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Post by laughinggas on Dec 3, 2020 9:03:41 GMT
Can we recall Ogogo from Daggers would get stuck in An option worth considering. Nooooooooooooo
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Post by mangogas15 on Dec 3, 2020 9:13:27 GMT
Probably not going to watch live for a bit until the results start to pick up, I would rather miss a win than watch another defeat.
Gillingham were wasteful early doors, so I had a feeling about this one, it could easily have been another Fleetwood.
Our home form absolutely has to improve, the fans wouldn't stand for it if they were in and it's becoming a real disadvantage, our form is the worst in the division.
2 poor goals defensively.
I like Nicholson a lot, to have players like him and Oz are a luxury but his finishing has potentially now cost us 5 points. He scores that chance and the whole dynamic of the game changes. Gillingham would have had more possession, we would have defended deeper, could have even won.
We had 60% possession and 17 shots which is encouraging, but I would rather have 7 shots and 30% possession and win. We missed Daly again.
Upson out for Westbrooke please Paul, Upson and Grant are too similar, Grant looks like a rabbit in the headlights at the opposition box. His attempts at goal were poor.
Some of our efforts were close when you watch it back. We were unlucky not to score but the result on balance was right.
Shame because the Nicholson turn in the box and Oz's Saurez turn in the first half deserved better. Nice to see Oz play the whole game. Walker showed some nice touches.
I think Hanlan was a combination of not being fully fit and bottled it against his old club. 3-5-2 might be the answer Paul, Harries to come in for Baldwin, Koiki is definitely not a first teamer yet. McCormick looked decent but we have no goal scoring midfielders to take the pressure off the strikers.
Disappointing. We're going down playing like this. Gillingham are better than mid table ish. Certainly better than us.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Dec 3, 2020 9:36:09 GMT
We were 4th in the league when Benny took over. our performances were more composed organised and confident under Garner compared to last 3. I look again at what I said “it needs more Garnerball, because moving ball quickly, moving into space off the ball, and a better press than we showed last 3 league games is football. Garner wasn’t undone by garner ball, he was undone by the quality of the players. Emer, Baldwin and Killer can’t even deal with simple passes over the top. The three forwards either injured or missing the target. No one in the rest of the team helping them out with goals”. That’s all true. Those of you wanting Garner gone have what you deserve, a manager preferring Upson to Westbrook, Leahy to Totunda, Baldwin in place of someone who can defend etc.
Sometimes you back the wrong horse, it's best just to realise you did and accept that. I'm quite a simple bloke, with a very basic knowledge of football. I backed Coughlan from day one and all the evidence that followed suggest I was right to do so. I was sceptical about Garner but thought he should be given time, to a degree he was and all the evidence suggests that he didn't make a very good fist of it. Paul Tisdale may or may not prove to be the man to get us out of this mess, but we have to give him the benefit of the doubt ( we have no choice there). You seem to be keen to protect Garner from any blame for the current mess, I think the evidence suggests he doesn't deserve that protection.
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Post by laughinggas on Dec 3, 2020 9:45:22 GMT
Probably not going to watch live for a bit until the results start to pick up, I would rather miss a win than watch another defeat. Gillingham were wasteful early doors, so I had a feeling about this one, it could easily have been another Fleetwood. Our home form absolutely has to improve, the fans wouldn't stand for it if they were in and it's becoming a real disadvantage, our form is the worst in the division. 2 poor goals defensively. I like Nicholson a lot, to have players like him and Oz are a luxury but his finishing has potentially now cost us 5 points. He scores that chance and the whole dynamic of the game changes. Gillingham would have had more possession, we would have defended deeper, could have even won. We had 60% possession and 17 shots which is encouraging, but I would rather have 7 shots and 30% possession and win. We missed Daly again. Upson out for Westbrooke please Paul, Upson and Grant are too similar, Grant looks like a rabbit in the headlights at the opposition box. His attempts at goal were poor. Some of our efforts were close when you watch it back. We were unlucky not to score but the result on balance was right. Shame because the Nicholson turn in the box and Oz's Saurez turn in the first half deserved better. Nice to see Oz play the whole game. Walker showed some nice touches. I think Hanlan was a combination of not being fully fit and bottled it against his old club. 3-5-2 might be the answer Paul, Harries to come in for Baldwin, Koiki is definitely not a first teamer yet. McCormick looked decent but we have no goal scoring midfielders to take the pressure off the strikers. Disappointing. We're going down playing like this. Gillingham are better than mid table ish. Certainly better than us. Would say decision making is an issue, especially with Nicholson. A couple of time a pass rather than shot may have been more profitable. Harsh to make that observation against someone who at least had some shots. Upson now too slow for what is needed. More energy and pace needed, could Hargreaves and McCormick work together? Back four of? Grant McCormick Hargreaves Nicholson Hanlon Daly(or Oztumer) Or do we go back too three at the back? Not a clue.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Dec 3, 2020 9:50:27 GMT
An option worth considering. Nooooooooooooo You didn't think Ogogo did well for us?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Posts: 8,123
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 3, 2020 10:02:14 GMT
You didn't think Ogogo did well for us? Pretty sure a vast majority were bewildered by the decision to let Ogogo go out on loan. What we need right now is someone to fight in midfield. I think Grant is doing OK, but pretty much on his own. I'd have Ogogo and Grant as holding midfielders and start to make us difficult to beat. We are far too lightweight in midfield and easily bullied out of it. Wimbledon will be licking their lips.
