jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 1, 2020 9:22:25 GMT
So the domestic season starts today. Somerset start at home to Glamorgan amidst the uncertainty created by Jamie Overton's imminent departure to money bags Surrey. That's the kind of departure that's deviating for a county. Somerset have invested so much in Overton and haven't really got the best from him, ostensibly due to injury. I wonder if Somerset will try and get Connor McKerr from Surrey as a replacement? To me, this reinforces the need to some kind of compensation system in cricket, especially for home grown players.
Gloucestershire host Worcester. Both sides look a bit light in the batting department. I'm looking forward to seeing how the new broadcast set up works.
Hard to look beyond Essex again to win. No bopara, and no Wagner or Siddle, but I'm not sure they've lost anyone else to the England side, unless Lawrence ends up in the test reserves. Hopefully the 5 fixture set up throws out a surprise winner.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 3, 2020 12:12:51 GMT
I've seen some of the streaming from Bristol. The wicket seemed very flat. Glos clearly didn't get enough runs and Worcester are batting themselves into a very strong position. I'd put money on the draw there though I think. Ball just isn't really doing very much.
Somerset predictably battering Glamorgan. I think it's interesting that Lancs are struggling a bit against Leicestershire.
Other observations;
-Nice to see Hameed scoring runs for Notts. I really hope he makes a success of it because it will show up Paul Allott for the incompetent fool he is - a proper nasty piece of work who should have been sacked 2 years ago when that expensive Lancs team went down and who horribly mismanaged Hameed's development.
-Interesting to see so many relatively new/unknowns about. Clearly the limits this season on signings around kolpaks and veteran contracts etc have had a major effect. Lots of youngsters playing which is quite nice to see although it makes it harder to judge the contests!
I'd like to see a surprise victor this year from one of the less fashionable counties but early going suggests that's unlikely. Essex will always be in the frame while they have Porter and Harmer but I really like the look of Warwickshire. I also thought Lancs had a decent shot at it given the depth they have and the short schedule. But perhaps I need to revise that after their performance against Leicester.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 3, 2020 14:13:15 GMT
I've seen some of the streaming from Bristol. The wicket seemed very flat. Glos clearly didn't get enough runs and Worcester are batting themselves into a very strong position. I'd put money on the draw there though I think. Ball just isn't really doing very much.
Somerset predictably battering Glamorgan. I think it's interesting that Lancs are struggling a bit against Leicestershire.
Other observations;
-Nice to see Hameed scoring runs for Notts. I really hope he makes a success of it because it will show up Paul Allott for the incompetent fool he is - a proper nasty piece of work who should have been sacked 2 years ago when that expensive Lancs team went down and who horribly mismanaged Hameed's development.
-Interesting to see so many relatively new/unknowns about. Clearly the limits this season on signings around kolpaks and veteran contracts etc have had a major effect. Lots of youngsters playing which is quite nice to see although it makes it harder to judge the contests!
I'd like to see a surprise victor this year from one of the less fashionable counties but early going suggests that's unlikely. Essex will always be in the frame while they have Porter and Harmer but I really like the look of Warwickshire. I also thought Lancs had a decent shot at it given the depth they have and the short schedule. But perhaps I need to revise that after their performance against Leicester.
I have also followed the Gloucester v Worcester game as best I can. The extra cameras are OK. There are still blind spots on the pitch but it's an improvement. I read that Worcester spent a lot of time this winter, before Covid, facing a bowling machine set up to deliver a good line and length for 2 to 3 hours. Early days obviously, but it certainly seems to have helped so far. That's the first time I can remember Worcester posting 400 in the first innings during the last couple of seasons. The pitch suggests a draw, but there is plenty of time left in the game, and Worcester had an excellent 45 minutes post lunch. A 160 run first innings deficit is a lot of scoreboard pressure. I also noticed Hammed scored a couple of 50s and I agree with you on Paul Allott. Notts have a fantastic batting line up. Samit Patel is batting at 8! They just look a little light on bowling to me. Another county that could challenge though. It's good to see a few spinners getting some overs too. 9 wickets fell to the Hampshire spinners across two innings (including Mason Crane). I know Hampshire were due to have Nathan Lyon as an overseas player this season, which I guess meant Crane would play white ball only for most of the season. I played my first game for 5 years yesterday for Worcester (which sounds very grand, not the county though, I can assure you). Just a friendly, but comically, I opened the bowling. 2-41 off 8 overs and a catch doesn't sound too bad on paper, but to say I was rusty was an understatement. I probably bowled more long - hops in my spell than I would normally bowl all season! I have to say, other than the occasional break to sanitise hands, not being able to shine the ball and not being able to use the dressing rooms, it wasn't a lot different to normal. I could still get the ball to swing at the end of my spell. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 3, 2020 18:30:59 GMT
I've seen some of the streaming from Bristol. The wicket seemed very flat. Glos clearly didn't get enough runs and Worcester are batting themselves into a very strong position. I'd put money on the draw there though I think. Ball just isn't really doing very much.
