jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Jul 29, 2016 23:17:19 GMT
Who bowls legspin at them in the nets? I'd pick a bowler in place of Stokes, and I think Ball deserves another crack ahead of Finn, who needs to go away and find some form. Bowling machine or Rashid. They used to bring in club cricketers back along, don't know if they still do. But they will have brought people in to replicate as close as possible Yasir. Agree Ball deserves another chance, not sure that Finn is even best choice for Middlesex at the moment! Think I read that Parkinson the Lancashire leggy was one of the net bowlers. We have a couple of leg spinners who have made promising starts to their professional careers; Mason Crane being the other one at the forefront of my mind. That said we do have a habit of over estimating English wrist spinners probably through sheer desperation. We should have picked Rashid for the last test instead of Vince I think but it's harder to do that now Stokes is injured as I think we need 4 seamers. I reckon we'll make one change. Ball or Finn for Stokes. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 30, 2016 20:36:12 GMT
Yes. You are correct with Stokes out it will be either Ball or Finn though it might have been worth giving Rashid a turn. Mason Crane is an interesting one, he's getting more opportunities with Hampshire now but he always seems to be the expendible one when the team needs an extra batsman. I saw him last season at Taunton when he was bowling at Hildreth and Abel as Somerset made about 400-3. He kept at it but got little support from the team which I thought was unfair for a 16/17 year old. But seems a good prospect. Funnily enough I have just got back from Taunton where I've been watching Danny Briggs bowl for Sussex today in the 50 over competition. Briggs was the big spinning hope for England about 2/3 years ago but opportunities seemed to get less and less at Hants so he moved on. He was overtaken by Moeen not because he was any less a bowler but because Moeen was a better batsman. Bowled well today, no one got after him and batted well. It just seems that any spinner is the one that gets cut from the team or the squad when pressure for runs is on. I would imagine that if England had 4/5 exceptional fast bowlers we might not have room for a spinner in the team and grounds men over the test grounds would be instructed to prepare pitches for fast bowlers. Unless you are exceptional like Warne or Muralitheran or one of the many Indians it is very difficult to establish yourself in the team. Nathan Lyon the Aussie is only just beginning to establish himself after being nearly written off several times and that's 7/8 years after Warne retired.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 19:53:08 GMT
Well Moeen had a fantastic game with the bat and also bowled well in the 2nd innings, so that's probably his place guaranteed for the winter tours, if it wasn't already. I was also pleased Finn got amongst the wickets, he was very unlucky not to end up with a couple in the first innings. All round, a very good Test match and Pakistan will be very disappointed to have been beaten.
39 and 42 gets Vince another chance, but he really needs a good score at The Oval in my opinion, else I'd be looking at his place for Stokes with Ballance and Bairstow moving up a place. Otherwise I think its Finn who misses out when everyone's fit.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 8, 2016 8:11:26 GMT
Good performance overall. The opening stand in our second innings was the crucial part and then Moeen and Bairstow turning it from a looking to save the match to a position of getting us in a position to win it part on Saturday late. Listening to it coming back from Scunthorpe and thought we've got a chance. You are right Vince does need a good large innings but the fact that he seems to get a good start will earn him some time. The coaches have got to get him to be focussed and patient because most of his dismissals are in the same area, caught in slips. What I like about Moeen is his willingness to get hit and still come back and as a number 7/8 he's probably one of the strongest batters in that position worldwide. In a way I think it's similar to Rovers, perhaps there are better spinners but Cook and selectors like what he brings to the team and he's a true team player. Very pleased he got man of the match. Yes, Finn deserves it, taken some stick, including from me, but he was very unlucky with dropped catches and his strike rate is very good. It has been a very good series to follow, close matches, individual brilliance at times and England have a resilience about them which comes from consistency of selection and a very good captain. The Oval might still have a sting in the tail so England will need to concentrate. The questions that were asked of Alistair Cook have been well and truly answered. I don't know how Shane Warne has the brass neck to give him credit after the pounding he gave Cook only two or three years ago. Cook just kept quiet and let his cricket answer for him. Well done him and the selectors for sticking with him.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 9, 2016 8:41:00 GMT
It was a really good test match. I went to day three and without anyone really doing anything especially inspired with the ball we just managed to hang on. For a while I thought Misbah was going to bat us out of the game but once we got him out with a bit of good fortune you always felt we could get through their tail relatively quickly. The Oval will be a good test of where we are. The pitches there don't really suit our team. We must have a terrible record their since Swann retired.