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simonj
Archie Stevens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 817
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Post by simonj on Dec 3, 2020 10:21:14 GMT
4th in the league to this crap in less than a year. I wonder how Wael and others that disliked the winning football under Coughlan and his battlers, now feel about it in retrospect? Ok then, why didn't Dunford etc give Holloway more to spend when we were on the cusp of something very special, how do we feel about that in retrospect.
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Post by mangogas15 on Dec 3, 2020 10:26:34 GMT
You didn't think Ogogo did well for us? I also backed Garners decision at the time because if the vision we were being sold and wanted it to work, as it eventually didn't we are now left needing a player of his experience and bite to compliment the stamina of Grant.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 3, 2020 10:32:09 GMT
You didn't think Ogogo did well for us? Pretty sure a vast majority were bewildered by the decision to let Ogogo go out on loan. What we need right now is someone to fight in midfield. I think Grant is doing OK, but pretty much on his own. I'd have Ogogo and Grant as holding midfielders and start to make us difficult to beat. We are far too lightweight in midfield and easily bullied out of it. Wimbledon will be licking their lips. And I'd add to that 4 at the back. We don't have 3 decent CB's, so why persevere with playing 3 of them every game? I'd have two tough tackling full backs with Ehmer + Harries. We've got to tighten things up. Playing tippy tappy and getting bullied will see us relegated unless Mr Tisdale can change our ethos.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Dec 3, 2020 10:41:34 GMT
A few of us asked 'who is going to win the ball now Ollie and Abu have gone'?
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Dec 3, 2020 10:52:38 GMT
I've not actually seen so much of it,so please tell me where I go wrong....
GK is good,very much missed when away on international duty.
Defence,lacks concentration and clarity of duties.
Midfield does'nt compete or create enough.
Striker/s don't score enough.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 3, 2020 10:55:21 GMT
I've not actually seen so much of it,so please tell me where I go wrong.... GK is good,very much missed when away on international duty. Defence,lacks concentration and clarity of duties. Midfield does'nt compete or create enough. Striker/s don't score enough. Sounds about right. We are 1/11th of the way there.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
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Posts: 1,337
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Post by TaiwanGas on Dec 3, 2020 10:58:52 GMT
With a 3.00am KO in Taiwan which I waited up for, I had the good sense to turn off ifollow at half time and go to sleep, the berk that is Evans was a disgrace, spoilt my viewing long before we gave up on the 15 min mark, somebody should have a word with him.
As for the game, or first 45 mins, very poor, Garner's lightweights no match for an ok'ish Gills side who were less physical than usual, perhaps they felt sorry for us.
At present, this is not a team capable of competing and staying in L1, it is a collection of mostly young players, with differing styles brought in by Garner & Co to develop and sell on for profit, following this flawed logic some of these players being regular starters, should, in my opinion, only be fringe or development players, not match-day squad week in - week out. These young players who I have no doubt are trying, are made to run around without the end product and simply get bullied, they are in development, and should not be expected to perform like seasoned pro's, which we now sorely need.
Tisdale has his work cut out to keep us up, Tisdale has his work cut out to hopefully make us play as a team, listening to his post match interview he sounded very disapointed with the wing back formation we have been using, that is, If I was reading him right.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Dec 3, 2020 11:01:21 GMT
I've not actually seen so much of it,so please tell me where I go wrong.... GK is good,very much missed when away on international duty. Defence,lacks concentration and clarity of duties. Midfield does'nt compete or create enough. Striker/s don't score enough. Sounds about right. We are 1/11th of the way there. Haha!😄 So,PT must offer clear instructions of duties to defenders.In scenario they still don't get it,sign an old dog and organiser.A la our x Millwall Captain of last season,Tony Craig eg. It seems we need some bite in the midfield.Eg,we could have it with a call to The Daggers today and get Abu back for the season.I think once we are bullied less,we will become more creative anyway,simply by having more possession. Upfront.I think we need to sign maybe 2 more strikers.
