Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 11:34:10 GMT
You are on dangerous ground there. You are talking about interfering in a contract that 2 parties are mutually agreeing to enter into. Not good. Market forces decide these things, not someone imposing their opinion. No, I don't have a solution to Alexis Sanchez' contract at Utd being worth ITRO half a million quid a week. It sounds like it's too much. No argument to that in principle. But it's a complicated question. 1. I guess new contracts could look very different moving forward. Maybe even some EFL type 'template' contract of employment could be used? 2. Rugby have a salary cap on a per / Club basis. That works well. Until you get caught cheating Football has FFP and SCMP, it doesn't work though, does it. Maybe the difference is, Citeh laugh at FFP, Saracens are probably struggling to see the funny side of things.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 26, 2020 12:45:42 GMT
1. I guess new contracts could look very different moving forward. Maybe even some EFL type 'template' contract of employment could be used? 2. Rugby have a salary cap on a per / Club basis. That works well. Until you get caught cheating Football has FFP and SCMP, it doesn't work though, does it. Maybe the difference is, Citeh laugh at FFP, Saracens are probably struggling to see the funny side of things. Was going to say, at least Rugby do punish and not just a token slap on the wrist
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 12:51:04 GMT
Football has FFP and SCMP, it doesn't work though, does it. Maybe the difference is, Citeh laugh at FFP, Saracens are probably struggling to see the funny side of things. Was going to say, at least Rugby do punish and not just a token slap on the wrist selective though, spurs got caught on the same charges as swindon but TEN TIMES AS MUCH , swindon relegated spurs fined
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 12:54:07 GMT
Are you mad! Clubs won't make a profit as they'll seek to put out the best possible team they can afford to give them the best opportunity of winning. Quite mad, yes. The new financial structure would indeed allow clubs to be profitable, but clubs would indeed choose to overspend on chasing success. Bambi's right about something there, for once.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 12:54:55 GMT
Was going to say, at least Rugby do punish and not just a token slap on the wrist selective though, spurs got caught on the same charges as swindon but TEN TIMES AS MUCH , swindon relegated spurs fined Bournemouth are your best example here. Blatantly disregarded the rules to get into PL, given a fine that was a tiny % of the money they were handed for getting there. I would have given them the Boston treatment and sent them off to play in a park somewhere. Yes, OK, I know their ground is in a park...
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 26, 2020 12:57:17 GMT
Was going to say, at least Rugby do punish and not just a token slap on the wrist selective though, spurs got caught on the same charges as swindon but TEN TIMES AS MUCH , swindon relegated spurs fined Yes, I have noticed a fair few discrepancies
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 26, 2020 13:02:32 GMT
Once we go back to football as a spectator sport, and I just can’t see it being this year, as that there has to be a genuine salary cap at all levels. The largesse of owners ploughing funds into what is in any other business an unsustainable model has to stop. The complete charlatan Gordon Taylor and the PFA will throw their toys out of the pram, but the days of third tier players on thousands a week playing for the likes Fleetwood or Peterborough with their pitiful support are surely over. You are on dangerous ground there. You are talking about interfering in a contract that 2 parties are mutually agreeing to enter into. Not good. Market forces decide these things, not someone imposing their opinion. No, I don't have a solution to Alexis Sanchez' contract at Utd being worth ITRO half a million quid a week. It sounds like it's too much. No argument to that in principle. But it's a complicated question. As has been said, it’s probably not the rules that are at fault, they already exist it’s the absence of any effective governance of them. The EFL have been abysmal at providing any guidance or governance for clubs and I’m not sure this current situation will make them any better. Clubs get round rules. They need to be properly policed if you want them to be effective. Football of all entertainment businesses is governed by market forces and owners will find a way around any rules and I think this will remain the case. If changes come they will be driven by the necessity of the market and probably not by the EFL. UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 13:22:34 GMT
