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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 18, 2020 20:06:09 GMT
Garnerball can not be difficult to learn, Oztumer turns up and is on the pitch a couple days later. That’s because ‘Garnerball’ makes it sound like some mythical system or style of play that’s attempting to revolutionise the way the game is played. Where as in reality it’s just a team of more technically proficient players than last season trying to hoof it a bit less. there was no Garner ball out there this weekend, we were sluggish at pressing and poor moving the ball quick and accurately. you are all wrong. You are allowing the two good performances and wins and 7 Points to fuzz your critical antennae. The same performance after four straight defeats, this thread would be all wailing and gnashing of teeth. our Burton Performance was a bald testicle with an uncertain face.
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Post by toteend3 on Oct 18, 2020 20:39:09 GMT
I have backed BG throughout his tenure, one exception was back to to early March. However we are now into a new season with arguably a vastly improved squad and I have stuck my neck out backed him to do us proud.. UTG My GasHead friend, I tried to keep the UTG in as totally agree with that. We want the same things. Also have aligned with vastly improved squad, backing tenure up until March, and new season.... but where we differ is, I have stuck my neck out backed him not to do us proud. I think BG management approach is questionable.. I'm sorry if this has offended you (or others, because you're all Gas) enough to propose your rant, but like you say this is a forum and we are all within the profound George quotes.... and it's based on what I think I've seen with my own eyes spending my own money and time....as much as valid as anyone in similar place. We are still some way apart, but if our alignment is as close as it has been since March, and we are still diametrically opposed, then that's worth celebrating! Excellent news! ....I hope one day we will be completely aligned, on same page, and I hope it will be your page, but at this moment I'm far from convinced. There's too many variables . Lovely to quote yourself, btw, that takes courage. Fair play. As ever time will tell, but I think it's an encouraging last 3 games in performance and results. Agreed, since Doncaster we been good starting with 2-0 Win against Northampton which could have been 4-0. Draw against Oxford very unlucky to concede a last minute goal. Lesson learned finally got that alllusive away win at top of the table Lincoln. Yesterday, a tad disappointing we should have put the game to bed well before Burton scored, nevertheless a inch lower and Nichols would have broke his duck or the linesman done his job we would had a pen. Looking forward to Shrewsbury, in as much that we have a team that is slowly growing in confidence - three points very doable. How far this team will go this season, as you say only time will tell. Also pleasing is a lot the negativity regarding BG's poor record of only two wins out of a million games has for the time being gone way (hopefully for ever). Really good input and as you say we come a long way since March come the end off the season you will agree that I was right!
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Post by toteend3 on Oct 18, 2020 21:03:40 GMT
That’s because ‘Garnerball’ makes it sound like some mythical system or style of play that’s attempting to revolutionise the way the game is played. Where as in reality it’s just a team of more technically proficient players than last season trying to hoof it a bit less. there was no Garner ball out there this weekend, we were sluggish at pressing and poor moving the ball quick and accurately. you are all wrong. You are allowing the two good performances and wins and 7 Points to fuzz your critical antennae. The same performance after four straight defeats, this thread would be all wailing and gnashing of teeth. our Burton Performance was a bald testicle with an uncertain face. View Attachment A bald testicle is that some kinda of delicasy from the local takeway menu no. 69 - Chinese balls - Sorry old boy but we cant all be wrong it's you who is Wong! UTG
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 22:39:23 GMT
First duck report of the season. Duckling and I only. No elder drake with us. I Follow was basic, but reliable for me. I can't get Radio Bristol here; I enjoyed the commentary. Burton weren't that good and we should have won. We didn't play well enough, enough of the time. I enjoyed Westbrook, Hare, and Hanlan most. Quarters are the right way round. Back and sleeves should be quartered. Shorts should be white (socks blue). I still hate to see empty grounds. I still don't count it as a match we 'attended' or even 'saw'. However good I Follow gets, it still doesn't count for us. I think we'll be alright this season. I think we'll win, draw, and lose in similar number in mid-table. I don't like the cut of Garner's jib. But there's no way he should be going anywhere.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 18, 2020 23:02:40 GMT
