irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 9, 2014 13:02:01 GMT
That's something I didn't know,then I guess it is possible then,just wonder if it's only big news where we are,we have not had the best relationship with FIFA recently,are we being bitter........ That is my only concern - that it appears to be a huge story in this country and nowhere else.
That said, Qatar is a completely unsuitable and unworkable as a venue to hold a World Cup and so it will have to be changed, if not now then further along the line. It won't happen.
I think most of the rest of the World woke up to the reality that major sports tournaments were ultimately about making money for corporations and corrupt vested interests a very long time ago and are therefore not in the least bit surprised about this and have probably accepted it as the trade off for being able to run events on this scale. In Britain we remain clinging to the naive idea that sport and politics shouldn't mix (with a nice dose of Johnny Foreigner thrown in for good measure), that sport is (and should be) a morally pure activity and that we would run it better than anyone else. Even though when we did run every sport going we also did it from the point of view of validating every vested interest going. That's why the rest of the World is not interested in what we have to say on this - one look at the history of sport shows that we are screaming hypocrits for taking this angle; for a century or more we took our balls home whenever something happened we didn't like or weren't in control of and were both corrupt and racist - hence the MCC's horrendous attitude to Indian Cricket has created the current IPL situation which screws us over (they certainly don't owe us anything) and the FA's steadfast refusal to engage with either the World Cup or European Cup for years and years and decades long holding back of African Football has created an understandable resentment to British protestations of fairness. The scale and vested interested has changed but the pattern remains the same and we're not viewed as being in any position to lecture anyone. All Blatter has to do is stand up and talk about 'arrogant England behaving like they still run the World' and he immediately swings 3/4s of the room behind him. |
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Post by PessimistGas on Jun 9, 2014 14:28:43 GMT
I am not naive enough to think that every World Cup or Olympics isn't about making money for corporations and that brown envelopes changing hands isn't part and parcel of the bid and award process for all major events.
The problem here is that the result in Qatar's case was so patently absurd, so obviously ridiculous, for what is so clearly a completely unsuitable venue for a major football tournament, that the only reasonable conclusion is corruption and bribery. This stuff normally goes on behind the scenes, I know, but the stench here is overwhelming.
Regardless of any moral issues around corruption or bribery, the World Cup will not be played in Qatar in 2022 because it would be an absolute disaster and it is unworkable on so many levels, whether that decision is made this year or in 5 years. (there is plenty of time, normally the WC in2022 would not be awarded for another 2 years, lumping the bidding for 2018 and 2022 together for no good reason is also absurd and, again, the only reasonable explanation is corruption).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 17:36:26 GMT
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zfc
Bobby Zamora
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Post by zfc on Jun 9, 2014 18:50:44 GMT
The arrogance of Blatter is of no surprise nor is his eagerness to play the worn out race card.
Africa is a corrupt continent where people starve to death while despots and their friends live in luxury.It is no surprise that members of the African FAs are corrupt and readily took money and voted for Qatar as host in 2022 as no thought went into the location and the temperatures where the tourney would take place.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 10, 2014 9:58:43 GMT
I am not naive enough to think that every World Cup or Olympics isn't about making money for corporations and that brown envelopes changing hands isn't part and parcel of the bid and award process for all major events.
The problem here is that the result in Qatar's case was so patently absurd, so obviously ridiculous, for what is so clearly a completely unsuitable venue for a major football tournament, that the only reasonable conclusion is corruption and bribery. This stuff normally goes on behind the scenes, I know, but the stench here is overwhelming.
Regardless of any moral issues around corruption or bribery, the World Cup will not be played in Qatar in 2022 because it would be an absolute disaster and it is unworkable on so many levels, whether that decision is made this year or in 5 years. (there is plenty of time, normally the WC in2022 would not be awarded for another 2 years, lumping the bidding for 2018 and 2022 together for no good reason is also absurd and, again, the only reasonable explanation is corruption).