You are on dangerous ground there. You are talking about interfering in a contract that 2 parties are mutually agreeing to enter into. Not good. Market forces decide these things, not someone imposing their opinion. No, I don't have a solution to Alexis Sanchez' contract at Utd being worth ITRO half a million quid a week. It sounds like it's too much. No argument to that in principle. But it's a complicated question. As has been said, it’s probably not the rules that are at fault, they already exist it’s the absence of any effective governance of them. The EFL have been abysmal at providing any guidance or governance for clubs and I’m not sure this current situation will make them any better. Clubs get round rules. They need to be properly policed if you want them to be effective. Football of all entertainment businesses is governed by market forces and owners will find a way around any rules and I think this will remain the case. If changes come they will be driven by the necessity of the market and probably not by the EFL. UTG! All well reasoned, but it just kinda feels a bit out of balance when Lewis Hamilton's basic contract is worth ITRO £800,000 a week, then he's off earning loads more elsewhere. Obviously the money is there in the sport, but to give him a MBE when he doesn't pay tax here? Not on my watch they wouldn't have. Ref Sanchez, that's an interesting one because Utd turn a profit, so again, the money was there to pay the bloke, and he gives a big % of his money to community projects back home in Chile, so as said earlier, these are complicated questions. But as a starting point, if you have rules and a club, say for example Bournemouth, stick their middle finger in the air at you as they ignore those rules, just expel them from the entire League structure. You'll only ever have to do that to 1 club.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 26, 2020 15:09:31 GMT
As has been said, it’s probably not the rules that are at fault, they already exist it’s the absence of any effective governance of them. The EFL have been abysmal at providing any guidance or governance for clubs and I’m not sure this current situation will make them any better. Clubs get round rules. They need to be properly policed if you want them to be effective. Football of all entertainment businesses is governed by market forces and owners will find a way around any rules and I think this will remain the case. If changes come they will be driven by the necessity of the market and probably not by the EFL. UTG! All well reasoned, but it just kinda feels a bit out of balance when Lewis Hamilton's basic contract is worth ITRO £800,000 a week, then he's off earning loads more elsewhere. Obviously the money is there in the sport, but to give him a MBE when he doesn't pay tax here? Not on my watch they wouldn't have. Ref Sanchez, that's an interesting one because Utd turn a profit, so again, the money was there to pay the bloke, and he gives a big % of his money to community projects back home in Chile, so as said earlier, these are complicated questions. But as a starting point, if you have rules and a club, say for example Bournemouth, stick their middle finger in the air at you as they ignore those rules, just expel them from the entire League structure. You'll only ever have to do that to 1 club. You could lay all of your money that they would never expel United. I was under the impression the Glaziers run the club by paying off interest but then, I have no idea about other clubs true worth. I think expelling Bournemouth would be the cowards way out. It would need to be a real giant and that would be enough to stop the rot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 15:25:45 GMT
All well reasoned, but it just kinda feels a bit out of balance when Lewis Hamilton's basic contract is worth ITRO £800,000 a week, then he's off earning loads more elsewhere. Obviously the money is there in the sport, but to give him a MBE when he doesn't pay tax here? Not on my watch they wouldn't have. Ref Sanchez, that's an interesting one because Utd turn a profit, so again, the money was there to pay the bloke, and he gives a big % of his money to community projects back home in Chile, so as said earlier, these are complicated questions. But as a starting point, if you have rules and a club, say for example Bournemouth, stick their middle finger in the air at you as they ignore those rules, just expel them from the entire League structure. You'll only ever have to do that to 1 club. You could lay all of your money that they would never expel United. I was under the impression the Glaziers run the club by paying off interest but then, I have no idea about other clubs true worth. I think expelling Bournemouth would be the cowards way out. It would need to be a real giant and that would be enough to stop the rot. Bournemouth aren't the worst offender, I just say them to tease Wareham and because their offence is so black & white, it was blatant, both times. They didn't even try to disguise what they did, so from that perspective it's a good one to use as an example. But if I understand you correctly then yes, I agree, Citeh should be long gone as well, and Chelsea, and Spurs. Having said that, Chelsea were nothing until the Russian arrived with his financial doping, just another London club, like West Ham, so expelling them when he first started his cheating probably wouldn't have meant as much as chucking them out of the League today, same for Citeh. Expelling Spurs from UK professional football would get people's attention and would draw a line under the cheating.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 26, 2020 16:14:35 GMT