Somerset predictably battering Glamorgan. I think it's interesting that Lancs are struggling a bit against Leicestershire.
Other observations;
-Nice to see Hameed scoring runs for Notts. I really hope he makes a success of it because it will show up Paul Allott for the incompetent fool he is - a proper nasty piece of work who should have been sacked 2 years ago when that expensive Lancs team went down and who horribly mismanaged Hameed's development.
-Interesting to see so many relatively new/unknowns about. Clearly the limits this season on signings around kolpaks and veteran contracts etc have had a major effect. Lots of youngsters playing which is quite nice to see although it makes it harder to judge the contests!
I'd like to see a surprise victor this year from one of the less fashionable counties but early going suggests that's unlikely. Essex will always be in the frame while they have Porter and Harmer but I really like the look of Warwickshire. I also thought Lancs had a decent shot at it given the depth they have and the short schedule. But perhaps I need to revise that after their performance against Leicester.
I have also followed the Gloucester v Worcester game as best I can. The extra cameras are OK. There are still blind spots on the pitch but it's an improvement. I read that Worcester spent a lot of time this winter, before Covid, facing a bowling machine set up to deliver a good line and length for 2 to 3 hours. Early days obviously, but it certainly seems to have helped so far. That's the first time I can remember Worcester posting 400 in the first innings during the last couple of seasons. The pitch suggests a draw, but there is plenty of time left in the game, and Worcester had an excellent 45 minutes post lunch. A 160 run first innings deficit is a lot of scoreboard pressure. I also noticed Hammed scored a couple of 50s and I agree with you on Paul Allott. Notts have a fantastic batting line up. Samit Patel is batting at 8! They just look a little light on bowling to me. Another county that could challenge though. It's good to see a few spinners getting some overs too. 9 wickets fell to the Hampshire spinners across two innings (including Mason Crane). I know Hampshire were due to have Nathan Lyon as an overseas player this season, which I guess meant Crane would play white ball only for most of the season. I played my first game for 5 years yesterday for Worcester (which sounds very grand, not the county though, I can assure you). Just a friendly, but comically, I opened the bowling. 2-41 off 8 overs and a catch doesn't sound too bad on paper, but to say I was rusty was an understatement. I probably bowled more long - hops in my spell than I would normally bowl all season! I have to say, other than the occasional break to sanitise hands, not being able to shine the ball and not being able to use the dressing rooms, it wasn't a lot different to normal. I could still get the ball to swing at the end of my spell. Fantastic! I've never played at Worcester CC but I've been passed it a few times and it looks very nice. Bowling is much harder to get back than batting if you haven't played for a while. The rhythm and the feel etc. My club nets all through the winter which makes me quite fortunate but if I take a few months off even then it takes me a couple of sessions/games to get back into it properly. This season is really testing the science vs superstition aspect in so much of what cricketers do. I always used to lick my fingers at the start of my run - a lot of spinners do - I told myself that this made it easier to grip the ball and less likely to get stuck in my hand. Habitual behaviour so now I have to consciously tell myself not to do this and it hasn't a made a blind bit of a difference!
Interestingly we have been inanundated at my club with lots of people in your kind of shoes. People that haven't played for years and fancy giving it a go. We're thinking about setting up a temporary 5th XI so we can accommodate them all and our Juniors. One chap was fascinating. He hadn't played for 20 years when he was at school but he fancied giving it a go after watching the World Cup last season and he then taught himself left arm spin by watching Youtube Tutorials during Lockdown and watching himself shadow bowl in the mirror! And you know what - he wasn't terrible. He was very slow but most of the deliveries were basically on the money and the action looked good. I love that kind of thing - we had a Hungarian guy who played for 2 or 3 years who largely got into it out of curiosity for wanting to do a stereotypically 'English' thing but he was very committed and by the end of his time with us he was a passable 3rd XI cricketer completely from scratch at the age of 25. Sometimes I think cricket clubs are not very good at dealing with players like that - I think the ideal club should have 3 aims (1. Competitive 1st XI as reasonably possible, 2. An effective Youth Set-up that brings players 3. Can provide and support crickert for anyone who wants to play regardless of background or ability). Most clubs are pretty good at 1 and 2 these days but there's still some work to be done on 3. Take our Tennis section for example - people come down and the Tennis professional will coach them even if their 60 and never played before. I'd like cricket to be like that but there's still a bit of cliquey protectionism in some parts. It's a cultural thing rather than people being deliberately exclusion I think. It's getting better but it still has a way to go.