I agree - it was ridiculous and it may still be the straw that breaks the camels back. It is the ultimate example of greed. But I'm just saying English bleating about this is perceived as bitterness and sour grapes by the rest of the world who see us arrogant, high handed, hypocrits who can't accept that they don't run the game anymore and are in no position to lecture anyone else on ethics and corruption in sport; and they have 100+ years of fairly squalid FA history to back that up with. That's why it won't be listened to. What will be listened to eventually is the corporate money as Jeff said above - that is all they care about. Also given that Australia's bid has recently been exposed to have high levels of corruption, the US bid had Chuck Blazer connected with it (who is one of the dodgiest individuals in FIFA) is there a basic problem here that if you take it off one for corruption you can't then give it to another where corruption is also proven. I think anyone who thinks England weren't up to their necks in this kind of stuff for our 2018 bid is deluding themselves too. We played some funny looking friendlies in the run up to that bid..... |
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
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Post by brizzle on Jun 10, 2014 10:18:33 GMT
Ooops, sorry.
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
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Post by brizzle on Jun 10, 2014 10:19:53 GMT
As you say bladder, when you're in trouble play the race card, that'll do it. From The Telegraph . . . Sepp Blatter unleashed an astonishing tirade against the “racist” British media and what he branded a plot to “destroy” Fifa last night as he confirmed his intention to stand for a controversial fifth term as president.
Blatter lashed out against the critics of football’s world governing body in two defiant speeches, finally breaking his silence over the corruption crisis to engulf the organisation he leads ahead of the World Cup in Brazil.
Fifa has been under mounting pressure over the emergence of new evidence linked to its decision to award the 2022 tournament to Qatar, with sponsors lining up to express their concerns.
But Blatter dismissed the investigations spearheaded by The Telegraph and Sunday Times in an address to the African Football Confederation’s annual congress, in which he railed against the “storm against Fifa relating to the Qatar World Cup”.He added: “Sadly, there’s a great deal of discrimination and racism, and this hurts me.”The 78-year-old’s sentiments were echoed in a remarkable resolution passed by CAF - whose officials have been accused of corruption - denouncing the “deliberately hateful, defamatory and degrading attacks by some media, notably British, on the image and the integrity of the Confederation of African Football” and urging its executive committee to file a lawsuit against those responsible.
Minutes after his first speech, Blatter delivered a similar address at the congress of the Asian Football Confederation, of which Qatar is a member.
Accusing the UK media of creating “Qatargate”, he said: “We’ve seen what the British press has published. I don’t know what the reasoning is behind this but we must maintain unity.” The Swiss then hit out at those seeking to “destroy” Fifa, adding: “They want to destroy, not the game, but they want to destroy the institution, because our institution is strong, and is so strong we are sure they will not destroy it.”
It is not the first time such claims have been made about the British media, which has long been accused of sour grapes over England’s doomed 2018 bid.
Blatter last week called for the press to await the results of the investigation into the 2010 votes and he revealed yesterday this should be made public in “September or October”.
He was speaking after Hyundai became the fifth of Fifa’s six partners’ to express concern over the recent corruption allegations and Budweiser became the latest World Cup sponsor to do the same.
But none of this prevented him receiving a rousing reception from members of both CAF and the AFC after he made it clear he intended to stand for re-election next year.
The man who has ruled Fifa since 1998 and is expected to formally declare his candidacy for re-election at its congress on Wednesday, told the latter confederation: “My mandate finishes in 2015 but I have decided my mission has not ended.
“I still have fire inside me.” The words echoed those he used at the CAF congress and he invited both confederations to confirm whether they supported his re-election bid, triggering a standing ovation each time.
He responded by saying: “I understood you’re saying 'Yes’. I trust you.” Blatter now looks unbeatable in the race for the presidency but his next term could be his last if Fifa imposes term limits on its executive in the next year.
National associations will vote on Wednesday whether they agree with the principle of term limits, which would give the executive committee a mandate to define them more precisely ahead of a final vote at next year’s congress.
The Telegraph has also learnt that Fifa plans to scrap pensions to its former officials found guilty of corruption.
