SE5 Gas
Joined: July 2014
Posts: 113
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Post by SE5 Gas on Jan 28, 2016 21:27:54 GMT
Great article!
Especially agree on the craziness of scrapping the student discount whilst trying to go in to partnership with UWE!!!
I returned to study for a couple of years in my early 30's and was skint, the student discount meant I was still able to go to a fair few games. There's no way I could have justified spending £20 odd quid for a game at that time.
Like you say not only is the new 16-21 category a lot more expensive than the old student category but also many students are 22,23 with a fair few older.
Looking around the mem on match days the crowds are quite old, in my view it's bad economics from the club to not make it more attractive for the young to come along and potentially get hooked.
Are the issues you raise something that the supporters club could take forward through their representatives?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 21:31:49 GMT
I would agree to Student tickets upper level being increased to 22, but above that I would say no. This is not a general swipe at mature students but there has to be a cut off at some point and I honestly believe that there are people out there happy to keep doing evening courses etc on the premise you get a student union card.
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Post by interceptor on Jan 29, 2016 8:35:11 GMT
it's far more complex than a sentence. it's not just about reduced price, it's about long term support. To give a very simplistic equation, if 8,000 people at £15 is the same direct revenue as 6,000 at £20, surely you'd still want the 8,000 as they may come again, but a pastie, bring their kid next time, etc. Show me a football club who've built long term success on a small fan base? and about filling capapcity, especially earlier in the season. of course i wish I had finished it and published it in November, but I was busy. an intelligent person can still see the bigger issues though. a few big crowds don't mean sustainability. Again though that's an assumption, that the increase in attendance from the lower price will be sufficient to cover the lost ticket revenue. I'm not saying that its wrong, but it has to be challenged.
Assuming 3,500 season ticket holders, you're suggesting an 80% increase in pay on the day customers for a 25% decrease in price. For me that's bit of a jump. If we assume a 25% increase, which is still loads, that gives us an attendance of 6,625.
att 6000 3,500 season ticket holders, so 2,500 paying £20 = £50000
But what if..
att 6625 3,500 season ticket holders, so 3,125 paying £15 = £46875
= bankrupt club!
Well reasoned. Guitar We don't know the gross margin made on a meal deal, let's assume 50%. Even if every one of the extra 625 people bought a £5.50 meal deal the turnover would just tip over £50,000 but the actual revenue would be £1437.50 less. The answer is £16 per ticket driving 25% more traffic and £21.00 for a ticket including a meal deal, offering the valued supporter 2.5% discount against the two separate purchases. If the catering department could drive a harder bargain on the increased purchases, this may well offset additional match day costs, perhaps making the exercise cost neutral. Seriously though, in order to increase revenue by reducing prices you require a big additional rise in income whilst maintaining the previous cost base! I don't like stumping up £90 a week when the whole family goes. Bristol Rovers do not make a profit, and therefore until we do, we are stuck with the prices. If we rise up the leagues in our state of the art new stadium, start becoming one of the very few profitable clubs, I cannot see the prices reducing.........can you?
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Post by interceptor on Jan 29, 2016 8:36:56 GMT
I have absolutely no idea why the word guitar has appeared in my post above ........ridiculous
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 29, 2016 8:55:47 GMT
Again though that's an assumption, that the increase in attendance from the lower price will be sufficient to cover the lost ticket revenue. I'm not saying that its wrong, but it has to be challenged.
Assuming 3,500 season ticket holders, you're suggesting an 80% increase in pay on the day customers for a 25% decrease in price. For me that's bit of a jump. If we assume a 25% increase, which is still loads, that gives us an attendance of 6,625.
att 6000 3,500 season ticket holders, so 2,500 paying £20 = £50000
But what if..
att 6625 3,500 season ticket holders, so 3,125 paying £15 = £46875
= bankrupt club!
Well reasoned. Guitar We don't know the gross margin made on a meal deal, let's assume 50%. Even if every one of the extra 625 people bought a £5.50 meal deal the turnover would just tip over £50,000 but the actual revenue would be £1437.50 less. The answer is £16 per ticket driving 25% more traffic and £21.00 for a ticket including a meal deal, offering the valued supporter 2.5% discount against the two separate purchases. If the catering department could drive a harder bargain on the increased purchases, this may well offset additional match day costs, perhaps making the exercise cost neutral. Seriously though, in order to increase revenue by reducing prices you require a big additional rise in income whilst maintaining the previous cost base! I don't like stumping up £90 a week when the whole family goes. Bristol Rovers do not make a profit, and therefore until we do, we are stuck with the prices. If we rise up the leagues in our state of the art new stadium, start becoming one of the very few profitable clubs, I cannot see the prices reducing.........can you? Ah, but the pasties and that are franchised, aren't they? What's our actual cut?
And £16 is only a £20% cut, so assume just 20% increase in pay on the day, so just 500 extra customers...