As has been said, it’s probably not the rules that are at fault, they already exist it’s the absence of any effective governance of them. The EFL have been abysmal at providing any guidance or governance for clubs and I’m not sure this current situation will make them any better. Clubs get round rules. They need to be properly policed if you want them to be effective. Football of all entertainment businesses is governed by market forces and owners will find a way around any rules and I think this will remain the case. If changes come they will be driven by the necessity of the market and probably not by the EFL. UTG! All well reasoned, but it just kinda feels a bit out of balance when Lewis Hamilton's basic contract is worth ITRO £800,000 a week, then he's off earning loads more elsewhere. Obviously the money is there in the sport, but to give him a MBE when he doesn't pay tax here? Not on my watch they wouldn't have. Ref Sanchez, that's an interesting one because Utd turn a profit, so again, the money was there to pay the bloke, and he gives a big % of his money to community projects back home in Chile, so as said earlier, these are complicated questions. But as a starting point, if you have rules and a club, say for example Bournemouth, stick their middle finger in the air at you as they ignore those rules, just expel them from the entire League structure. You'll only ever have to do that to 1 club. I’ve no idea what that has to do with what I said. Formula 1 ? Sanchez ? and your obsession with Bournemouth. But at least you’ve admitted what you try to do so we all know. 😉 You stay safe now. UTG!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 16:19:25 GMT
All well reasoned, but it just kinda feels a bit out of balance when Lewis Hamilton's basic contract is worth ITRO £800,000 a week, then he's off earning loads more elsewhere. Obviously the money is there in the sport, but to give him a MBE when he doesn't pay tax here? Not on my watch they wouldn't have. Ref Sanchez, that's an interesting one because Utd turn a profit, so again, the money was there to pay the bloke, and he gives a big % of his money to community projects back home in Chile, so as said earlier, these are complicated questions. But as a starting point, if you have rules and a club, say for example Bournemouth, stick their middle finger in the air at you as they ignore those rules, just expel them from the entire League structure. You'll only ever have to do that to 1 club. I’ve no idea what that has to do with what I said. Formula 1 ? Sanchez ? and your obsession with Bournemouth. But at least you’ve admitted what you try to do so we all know. 😉 You stay safe now. UTG! Yes, talk about the most blatant and easily identified piece of financial cheating that has happened in PL history is what I do each time I mention Bournemouth, it teases you a bit as well, so it's a win win. Money in sport, the source of that money and the sustainability of that I thought was the topic. Will try to keep things simpler in future so that you can keep up. Sorry about that.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 26, 2020 16:22:40 GMT
You could lay all of your money that they would never expel United. I was under the impression the Glaziers run the club by paying off interest but then, I have no idea about other clubs true worth. I think expelling Bournemouth would be the cowards way out. It would need to be a real giant and that would be enough to stop the rot. Bournemouth aren't the worst offender, I just say them to tease Wareham and because their offence is so black & white, it was blatant, both times. They didn't even try to disguise what they did, so from that perspective it's a good one to use as an example. But if I understand you correctly then yes, I agree, Citeh should be long gone as well, and Chelsea, and Spurs. Having said that, Chelsea were nothing until the Russian arrived with his financial doping, just another London club, like West Ham, so expelling them when he first started his cheating probably wouldn't have meant as much as chucking them out of the League today, same for Citeh. Expelling Spurs from UK professional football would get people's attention and would draw a line under the cheating. I can’t fault that. I kind of had an affinity for Citeh as they were the rovers of Manchester. I really really dislike what they have been able to do
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Apr 27, 2020 9:50:20 GMT
It will be a long time before stadium or terrace football exists again, and the businesses will go bust in the meantime. Fortunately, it will be a huge adjustment for all clubs. Once professional footballers are on massively lower wages, supporters will be able to buy tickets affordably, and the revenue will be enough for the clubs to make a profit. Can you imagine? Perhaps third and fourth division player wages will be similar to our own. Didn't it use to be like that post war up to 60s/70s? Did I hear stories like Rovers players catching the bus to home games?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 9:56:37 GMT
It will be a long time before stadium or terrace football exists again, and the businesses will go bust in the meantime. Fortunately, it will be a huge adjustment for all clubs. Once professional footballers are on massively lower wages, supporters will be able to buy tickets affordably, and the revenue will be enough for the clubs to make a profit. Can you imagine? Perhaps third and fourth division player wages will be similar to our own. Didn't it use to be like that post war up to 60s/70s? Did I hear stories like Rovers players catching the bus to home games? Harold had a Triumph Herald
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 10:07:13 GMT
Didn't it use to be like that post war up to 60s/70s? Did I hear stories like Rovers players catching the bus to home games? Harold had a Triumph Herald Matt Harold was swanning around in a new Audi Q7, and if we didn't give it to him some other L2 club would have. Times change.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 27, 2020 10:12:55 GMT
