South Africa Test Series

So, who did I meet at Springbok Pub outside the stadium? Met 4 gasheads, I was a bit pi$$ed. But what a test match.

Good to read your comments jack and irish. Can’t disagree with what you’ve said. Haven’t watched the whole series but have caught sessions and am sat watching this mornings play. With all the changes that have been made with the coaching team I’m happy that Giles and Silverwood were the best picks at the time and I happy to let them get on with it. I think this team, even now, is beginning to reflect what they both want. Silverwood will probably know more county cricket than Bayliss ever did and this team reflects that. Crawley, Sibley, Denley and even Bess and Leach are all players who’ve done it on the county circuit which they have recognised.

Despite not turning the 30/40s into bigger scores our batting does look as if it’s building into a fairly strong unit. Given that SA are as weak as I’ve seen for some time that might not be difficult to show but you only ever play what’s in front of you and we seem to be doing that well. Burns, Sibley, Crawley are doing ok for players at the start of their test careers. In the past we’d have introduced a new opener alongside Cook or Strauss or Trescothick and they would have bedded in. Having never replaced Strauss as an opener we were always trying to find a partner for Cook so once Cook went we were searching for two. We might have found them. It’s difficult to say against a weak SA side but to be fair their opening bowlers esp Rabada are their strength and our openers have done well. We persevere with them.

It’s the bowling which I think is our problem. Anderson if you can keep him fit is still our best bowler but at his age he will now keep getting the strains and pulls, it’s inevitable. Stuart Broad is a titan imo, and very underestimated. Usually the minor partner to Anderson but he’s more reliable fitness wise and has done well. We have a few others Woakes, Wood, Overton, Stone, but I’m not sure any will have the quality to get the new ball. Woakes is a good all rounder but more so in white ball cricket. Archer has suffered from playing so much cricket over the past 7 months when his body wasn’t really used to it. Bowling 24 balls for Hobart is very different from bowling 20 overs on a flat test track. But, used well he will get better and he should be in our team when fit. It’s the spinner that’s quite open. Obviously I like Leach and think he should be our number one because he is the best spinner. Bess bowled well in the second test but was never going to get 4 or 5 wickets. But I was surprised at how well he bowled and his economy was good, better than normal. JL does suffer with his health and I wonder if that will make him an unreliable tourist esp in some countries. Both Crane and Parkinson seem to be better white ball players although Parkinson is a really good player who with more cricket will get better. A fit, healthy and enthusiastic Moeen would walk back into the team if he chooses to. I wonder if his recent interview about feeling he gets blamed unfairly for failures might become less of a concern with Giles and Silverwood in charge. If those two can get him back firing then he would strengthen the team.

The cycle of England test cricket now seems to be more about winning the Ashes rather than regaining the number 1 position in test cricket and as such we now have a couple of years to play teams who we will likely do well against. This series and the NZ one were both ideal chances to get certain positions in the team established. Ollie Pope seems to be the real thing as a young player who can really grasp the number 6 position in the team. Watching him this morning he looks very good and seems to have a very good temperament. Buttler, I’m sure we will be saying the same things about him in the next three years. I would prefer Bairstow in the test team but I could also make a case for Foakes as he has rarely let England down. Pope, Sibley, look to have had good series and that in itself must be good for English cricket. Pope is a strange one, I’m not sure that he would get his place in either Surrey or England if they both picked their strongest teams but he always does well, rarely lets anyone down and appears to be one of those players who grasps the opportunity when given.

England should get nearly up to 500 at least which will give them a good chance in this test although the pitch seems lifeless and even though SA are weak batting they could easily bat out and get a draw. It could be an opportunity for Dom Bess to prove me wrong and bowl well and get a 5 for.

It’s a good point you make about Dom Bess jack. Perhaps in September but I can’t see him playing too much for Somerset if Jack L is available yet he has enormous potential and is still very young and he needs what JL got, 5/6 seasons of county cricket, learning his craft. Somerset have finally been fined for producing spin wickets so they may be very wary of producing pitches that warrant two England spinners bowling. Last year he spent time at Yorkshire, it may well be repeated this year.
And your correct about Curran, I should have mentioned him. He is a good partnership breaker and when he bowls or bats things happen. I’m sure he will become the 3rd or 4th bowler in the team eventually. Probably not quick enough to open but in the right conditions he will get his 3/4 wickets and bat well at 7/8/9 and get his 30s and 40s.