there was no Garner ball out there this weekend, we were sluggish at pressing and poor moving the ball quick and accurately. you are all wrong. You are allowing the two good performances and wins and 7 Points to fuzz your critical antennae. The same performance after four straight defeats, this thread would be all wailing and gnashing of teeth. our Burton Performance was a bald testicle with an uncertain face. View Attachment A bald testicle is that some kinda of delicasy from the local takeway menu no. 69 - Chinese balls - Sorry old boy but we cant all be wrong it's you who is Wong! UTG take a look at it. Would you put that in your mouth? I can list positives. Ansii looked in good form and can’t be faulted. And it’s interesting Daly was again right place and time to score for second consecutive match. But I have listed in this thread so many negatives from performance the team should learn from on the journey they are on. Away from media the team and management need to look critically at that performance. is it not important for us fans to be on the same journey they are on, rather than a different page? Regardless what a booky will predict You can’t control results in football, look at what happened to Liverpool and Tottenham in this round of fixtures, Man U and Liverpool in last round of fixtures. But you should be able to control and be consistent in aspects of performance. I think the key lesson in Monday’s debrief is not how to defend narrow lead, we chose too early to slow the the game down rather than defend with tempo from the front, with the lead our tempo went off cliff and we stopped playing for territory, more important than that is how sides will watch us and make plans to nullify us, such as if you are looking to play down a certain side or hit it mostly into one player all the time, they can be ready for that. This team needs to learn quickly how to play in different ways, short or long, one side or other, into this person or that, and make those decisions on the pitch, rather than continuing with something otherside have come ready for. Also, even in some of our defeats we had more intensity and focus from the whistle than we managed in the first quarter of match here, and that’s where you need leaders on the park to step up.
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 19, 2020 6:25:59 GMT
That’s because ‘Garnerball’ makes it sound like some mythical system or style of play that’s attempting to revolutionise the way the game is played. Where as in reality it’s just a team of more technically proficient players than last season trying to hoof it a bit less. there was no Garner ball out there this weekend, we were sluggish at pressing and poor moving the ball quick and accurately. you are all wrong. You are allowing the two good performances and wins and 7 Points to fuzz your critical antennae. The same performance after four straight defeats, this thread would be all wailing and gnashing of teeth. our Burton Performance was a bald testicle with an uncertain face. View Attachment 😆
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Post by toteend3 on Oct 19, 2020 7:12:48 GMT
A bald testicle is that some kinda of delicasy from the local takeway menu no. 69 - Chinese balls - Sorry old boy but we cant all be wrong it's you who is Wong! UTG take a look at it. Would you put that in your mouth? View AttachmentI can list positives. Ansii looked in good form and can’t be faulted. And it’s interesting Daly was again right place and time to score for second consecutive match. But I have listed in this thread so many negatives from performance the team should learn from on the journey they are on. Away from media the team and management need to look critically at that performance. is it not important for us fans to be on the same journey they are on, rather than a different page? Regardless what a booky will predict You can’t control results in football, look at what happened to Liverpool and Tottenham in this round of fixtures, Man U and Liverpool in last round of fixtures. But you should be able to control and be consistent in aspects of performance. I think the key lesson in Monday’s debrief is not how to defend narrow lead, we chose too early to slow the the game down rather than defend with tempo from the front, with the lead our tempo went off cliff and we stopped playing for territory, more important than that is how sides will watch us and make plans to nullify us, such as if you are looking to play down a certain side or hit it mostly into one player all the time, they can be ready for that. This team needs to learn quickly how to play in different ways, short or long, one side or other, into this person or that, and make those decisions on the pitch, rather than continuing with something otherside have come ready for. Also, even in some of our defeats we had more intensity and focus from the whistle than we managed in the first quarter of match here, and that’s where you need leaders on the park to step up. I might manage one could not manage two as that could be ratatouille which could turn out to be an artichoke -I think you could manage ............. the team - execellent summery if BG sees it the same way we've got chances of a good campaign! UTG
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Igitur
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Post by Igitur on Oct 19, 2020 7:38:56 GMT
...more important than that is how sides will watch us and make plans to nullify us, such as if you are looking to play down a certain side or hit it mostly into one player all the time, they can be ready for that... Spot on, we relied too much on Hanlan and practically every ball was played to him even from goal. So, as seen before this season, two men marked him, now this releases freedom up front for other players but not having another Hanlan type forward causes problems. We can have an XI of midfielders, but not even a five aside of forwards.