Definitely the best I've seen Moeen bowl in the second innings. I think the work he did with Saqlain has helped because I've thought he's been bowling without enough loop since I saw him at Lords against New Zealand in May last year. Runs in the board will have helped too though as it changes the batsmans mindset.
I think Hales, Vince and Ballance are all showing signs that they are trying to adapt their games but Vince looks vulnerable. I think in the subcontinent this winter Moeen will bat at 4 or 5 and will play instead of Vince or Ballance. I know it didn't work out for him as an opener last time out but he's used to batting in the top 4 for Worcester and he is one of our better players of spin. I think Stokes will come in for Finn and Rashid will bat at 9. 4 seamers and 2 spinners has a nice balance I think.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 9, 2016 12:01:44 GMT
It was a really good test match. I went to day three and without anyone really doing anything especially inspired with the ball we just managed to hang on. For a while I thought Misbah was going to bat us out of the game but once we got him out with a bit of good fortune you always felt we could get through their tail relatively quickly. The Oval will be a good test of where we are. The pitches there don't really suit our team. We must have a terrible record their since Swann retired. Definitely the best I've seen Moeen bowl in the second innings. I think the work he did with Saqlain has helped because I've thought he's been bowling without enough loop since I saw him at Lords against New Zealand in May last year. Runs in the board will have helped too though as it changes the batsmans mindset. I think Hales, Vince and Ballance are all showing signs that they are trying to adapt their games but Vince looks vulnerable. I think in the subcontinent this winter Moeen will bat at 4 or 5 and will play instead of Vince or Ballance. I know it didn't work out for him as an opener last time out but he's used to batting in the top 4 for Worcester and he is one of our better players of spin. I think Stokes will come in for Finn and Rashid will bat at 9. 4 seamers and 2 spinners has a nice balance I think. I would like to see that too. I honestly think that, given the lack of obvious middle order candidates out there, Moeen should be given a run at 5/6 (possibly promote Bairstow to 6). That was originally what he was selected to do and his primary skill has always been as a middle order batsmen. If he could just average 35-40 at 6 then he's worth his place in the team for the next 5 years because of the options he gives us to play 2 spinners, an extra seamer, an extra batsmen etc. Remember that when Moeen gets scores they are nearly always match turning runs because of the speed at which he gets them. If he stays down at 8 and is seen primarily as our number 1 spinner then he probably has a somewhat limited future as a Test player because a better one will come along in the not too distant future. I thought it was a terrific Test Match - 2 out of 3 in this series have been excellent to watch. Truth is, in my lifetime, we've probably matched up more consistantly evenly against Pakistan and South Africa then anybody else. Series against everyone else tend to have been quite one sided one way or the other. I've enjoyed this series more than most of last two home Ashes series. To a degree I think we need to adapt our expectations a little bit regarding our spin attach - we may have been a bit spoiled by Swann. It's not like England has much of a pedigree of developing spinner like that. Ashley Giles did a perfectly adquate job for England and in many ways he was more typical of the classic English spinner than Swann - ie. the defensive bowler who eats up overs and can occasionally be a threat on helpful tracks. It's true that you probably need a World Class spinner to become a truly great Test side (although the great Windies side didn't need one) or you are going to struggle to break down the final frontier of winning consistantly in Asia but England can still be a very good team without one and Moeen is arguably overly criticised. He's OK - he's just never going to be Graeme Swann and he's always going to struggle to hold down an end during the 1st innings of Tests. I think one of our problems is that our leg spinners are generally being developed as T20 specialists. Beer, Waller, Critchley etc. These guys have been developed for their value in white ball cricket. So they bowl quite flat (which to be fair leggy's in England probably have to do anyway) and straight. The system encourages them to develop defensive techniques before they develop their attacking game fully - otherwise they just won't last long enough to earn a county contract. I saw Pakinson take that 5 for on debut for Lancs - it was some impressive stuff and he bagged some big wickets in that 5. But he bowled noticeable attacking lines and drfits on or outside off stump looking for the false drive or the big spin - not enough of our spinners are encouraged to do that and I wonder if Lancs will keep him out of the white ball stuff. Tufnell was making the point that the attacking left arm/leg spinner who aims to tempt the batsmen into false shots outside the off stump (ie bowler like Tufnell) is increasingly doing out of the game as bowlers come straighter in order to prevent batsmen freeing their arms. |
