Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920 
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 21, 2015 9:02:18 GMT
Platini and Blatter
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Post by lostinspace on Dec 21, 2015 9:08:42 GMT
my my my..... i guess nobody will be surprised at that..........except 2 people!!
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Dec 21, 2015 17:37:40 GMT
My initial thoughts are that the bans are too short for both men, who are both still in denial it seems to me, and the fines are best described as derisory. Hopefully the American authorities will now seek extradition, and the smug looks may well be wiped clean off of both of their faces. But somehow I doubt it, but at the same time I still hope for it. But what about the £19m that the FA spent in pursuing our doomed 2018 World Cup bid? Not only did the English FA finish up looking ridiculous by polling just two votes (one of which was our own) in the voting process, but by employing high ranking politicians, former players and royalty the whole of English football was reduced to a laughing stock . . . because the result of the vote was already known. Nothing can change that of course, but we should at least be given our money back. But again I doubt that that will happen as well. But I think what really cooked Blatter and Platini's goose was the treatment that Australia and the USA received in the voting process for the 2022 World Cup. Australia weren't too happy with their one vote, but what really did for the pair of them was the rejection of the USA in favour of (all nations on the planet) Qatar. That put quite a lot of people within the FIFA organisation under the microscope. Enter the FBI and all hell is still breaking loose, but Blatter and Platini are still protesting. They have no shame.  |
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Dec 21, 2015 17:59:55 GMT
My initial thoughts are that the bans are too short for both men, who are both still in denial it seems to me, and the fines are best described as derisory. Hopefully the American authorities will now seek extradition, and the smug looks may well be wiped clean off of both of their faces. But somehow I doubt it, but at the same time I still hope for it. But what about the £19m that the FA spent in pursuing our doomed 2018 World Cup bid? Not only did the English FA finish up looking ridiculous by polling just two votes (one of which was our own) in the voting process, but by employing high ranking politicians, former players and royalty the whole of English football was reduced to a laughing stock . . . because the result of the vote was already known. Nothing can change that of course, but we should at least be given our money back. But again I doubt that that will happen as well. But I think what really cooked Blatter and Platini's goose was the treatment that Australia and the USA received in the voting process for the 2022 World Cup. Australia weren't too happy with their one vote, but what really did for the pair of them was the rejection of the USA in favour of (all nations on the planet) Qatar. That put quite a lot of people within the FIFA organisation under the microscope. Enter the FBI and all hell is still breaking loose, but Blatter and Platini are still protesting. They have no shame. But the problem with that perspective is that it assumes that we played fair and were screwed over by people who cheated which isn't what happened. In reality we were as complicit in the dodgy goings on as anyone else but ended up being outmaneouvered. We went to Trinidad to kiss the ring of Jack Warner and provide mysterious 'grassroots support' for his association. We buttered up some of the most morally dubious people in the game, we tried to do a deal with Qatar on vote switching when it became apparent that they had become major players etc etc. Just because we weren't the worst offenders in the process doesn't mean there isn't a pretty big charge sheet against us too. The FA were not a bunch of naive dupes in all of this - they were just as complicit in moral malaise. If they had stood up a few months into the process and cried foul then maybe there's a moral high ground to stand on; as it is the English suits were down there in the gutter with the rest of them and the World will not be taking a lecture from the English FA in ethics here. |
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Dec 21, 2015 18:19:23 GMT
My initial thoughts are that the bans are too short for both men, who are both still in denial it seems to me, and the fines are best described as derisory. Hopefully the American authorities will now seek extradition, and the smug looks may well be wiped clean off of both of their faces. But somehow I doubt it, but at the same time I still hope for it. But what about the £19m that the FA spent in pursuing our doomed 2018 World Cup bid? Not only did the English FA finish up looking ridiculous by polling just two votes (one of which was our own) in the voting process, but by employing high ranking politicians, former players and royalty the whole of English football was reduced to a laughing stock . . . because the result of the vote was already known. Nothing can change that of course, but we should at least be given our money back. But again I doubt that that will happen as well. But I think what really cooked Blatter and Platini's goose was the treatment that Australia and the USA received in the voting process for the 2022 World Cup. Australia weren't too happy with their one vote, but what really did for the pair of them was the rejection of the USA in favour of (all nations on the planet) Qatar. That put quite a lot of people within the FIFA organisation under the microscope. Enter the FBI and all hell is still breaking loose, but Blatter and Platini are still protesting. They have no shame. But the problem with that perspective is that it assumes that we played fair and were screwed over by people who cheated which isn't what happened. In reality we were as complicit in the dodgy goings on as anyone else but ended up being outmaneouvered. We went to Trinidad to kiss the ring of Jack Warner and provide mysterious 'grassroots support' for his association. We buttered up some of the most morally dubious people in the game, we tried to do a deal with Qatar on vote switching when it became apparent that they had become major players etc etc. Just because we weren't the worst offenders in the process doesn't mean there isn't a pretty big charge sheet against us too. The FA were not a bunch of naive dupes in all of this - they were just as complicit in moral malaise. If they had stood up a few months into the process and cried foul then maybe there's a moral high ground to stand on; as it is the English suits were down there in the gutter with the rest of them and the World will not be taking a lecture from the English FA in ethics here. Yes, I'm bound to agree with you as regards the FA's behaviour. My post (or rant if you prefer) started and finished with Blatter and Platini's behaviour, but I did allow myself to become a bit distracted midway through and start banging on about the FA. In common parlance I lost my focus  , but you are correct in what you say about the FA's antics. Still £19m is still an awful lot of money. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 22:17:39 GMT
Not long enough.