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GasMacc1
Les Bradd
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Post by GasMacc1 on Oct 19, 2020 8:02:52 GMT
I think the key lesson in Monday’s debrief is not how to defend narrow lead I'm not sure whether you meant that, but I disagree (...or do I?). We seem to shut-up shop as soon as we take the lead (even with a big chunk of the match still to play). But that invites pressure on us and concedes a lot of possession. So, with a lot of the ball, the opposition naturally speed the game up, how ever much we want to try to slow down the tempo. If it goes well for us, and we repel every attack, and the opposition commit more and more people forward, we might counter against a depleted back-line and extend our lead. (I can't remember a single counter-attack against Burton when we were 1-0 up. I can remember three at Sunderland though: a shot narrowly over the bar, and two breaks, one of which should have ended with a sending off for Wright). But having to play that way for over 40 minutes (as on Saturday) or for over 80 minutes (as at Sunderland), even with a little bit of bad luck, or a single mistake, we are likely to concede. What's the alternative? Ramp up the pressure on the opposition to barnstorm a second goal immediately after the first? Maybe that's naive (as naive as the commentary of Hadwin and Brookman, who seem to lose patience and declare the match a bore if we're not 3-0 up at half-time). It was noticeable, though, as soon as we conceded against Burton and we had to start committing forward again, we carved out three or four good efforts on goal in very little time. So I think we do need to review how to play when we have taken the lead...!
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 19, 2020 8:15:14 GMT
I think the key lesson in Monday’s debrief is not how to defend narrow lead I'm not sure whether you meant that, but I disagree (...or do I?). We seem to shut-up shop as soon as we take the lead (even with a big chunk of the match still to play). But that invites pressure on us and concedes a lot of possession. So, with a lot of the ball, the opposition naturally speed the game up, how ever much we want to try to slow down the tempo. If it goes well for us, and we repel every attack, and the opposition commit more and more people forward, we might counter against a depleted back-line and extend our lead. (I can't remember a single counter-attack against Burton when we were 1-0 up. I can remember three at Sunderland though: a shot narrowly over the bar, and two breaks, one of which should have ended with a sending off for Wright). But having to play that way for over 40 minutes (as on Saturday) or for over 80 minutes (as at Sunderland), even with a little bit of bad luck, or a single mistake, we are likely to concede. What's the alternative? Ramp up the pressure on the opposition to barnstorm a second goal immediately after the first? Maybe that's naive (as naive as the commentary of Hadwin and Brookman, who seem to lose patience and declare the match a bore if we're not 3-0 up at half-time). It was noticeable, though, as soon as we conceded against Burton and we had to start committing forward again, we carved out three or four good efforts on goal in very little time. So I think we do need to review how to play when we have taken the lead...! To continue to play in the exactly the same way as we did before scoring. And not make defensive substitutions.
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GasMacc1
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Post by GasMacc1 on Oct 19, 2020 8:29:22 GMT
Maybe. Burton players looked gutted when we went 1-0 up. Ripe for conceding a second? Encouraging them to come at us, even though they spent the next half hour failing to score, re-built their confidence.
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GasMacc1
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Post by GasMacc1 on Oct 19, 2020 8:37:57 GMT
If we had, say, one of the strongest defensive capabilities in League One, then I could see the logic. Take the lead, hold on to it in confidence.