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 9, 2016 12:39:17 GMT
It was a really good test match. I went to day three and without anyone really doing anything especially inspired with the ball we just managed to hang on. For a while I thought Misbah was going to bat us out of the game but once we got him out with a bit of good fortune you always felt we could get through their tail relatively quickly. The Oval will be a good test of where we are. The pitches there don't really suit our team. We must have a terrible record their since Swann retired. Definitely the best I've seen Moeen bowl in the second innings. I think the work he did with Saqlain has helped because I've thought he's been bowling without enough loop since I saw him at Lords against New Zealand in May last year. Runs in the board will have helped too though as it changes the batsmans mindset. I think Hales, Vince and Ballance are all showing signs that they are trying to adapt their games but Vince looks vulnerable. I think in the subcontinent this winter Moeen will bat at 4 or 5 and will play instead of Vince or Ballance. I know it didn't work out for him as an opener last time out but he's used to batting in the top 4 for Worcester and he is one of our better players of spin. I think Stokes will come in for Finn and Rashid will bat at 9. 4 seamers and 2 spinners has a nice balance I think. I would like to see that too. I honestly think that, given the lack of obvious middle order candidates out there, Moeen should be given a run at 5/6 (possibly promote Bairstow to 6). That was originally what he was selected to do and his primary skill has always been as a middle order batsmen. If he could just average 35-40 at 6 then he's worth his place in the team for the next 5 years because of the options he gives us to play 2 spinners, an extra seamer, an extra batsmen etc. Remember that when Moeen gets scores they are nearly always match turning runs because of the speed at which he gets them. If he stays down at 8 and is seen primarily as our number 1 spinner then he probably has a somewhat limited future as a Test player because a better one will come along in the not too distant future. I thought it was a terrific Test Match - 2 out of 3 in this series have been excellent to watch. Truth is, in my lifetime, we've probably matched up more consistantly evenly against Pakistan and South Africa then anybody else. Series against everyone else tend to have been quite one sided one way or the other. I've enjoyed this series more than most of last two home Ashes series. To a degree I think we need to adapt our expectations a little bit regarding our spin attach - we may have been a bit spoiled by Swann. It's not like England has much of a pedigree of developing spinner like that. Ashley Giles did a perfectly adquate job for England and in many ways he was more typical of the classic English spinner than Swann - ie. the defensive bowler who eats up overs and can occasionally be a threat on helpful tracks. It's true that you probably need a World Class spinner to become a truly great Test side (although the great Windies side didn't need one) or you are going to struggle to break down the final frontier of winning consistantly in Asia but England can still be a very good team without one and Moeen is arguably overly criticised. He's OK - he's just never going to be Graeme Swann and he's always going to struggle to hold down an end during the 1st innings of Tests. I think one of our problems is that our leg spinners are generally being developed as T20 specialists. Beer, Waller, Critchley etc. These guys have been developed for their value in white ball cricket. So they bowl quite flat (which to be fair leggy's in England probably have to do anyway) and straight. The system encourages them to develop defensive techniques before they develop their attacking game fully - otherwise they just won't last long enough to earn a county contract. I saw Pakinson take that 5 for on debut for Lancs - it was some impressive stuff and he bagged some big wickets in that 5. But he bowled noticeable attacking lines and drfits on or outside off stump looking for the false drive or the big spin - not enough of our spinners are encouraged to do that and I wonder if Lancs will keep him out of the white ball stuff. Tufnell was making the point that the attacking left arm/leg spinner who aims to tempt