I reckon the relationship isn't liner, either. A couple of quid probably won't make much difference to attendances, there's probably a sweet spot somewhere. But when it comes down to it, as we've seen recently, the only way of increasing attendances profitably in the short term is success on the pitch.
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 669
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Post by Thatslife on Jan 29, 2016 12:47:29 GMT
From a personal point of view I think keeping the student prices for those aged 16-21 as that will probably capture most students and they are likely to have less disposable income (but not always)makes sense, whereas the mature student tends to have worked for while and in theory would therefore have more disposable income (as I understand it someone who goes to uni after working for a few years benefits from better loans than those who go straight from school). I may be wrong in my assumptions above but at the end of the day you can't please everyone!! 1 - Honestly, the boom in post grad stsudents is a massive market and we are now missing it. or even 22 year olds. LOTS of courses are 4 years. LOTS have gap years. People can laugh all they want at students but they are a massive and growing market and just as we're in league with the UWE we scrap the student discount. Go figure. 2 - Even if you don;t care about the above what about the signal is negative sends out to students, young people, the UWE, and others? Not all publicity is good publicity. Taking the population 16 to 21's in Bristol , it must be higher than that of students over 21. Changing it from students to 16 to 21 must open up the offer to more people than just students.
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Post by matealotblue on Jan 29, 2016 13:11:54 GMT
I have absolutely no idea why the word guitar has appeared in my post above ........ridiculous Don't fret.....it will probably strike a chord somewhere.
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 669
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Post by Thatslife on Jan 29, 2016 13:17:19 GMT
Well reasoned. Guitar We don't know the gross margin made on a meal deal, let's assume 50%. Even if every one of the extra 625 people bought a £5.50 meal deal the turnover would just tip over £50,000 but the actual revenue would be £1437.50 less. The answer is £16 per ticket driving 25% more traffic and £21.00 for a ticket including a meal deal, offering the valued supporter 2.5% discount against the two separate purchases. If the catering department could drive a harder bargain on the increased purchases, this may well offset additional match day costs, perhaps making the exercise cost neutral. Seriously though, in order to increase revenue by reducing prices you require a big additional rise in income whilst maintaining the previous cost base! I don't like stumping up £90 a week when the whole family goes. Bristol Rovers do not make a profit, and therefore until we do, we are stuck with the prices. If we rise up the leagues in our state of the art new stadium, start becoming one of the very few profitable clubs, I cannot see the prices reducing.........can you? Ah, but the pasties and that are franchised, aren't they? What's our actual cut?
And £16 is only a £20% cut, so assume just 20% increase in pay on the day, so just 500 extra customers...
I reckon the relationship isn't liner, either. A couple of quid probably won't make much difference to attendances, there's probably a sweet spot somewhere. But when it comes down to it, as we've seen recently, the only way of increasing attendances profitably in the short term is success on the pitch.
They would sell mor pies and pasties if they changed them to Clarke pies and Ginster pasties.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 29, 2016 13:38:38 GMT
Ah, but the pasties and that are franchised, aren't they? What's our actual cut?
And £16 is only a £20% cut, so assume just 20% increase in pay on the day, so just 500 extra customers...
I reckon the relationship isn't liner, either. A couple of quid probably won't make much difference to attendances, there's probably a sweet spot somewhere. But when it comes down to it, as we've seen recently, the only way of increasing attendances profitably in the short term is success on the pitch.
They would sell mor pies and pasties if they changed them to Clarke pies and Ginster pasties. Clarkes pies yes, but Ginster pasties? Plasticy lorry driver fodder, service station emergency rations only. Hang your head in shame.
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 669
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Post by Thatslife on Jan 29, 2016 14:00:48 GMT
They would sell mor pies and pasties if they changed them to Clarke pies and Ginster pasties. Clarkes pies yes, but Ginster pasties? Plasticy lorry driver fodder, service station emergency rations only. Hang your head in shame. Ginsters pasties are far better than tasteless cattle fodder, whose contents resemble that of a babies nappy, that they serve at an exorbitant price.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 29, 2016 14:08:03 GMT
Clarkes pies yes, but Ginster pasties? Plasticy lorry driver fodder, service station emergency rations only. Hang your head in shame. Ginsters pasties are far better than tasteless cattle fodder, whose contents resemble that of a babies nappy, that they serve at an exorbitant price. I can only assume sir, that you are a mole placed by Samworth Bros. If you start talking about the delights of malt loaf, then we will know for sure.
Well played, Mr Samworth, but no cigar on this occasion.
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 669
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Post by Thatslife on Jan 29, 2016 14:25:49 GMT
Ginsters pasties are far better than tasteless cattle fodder, whose contents resemble that of a babies nappy, that they serve at an exorbitant price. I can only assume sir, that you are a mole placed by Samworth Bros. If you start talking about the delights of malt loaf, then we will know for sure.
Well played, Mr Samworth, but no cigar on this occasion.