The governing body had been forced to pay off the likes of Jack Warner and Mohamed bin Hammam when they left the organisation in disgrace.
The row over Qatar coincided with growing unrest on the streets of Sao Paulo on Monday when striking metro workers clashed with riot police three days before the World Cup’s opening game. Tear gas was used against those defying a court order to return to work after the industrial action was declared illegal.
Dismissal notices were also sent to staff alleged to have been involved in strike-related disturbances in recent days.
The industrial action has already sparked transport chaos in Sao Paulo, which could escalate if the city calls its first general strike since 1991.
That would paralyse its two airports and other key services on the eve of the World Cup.
The opening game of the tournament between Brazil and Croatia is also expected to be targeted by protesters angry about the billions spent on the tournament at the apparent expense of improving the host nation’s schools and hospitals.I find the defence of FIFA by Blatter to be almost a joke, but it must be taken seriously as he is the president of the organisation. The confirmation that he is planning to run for a fifth term is a bit deflating, but more so for Michel Platini who would also like a bit of the action. But of course when Platini's time does come, as I'm certain it will, England (or the British, if you like) will have another person at the helm with an inbuilt dislike of all things that come from our shores. :england: :UK: |
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Post by Big Dave on Jun 10, 2014 11:49:15 GMT
I am not naive enough to think that every World Cup or Olympics isn't about making money for corporations and that brown envelopes changing hands isn't part and parcel of the bid and award process for all major events.
The problem here is that the result in Qatar's case was so patently absurd, so obviously ridiculous, for what is so clearly a completely unsuitable venue for a major football tournament, that the only reasonable conclusion is corruption and bribery. This stuff normally goes on behind the scenes, I know, but the stench here is overwhelming.
Regardless of any moral issues around corruption or bribery, the World Cup will not be played in Qatar in 2022 because it would be an absolute disaster and it is unworkable on so many levels, whether that decision is made this year or in 5 years. (there is plenty of time, normally the WC in2022 would not be awarded for another 2 years, lumping the bidding for 2018 and 2022 together for no good reason is also absurd and, again, the only reasonable explanation is corruption).
I agree - it was ridiculous and it may still be the straw that breaks the camels back. It is the ultimate example of greed. But I'm just saying English bleating about this is perceived as bitterness and sour grapes by the rest of the world who see us arrogant, high handed, hypocrits who can't accept that they don't run the game anymore and are in no position to lecture anyone else on ethics and corruption in sport; and they have 100+ years of fairly squalid FA history to back that up with. That's why it won't be listened to. What will be listened to eventually is the corporate money as Jeff said above - that is all they care about. Also given that Australia's bid has recently been exposed to have high levels of corruption, the US bid had Chuck Blazer connected with it (who is one of the dodgiest individuals in FIFA) is there a basic problem here that if you take it off one for corruption you can't then give it to another where corruption is also proven. I think anyone who thinks England weren't up to their necks in this kind of stuff for our 2018 bid is deluding themselves too. We played some funny looking friendlies in the run up to that bid.....When Quatari journalists discover payments/bribes from the FA to FIFA Executive committee members I will read their articles with interest. Our 2018 bid was probably screwed by others 'cheating', but we failed miserably so it's no wonder our press has a few leads/stories/issues to pursue... Soon FIFA will reach it's own IOC 'moment'...I just hope it brings about the change that is needed and the corporate/political bigwigs don't get to sweep it all under the carpet... |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 10, 2014 12:41:43 GMT