I've played 3/4 games in the last fortnight. It's not great for me to be honest because the regional leagues they've put us in have lumped in a 2nd XI league when we normally play majority 1st teams. Unavoidable in the circumstances. But it means we're far stronger than the opposition we're playing most weeks and it's hard to make the game competitive for everyone. Ho-Hum; that's just the way the cookie crumbles. I'm glad to be out there again. Our 1sts are having a good time and I'm also getting to play T15 (5 Overs off because of the light) which is fun except I got smacked for 15 off my first over last week!
Do you think the number of spinners taking a bigger role is to do with the time of year these games are being played? Seems possible.
For all that batting Notts have. Derby are making a good fist of the 2nd innings. That one could get really interesting if they have a good hour in the morning. Worcester making Glos work hard there and have been the better team by miles after Day 1.Glos will need a couple of batsmen to come off to save that one. Quite a few games heading for draws. Somerset have been good especially with the ball. They're another team that you'd fancy to do well although they will obviously miss their spinners.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 4, 2020 13:47:48 GMT
Worcester CC is a very short walk from my house, so it's ideal for me. I am certainly hobbling round today though. I am not sure anything uses the same set of muscles as bowling does.
Members of tennis clubs can be pretty sniffy too. I occasionally go to a club night and some of them take things far too seriously but I agree that cricket could do more to make it easier for new players. It's quite an unforgiving sport to take up though. If you can't land the ball on a reasonable line and length you aren't going to get much match practice and if you get a good ball early on, you aren't going to bat much either. If you shank a couple of tennis shots early on, you get another chance.
League games lower down the structure tend to get dominated by a couple of players in my experience. The rest make up the numbers, which is not a lot of fun. It's a bit of a vicious circle. I have often thought that leagues should offer an inclusive 20 over format on a Saturday or Sunday morning. No teas to make it cheaper and quicker. Make it 10 a side and everyone gets to bat for 4 overs in pairs and you just lose runs if you're out. Everyone has to bowl at least one over, or maybe 4 overs maximum with points given for each extra bowler used.
I think it is much easier for bigger clubs to be more inclusive. If you have a smaller, village side that compete in a league, they tend to have a couple of star players who are basically playing for your team because it's local, their mates are in the team, because they know they will get to bat and bowl, whereas at a bigger club they might do one or the other, and probably because they like being a big fish in a small pond. Then you get a few that are playing at the right standard (I was one of those) and then you get a few that should be playing at a lower standard and don't get much of a game most weeks. New players are a god send, but new players that have barely played before are really tough to incorporate. Do you bat them up the order or give them some overs and upset one of the guys that you cannot afford to lose, or do you bat them at 7 or 8 and basically use them as a specialist fielder and charge them a match fee for the privileged? If you do the latter, they are not likely to want to play for very long. If you don't get it right, you lose players, then the club folds. Half the guys will be lost to the game.
I also think cricket should be more localised where possible. The Birmingham league consists of 4 counties, Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Shropshire and Herefordshire. At the level just below county standard, you expect to travel to play competitive cricket. Once you get past the top 25 clubs, it is possible to play competitively in a county based format. I would also argue that once you get through the next 60 / 70 sides, the rest could be localised more than that. Obviously it varies more county by county, but the bottom half of the Gloucestershire county league could definitely be broken down into Stroud, Cotswold and Gloucester based leagues.
I reckon the time of year has helped spinners, but also the depth of some counties squads has dipped without overseas players. They just have fewer options available to them. Probably a bit less at stake too without relegation.
It's actually comical how thin Notts are when it comes to bowlers at the moment. Peter Trego opened the bowling in both innings! Serves them right for not giving players like Luke Wood a bit more of a chance in recent years.
I would hope that Jack Leach will be released to play a few matches for Somerset. He isn't in the squad for the next test. Without any cricket, it would be really unfair to bring him into the Test team at this point, and if the winter tours go ahead, we will need him later in the year.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 4, 2020 17:24:51 GMT
Couple of cracking finishes and some terrific results for some of the smaller counties, namely Leicester and Derby!