the batsmen into false shots outside the off stump (ie bowler like Tufnell) is increasingly doing out of the game as bowlers come straighter in order to prevent batsmen freeing their arms. Lancashire seem to be a bit of an exception in that they produce pitches that are good for spinners and they have one day and four day specialists. Steven Parry is really unlucky not to have played more times for England's ODI side. He's definitely better than Dawson in my eyes. What I like about Moeen's batting is that he scores runs when they matter and he seems to do better at 6 or 7 rather than 8 which suggests a bit of extra responsibility might not be a bad thing. He tends to give it away when he thinks he is running out of partners. Has anyone seen much of Jack Leach bowl in the Championship? I have only seen him in the odd limited over game and he has a tall action and bowls pretty defensively. I know nothing about him as a longer format bowler but based on an average of less than 30, and an economy rate less than 3 and a match winning performance recently I'd definitely be asking some questions and watching him between now and the end of the season if I was a selector. He's also seen off George Dockrell who I always thought was a decent bowler which suggests he must be decent. He's a left armer too isn't he so I wonder if he might end up vying with Zafar Ansari for the third spinners spot this winter. I just hope they go with the best bowler. We don't need to worry about whether he can bat. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 9, 2016 12:56:18 GMT
I would like to see that too. I honestly think that, given the lack of obvious middle order candidates out there, Moeen should be given a run at 5/6 (possibly promote Bairstow to 6). That was originally what he was selected to do and his primary skill has always been as a middle order batsmen. If he could just average 35-40 at 6 then he's worth his place in the team for the next 5 years because of the options he gives us to play 2 spinners, an extra seamer, an extra batsmen etc. Remember that when Moeen gets scores they are nearly always match turning runs because of the speed at which he gets them. If he stays down at 8 and is seen primarily as our number 1 spinner then he probably has a somewhat limited future as a Test player because a better one will come along in the not too distant future. I thought it was a terrific Test Match - 2 out of 3 in this series have been excellent to watch. Truth is, in my lifetime, we've probably matched up more consistantly evenly against Pakistan and South Africa then anybody else. Series against everyone else tend to have been quite one sided one way or the other. I've enjoyed this series more than most of last two home Ashes series. To a degree I think we need to adapt our expectations a little bit regarding our spin attach - we may have been a bit spoiled by Swann. It's not like England has much of a pedigree of developing spinner like that. Ashley Giles did a perfectly adquate job for England and in many ways he was more typical of the classic English spinner than Swann - ie. the defensive bowler who eats up overs and can occasionally be a threat on helpful tracks. It's true that you probably need a World Class spinner to become a truly great Test side (although the great Windies side didn't need one) or you are going to struggle to break down the final frontier of winning consistantly in Asia but England can still be a very good team without one and Moeen is arguably overly criticised. He's OK - he's just never going to be Graeme Swann and he's always going to struggle to hold down an end during the 1st innings of Tests. I think one of our problems is that our leg spinners are generally being developed as T20 specialists. Beer, Waller, Critchley etc. These guys have been developed for their value in white ball cricket. So they bowl quite flat (which to be fair leggy's in England probably have to do anyway) and straight. The system encourages them to develop defensive techniques before they develop their attacking game fully - otherwise they just won't last long enough to earn a county contract. I saw Pakinson take that 5 for on debut for Lancs - it was some impressive stuff and he bagged some big wickets in that 5. But he bowled noticeable attacking lines and drfits on or outside off stump looking for the false drive or the big spin - not enough of our spinners are encouraged to do that and I wonder if Lancs will keep him out of the white ball stuff. Tufnell was making the point that the attacking left arm/leg spinner who aims to tempt the batsmen into false shots outside the off stump (ie bowler like Tufnell) is increasingly doing out of the game as bowlers come straighter in order to prevent batsmen freeing their arms. Lancashire seem to be a bit of an exception in that they produce pitches that are good for spinners and they have one day and