I agree - it was ridiculous and it may still be the straw that breaks the camels back. It is the ultimate example of greed. But I'm just saying English bleating about this is perceived as bitterness and sour grapes by the rest of the world who see us arrogant, high handed, hypocrits who can't accept that they don't run the game anymore and are in no position to lecture anyone else on ethics and corruption in sport; and they have 100+ years of fairly squalid FA history to back that up with. That's why it won't be listened to. What will be listened to eventually is the corporate money as Jeff said above - that is all they care about. Also given that Australia's bid has recently been exposed to have high levels of corruption, the US bid had Chuck Blazer connected with it (who is one of the dodgiest individuals in FIFA) is there a basic problem here that if you take it off one for corruption you can't then give it to another where corruption is also proven. I think anyone who thinks England weren't up to their necks in this kind of stuff for our 2018 bid is deluding themselves too. We played some funny looking friendlies in the run up to that bid.....When Quatari journalists discover payments/bribes from the FA to FIFA Executive committee members I will read their articles with interest. Our 2018 bid was probably screwed by others 'cheating', but we failed miserably so it's no wonder our press has a few leads/stories/issues to pursue... Soon FIFA will reach it's own IOC 'moment'...I just hope it brings about the change that is needed and the corporate/political bigwigs don't get to sweep it all under the carpet... But do you really believe the IOC is no longer corrupt? Or just that the corruption is less vulgar and obvious than it used to be? That's where the real sweeping under the carpet goes on. It won't bring about change because despite everything FIFA is an extremely sucessful organisation. It makes it's member associations an awful lot of money and has expanded the reach of the game massively in the last 25 years. It is the World's only truly global sport. Blatter may be a total dick but he can point to his record and say 'I've made you all rich, I've made this a truly global game rather than a European and South American carve up and I've put that revenue and development back in to grassroots football the World over' and he'd basically be right. That's why British (and German to an extent) moaning about Blatter gets nowhere - many people who acknowledge that he is as corrupt as it comes also think he's done a good job in other areas and so they overlook the negative side. There's not going to be a return to a FIFA that takes decisions in English interests (as it did for decades) for no other reason than English interests aren't really the same interests as 80% of the countries in World football. That's why we're marginalised - Beckenbauer has said something similar to this before about Germany. There's probably no legs in stories about the English World Cup bid but FA's cosying up to Jack Warner (who makes Blatter look like a saint) was pretty damn unedifying and there were some stories in an around that about the kind of promises that were made. The reality is - you can play the game and enter the cesspit in an attempt to get what you want, you jump and down and try to change things (odds are not good and we are not in a strong position) or you can opt out. None look very attractive. We seem to have gone for option 2, which is fine but a lot of countries will not see us anything other than screaming hypocrits and the chances of being successful are very small. Blatter himself is not the problem - if he goes he'll just be replaced by someone exactly like him who's probably a bit more savvy at pushing stuff under the carpet. The Qatar situation is perhaps a rare opportunity to highlight this nonsense though because it is such an extreme example. |
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Post by Big Dave on Jun 10, 2014 12:58:27 GMT
When Quatari journalists discover payments/bribes from the FA to FIFA Executive committee members I will read their articles with interest. Our 2018 bid was probably screwed by others 'cheating', but we failed miserably so it's no wonder our press has a few leads/stories/issues to pursue... Soon FIFA will reach it's own IOC 'moment'...I just hope it brings about the change that is needed and the corporate/political bigwigs don't get to sweep it all under the carpet... But do you really believe the IOC is no longer corrupt? Or just that the corruption is less vulgar and obvious than it used to be? That's where the real sweeping under the carpet goes on. It won't bring about change because despite everything FIFA is an extremely sucessful organisation. It makes it's member associations an awful lot of money and has expanded the reach of the game massively in the last 25 years. It is the World's only truly global sport. Blatter may be a total dick but he can point to his record and say 'I've made you all rich, I've made this a truly global game rather than a European and South American carve up and I've put that revenue and development back in to grassroots football the World over' and he'd basically be right. That's why British (and German to an extent) moaning about Blatter gets nowhere - many people who acknowledge that he is as corrupt as it comes also think he's done a good job in other areas and so they overlook the negative side. There's not going to be a return to a FIFA that takes decisions in English interests (as it did for decades) for no other reason than English interests aren't really the same interests as 80% of the countries in World football. That's why we're marginalised - Beckenbauer has said something similar to this before about Germany. There's