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 5, 2020 12:09:12 GMT
Worcester CC is a very short walk from my house, so it's ideal for me. I am certainly hobbling round today though. I am not sure anything uses the same set of muscles as bowling does. Members of tennis clubs can be pretty sniffy too. I occasionally go to a club night and some of them take things far too seriously but I agree that cricket could do more to make it easier for new players. It's quite an unforgiving sport to take up though. If you can't land the ball on a reasonable line and length you aren't going to get much match practice and if you get a good ball early on, you aren't going to bat much either. If you shank a couple of tennis shots early on, you get another chance. League games lower down the structure tend to get dominated by a couple of players in my experience. The rest make up the numbers, which is not a lot of fun. It's a bit of a vicious circle. I have often thought that leagues should offer an inclusive 20 over format on a Saturday or Sunday morning. No teas to make it cheaper and quicker. Make it 10 a side and everyone gets to bat for 4 overs in pairs and you just lose runs if you're out. Everyone has to bowl at least one over, or maybe 4 overs maximum with points given for each extra bowler used. I think it is much easier for bigger clubs to be more inclusive. If you have a smaller, village side that compete in a league, they tend to have a couple of star players who are basically playing for your team because it's local, their mates are in the team, because they know they will get to bat and bowl, whereas at a bigger club they might do one or the other, and probably because they like being a big fish in a small pond. Then you get a few that are playing at the right standard (I was one of those) and then you get a few that should be playing at a lower standard and don't get much of a game most weeks. New players are a god send, but new players that have barely played before are really tough to incorporate. Do you bat them up the order or give them some overs and upset one of the guys that you cannot afford to lose, or do you bat them at 7 or 8 and basically use them as a specialist fielder and charge them a match fee for the privileged? If you do the latter, they are not likely to want to play for very long. If you don't get it right, you lose players, then the club folds. Half the guys will be lost to the game. I also think cricket should be more localised where possible. The Birmingham league consists of 4 counties, Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Shropshire and Herefordshire. At the level just below county standard, you expect to travel to play competitive cricket. Once you get past the top 25 clubs, it is possible to play competitively in a county based format. I would also argue that once you get through the next 60 / 70 sides, the rest could be localised more than that. Obviously it varies more county by county, but the bottom half of the Gloucestershire county league could definitely be broken down into Stroud, Cotswold and Gloucester based leagues. I reckon the time of year has helped spinners, but also the depth of some counties squads has dipped without overseas players. They just have fewer options available to them. Probably a bit less at stake too without relegation. It's actually comical how thin Notts are when it comes to bowlers at the moment. Peter Trego opened the bowling in both innings! Serves them right for not giving players like Luke Wood a bit more of a chance in recent years. I would hope that Jack Leach will be released to play a few matches for Somerset. He isn't in the squad for the next test. Without any cricket, it would be really unfair to bring him into the Test team at this point, and if the winter tours go ahead, we will need him later in the year. It's interesting how the balance between a localised approach and a competitive balance approach works in different parts of the country. That was a big deal in the WEPL a few years ago. Fair enough that guys who are playing one notch below County should be willing to travel to play the best standard they can but you had 2nd teams travelling a huge distance and cost some clubs players. So they junked that and put the 2nd teams into the first team competitions but lower down where it was more regional. That worked well for the big clubs but caused massive ructions for the smaller ones who ended up having to drop down the leagues and sometimes had to play big clubs 3rd XIs at poor quality grounds. The smaller club I played for in the Bristol and District League lost it's 2nd XI because of that change as half the first team left as they weren't prepared to play at the lower level on crapper grounds. They saw themselves as '1st XI' cricketers. It's definitely easier to get balance if you have a bigger club offering a wider variety of formats/leels. In Greater Manchester they've actually expanded the Geographical reach in recent years in order to make the League more competitive but you can do that when everyone is only 3 or miles either side of the M60 ring road anyway. It's a difficult balance to get right.
They could certainly do more with T20. There's far too little T20 played in the Westcountry in particular in my experience. We have it much better up here because our 1sts and 2nd can both play T20 comps which given midweek availability means most of our playing members get a chance to play T20. We also have a causal T20 league for more occasional player which works well.
