GasMacc1
Les Bradd
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Post by GasMacc1 on Nov 30, 2016 7:27:28 GMT
Bristol Rovers FA Cup Performance 1969-70 to 2015-16: Conclusion
At the start of this mini-series of posts, I asked how we could assess Rovers’ performance in the FA Cup, and how “kind” the draw been to us over the years since 1969-70. Here are the main conclusions. Performance
Rovers have won 49 of the ties, against 47 defeats: a win ratio of 51% Our record against “same-status” teams is good (64%) Higher level opponents usually beat us… …and so do clubs one division below us! | Level Difference | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | Total | | Won | 1 | 2 | 3 | 18 | 6 | 12 | 5 | 2 | 49 | | Lost | 1 | 6 | 16 | 10 | 9 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 47 | | Win Ratio (%) | 50 | 25 | 16 | 64 | 40 | 86 | 63 | 100 | 51 |
Of the 96 ties, only 45 have featured opponents that we haven’t met again in later seasons Since 1969-70, the FA have drawn Rovers to play Ipswich and Southampton four times each Seventeen of the 38 ties in rounds 3 to 6 have been against the same six clubs Home and Away
The draw has favoured Rovers with ties at home 43 times, compared with 53 away ties. Replays
Of our 49 victories since 1969-70, Rovers have needed a replay twelve times We’ve lost replays fourteen times, out of our total of 47 defeats Cup Runs
Rovers’ longest run (6 ties) was the 2008 competition, making a quarter-final against WBA Barnsley put a stop to our run of 5 games in 1999 Other good Cup runs, in 1986, 2002 and 2007 were ended by Luton, Gillingham and Derby. ———————— In the course of writing up this analysis, I’ve come to realise that, whilst the statistics point to our less than consistently glittering performance in the FA Cup over nearly half a century, they don’t tell the whole story. We played away at Leeds - who went on to win the FA Cup- in 1972; and at Derby in 1975, who finished League Champions. We played Ipswich at Eastville in the snow in 1978 and on frost in 1985. We replayed at Liverpool in 1992, in a proud sea of blue and white. Those matches, and many others - from Forest, Villa, West Brom and Birmingham to King’s Lynn, Wisbech, Runcorn, Barrow, Totton and Dorchester- might all have turned out as the clubs’ relative league positions at the time would have predicted, but some were epic, some were goal-fests, and some were adventurous away-days; they were all exciting. And that - as they say, Brian - is what it’s all about.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 30, 2016 17:25:39 GMT
Thanks GasMacc. Good read. I understand why you chose that season to start. I started supporting in 1966 and in the 3 seasons before your series started we got to the 3rd round at least in each season and I thought that getting to that round was the minimum we should do. The 1968/69 season was the best winning at Bolton before losing 1-0 to Everton at Goodson. As you say a bit downhill since!
UTG!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 21:13:37 GMT
Good work GasMacc, interesting stuff,some great memories from the cup games,some not so good.
Worst out of those for me was losing to city 83....best the 1-3 at AG.
I first went in 67 so the replay loss against city in 68 was my first derby game.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Dec 1, 2016 17:57:32 GMT
Interesting - and kind of confirms that we are not really 'a cup team'. League Cup since I've been following us (93/94) has been even worse. I think I only have the 1 real positive memory from that competition; the penalty shoot out win over Everton with Dwayne Plummer the hero! In fact, it used to be a standing joke with a few City supporting mates of mine (also have a dreadful League Cup record) - that most City's thought it was a success if two of their teams were still in the Cup after Christmas, in Bristol we'd have a celebration if our sides could make it to September....
FA Cup is a different story though - I still think it's given me a lot of my best memories as a Gashead. I remember the Twerton Derby against Bath City, the amazing atmosphere at the Orient game in the 98/99 run with people hanging off the trees and portacabin's around the ground to get a look because we were convinced that it would be a big team in the next round (and then we drew Barnsley, ho-hum....). But I remember that as being the first genuinely big occasion we'd had at the Mem after moving back to Bristol. It was a terrible game but the atmosphere sticks in my mind and it was the first time I'd really had any kind of glimpse at our 'potential'. The Ellington game at Derby stands out like diamond in the middle of a sea of manure - if it hadn't happened we'd have had to invent it for the sake of all of our sanity. The run in 2008 was great fun - the win over Saints was good but the best game was surely the 2-2 draw at Craven Cottage when Craig Hinton's goal almost took the roof of the away end. Not much recently I'll admit but even that game against Villa under Shaun North had a bit of atmosphere about it and the pride shown among fans at Birmingham a few years ago was also great to see. I still believe in the magic of the cup - until Sunday when we lose at home to Barrow with a dodgy penalty.....