I.O.C next please.
And whilst that khaze is being cleaned out don't overlook 'butter wouldn't melt' Seb Coe.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Dec 22, 2015 2:29:57 GMT
But the problem with that perspective is that it assumes that we played fair and were screwed over by people who cheated which isn't what happened. In reality we were as complicit in the dodgy goings on as anyone else but ended up being outmaneouvered. We went to Trinidad to kiss the ring of Jack Warner and provide mysterious 'grassroots support' for his association. We buttered up some of the most morally dubious people in the game, we tried to do a deal with Qatar on vote switching when it became apparent that they had become major players etc etc. Just because we weren't the worst offenders in the process doesn't mean there isn't a pretty big charge sheet against us too. The FA were not a bunch of naive dupes in all of this - they were just as complicit in moral malaise. If they had stood up a few months into the process and cried foul then maybe there's a moral high ground to stand on; as it is the English suits were down there in the gutter with the rest of them and the World will not be taking a lecture from the English FA in ethics here. Yes, I'm bound to agree with you as regards the FA's behaviour. My post (or rant if you prefer) started and finished with Blatter and Platini's behaviour, but I did allow myself to become a bit distracted midway through and start banging on about the FA. In common parlance I lost my focus , but you are correct in what you say about the FA's antics. Still £19m is still an awful lot of money. It certainly is and the people who made the key decisions should be bloody well made accountable for why they entered a process they clearly knew was bent from the off!
You're absolutely right regarding Blatter and Platini. But the problem is that in this country the press tend to frame it in terms of individuals. Ie. Get rid of Platini, get rid of Blatter, change a few issues of governance and then things will be better. Those people absolutely deserve the book to be thrown at them but having read and listened to people who are experts in this area it seems more a question of politics than anything else rather than individual corruption. The one leads to the other. The English FA (and perhaps English football more generally) needs to develop a much better understanding of the political realities of organisations like FIFA. It's all very well us bouncing up and down pointing fingers at individuals who have transgressed but when I speak to my football fan friends from South America and from Asia they see the English FA largely as bitter losers rather than people standing up for a better approach to World football. It's not that they like Blatter and Platini, it's that they see the English as lecturing people from an unwarranted high horse. Whereas the reality is that if the English FA really wants influence in World Football it needs to reach out and build alliances and networks that would represent a new power base in the game - something that we should be able to do given the global reach of English football but it requires an international perspective not a parochial one. That way you might get a better managed game which would benefit many countries. Modern international sport is realpolitik - I think we've been very slow on the uptake in that respect.
You are right that messing with the US bid was probably what has pulled this down either directly or indirectly. It caused the US authorities to examine the incredible corruption in their own federation (the root cause of really quite a lot of this stems from the dodgy dealings and relationships founded around the 94 USA World Cup) and then expand outwards. But the problem is that English/European football interests are not necessarily aligned with US football interests even now. No one is going to accept a World again in which the major European football nations call all the shots in FIFA - so we need to be a lot smarter. Personally, I think I'm as far away as I ever have been from seeing a World Cup in England during my lifetime.