Managing club cricket on the day is a tough business and it's very hard to keep everyone happy because people often have such different motivations for being there. I was captain of our 2nds for 4 years. If I gave the lesser player a chance in my 2nd XI or gave a kid a few developmental overs I would get bollocked by the 2 veteran ex-pros who play with us that they are wasting their Saturday afternoon because we're not playing proper competitive cricket (and to be fair we do play in a 1st XI league with oppositions that have pros/OAs etc). However, If I didn't give them a chance then when we did really need them in August when availability is sketchy then they're not going to want to play. Almost impossible to get right and very few people are capable of seeing the bigger picture either way. Plus cricket is a naturally bitchy and very political game anyway so there's always something for someone to moan about. In no other sport is the captain quite such a gatekeeper to people's capacity to enjoy their afternoon. It's a tough gig.
Some very interesting scores;
Ceertainly the Derbyshire and Leicester wins standout. That must be a very sweet win for Derby. Even in the weird circumstances their fans must be getting a lot of satisfaction from that. Lancs misfiring is interesting. I certainly didn't see that coming but Leicester clearly outplayed them. I only watched a little bit of the Glos-Worcs game yesterday (bloody work - damned inconvenient!) but I think I saw a key moment with Mitchell getting Higgins LBW. Looked a dodgy one. Glos were looking fairly comfortably up to that point but ultimately ran out of batting Worcs were the better team for the majority of that game and deserved to win. Warwcks-Northants looked a weird match on the scorecard! I also think, even though they one, Yorks labouring against Durham was indicative. I don't think they are going to be a big feature in this. Kent made Essex sweat more than I thought they would. I'd definitely look at Somerset because they get to follow that game against Glamorgan with a trip to Northants. So thre's a great chance to win 2 out of 2 and really get the momentum behind them.
Plus International Cricket (too much going on right now - from famine to feast)!
Looking forward to this series. A good balanced morning but getting Azhar Ali definitely gives England the slight edge I think. Pakistan need one of the Azhar or Babar Azam to get a score normally. Their bowling looks very tasty and we might regret having to go with the extra bowler if they get us 3 down quickly with the new ball. I think it's going to be a fun series.
Oh and Ireland beat us in an ODI last night which might be the 2nd/3rd most significant result in their history but is currently a bit of a footnote with everything else that's going on! |
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 5, 2020 12:41:39 GMT
It is difficult to get the balance right at the middling level, although I have played at plenty of really poor first XI grounds too. Should be easier at the top and the bottom though.
It feels wide open across the board doesn't it? Yorkshire will have Bairstow back for a couple of games. It will be interesting to see how he goes. Ditto Moeen Ali at Worcester, who looked absolutely shot again last night. Somerset feel a bit light on batting to me, but they certainly have plenty of depth to their batting order. The Higgins LBW wasn't the only contentious one. Roderick was given out LBW off the bowling of Leach. He offered no shot, but it looked far too high for me when I saw the highlights earlier on. You're always vulnerable if you score less than 300 in the first innings on a decent batting track though.
I think my take away from the ODI series is that England do not have a replacement for Plunkett at the moment and are overly reliant on Rashid to take wickets between overs 10 and 40. I can't remember may occasions over the last 4 years in which England didn't take a single wicket in the middle overs. Perhaps Wood or Archer could fulfill that role when they are back in the side, but the three they picked yesterday are either good at the start, or at the death. I think we've also learned that Vince isn't really a good enough backup. I would much rather have seen Livingstone or Hain get a run out.
The test series should be a cracker. I can't wait to watch Pakistan bowl. My only complain is that this is only a 3 test series. It makes the first test really important, as I am not sure I can see either side coming back and winning from 1-0 down.