But what happened for the Burton goal? Their corner came after two or three close calls in quick succession - OK, they didn't score from them. But as the ball came across from the corner on the edge of the 6-yard box, Josh Grant didn't head it away, Zain Westbrooke (in close proximity) seemed to see it late (or not at all) and it rebounded off him back towards the goal-line where it was always likely to be scrambled in. We needed someone in an Ellis Harrison-type, free to head the ball away.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 19, 2020 9:02:18 GMT
I'm not sure whether you meant that, but I disagree (...or do I?). We seem to shut-up shop as soon as we take the lead (even with a big chunk of the match still to play). But that invites pressure on us and concedes a lot of possession. So, with a lot of the ball, the opposition naturally speed the game up, how ever much we want to try to slow down the tempo. If it goes well for us, and we repel every attack, and the opposition commit more and more people forward, we might counter against a depleted back-line and extend our lead. (I can't remember a single counter-attack against Burton when we were 1-0 up. I can remember three at Sunderland though: a shot narrowly over the bar, and two breaks, one of which should have ended with a sending off for Wright). But having to play that way for over 40 minutes (as on Saturday) or for over 80 minutes (as at Sunderland), even with a little bit of bad luck, or a single mistake, we are likely to concede. What's the alternative? Ramp up the pressure on the opposition to barnstorm a second goal immediately after the first? Maybe that's naive (as naive as the commentary of Hadwin and Brookman, who seem to lose patience and declare the match a bore if we're not 3-0 up at half-time). It was noticeable, though, as soon as we conceded against Burton and we had to start committing forward again, we carved out three or four good efforts on goal in very little time. So I think we do need to review how to play when we have taken the lead...! To continue to play in the exactly the same way as we did before scoring. And not make defensive substitutions. It was the two BG substitutions that affected the result, imo. But to make that a point of why we lost is harsh. The point being: BG took off Daly, without suitable replacement, rendering us with his favoured one striker....as he's done for most matches up until October. I see this as a huge mistake because it invites opposition teams to push on to us and unless we have a bone fide threat such as counter attack players sh*t off a shovel, we have and always will struggle. That's one reason why I think BG is not a good manager....but we're on a decent run and for me earns a bit of respect so cut him some slack.
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simonj
Archie Stevens
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Post by simonj on Oct 19, 2020 9:11:15 GMT
To continue to play in the exactly the same way as we did before scoring. And not make defensive substitutions. It was the two BG substitutions that affected the result, imo. But to make that a point of why we lost is harsh. The point being: BG took off Daly, without suitable replacement, rendering us with his favoured one striker....as he's done for most matches up until October. I see this as a huge mistake because it invites opposition teams to push on to us and unless we have a bone fide threat such as counter attack players sh*t off a shovel, we have and always will struggle. That's one reason why I think BG is not a good manager....but we're on a decent run and for me earns a bit of respect so cut him some slack. Interesting read, if this cutting the guy some slack.....
Sports psychology is a weird thing. Going in front and 'sitting' back always looks like the wrong decision when it doesn't work. If's and buts, but had they not spawned that scrappy goal, and had our no9 scored as he should have done, and had the ref given the stonewall, not just handball but a shot heading goalward being blocked by hand, I will say it for BG, a dreadful decision.
I viewed the game as slightly boring, but again bits of promise being shown and a game we should have won.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2020 9:14:41 GMT
Totally agree that we can't try to defend one goal leads, although I thought that was interceptor's point too. Consensus Monday.
If whatever the team are doing leads to possession and then scoring a goal without conceding, then the team ought to notice that, to carry that on, and to repeat similar to what worked in order to repeat the effect. Score a second without conceding, and the result may be secure. Score a second while also conceding one, and we're still leading 2-1. This is not the 1990s, we are not George Graham's Arsenal, nor are we a 1980 Serie A side who know what cattenacio means.
If something gets us ahead, then don't mess around with it. Trying to sure it up by subbing off creativity for defence means we stop creating and spend the rest of the game defending. Don't do what our opponents would want us to do, and don't choose to defend, at home, against Burton bloody Albion.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 19, 2020 9:40:25 GMT
It was the two BG substitutions that affected the result, imo. But to make that a point of why we lost is harsh. The point being: BG took off Daly, without suitable replacement, rendering us with his favoured one striker....as he's done for most matches up until October. I see this as a huge mistake because it invites opposition teams to push on to us and unless we have a bone fide threat such as counter attack players sh*t off a shovel, we have and always will struggle. That's one reason why I think BG is not a good manager....but we're on a decent run and for me earns a bit of respect so cut him some slack. Interesting read, if this cutting the guy some slack.....