Bamber's bang on the money re; IAAF (arguably far worse than the FIFA situation). But it does highlight the issues involved. These are complex, multinational organisations with incredibly inadequate governance structures that belong in a different era in which people were far less likely to demand the same level of accountability. It's an issue across the board. |
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Dec 22, 2015 6:51:17 GMT
So it seems FIFA members have been 'at it' for years. Our innocence has been shattered, someone will be telling us high ranking politicians are corrupt next.
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Dec 22, 2015 14:47:43 GMT
Yes, I'm bound to agree with you as regards the FA's behaviour. My post (or rant if you prefer) started and finished with Blatter and Platini's behaviour, but I did allow myself to become a bit distracted midway through and start banging on about the FA. In common parlance I lost my focus , but you are correct in what you say about the FA's antics. Still £19m is still an awful lot of money. It certainly is and the people who made the key decisions should be bloody well made accountable for why they entered a process they clearly knew was bent from the off!
You're absolutely right regarding Blatter and Platini. But the problem is that in this country the press tend to frame it in terms of individuals. Ie. Get rid of Platini, get rid of Blatter, change a few issues of governance and then things will be better. Those people absolutely deserve the book to be thrown at them but having read and listened to people who are experts in this area it seems more a question of politics than anything else rather than individual corruption. The one leads to the other. The English FA (and perhaps English football more generally) needs to develop a much better understanding of the political realities of organisations like FIFA. It's all very well us bouncing up and down pointing fingers at individuals who have transgressed but when I speak to my football fan friends from South America and from Asia they see the English FA largely as bitter losers rather than people standing up for a better approach to World football. It's not that they like Blatter and Platini, it's that they see the English as lecturing people from an unwarranted high horse. Whereas the reality is that if the English FA really wants influence in World Football it needs to reach out and build alliances and networks that would represent a new power base in the game - something that we should be able to do given the global reach of English football but it requires an international perspective not a parochial one. That way you might get a better managed game which would benefit many countries. Modern international sport is realpolitik - I think we've been very slow on the uptake in that respect.
You are right that messing with the US bid was probably what has pulled this down either directly or indirectly. It caused the US authorities to examine the incredible corruption in their own federation (the root cause of really quite a lot of this stems from the dodgy dealings and relationships founded around the 94 USA World Cup) and then expand outwards. But the problem is that English/European football interests are not necessarily aligned with US football interests even now. No one is going to accept a World again in which the major European football nations call all the shots in FIFA - so we need to be a lot smarter. Personally, I think I'm as far away as I ever have been from seeing a World Cup in England during my lifetime.
Bamber's bang on the money re; IAAF (arguably far worse than the FIFA situation). But it does highlight the issues involved. These are complex, multinational organisations with incredibly inadequate governance structures that belong in a different era in which people were far less likely to demand the same level of accountability. It's an issue across the board. You have a point there, but as you allude to, it's an English problem rather than a British problem. I don't recall ever seeing Wales, Ulster or Scotland ever getting too involved with the political side (or on the wrong side if it comes to that) of the rest of the sporting world. That seems to be the domain of the English authorities (assuming of course that we exclude the ECB), and even then we are routinely called rude names by the other cricket-playing countries on occasions. In rugby too England seem to have the ability to rub other countries up the wrong way. I have often read the comments of not only the other Home Nations, but also (predictably) the French and Australians. It often seems to me that we do seem to sail our ship alone, and seem quite happy to do so. The English attitude in sport (and politics too) is often called arrogance by some other countries, but I prefer to see it as confidence. Perhaps it's a throwback to the time when we didn't need the help or support of other nations to make our way in the world? As regards forming alliances with other countries, this is a criticism that is often levelled at the United Kingdom within the European Union's parliament. We're told that our politicians at Brussels fail to engage with others in the powerhouse politics, and that often leads us to be isolated from the pack. Perhaps this is the reason that Scotland is so adamant that in the event of a YES vote in the upcoming referendum, then they would want to stay within the EU. But the fact remains that where England's sporting administrators are concerned, they appear to be unwilling to join with others . . . even when it would be clearly to our advantage to do so. I believe that it's in the DNA of English people to stand aside from the herd, but history will show that when it is important to the country to form alliances then they are formed quite rapidly. But equally I don't believe that we do ourselves any favours on occasions. |
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, but you are correct in what you say about the FA's antics. Still £19m is still an awful lot of money.