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 6, 2020 16:22:25 GMT
Just watched the two wickets of England fall, and can't help feeling that if England appealed the way that Pakistan, do then there would be mutterings of over enthusiasm from those "within"
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 8, 2020 17:39:09 GMT
well that was out of the fire!! fair play to Joss for he has had a mare behind the stumps, but "run chase mode" kicks in and he is virtually unbeatable on the day, top class partnership with Woakes , remarkable win against the odds at the start of this 2nd innings
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 10, 2020 12:47:58 GMT
Just watched the two wickets of England fall, and can't help feeling that if England appealed the way that Pakistan, do then there would be mutterings of over enthusiasm from those "within" England can be just as bad. Stuart Broad's "celebrappeal" is arguably against the spirit of the game and it usually passes without comment. Besides, given the "umpires call" ruling, appealing as enthusiastically as possible feels like a legitimate tactic to me. Buttler and Woakes were great yesterday. It's clearly the kind of innings that the England management have been desperate for Buttler to play since he came back in to the side, and to be fair, it's difficult to see Ben Foakes playing that kind of innings. The way he took the game to Pakistan was really impressive. I hope he kicks on from here but I have my doubts. He's played a lot of test matches and his average, and number of match winning performances are sparce. Good to see Woakes finding some form with the bat again. For my money, he is our best bowler in English conditions at the moment. I know he has a dismal record away from home, but he is hindered by the presence of Broad and Anderson. How often does he get the new ball? How often does he get to bowl to the lower order? How often is he picked in a balanced attack that contains some pace and variety? I am not suggesting it would be a sensible tactic, but I wonder what the impact to Anderson and Woakes's respective records away from home would be if Anderson became the change bowler and Woakes became the new ball bowler? I think Jimmy is probably lucky that Stokes is unavailable for the next test. He may have found himself rested had we been able to go back to 3 front line seamers. I don't think he had an especially bad game actually, it's just that Woakes and Broad are bowling better than him at the moment. I think I'd rest Archer next time round. He is off the pace at the moment. He is still a very good bowler when operating at 85mph, it's just that we have a lot of those. The bowling coach and head coach need to try and work out what's caused the drop off in pace. If he's worried about his injury and he doesn't trust his body, or if it's just a lack of rhythm, then perhaps switching to the one day squad might be an option. I'd pick Wood, Anderson, Broad and Woakes. Our batting still looks light though. I am not usually in favour of playing with no spinner, but I am sure England will give some consideration to dropping Bess for an out and out batsman. From a neutrals perspective, it's a bit of a shame that Pakistan couldn't get over the line in this test. I am not writing them off, because Pakistan usually do well when their backs are to the wall, but it will be really difficult for them to win the series from 1 down I think. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 20, 2020 23:04:11 GMT
OK so the last Test was a mammoth dissapointment and damp squib and unfortuntely the next one looks quite likely to be as well. Shame as these teams are very evenly matched and I would happily watch a 5 game series between them. Far rather that than the impending ODI's against the Aussies to be honest....
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 20, 2020 23:08:35 GMT
Just watched the two wickets of England fall, and can't help feeling that if England appealed the way that Pakistan, do then there would be mutterings of over enthusiasm from those "within" Come on! The present day England is absolutely notorious for it's aggressive appealing, niggling, sledging, moaning at umpires and generally pushing all the rules to the max. I don't think we have any moral high ground to stand on at all on that score. It is simply the way the modern game is played by everyone. |
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 21, 2020 9:23:54 GMT
Looking at the forecast, I think there is a decent chance of a result in this test.
We're also more than half way through the domestic season. I have some thoughts on the format of the Bob Willis trophy and the domestic game in general. I think the first class game is at a clear crossroad and I cannot see it going back to the pre covid structure. I think now is the time to be radical, but not in the way that the buffoon Colin Graves would advocate. The clear positive this year has been the amount of cricket played during the actual summer. I also don't mind the idea of a final to decide the champion.
The problem with regionalisation is that there are a lot of dead rubbers. Even with two rounds to go, the south east group is basically sewn up, and the central group is between Worcester and Somerset.
I know I am in the minority, but I am not adverse to 3 divisions of 6 in future. The top 2 in division 1 could play off for the Championship, at the league winners ground to preserve some kind of advantage. The bottom 2 in division 1 could playoff against the top 2 in division 2. Same in division 2 / 3. This means a minimum 10 first class games for all counties, with more than half playing 11. You have to try and play at least half the games at the height of summer. The final could be televised. To facilitate this, I would scrap the hundred. You could have a two division set up with a clear monetary advantage given to sides in division 1. Sky and the BBC could show all games from divison 1. If the BBC are worried about the length of the games, ensure games are finished in 3 hours by enforcing over rates. Finals day could be 1st vs 2nd from div 1 and maybe 2nd vs 3rd from division 2 (with the top side going up automatically). Play it over the summer holidays, and keep it to 6 weeks maximum. I also think you should have completely separate rosters, one for Championship / List A cricket and another for T20.