probably no legs in stories about the English World Cup bid but FA's cosying up to Jack Warner (who makes Blatter look like a saint) was pretty damn unedifying and there were some stories in an around that about the kind of promises that were made. The reality is - you can play the game and enter the cesspit in an attempt to get what you want, you jump and down and try to change things (odds are not good and we are not in a strong position) or you can opt out. None look very attractive. We seem to have gone for option 2, which is fine but a lot of countries will not see us anything other than screaming hypocrits and the chances of being successful are very small. Blatter himself is not the problem - if he goes he'll just be replaced by someone exactly like him who's probably a bit more savvy at pushing stuff under the carpet. The Qatar situation is perhaps a rare opportunity to highlight this nonsense though because it is such an extreme example. The biggest problem facing FIFA is that whilst most people agree there is corruption and politics behind most of the major decisions, those decisions are now about to start tipping them over 'the edge'. The World Cups in Italy, USA, France, latterly Germany (and to a certain extent South Korea and Japan) were 'sensible' decisions - hold the tournament in countries that can cope with it. Then we get to South Africa and Brazil - hold the tournament in countries that i) might develop because of it, ii) the sponsors might like and iii) have nice hotels we've never visited before (success during the tournament in SA, failure in the legacy, no idea yet about Brazil...). Russia in 2018 seems to me to be a compromise between the previous extremes (able to host easily vs ability to host easily), and I honestly have no idea why Qatar was picked for 2022 - either the drugs or the bribes were really, really good.... |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 10, 2014 14:04:01 GMT
But do you really believe the IOC is no longer corrupt? Or just that the corruption is less vulgar and obvious than it used to be? That's where the real sweeping under the carpet goes on. It won't bring about change because despite everything FIFA is an extremely sucessful organisation. It makes it's member associations an awful lot of money and has expanded the reach of the game massively in the last 25 years. It is the World's only truly global sport. Blatter may be a total dick but he can point to his record and say 'I've made you all rich, I've made this a truly global game rather than a European and South American carve up and I've put that revenue and development back in to grassroots football the World over' and he'd basically be right. That's why British (and German to an extent) moaning about Blatter gets nowhere - many people who acknowledge that he is as corrupt as it comes also think he's done a good job in other areas and so they overlook the negative side. There's not going to be a return to a FIFA that takes decisions in English interests (as it did for decades) for no other reason than English interests aren't really the same interests as 80% of the countries in World football. That's why we're marginalised - Beckenbauer has said something similar to this before about Germany. There's probably no legs in stories about the English World Cup bid but FA's cosying up to Jack Warner (who makes Blatter look like a saint) was pretty damn unedifying and there were some stories in an around that about the kind of promises that were made. The reality is - you can play the game and enter the cesspit in an attempt to get what you want, you jump and down and try to change things (odds are not good and we are not in a strong position) or you can opt out. None look very attractive. We seem to have gone for option 2, which is fine but a lot of countries will not see us anything other than screaming hypocrits and the chances of being successful are very small. Blatter himself is not the problem - if he goes he'll just be replaced by someone exactly like him who's probably a bit more savvy at pushing stuff under the carpet. The Qatar situation is perhaps a rare opportunity to highlight this nonsense though because it is such an extreme example. The biggest problem facing FIFA is that whilst most people agree there is corruption and politics behind most of the major decisions, those decisions are now about to start tipping them over 'the edge'. The World Cups in Italy, USA, France, latterly Germany (and to a certain extent South Korea and Japan) were 'sensible' decisions - hold the tournament in countries that can cope with it. Then we get to South Africa and Brazil - hold the tournament in countries that i) might develop because of it, ii) the sponsors might like and iii) have nice hotels we've never visited before (success during the tournament in SA, failure in the legacy, no idea yet about Brazil...). Russia in 2018 seems to me to be a compromise between the previous extremes (able to host easily vs ability to host easily), and I honestly have no idea why Qatar was picked for 2022 - either the drugs or the bribes were really, really good.... I think Russia was probably pretty obvious really - same reasons as Brazil. A coming superpower that wants to show off on the World stage. I don't think anyone has a clue on Qatar - I had just assumed that one was going to the US. Will be interesting to see what happens when after this because the continental cycle rule comes to an end. You'd think at some point the old guard in Europe (England, Italy, Spain etc) would dig their heels in over this but it hasn't happened yet. |