Yes, agree. When I said Bess may repeat going out on loan. I didn’t necessarily mean Yorkshire for the reason you said, I just think he may go out somewhere else. Glad for him that he got those two wickets today, it will give him a huge boost in confidence. Dom is a bouncy, enthusiastic guy who does best when he’s feeling good, that will do him a power of good as well as England.
As to Philander, yes I think it’s a good move. We’ve watched other counties like Hampshire with Abbott sign very good Kolpak players and we haven’t gone down that route over the last 5 years. We’ve had very good overseas players but they’ve only been there for a few matches or a few months. I think it’s quite a departure from the norm. As to it being a paceman I’m not surprised. We lost Tim Groenewald to Kent and van Meekeren has left. Jamie O, Jack Brooks, Jack Daley all suffered injuries and with Craig O perhaps being called up by England even as cover it could leave us a bit short pace wise. So it is a good signing but he needs to remain fit! Yes we are short of a batsman but Matthew Wade for April and May and Babar Azam when Wade goes until July will be good. And it has the potential to be very good. I’m pretty sure we’ll sign someone up for August and September to cover that part but that will depend on availability I guess.

and another one another 50 miles up the M5 as well! He'd get in to every other county side other than Essex wouldn't he? I reckon he'll have his pick if he moves on when his contract expires at the end of the season. I think Yorkshire will be back in for him when his contract expires. Is Bess a good enough batsmen to play at 6 or 7? I remember a game at New Road a few years ago. Bess had just finished his spell in the England side and Leach was coming back from injury. Somerset picked Leach and left Bess out. I think Peter Trego played as a batsman and I remember thinking that off the back of a couple of 50s for England, they could have gone with Bess at 7 and left Trego out. I think it really knocked Bess's confidence too. He was certainly very frustrated on the outfield during the lunch break.

I heard Swann say that he felt he really learnt how to bowl when he moved away from the turning tracks they used to produce at Wantage Road. I guess you have to put more revs on the ball and learn some more variations if you are playing on flatter, or even greener wickets.

Well that was a terrific win. Really good to see us bat long and make a huge first innings score for the first time in eons. To score 500 without Root (or Cook) contributing is really pleasing.

Can they start to put that kind of score on the board regularly? The top 4 will all need to start converting 50s into big hundreds but there are certainly signs of encouragement on that front and I think the young players they have bought into the side all seem to be learning and improving quickly.

Just a quick word on Root's captaincy in this test. I thought the decision to bowl himself first up this morning was a poor one. I know he out - bowled Bess yesterday, but I think he had an opportunity to give Bess a real confidence boost this morning by bowling him first up. Instead Root bowled first, and bowled at the best end. If I was Bess now I would be worrying that England may consider leaving him out in the next test and playing an extra seamer. With young players, you have to make them feel valued and see the longer term picture, especially this morning when the test was all but won.

This tactic of asking Wood to bang the ball in short is so frustrating. I don't mind trying that for 3 overs if you have two well set batsmen but we seem to go to it so early. Wood said himself that it takes a lot out of a bowler. He also bowled 7 overs on the spin yesterday which is madness. He should be asked to bowl 3 or 4 over spells as fast as he can with only the odd short one.

I think this is where my point regarding Silverwood comes in. Root is not a good captain but we have no other options so someone needs to work with him to improve that facet of his game. Is anyone talking to him at the end of a match and helping him to realise that some of his decisions are poor? Was Silverwood part of the discussion this morning when they decided who would bowl first up? If he wasn't then he should have been, and if he was then I would question his tactical acumen.

I know it might seem churlish to be critical after a magnificent win, but I want the best for the England team and whilst some areas have shown signs of improvement, I think this side has the talent to be even better with the right support and management.

Have been away so I’ve just caught up with this thread.
I’m sat watching England just get Philander and de Kock out so they’re going to win the series 3-1. A great result for a young team. Jack you were right about Bess being left out for an extra paceman but the result will have proved the decision right albeit unlucky for Bess. But overall England will be pleased with the progress the team has made this winter. Although not at their best in NZ the team can point to having some real success, Crawley, Sibley and Burns have shown they need to be given some time trying to hold down a place in the side over next summer. Bess has shown he can bowl well, take wickets and hold an end down economy wise. I know it’s not the best SA team but all aspects of the team have done well. Keeping Wood fit will be important but he does give the team something and with Curran, Broad, Stokes and Woakes and Anderson to come back they have a good range of fast bowlers than can be rotated to help fitness and avoid burn out. Root has achieved an important series win and you give credit where it’s due.
But I hope you are right jack about Silverwood helping Root and pointing out his mistakes. Against most other teams Root has been found out regarding his captaincy but he’s done well or got away with mistakes against this below par SA team. But if Silverwood can make him a better captain then that in itself will be a good result I still think that Root doesn’t see Bess as the answer to England’s spinning vacancy and that was why he was happy to bowl himself. I don’t think considering how it might appear to Bess would have been too high on his register. He knows he probably won’t captain Bess again for a time esp if others are fit for Sri Lanka.

Of course it must be frustrating for Bess, for all the reasons you’ve said irish. I think his best chance is if Jack Leach is fit and is the preferred England choice in this summers test matches. That way Bess will get a solid season of county cricket with Somerset where he will get better and in an atmosphere where if he has a bad day he’ll not be looking over his shoulder. And with spin bowlers (or any bowler for that matter) they do need overs to learn their craft, to bowl on different surfaces. Leach has had that but I don’t think Bess, or Mason Crane for that matter have had that experience. I don’t know about Matt P at Lancashire but I would guess that Bess has bowled fewer overs over the last two seasons than most of those spinners. (Except for Crane who has been injured for much of that time)