four day specialists. Steven Parry is really unlucky not to have played more times for England's ODI side. He's definitely better than Dawson in my eyes. What I like about Moeen's batting is that he scores runs when they matter and he seems to do better at 6 or 7 rather than 8 which suggests a bit of extra responsibility might not be a bad thing. He tends to give it away when he thinks he is running out of partners. Has anyone seen much of Jack Leach bowl in the Championship? I have only seen him in the odd limited over game and he has a tall action and bowls pretty defensively. I know nothing about him as a longer format bowler but based on an average of less than 30, and an economy rate less than 3 and a match winning performance recently I'd definitely be asking some questions and watching him between now and the end of the season if I was a selector. He's also seen off George Dockrell who I always thought was a decent bowler which suggests he must be decent. He's a left armer too isn't he so I wonder if he might end up vying with Zafar Ansari for the third spinners spot this winter. I just hope they go with the best bowler. We don't need to worry about whether he can bat. I think it's definitely true that Lancs develop more spinners. Obviously Old Trafford does have the reputation as the best spinners track in the country and their T20 tactics have been to bowl 3 spinners and keep the boundaries back. It worked brilliantly last year but it was a bit found out this year - sides seemed to have adapted. But there's no doubt that Lancs consistently invest in spinners. There are many that still believe that Lilley will be the next great English spinner despite not having had a good year. I'd also like to know more about Leach - watched him years ago playing WEPL and remain mildly surprised that he has made it still more than he managed to ease out Dockrell (who I'm still surprised didn't find another country - I watched Glamorgan the other day at St Helens, you cannot tell me that he is a worse bowler than either of the 2 Glamorgan spinners on show that day who could hold neither or line and duly got battered on what looked like a pretty helpful pitch). So maybe Wareham can fill us in there. I like Ansari too - nice action and I think he could be the one to stock up an end. Leach hasn't really appeared in any conversations re; England though. Like you suggest maybe that is based on the, frankly bizzare, assumption that spinners should ideally be able to bat. Definitely think that 2nd/3rd spinners spot for India is up for grabs though. 5 match series as well so it will be quite attritional and you may want to switch the spin attack round a bit so opposition batsmen don't get too comfortable - India tend to do that. They'll go with Ashwin as their number 1 obviously but they'll often rotate through 2/3 other options. The thing about Moeen is that he really does seem largely uneffected by pressure and he's also definitely a team man. He is a player of attacking instincts and that will always be his natural game but he's shown a willingness to grind it out when required. I feel like he has earned a chance to have a run in his natural position in the batting order which he's never really had. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 10, 2016 10:43:18 GMT
I think Moeen and Rashid have to be the spinners for England. I saw Dawson bowl in one day cricket last week and he bowled very well, but as you say he is a defensive bowler suited to one day cricket like so many. Danny Briggs comes to mind. Bowled very well for Hants during their 20/20 years of plenty, yet never really did it in the 4-day game and is now bowling for Sussex in division 2. Steve Borthwick being a good batter should be being thought of but he hasn't kicked on and there's talk of him leaving Durham to get some more spin friendlier pitches in southern England, Surrey comes to mind, again!! I have seen Jack Leach develop into a very good spin bowler over the past 3 years. The big difference this year is he has produced some fine performances throughout the season when before he had to wait for the drier grounds in August before producing his best. He is bowling consistently well in the championship. He hasn't played much in our one day team this year and so has not developed too much of a defensive mentality. Although not over defensive he does hold an end up and his economy rate is pretty good. This year he has responded well to Rogers' captaincy and has improved. Under Marcus there was always the arm around the shoulder and support for him. Rogers is a much more uncompromising captain and demands more IMO. He gives support but you get the impression having watched most of the 4-day matches at Taunton and one away match that Rogers expects Leach to produce and I think Leach has responded well to this. Generally Rogers taking over from Marcus is like Brian Close taking