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Post by Big Dave on Jun 10, 2014 14:22:12 GMT
I think Russia was probably pretty obvious really - same reasons as Brazil. A coming superpower that wants to show off on the World stage. I don't think anyone has a clue on Qatar - I had just assumed that one was going to the US. Will be interesting to see what happens when after this because the continental cycle rule comes to an end. You'd think at some point the old guard in Europe (England, Italy, Spain etc) would dig their heels in over this but it hasn't happened yet. I disagree - Brazil was the last successful bid by a big nation that was 'due' it. Sadly they seem to have wasted the opportunity. Russia was a political choice and I assume one that FIFA are now nervous about. Picking Qatar was just silly, which means it was probably 'rigged'. The biggest problem is that UEFA, instead of trying to elevate the European Championships have managed to change it for the worse! |
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Post by empirebaypete on Jun 12, 2014 23:03:01 GMT
We want our money back now...... The Abbott government will consider legal action to recoup more than $40 million wasted on Australia's futile bid to host the 2022 football World Cup, won by oil-rich Qatar on the back of alleged systematic bribery. Minister for Sport Peter Dutton said the government would ''consider options'' to claw back the money after reports that Qatari officials showered cash on football officials across the globe to secure the hosting rights in a landslide. Australia pulled just one vote. Australian Football Federation chairman Frank Lowy has demanded FIFA return the money, while former Soccer Australia boss David Hill has said the Rudd government was ''mad'' to risk public funds ''when everybody knew the process was crook". Read more: www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/canberra-looks-to-get-back-40m-from-qatar-bid-20140612-3a0d6.html#ixzz34T87uWGs |
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Post by Geelong Gas on Jun 13, 2014 0:49:12 GMT
We want our money back now...... The Abbott government will consider legal action to recoup more than $40 million wasted on Australia's futile bid to host the 2022 football World Cup, won by oil-rich Qatar on the back of alleged systematic bribery. Minister for Sport Peter Dutton said the government would ''consider options'' to claw back the money after reports that Qatari officials showered cash on football officials across the globe to secure the hosting rights in a landslide. Australia pulled just one vote. Australian Football Federation chairman Frank Lowy has demanded FIFA return the money, while former Soccer Australia boss David Hill has said the Rudd government was ''mad'' to risk public funds ''when everybody knew the process was crook". Read more: www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/canberra-looks-to-get-back-40m-from-qatar-bid-20140612-3a0d6.html#ixzz34T87uWGsAren't Australia just as complicit in all this? It is hardly as though their bid was squeaky clean. |
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Post by PessimistGas on Jun 13, 2014 10:30:15 GMT
We want our money back now...... The Abbott government will consider legal action to recoup more than $40 million wasted on Australia's futile bid to host the 2022 football World Cup, won by oil-rich Qatar on the back of alleged systematic bribery. Minister for Sport Peter Dutton said the government would ''consider options'' to claw back the money after reports that Qatari officials showered cash on football officials across the globe to secure the hosting rights in a landslide. Australia pulled just one vote. Australian Football Federation chairman Frank Lowy has demanded FIFA return the money, while former Soccer Australia boss David Hill has said the Rudd government was ''mad'' to risk public funds ''when everybody knew the process was crook". Read more: www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/canberra-looks-to-get-back-40m-from-qatar-bid-20140612-3a0d6.html#ixzz34T87uWGsAren't Australia just as complicit in all this? It is hardly as though their bid was squeaky clean. I doubt that any bid was squeaky clean. The world cup has never been to Oceania and Australia would do a fabulous job of hosting and would need minimal time to prepare. It was the best bid.
Brazil so far has been a bit of a shambles but Qatar would be a complete and utter disaster and it won't happen.
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