It will be a long time before stadium or terrace football exists again, and the businesses will go bust in the meantime. Fortunately, it will be a huge adjustment for all clubs. Once professional footballers are on massively lower wages, supporters will be able to buy tickets affordably, and the revenue will be enough for the clubs to make a profit. Can you imagine? Perhaps third and fourth division player wages will be similar to our own. Didn't it use to be like that post war up to 60s/70s? Did I hear stories like Rovers players catching the bus to home games? I heard those same stories from the wonderful Bobby Jones (RIP) It seemed we always had one or two players in the area but Bobby was very close by, just about 200 metres & he’d train us & referee our games. I’ve yet to meet anyine fitter. He would sprint the hills in southey playing fields, to exhaustion but it took lots to see him get to that point. He still ran ( shuffled) after ending his managerial time with Bath city. He was a warrior but was afflicted with the worst case of depression I have ever known. I can say this, now he has passed on but I’d sometimes give him a couple of diazepam as his GP would not allow him them but he never came asking and was not addicted. He told me he just felt better, knowing he had them there I lived in one of Stuart Taylor’s houses and did some training with him, when he was manager of Cadbury heath. He’d always tease me as I was weight training in those days. I was so done in by the running that I’d vomit yet super Stu would run at least 15 miles each and every way. I really found it very hard to take when I found out about the dementia but his new wife didn’t want anyone who knew his wife, Gwen, anywhere close. It’s a shame but I guess she had goid reason as good old Gwen was a Scottish nutcase, who would drink a bottle of Smirnoff before a shift in their pub, the ring o bells. She got my girl working there too. It’s signalled the start of the end. Both players so extremely fit and, even by today’s standards, would fly any fitness tests. RIP Bobby and Stuart. True gentlemen & who set a great example to us kids. You know, sometimes such memories can raise tears in me. I’m wiping my eyes as I type. I can only dream of being talked about at all let alone so well. They were both huge figures in my life and I miss them, very much
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 27, 2020 10:21:34 GMT
Harold had a Triumph Herald Matt Harold was swanning around in a new Audi Q7, and if we didn't give it to him some other L2 club would have. Times change. And they are about to again. Next thing you'll see Matt Harrold in (with his dodgy knees) is a mobility scooter.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 27, 2020 10:22:47 GMT
Harold had a Triumph Herald Matt Harold was swanning around in a new Audi Q7, and if we didn't give it to him some other L2 club would have. Times change. I don’t begrudge anyone about possessions. I saved for over 20 years, to be able to buy a 911 Porsche. I know I was called a drug dealer, amongst other things. People, most anyway, just automatically think you are loaded. I loved all 3 of my Porsche’s but I had a huge amount of jealousy & I got lots of people question me on how I afforded them. I was always made to save, by mama. I lucked out in my first was a collectors car, the Millenium edition. I made 12K on that one, which allowed me to buy a turbo. I now look back and, with hindsight, was silly as they caused me a lot of unnecessary nastiness. A Q7 isn’t a big deal. I did sometimes get a bit p155y when I’d see Higgs turn up in various high end cars but was borrowing from high interest MSP. I never could rationalise his ways and would have thought he’d have done well to be driven in. It’s only stuff. It only brings transient joy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 10:38:58 GMT
Matt Harold was swanning around in a new Audi Q7, and if we didn't give it to him some other L2 club would have. Times change. I don’t begrudge anyone about possessions. I saved for over 20 years, to be able to buy a 911 Porsche. I know I was called a drug dealer, amongst other things. People, most anyway, just automatically think you are loaded. I loved all 3 of my Porsche’s but I had a huge amount of jealousy & I got lots of people question me on how I afforded them. I was always made to save, by mama. I lucked out in my first was a collectors car, the Millenium edition. I made 12K on that one, which allowed me to buy a turbo. I now look back and, with hindsight, was silly as they caused me a lot of unnecessary nastiness. A Q7 isn’t a big deal. I did sometimes get a bit p155y when I’d see Higgs turn up in various high end cars but was borrowing from high interest MSP. I never could rationalise his ways and would have thought he’d have done well to be driven in. It’s only stuff. It only brings transient joy Higgs had a nice Bentley, but I never looked at the spec of the thing, it could have been £60k, could have been £260k, either way, I'm not fussed, it's his money to do with as he pleases. The comment about Matty Harold was just to highlight that things changed from when Harold Jarman cycled to away games with a string of onions over his handlebars to when, if you want a player to sign, part of the deal is the car and somewhere nice to live whilst they arrange their own property in the area. It wasn't a criticism of the player at all, what was he supposed to do, look for a club offering a sleeping bag in a subway and a Hillman Imp with 2 weeks MOT left on it? BTW, I can't remember, but think that when Matty was with us the players all had BMWs, not Audis anyway.
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