One pedantic comment - I think you might have misclassified the Orient game from 98/99. I remember us being a League above them that year although I stand to be corrected.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 1, 2016 19:29:14 GMT
I guess that our view of whether we are a cup team or not depends on our early experiences. My early years in the FA Cup were OK, we got to the 3rd round a couple of times and then the 5th. We then had Aldershot twice when they were half decent and lost. But at about that time we had great League Cup runs in early 70s. In those League Cup matches we beat lots of teams, Norwich, Newcastle, Birmingham, Man U from higher leagues. We were giantkillers! Because of that I'm always disappointed because I do think we are a good Cup team but obviously the stats tell me otherwise! I blame it on Hayes, all downhill after that!
UTG!
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GasMacc1
Les Bradd
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Posts: 1,423
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Post by GasMacc1 on Dec 1, 2016 22:05:35 GMT
I guess that our view of whether we are a cup team or not depends on our early experiences. My early years in the FA Cup were OK, we got to the 3rd round a couple of times and then the 5th. We then had Aldershot twice when they were half decent and lost. But at about that time we had great League Cup runs in early 70s. In those League Cup matches we beat lots of teams, Norwich, Newcastle, Birmingham, Man U from higher leagues. We were giantkillers! Because of that I'm always disappointed because I do think we are a good Cup team but obviously the stats tell me otherwise! I blame it on Hayes, all downhill after that! UTG! I agree totally. The 1-1 draw against Manchester Utd in the League Cup game at Eastville drew a crowd of 33,597! I'm sure I didn't imagine it - there were kids sat on benches or on the floor all round the perimeter of the pitch, within a couple of yards of the touchlines! Malcolm MacDonald was part of Newcastle team (also a 1-1 draw) and there were lots of other juicy ties in that era. So for me, we've always been a League Cup team...just because we were when I started watching. If I were to put together a similar analysis [cries of "No! Please don't bother!" from all round the forum] of the League Cup games since the early seventies, though, there wouldn't be too many highlights, I fear! |
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GasMacc1
Les Bradd
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,423
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Post by GasMacc1 on Dec 1, 2016 22:25:13 GMT
Interesting - and kind of confirms that we are not really 'a cup team'. League Cup since I've been following us (93/94) has been even worse. I think I only have the 1 real positive memory from that competition; the penalty shoot out win over Everton with Dwayne Plummer the hero! In fact, it used to be a standing joke with a few City supporting mates of mine (also have a dreadful League Cup record) - that most City's thought it was a success if two of their teams were still in the Cup after Christmas, in Bristol we'd have a celebration if our sides could make it to September.... FA Cup is a different story though - I still think it's given me a lot of my best memories as a Gashead. I remember the Twerton Derby against Bath City, the amazing atmosphere at the Orient game in the 98/99 run with people hanging off the trees and portacabin's around the ground to get a look because we were convinced that it would be a big team in the next round (and then we drew Barnsley, ho-hum....). But I remember that as being the first genuinely big occasion we'd had at the Mem after moving back to Bristol. It was a terrible game but the atmosphere sticks in my mind and it was the first time I'd really had any kind of glimpse at our 'potential'. The Ellington game at Derby stands out like diamond in the middle of sea of manure - if it hadn't happened we'd have had to event it for the sake of all of our sanity. The run in 2008 was great fun - the win over Saints was good but the best game was surely the 2-2 draw at Craven Cottage when Craig Hinton's goal almost took the roof of the away end. Not much recently I'll admit but even that game against Villa under Shaun North had a bit of atmosphere about it and the pride shown among fans at Birmingham a few years ago was also great to see. I still believe in the magic of the cup - until Sunday when we lose at home to Barrow with a dodgy penalty..... One pedantic comment - I think you might have misclassified the Orient game from 98/99. I remember us being a League above them that year although I stand to be corrected. Good memories, irish! And a good spot! I've checked the Orient status in 98/99...and you're right. I think I might have been wrong-footed by the fact that we played them (home and away) in the League Cup that year as well as in the FA Cup, so in compiling my raw data I saw them feature so often in the fixture list, I assumed they were in the same division. A schoolboy error! So - for the record - the correct win ratio against opponents in the same tier is the just slightly less 64%, not 66% as I stated. And the trait of losing against teams one division below us is not quite so embarrassing: the win ratio is 40%, not 36%. Glad you found it interesting. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 1, 2016 23:20:25 GMT
My memories of the FA Cup are based around playing Arsenal, beating Peterborough after being a goal down, drawing at Ashton Gate, beating Kettering after being behind, beating Bolton and losing to Everton. I remember going to Hayes and talking about stopping when we got to 10-0! I don't remember losing at Kettering or Hitchen (I do but I don't think about it on Cup days!). I almost refuse to define Rovers' cup dreams being based on losses. We're a good cup side, we'll win on Saturday and we will have a great cup run this year!!