Sports psychology is a weird thing. Going in front and 'sitting' back always looks like the wrong decision when it doesn't work. If's and buts, but had they not spawned that scrappy goal, and had our no9 scored as he should have done, and had the ref given the stonewall, not just handball but a shot heading goalward being blocked by hand, I will say it for BG, a dreadful decision.
I viewed the game as slightly boring, but again bits of promise being shown and a game we should have won.
It could be argued we spawned a goal too, not scrappy, brilliant finish, but both were unforced errors and opportunistic. Good points with other incidents that could have made a difference, but what we did see was a (again) change around the 70 minute mark that (again) left us with only one striker and that led directly to us not winning. Again. Slack has been cut, but like others have said we should have put the game to bed and didn't.
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simonj
Archie Stevens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 817
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Post by simonj on Oct 19, 2020 9:48:20 GMT
Interesting read, if this cutting the guy some slack.....
Sports psychology is a weird thing. Going in front and 'sitting' back always looks like the wrong decision when it doesn't work. If's and buts, but had they not spawned that scrappy goal, and had our no9 scored as he should have done, and had the ref given the stonewall, not just handball but a shot heading goalward being blocked by hand, I will say it for BG, a dreadful decision.
I viewed the game as slightly boring, but again bits of promise being shown and a game we should have won.
It could be argued we spawned a goal too, not scrappy, brilliant finish, but both were unforced errors and opportunistic. Good points with other incidents that could have made a difference, but what we did see was a (again) change around the 70 minute mark that (again) left us with only one striker and that led directly to us not winning. Again. Slack has been cut, but like others have said we should have put the game to bed and didn't. Yep, that's fair n square.
Not dragging up old arguments, but cant think of many managers we have had that would go for it; Olly would have gone for a second, others since would probably try to hold on 70mins into the game, but sneak another. Certainly the last one would have, and even King DC before.
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 19, 2020 10:36:59 GMT
It was the two BG substitutions that affected the result, imo. But to make that a point of why we lost is harsh. The point being: BG took off Daly, without suitable replacement, rendering us with his favoured one striker....as he's done for most matches up until October. I see this as a huge mistake because it invites opposition teams to push on to us and unless we have a bone fide threat such as counter attack players sh*t off a shovel, we have and always will struggle. That's one reason why I think BG is not a good manager....but we're on a decent run and for me earns a bit of respect so cut him some slack. Interesting read, if this cutting the guy some slack.....
Sports psychology is a weird thing. Going in front and 'sitting' back always looks like the wrong decision when it doesn't work. If's and buts, but had they not spawned that scrappy goal, and had our no9 scored as he should have done, and had the ref given the stonewall, not just handball but a shot heading goalward being blocked by hand, I will say it for BG, a dreadful decision.
I viewed the game as slightly boring, but again bits of promise being shown and a game we should have won.
Agree, going for a second and being caught on a counter attack would then be wrong. It's about adapting to the game and doing your job well. We didn't because we didn't keep the ball well and didn't defend that corner.
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Post by Colyton Gas. on Oct 19, 2020 11:07:03 GMT
Our goal Sat was following a poor defensive header which we took full advantage of but the lack of creativity otherwise was a concern. Remember Shrews is a 6pm KO.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 19, 2020 11:15:04 GMT
It could be argued we spawned a goal too, not scrappy, brilliant finish, but both were unforced errors and opportunistic. Good points with other incidents that could have made a difference, but what we did see was a (again) change around the 70 minute mark that (again) left us with only one striker and that led directly to us not winning. Again. Slack has been cut, but like others have said we should have put the game to bed and didn't. Yep, that's fair n square.
Not dragging up old arguments, but cant think of many managers we have had that would go for it; Olly would have gone for a second, others since would probably try to hold on 70mins into the game, but sneak another. Certainly the last one would have, and even King DC before.
Agree with the old argument amnesty. I would wrap it up by saying a good manager plays and draws on strengths. Our defence isn't a strength this season with too many unforced errors and intermittent ponderous play. In essence, the dual substitution helped our opponents more and unfortunately I've seen that regularly under BG tenure.
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