over from Brian Langford in 1971, we might not win anything but as a team we are much stronger and players are getting better and are match hard. Interestingly in 20/20 where Rogers doesn't play it's been a shambles! In one day Somerset have used Max Waller and VD Merve much more and the latter can also bat in one day so it gives a better balance. IMO I do not think Leach should even be thought of in the England team at the moment. Moeen and Rashid have earnt their places and are the better players. With Jack Leach being a quieter, more introverted cricketer I believe the test arena and the England team who seem very together as a team would be a step too far for now. Leach needs to develop and the best place to do that is in the Somerset team who play hard cricket under a pretty tough uncompromising captain this year. And more importantly Moeen and Rashid have not let England down or done anything to lose their places in the England teams. As you say Irish, Moeen is a brilliant team player. You only have to see how the others react to him to see his worth in the team. They deserve to be there.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 10, 2016 12:41:31 GMT
I think Moeen and Rashid have to be the spinners for England. I saw Dawson bowl in one day cricket last week and he bowled very well, but as you say he is a defensive bowler suited to one day cricket like so many. Danny Briggs comes to mind. Bowled very well for Hants during their 20/20 years of plenty, yet never really did it in the 4-day game and is now bowling for Sussex in division 2. Steve Borthwick being a good batter should be being thought of but he hasn't kicked on and there's talk of him leaving Durham to get some more spin friendlier pitches in southern England, Surrey comes to mind, again!! I have seen Jack Leach develop into a very good spin bowler over the past 3 years. The big difference this year is he has produced some fine performances throughout the season when before he had to wait for the drier grounds in August before producing his best. He is bowling consistently well in the championship. He hasn't played much in our one day team this year and so has not developed too much of a defensive mentality. Although not over defensive he does hold an end up and his economy rate is pretty good. This year he has responded well to Rogers' captaincy and has improved. Under Marcus there was always the arm around the shoulder and support for him. Rogers is a much more uncompromising captain and demands more IMO. He gives support but you get the impression having watched most of the 4-day matches at Taunton and one away match that Rogers expects Leach to produce and I think Leach has responded well to this. Generally Rogers taking over from Marcus is like Brian Close taking over from Brian Langford in 1971, we might not win anything but as a team we are much stronger and players are getting better and are match hard. Interestingly in 20/20 where Rogers doesn't play it's been a shambles! In one day Somerset have used Max Waller and VD Merve much more and the latter can also bat in one day so it gives a better balance. IMO I do not think Leach should even be thought of in the England team at the moment. Moeen and Rashid have earnt their places and are the better players. With Jack Leach being a quieter, more introverted cricketer I believe the test arena and the England team who seem very together as a team would be a step too far for now. Leach needs to develop and the best place to do that is in the Somerset team who play hard cricket under a pretty tough uncompromising captain this year. And more importantly Moeen and Rashid have not let England down or done anything to lose their places in the England teams. As you say Irish, Moeen is a brilliant team player. You only have to see how the others react to him to see his worth in the team. They deserve to be there. Interesting stuff - and I agree, I feel Moeen and Rashid come under a bit too much scrutiny because they are playing in Swann's shadow. We could spend as long looking for the next Swann as we did looking for the next Botham. English players like that just don't come along very often. We should appreciate what we do have - which is two very versatile and hard working players. With that feedback I would think Ansari may currently occupy pole position for that 3rd spinners seat on the plane to India. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 10, 2016 14:15:51 GMT
Yes they will need 3 spinners in the winter and Ansari would seem the logical choice but it wouldn't surprise me if Dawson was chosen, his white ball cricket may be an important factor.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 12, 2016 14:16:06 GMT
Latest; England 328 all out...Pakistan 180-3.
We have dropped a few chances in the morning session and i feel they will overtake our score to take a 1st inns lead as in the last test.
