can find he doesn't show anything even approaching sincere regret for his actions. Sorry but this reads very much like 'I can't argue on facts or evidence so I would be grateful if you would just stop putting forward your point of view so that I can win the debate please'. You have to be joking, facts, evidence. You have pronounced guilty before the trial... What went before then he has paid his dues. Also when has he brought the club into disrepute. Only in your mind, if anything to date while at the club he's been a decent ambassador. Please copy the post where I've said that he's guilty of assaulting the Barnsley manager. I've speculated that the hearing may not even go ahead, how you get from there to me saying he's guilty of anything in this instance is beyond me. Sorry but we have different opinions about what constitutes a 'Good ambassador'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 14:43:02 GMT
Has he severed links with his 'crew' from 'up north'? He's in the same arena, with the same pressure that caused him problems at other clubs. Why do you expect a different outcome? I agree though, his life would quite possibly have been even more chaotic without the career he had as a result of his elite level football ability. With the work schedule since February 22nd, there's no way geographically anyone could commute, so just from working away from home severs some ties. And there's the fundamental difference, I don't expect anything. I'm just presenting an alternative way, options and potential for the future. If we can help him and others to better themselves, that's a good thing isn't it? That's part of what community is all about, isn't it? What a great potential for us too, the club helps a reformed character whilst turning around our on pitch form...? It's potentially mutually beneficial. Great, give him a low key role in the community dept or something of that type, where he can be supervised. Don't make him the public face of the club whilst he has a trial for assault scheduled. I'm lost with all of the names, but it was stated on here that some of his hangers on had followed him here, but I don't know if that's correct.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 6, 2021 14:55:39 GMT
With the work schedule since February 22nd, there's no way geographically anyone could commute, so just from working away from home severs some ties. And there's the fundamental difference, I don't expect anything. I'm just presenting an alternative way, options and potential for the future. If we can help him and others to better themselves, that's a good thing isn't it? That's part of what community is all about, isn't it? What a great potential for us too, the club helps a reformed character whilst turning around our on pitch form...? It's potentially mutually beneficial. Great, give him a low key role in the community dept or something of that type, where he can be supervised. Don't make him the public face of the club whilst he has a trial for assault scheduled. I'm lost with all of the names, but it was stated on here that some of his hangers on had followed him here, but I don't know if that's correct. JAB is entitled to be tried fairly, and assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. So on that basis he is qualified to apply and expect fair chance to be appointed in any role that's best for him, and his employers. However unpalatable that might be. He's done nothing legally wrong since February 22nd, some of his comments/team selections/game time decision making/substitutions/pre post match comments might be unpalatable too but as public a face he is for the club, it's the club I support and fanatacise (is that a word!?), not the cult within. I support Bristol Rovers, not Ollie Holloway, or DC or GC or even the hallowed GF...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 14:58:37 GMT
Because his appointment drags our club into disrepute and as far as I can find he doesn't show anything even approaching sincere regret for his actions. Sorry but this reads very much like 'I can't argue on facts or evidence so I would be grateful if you would just stop putting forward your point of view so that I can win the debate please'. You have to be joking, facts, evidence. You have pronounced guilty before the trial... What went before then he has paid his dues. Also when has he brought the club into disrepute. Only in your mind, if anything to date while at the club he's been a decent ambassador. You are wasting your time Holmesgas. Facts? Evidence? This is WeHateEverythingAboutRovers.Org
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 15:07:42 GMT
You have to be joking, facts, evidence. You have pronounced guilty before the trial... What went before then he has paid his dues. Also when has he brought the club into disrepute. Only in your mind, if anything to date while at the club he's been a decent ambassador. You are wasting your time Holmesgas. Facts? Evidence? This is WeHateEverythingAboutRovers.Org Speak for yourself Contraception, there are a lot of very loyal Gasheads on this forum.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 15:14:00 GMT
Great, give him a low key role in the community dept or something of that type, where he can be supervised. Don't make him the public face of the club whilst he has a trial for assault scheduled. I'm lost with all of the names, but it was stated on here that some of his hangers on had followed him here, but I don't know if that's correct. JAB is entitled to be tried fairly, and assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. So on that basis he is qualified to apply and expect fair chance to be appointed in any role that's best for him, and his employers. However unpalatable that might be. He's done nothing legally wrong since February 22nd, some of his comments/team selections/game time decision making/substitutions/pre post match comments might be unpalatable too but as public a face he is for the club, it's the club I support and fanatacise (is that a word!?), not the cult within. I support Bristol Rovers, not Ollie Holloway, or DC or GC or even the hallowed GF... But isn’t that the issue? Is putting him in the same role right when he could easily blow his top and get involved in another ABH episode with the guy managing Northampton? Or Portsmouth? Or Crewe? It smacks of the charge against him not really being taken very seriously by Rovers seeing as they are so willing to put him back amongst the football manager community
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 6, 2021 15:31:14 GMT
JAB is entitled to be tried fairly, and assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. So on that basis he is qualified to apply and expect fair chance to be appointed in any role that's best for him, and his employers. However unpalatable that might be. He's done nothing legally wrong since February 22nd, some of his comments/team selections/game time decision making/substitutions/pre post match comments might be unpalatable too but as public a face he is for the club, it's the club I support and fanatacise (is that a word!?), not the cult within. I support Bristol Rovers, not Ollie Holloway, or DC or GC or even the hallowed GF... But isn’t that the issue? Is putting him in the same role right when he could easily blow his top and get involved in another ABH episode with the guy managing Northampton? Or Portsmouth? Or Crewe? It smacks of the charge against him not really being taken very seriously by Rovers seeing as they are so willing to put him back amongst the football manager community Your post is making assumptions. It's not healthy. There are too many unknowns here. For instance, here's one no one has thought of....Is putting him in the same role right when he could easily NOT blow his top and get involved in another ABH episode with the guy managing Northampton? Or Portsmouth? Or Crewe? My answer would be "yes". He's entitled to apply and get that role. I like the smack double pun in one hit, though....
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