UTG!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 1, 2016 23:45:26 GMT
ps I mean on Sunday!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 6:16:54 GMT
I guess that our view of whether we are a cup team or not depends on our early experiences. My early years in the FA Cup were OK, we got to the 3rd round a couple of times and then the 5th. We then had Aldershot twice when they were half decent and lost. But at about that time we had great League Cup runs in early 70s. In those League Cup matches we beat lots of teams, Norwich, Newcastle, Birmingham, Man U from higher leagues. We were giantkillers! Because of that I'm always disappointed because I do think we are a good Cup team but obviously the stats tell me otherwise! I blame it on Hayes, all downhill after that! UTG! I agree totally. The 1-1 draw against Manchester Utd in the League Cup game at Eastville drew a crowd of 33,597! I'm sure I didn't imagine it - there were kids sat on benches or on the floor all round the perimeter of the pitch, within a couple of yards of the touchlines! Malcolm MacDonald was part of Newcastle team (also a 1-1 draw) and there were lots of other juicy ties in that era. So for me, we've always been a League Cup team...just because we were when I started watching. If I were to put together a similar analysis [cries of "No! Please don't bother!" from all round the forum] of the League Cup games since the early seventies, though, there wouldn't be too many highlights, I fear! The Stoke game was another big crowd and those League cup games were all evening matches,remember though there was hardly any football on TV then,for most Rovers supporters the only time they got to see a big team was if Rovers drew them in cups. Agree about the League cup,since the early 70s not that many highlights,some good games though. |
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 5, 2016 16:26:43 GMT
My memories of the FA Cup are based around playing Arsenal, beating Peterborough after being a goal down, drawing at Ashton Gate, beating Kettering after being behind, beating Bolton and losing to Everton. I remember going to Hayes and talking about stopping when we got to 10-0! I don't remember losing at Kettering or Hitchen (I do but I don't think about it on Cup days!). I almost refuse to define Rovers' cup dreams being based on losses. We're a good cup side, we'll win on Saturday and we will have a great cup run this year!! UTG! Well, Sunday made me look stupid!! You were right all along Gasmacc! Mind you, based on the last 2 years we are a good-first-home-match-in-December-team with wins against Gateshead and York. Let's hope we can beat another northern based club this season. UTG! |
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fomar
Joined: December 2016
Posts: 2
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Post by fomar on Dec 6, 2016 23:57:37 GMT
Bristol Rovers FA Cup Performance 1969-70 to 2015-16: Conclusion
At the start of this mini-series of posts, I asked how we could assess Rovers’ performance in the FA Cup, and how “kind” the draw been to us over the years since 1969-70. Here are the main conclusions. Performance
Rovers have won 49 of the ties, against 47 defeats: a win ratio of 51% Our record against “same-status” teams is good (64%) Higher level opponents usually beat us… …and so do clubs one division below us! | Level Difference | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | Total | | Won | 1 | 2 | 3 | 18 | 6 | 12 | 5 | 2 | 49 | | Lost | 1 | 8 | 16 | 10 | 9 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 47 | | Win Ratio (%) | 50 | 25 | 16 | 64 | 40 | 86 | 63 | 100 | 51 |
Of the 96 ties, only 45 have featured opponents that we haven’t met again in later seasons Since 1969-70, the FA have drawn Rovers to play Ipswich and Southampton four times each Seventeen of the 38 ties in rounds 3 to 6 have been against the same six clubs Home and Away
The draw has favoured Rovers with ties at home 43 times, compared with 53 away ties. Replays
Of our 49 victories since 1969-70, Rovers have needed a replay twelve times We’ve lost replays fourteen times, out of our total of 47 defeats Cup Runs
Rovers’ longest run (6 ties) was the 2008 competition, making a quarter-final against WBA Barnsley put a stop to our run of 5 games in 1999 Other good Cup runs, in 1986, 2002 and 2007 were ended by Luton, Gillingham and Derby. ———————— In the course of writing up this analysis, I’ve come to realise that, whilst the statistics point to our less than consistently glittering performance in the FA Cup over nearly half a century, they don’t tell the whole story. We played away at Leeds - who went on to win the FA Cup- in 1972; and at Derby in 1975, who finished League Champions. We played Ipswich at Eastville in the snow in 1978 and on frost in 1985. We replayed at Liverpool in 1992, in a proud sea of blue and white. Those matches, and many others - from Forest, Villa, West Brom and Birmingham to King’s Lynn, Wisbech, Runcorn, Barrow, Totton and Dorchester- might all have turned out as the clubs’ relative league positions at the time would have predicted, but some were epic, some were goal-fests, and some were adventurous away-days; they were all exciting. And that - as they say, Brian - is what it’s all about. How were Rovers favoured in the Draw with 43 Home ties against 53 Away?? |
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GasMacc1
Les Bradd
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,423
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Post by GasMacc1 on Dec 7, 2016 12:28:35 GMT
"How were Rovers favoured in the Draw with 43 Home ties against 53 Away??" Accidental irony!  |
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