I would play the 50 over competition in April and May. I don't think the white ball is as affected by early season conditions. That leaves all of June and half of July and September for Championship cricket. I'd also like the pink ball to be used for a couple of matches, with the aim of developing it so that it could superseded the red ball and do away with bad light as a result. It's also much easier to see the pink ball as a spectator.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 21, 2020 10:17:58 GMT
Looking at the forecast, I think there is a decent chance of a result in this test. We're also more than half way through the domestic season. I have some thoughts on the format of the Bob Willis trophy and the domestic game in general. I think the first class game is at a clear crossroad and I cannot see it going back to the pre covid structure. I think now is the time to be radical, but not in the way that the buffoon Colin Graves would advocate. The clear positive this year has been the amount of cricket played during the actual summer. I also don't mind the idea of a final to decide the champion. The problem with regionalisation is that there are a lot of dead rubbers. Even with two rounds to go, the south east group is basically sewn up, and the central group is between Worcester and Somerset. I know I am in the minority, but I am not adverse to 3 divisions of 6 in future. The top 2 in division 1 could play off for the Championship, at the league winners ground to preserve some kind of advantage. The bottom 2 in division 1 could playoff against the top 2 in division 2. Same in division 2 / 3. This means a minimum 10 first class games for all counties, with more than half playing 11. You have to try and play at least half the games at the height of summer. The final could be televised. To facilitate this, I would scrap the hundred. You could have a two division set up with a clear monetary advantage given to sides in division 1. Sky and the BBC could show all games from divison 1. If the BBC are worried about the length of the games, ensure games are finished in 3 hours by enforcing over rates. Finals day could be 1st vs 2nd from div 1 and maybe 2nd vs 3rd from division 2 (with the top side going up automatically). Play it over the summer holidays, and keep it to 6 weeks maximum. I also think you should have completely separate rosters, one for Championship / List A cricket and another for T20. I would play the 50 over competition in April and May. I don't think the white ball is as affected by early season conditions. That leaves all of June and half of July and September for Championship cricket. I'd also like the pink ball to be used for a couple of matches, with the aim of developing it so that it could superseded the red ball and do away with bad light as a result. It's also much easier to see the pink ball as a spectator. Something like that would be nice but, let's be honest, it's not going to happen. The issue is clearly that they want to preserve those summer holiday dates for the T20 comps/Hundred. I can't see Championship Cricket returning to high summer unless county cricket divorces itself entirely from the T20 circus and that would obviously be a dangerous risk and potential existential threat.
My own solution is for the players to be less precious about scheduling bubbles of different formats. Even though players moaned like crazy about it, I never saw what the problem was in playing a county season where you mixed up the formats throughout the week. The issue was that was too much cricket being played. Now there is less it should be easier to rationalise the schedule a bit. I still think the idea of Championship games Sunday-Wednesday and then T20 Thursday/Friday/Saturday (on a one game a week basis) was a sensible approach that meant the games were spread out at a time when people knew when they were going to be played and could spread the cost out over the season. You can then have the 50 Over thing at the start (and possibly at the end as well). Fans liked that approach but sadly I feel that ship has sailed as well.
I'm not convinced the ECB cares sufficiently about the County Championship to really consider radically changing it and the selectors (and big counties) like the hierarchical division structure so I'm not as optimistic as you are that this will produce long-term change. What should stimulate some thinking at the ECB is the good numbers they are getting for the streaming because that demonstrates that there is a huge latent market for Championship Cricket coverage on the TV that they are utterly failing to satisfy. Again, I've always thought that a deal like the Snooker does for ITV 4 coverage would be perfect for the Championship. They could show a whole season, guarantee every team is shown at least once and then really focus down in run in. That's the potential saviour for the Championship - bluntly the potential advertising revenue from its older supporter watching games on free to air commerical TV. But they are in love with the Sky monopoly contract at the ECB and Sky has no interest in diluting its international coverage.
The other possibility is that the Championship could run concurrently with the Hundred. That has been mooted a few times and I think that might have legs in the long-run particularly if the Hundred expands and becomes more of a circus for international cricketers because it would impinge less on the Championship's player base. Whether it would be a good idea to permanently consign the Championship to a kind of '2nd order' status is a whole other question. In general though I expect the whole thing to carry on bumbling along in the slightly disatisfactory way it has since at least T20 was first bought in.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 24, 2020 13:17:31 GMT
Can Jimmy get to 600 wickets? There is a small chance that this might be the only chance he gets to do it......He's very unlikely to tour in the winter and who knows what the selectors will be thinking when they come back in May next year.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 24, 2020 14:57:33 GMT
Can Jimmy get to 600 wickets? There is a small chance that this might be the only chance he gets to do it......He's very unlikely to tour in the winter and who knows what the selectors will be thinking when they come back in May next year. As long as he stops relying on his team mates to catch them, then I reckon he's got a decent chance. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 26, 2020 11:22:17 GMT
Loved both your posts re format choices for cricket.