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phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Dec 3, 2020 11:41:49 GMT
"Tisdale has his work cut out to hopefully make us play as a team, listening to his post match interview he sounded very disapointed with the wing back formation we have been using, that is, If I was reading him right."
I felt this as well - we were worse with the wing backs than beforehand. 4-2-3-1 would seem to suit us best, but boy are we now reaping the so-called rewards of Garner only securing 3 strikers. 3! All I can say is that I do have faith in Tisdale and I didn't in Garner, but he can only work with what he's got. We can some good individual players. Some other small green shoots are that PT has clearly told them to shoot more since he took over; and the Oztuma / McCormick combo looks very promising.
What a depressing 2020! COVID & 3 league wins all year!!!
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vaughan
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Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Dec 3, 2020 12:37:08 GMT
As PT said, there are "obvious flaws".
There is a lack of strength and zip.
Garner tried to model us into a fluid unit, but our DNA is an academy side playing in L1.
PT has very little chance of rescuing this until January. Kilgour will only get his confidence back when he is alongside Davies. Baldwin reminds me of Graham Day.
I would definitely include Liddle, Hargreaves in midfield as Grant is poor and we need some legs and drive. Rodman needs to come into team as he can score goals.
I do believe that there are 4 sides worse than us in Wigan, Burton, Northampton and Swindon, but not more than that.
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Post by tenniscourtgas on Dec 3, 2020 12:51:17 GMT
I thought that Gillingham were a much more effective side,bigger, psychically stronger, who played basic League 1 football, causing so many problems for the Rovers defence. It was alarming how much Ehmer and Baldwin struggled when the ball was in the air, especially in the first half. It can’t do the younger players any good, when the more experienced players they look to, are not dominating, and making howlers virtually every match. Nicholson has the ability to take players on, and also make his own chances, similar to Bodin in that respect, although, the Rochdale match apart, he sadly lacks his shooting prowess, finishing wastefully far too often. Despite Rovers having much more possession in the second half, a Gillingham breakaway goal always looked more likely than an equalizer Oztumer showed plenty of quality on the ball at times, but again Rovers set pieces, especially corners, didn’t threaten. To play a slick, short passing game, you need players who have a good first touch, can kpand move McCormick works hard, and chased back hard to block off Akinde, but unfortunately injured himself, Grant couldn’t do the same thing in the build up to the second Gillingham goal. Hare was disappointing again, making basic passing errors, one match, you think he has cracked it, then the following match he disappoints.. However, there is no JCH figure up front to hold the ball up effectively, or be a real handful in the air when he crosses the ball. Hanlon has his own qualities, but that is not really his game, he showed plenty of ability in the Lincoln match, when the ball was played more to his feet, but he did have Daly as suppler in that game, No goals scored against Swindon, Wigan and Gillingham says it all at the moment, and who would have expected MK Dons to have won at Charlton, or Northampton to beat Fleetwood? Swindon seemed to have picked up a bit in the last couple of weeks, hopefully the new manager bounce, as they looked awful against us. Can’t see Oxford staying down near the bottom for too long, they have goal scorers in their side, I seem to remember they had a similar start last season, we don’t want a gap developing above the bottom three or four, don’t envy Tisdale sorting this situation out.
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simonj
Archie Stevens
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Posts: 817
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Post by simonj on Dec 3, 2020 13:27:16 GMT
I've not actually seen so much of it,so please tell me where I go wrong.... GK is good,very much missed when away on international duty. Defence,lacks concentration and clarity of duties. Midfield does'nt compete or create enough. Striker/s don't score enough. Agree with that Basel. Last night we looked great for 15-20 mins, but the other lot worked it out and were far stronger all round.
Defence is extraordinary, in a not so good way. Not overly dominant in the air, mistake ridden and they don't seem very strong. Its time for a defensive four, holding their shape and concentrating on defending (both goals yesterday were defensive nightmares). This should leave 4 across the middle with one proper winger, one more defensive and two a little more fluid. Two up top.
I suppose the modern way is one up top and 5 in the middle, but it just feels like a lack of responsibility. Not asking for him back, but when we had Ollie in the middle, of course he would get booked but you knew he would be accountable and getting in good strong tackles.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
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Post by TaiwanGas on Dec 3, 2020 13:49:19 GMT
Gill's for as long as I can remember field a physically big and strong team, I thought they were below the usual punching weight yesterday, luckily for us.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
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Post by harrybuckle on Dec 3, 2020 17:24:54 GMT
Tisdale will get us out of this hole and inject some experience in January. Some of our unused fringe players need off loading Kelly. Rodman and Liddle.
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