I do enjoy a good malt loaf but that's about as far as my doings with the said Brothers go. As we are getting down to the nitty gritty of pasties, doesn't it annoy you the the sauce sachets have disappeared to be replaced by big bottles? Means the only sauce you can apply is when you buy it, which means that apart from the first bite, the rest is sauce less. After all the pasties being so tasteless need all the help they can get. BRING BACK THE SACHET SAUCE PACKETS ( of course you don't need sauce with Ginster pasties as they are so tasty without it)
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 29, 2016 14:49:27 GMT
I can only assume sir, that you are a mole placed by Samworth Bros. If you start talking about the delights of malt loaf, then we will know for sure.
Well played, Mr Samworth, but no cigar on this occasion.
I do enjoy a good malt loaf but that's about as far as my doings with the said Brothers go. As we are getting down to the nitty gritty of pasties, doesn't it annoy you the the sauce sachets have disappeared to be replaced by big bottles? Means the only sauce you can apply is when you buy it, which means that apart from the first bite, the rest is sauce less. After all the pasties being so tasteless need all the help they can get. BRING BACK THE SACHET SAUCE PACKETS ( of course you don't need sauce with Ginster pasties as they are so tasty without it) Oh my god I was bloody furious when that happened. Often thought about buying those things en mass and flogging them down the mem, I reckon I'd make a fortune
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 669
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Post by Thatslife on Jan 29, 2016 15:00:34 GMT
I do enjoy a good malt loaf but that's about as far as my doings with the said Brothers go. As we are getting down to the nitty gritty of pasties, doesn't it annoy you the the sauce sachets have disappeared to be replaced by big bottles? Means the only sauce you can apply is when you buy it, which means that apart from the first bite, the rest is sauce less. After all the pasties being so tasteless need all the help they can get. BRING BACK THE SACHET SAUCE PACKETS ( of course you don't need sauce with Ginster pasties as they are so tasty without it) Oh my god I was bloody furious when that happened. Often thought about buying those things en mass and flogging them down the mem, I reckon I'd make a fortune Put me down for 1 brown and 1 tomato sauce ( tomato is for my brother (whimp)) you could sell a season tickets for your sauce, reduction for oldies and students etc and more for bonus games
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boagas1883
Of course I'll introduce you to Warren
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 60
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Post by boagas1883 on Jan 29, 2016 15:43:04 GMT
Good article,totally agree.....but it's "Arsenals and Chelseas".You should know that Martin ;-)
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c4h10
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 476
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Post by c4h10 on Jan 29, 2016 15:46:58 GMT
Ah, but the pasties and that are franchised, aren't they? What's our actual cut?
And £16 is only a £20% cut, so assume just 20% increase in pay on the day, so just 500 extra customers...
I reckon the relationship isn't liner, either. A couple of quid probably won't make much difference to attendances, there's probably a sweet spot somewhere. But when it comes down to it, as we've seen recently, the only way of increasing attendances profitably in the short term is success on the pitch.
They would sell mor pies and pasties if they changed them to Clarke pies and Ginster pasties. A hot Clarke's pie needs to carry a Health and Safety warning. They have to be drunk rather than eaten. I would rather not sit in front of a punter eating one, because of the risk of scalding. And Ginster's instead of Proper Cornish? You have to be joking, buddy.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 29, 2016 16:02:07 GMT
They would sell mor pies and pasties if they changed them to Clarke pies and Ginster pasties. A hot Clarke's pie needs to carry a Health and Safety warning. They have to be drunk rather than eaten. I would rather not sit in front of a punter eating one, because of the risk of scalding. And Ginster's instead of Proper Cornish? You have to be joking, buddy. Having them fresh from the shop is/was one of my guilty pleasures. I used to nip up to the one, in Kingswood, and buy us a few and we would sit and eat them together. That holds fond memories for me Do they have any shops left in Bristol now ? I know they had a couple in Newport. Family feud
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 669
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Post by Thatslife on Jan 29, 2016 16:18:51 GMT
A hot Clarke's pie needs to carry a Health and Safety warning. They have to be drunk rather than eaten. I would rather not sit in front of a punter eating one, because of the risk of scalding. And Ginster's instead of Proper Cornish? You have to be joking, buddy. Having them fresh from the shop is/was one of my guilty pleasures. I used to nip up to the one, in Kingswood, and buy us a few and we would sit and eat them together. That holds fond memories for me Do they have any shops left in Bristol now ? I know they had a couple in Newport. Family feud There used to be one in Bedminster and I believe there is one in Avonmouth but must admit I haven't been to either.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 29, 2016 16:50:39 GMT
Having them fresh from the shop is/was one of my guilty pleasures. I used to nip up to the one, in Kingswood, and buy us a few and we would sit and eat them together. That holds fond memories for me Do they have any shops left in Bristol now ? I know they had a couple in Newport. Family feud There used to be one in Bedminster and I believe there is one in Avonmouth but must admit I haven't been to either. That's a bloody shame as they used to have one in Kingswood and then one just down on the Redfield road or what I still call St George
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Post by davehuddscousin on Jan 29, 2016 16:51:12 GMT
Bring back the original Chicken Balti pies I say!
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