...Yes jack I’ve really liked the format in the BWT and the idea that all counties have a chance. Perhaps I’d think about two conferences instead of the 3 we’ve had. It would then produce enough cricket to enable players to develop. Without enough red ball cricket we will not know the impact of fewer games until it’s too late. With that in mind I d go for the two divisions of 9 and 16 games enough to generate new waves of potential England cricketers. The idea of dead matches in the latter part of the season would still exist but I can’t see any system that stops that totally.
... Again irish I think that the players should become less precious about the format they are playing in. The one day competition early in the season would be fine and I don’t mind a mixed T20 and County Championship which would work ok. The problem remains this 100 Competition which will happen in July/August thus relegating the County Championship to April/May/June and September. That’s going to be a fact of cricketing life I’m afraid so we just get on with in in 2021.
... England have had a good Summer with lots of positives. Sibley, Crawley, Bess, have been all positive with a good club culture around the team. What I haven’t liked is the lack of cricket for several “fringe” players who’ve inevitably gone backwards in their cricket development. Nets and people saying how good it’s been doesn’t overcome the fact that for some of those players they’ve simply played no meaningful cricket. I’ve also not liked part of the culture of the England team, especially the fast bowlers. I’m really glad Anderson got his 600th wicket, it will make for a much easier atmosphere all round and ease some selection problems as well. Broad is a great bowler with a lot still to offer but his childish tantrum after being left out of the first test match was poor. He got away with it because he is such a good bowler and also because in the second test he bowled very well. It’s a good job Archer, and all the others (Wood, Woakes, etc.) haven’t had similar tantrums when rested. As long as everything is ok Broad is a great team player, when it doesn’t, beware.
Archer has bowled well at times and I thought he’s been unlucky on occasions but I’m not convinced Root trusts him and I’m sure that Archer doesn’t feel completely comfortable in the England environment. I suspect, no real proof, that breaking into the bowling club of England where Broad and Anderson hold sway is very, very difficult. They have earned that right to be top dogs but that doesn’t stop it being harder for an outsider like Archer to establish his place.
... Again on England I’m not convinced Root is the answer as captain but there is no one else at the moment. Stokes and Buttler are the only alternatives and I’d prefer Buttler, a better cricketing brain I think. But Stokes did nothing wrong in the first test, except lose it! (Not really his fault, and did nothing wrong. Just captain in the wrong match I think.) Root is too easily swayed by Broad and Anderson over umpire reviews. I’m sure he must have said no to them when they do their usual OTT when appealing but I can’t remember many cases when he refused them. Yet the other bowlers do get refused. We won’t hear about what goes on because the other members will recognise where the power and influence in the team lies and they will not rock the boat.
.... For what it’s worth I do think England test matches can be divided into two sorts. Ashes and non-Ashes. We will do well in non-Ashes cricket and beat most, even India but most ares of our development is aimed at the next Ashes series and all media and efforts seem aimed at that. I’m not saying it’s wrong just that it seems to be the way it is. And if that is the case I’m pretty sure Joe Root is not the captain to do it. I’d love to be proved wrong and for Joe Root to lead a team just like the 10-11 team and give the Aussies a good hammering in their own back yard. But I don’t see it, although I’m sure that’s why they will persevere with Archer. His development is all about the Ashes imo.
...But from the disaster of this COVID crisis they have got something out of it and the England selectors must be pleased with how this summer has panned out.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 26, 2020 22:40:43 GMT
Yes - I find it quite depressing that English cricket can be split into Ashes vs Non-Ashes. I think that's a bit of a problem especially as there's always excellent games against Pakistan, India and South Africa particularly. You are not wrong though - it's been the mindset for a while.
There's something interesting in there about the whole Broad-Anderson dynamic and whether it squeezes others out. Archer seems like someone who would thrive fron being seen as the main guy and I think he has looked a little bit lost this summer and a bit lacking in a role. I still don't think England have really figured out how best to use him in red ball cricket. Maybe it will take an away Ashes series for him truly to come of age as a Test bowler (hopefully). There's been some interesting criticism in some quarters that England retreated back into their Broad-Anderson comfort zone which may not be the best approach in the longer term. I can see that. Anderson has certainly laid down the gauntlet on that front by saying he could take 700 wickets (when some thought he might retire).
Fringe players have definitely missed out but I'm not sure how else it could have been done in fairness.
Slightly dissapointed that we now move to these somewhat meaningless T20s. Would far rather there was another Test Match. ODI's v Australia look a little bit more interesting though.
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