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 12, 2016 19:32:50 GMT
late run of wickets tonight will give England an edge in the morning, can still see a lead in the region of 100- 150 ,better scoring rate from Pakistan this time, think that was part of their down fall in the last test,plenty of crease time but not fast enough in the runs dep't
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 13, 2016 16:06:20 GMT
Yes they will need 3 spinners in the winter and Ansari would seem the logical choice but it wouldn't surprise me if Dawson was chosen, his white ball cricket may be an important factor. Wouldn't surprise me either but I hope his white ball form doesn't come into the selectors thinking. We're well and truly stuffed in this test I think. Not especially surprised as our record in London is dreadful over the last few years. Didn't think we bowled all that badly but the reoccurring themes are going to cost us again, namely: Moeen taking wickets but going at more than 5 an over. Our slip catching is woeful Our top order. We've discussed the Hales and the middle order to death but Root and Cook are culpable too. Cook has looked in the form of his life in this series and I think it's meant he's ended up getting out to shots he wouldn't normally dream of playing. How many hundreds has he scored in the last couple of years? I don't know the answer but it doesn't feel like he's won us as many games with the bat as you'd expect him to given his record. I think it's getting to the point where we need to have a serious think about whether Bairstows runs are so important to this side that he should drop the keeping. Inevitably, when you're in the field all day your batting suffers to some degree, all the more so as he must be working really hard at his keeping at the moment. If we had a middle order we could afford to sacrifice some of his runs but we aren't in that position. Moeen, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler/Foakes/Billings, Woakes then Rashid batting from 4 to 9 is a real possibility this winter I think. Might need to get Wood back into the side too as we always seem to struggle to take wickets on good pitches. He has the ability to take the pitch out of the equation which might help. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 13, 2016 17:37:18 GMT
In this test we need to set at least 250, then we might have a chance, anything less as a target won't be enough. I always think players should be given the series to prove themselves and being the last match these players have been given a chance. The question marks are over Hayles, Vince and Ballance. I know what you mean about Cook and Root but they are true class batsmen and they are always under pressure to score because once our middle order is exposed to their bowlers we fail. I think Bairstow, Ali and Woakes at 6 7 8 is as good as anyone has and shouldn't be messed with. I wonder if Adam Lyth isn't worth a shot at opener again. I thought he was unlucky last year to have to face the Aussies yet miss out on some of the easier test teams. I would take him on tour. There seems to be a lack of very good batsmen but Ben Stokes will come back in and Mark Wood will be included somewhere. I saw Wood last week at Taunton and he looked fast and bowled very well. On this pitch I'm sure Wood would have been a good bowler. But the problem will be fitting them all in. I think Hayles is most vulnerable and Vince although having a bad last test didn't do too badly at Edgbaston and I would certainly stick with him.
I guess it depends on the strategy of the ECB. They tour this winter in India and next Summer it's West Indies and South Africa and a One Day Competition, the Champions Cup or something and I think this gives us a bit of time to come up with a team that we can take to Australia in winter 17/18. I personally would always pick the best team at any time and not plan too far ahead but I'm not sure the ECB do that and will plan more, which I appreciate they have to do, being the governing body.
Having lost the 4th wicket means we are effectively stuffed!
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 13, 2016 19:40:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 21:58:15 GMT
I'll be surprised if we make it to lunch tomorrow.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 14, 2016 20:56:39 GMT
Totally thrashed by 10 wkts in this final test to level it at 2-2 in yet another 4-day match.
Cannot see how Vince with 1 run from 6 balls over 2 inns can keep his place, Hales a bit sus too.
Lots to sort out after 5 one day int & a twenty20 v Pak, then Bangladesh & India from oct to feb.
I think a few new faces will be brought in to find 1 or 2 gems maybe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 21:05:03 GMT
What a shame its not a five test series. The ECB should would with the PCB to get a fifth test organised!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 15, 2016 10:20:03 GMT
Agree. 5 tests would have been good. Each of the tests has been very good and at some stage in the matches all results looked possible. And it's quite unusual that we have come to mid August and all the tests are completed. It looks like only Australia are given 5 tests now and all the others get 3 or 4. I think the ECB must be quite worried about attendances and finances because not to have a test in the last part of August is unusual. I can't believe Pakistan would have had too many objections because unlike India they are cash strapped like the West Indies and would be happy, I would have thought, to have another test match. Oh well, now we have to worship at the altar of one-day cricket for the next 5/6 weeks!
ps At least the County Championship offers a good prospect of good cricket over 4 days over August and September.
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