JeffNZ
Administrator
Jimmy Morgan
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,761
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Post by JeffNZ on Feb 26, 2015 4:39:09 GMT
Despite the trauma endured during and after the New Zealand game, I have tickets for the Sri Lanka game so will be chancing my luck again.
What's the verdict then? I think it will be close but England really should do it.
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Post by lostinspace on Feb 26, 2015 8:05:10 GMT
Despite the trauma endured during and after the New Zealand game, I have tickets for the Sri Lanka game so will be chancing my luck again. What's the verdict then? I think it will be close but England really should do it. you expecting snow?
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Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
Straight outta burrington...
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 472
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Post by Captain Jayho on Feb 26, 2015 8:44:38 GMT
Take plenty of beer money Jeff, you'll probably need it to get some enjoyment out of the day. That is my advice!
Would be nice if we could step up but I think the confidence is shot.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Feb 26, 2015 11:58:53 GMT
Well Sri Lanka looked pretty awful against New Zealand but they seem to now be into the rhythm of the tournament now and just comfortably won what could have been a tricky game against Bangladesh. All things being equal I think Sri Lanka would be comfortable favourites - over the last 7-8 years they've been one of the top one day sides in the world. They have made 5 major finals and they came runners up in the last World Cup. They are probably a bit over the hill now but they are extremely experienced and have more proven match winners than we do. Their pedigree is way better than ours. For some reason England cricket always tends to look down on Sri Lanka and assume they are one of the minor nations we should be beating - that doesn't really stack up because if you exclude their early years historically they have whupped us in one day cricket and run us pretty tight in Test Matches. This summer losing to Sri Lanka at home was treated as an embarrassment and, sure, we should have beaten them but it's still a side that deserves respect which we don't seem to ever give them. I find it a bit odd.
This is a team that has the best batsman in the World, and possibly the best wicket-keeper batsman ever, over the last few years (Sangakarra). Seriously this guy's record stacks up favourable against most all-time greats. Dilshan is a devastating match winning opener of the type we don't really have. Jayawardene the perfect batsman for keeping the board moving in the middle overs and another great of his era. Angelo Matthews is a very under rated player and a good finisher. Rangan Herath is possibly the best spinner in the World right now albeit among fairly limited competition - he is very good though and England always struggle against spin. Malinga is a nightmare to face if he gets it right which he does more often than not. That's 6 players who would walk into the England team. These are vastly experienced and reliable match winners in ODI's of the type we have never really had in ODI cricket.
Where England would hope to have an advantage over Sri Lanka is in depth. Sri Lanka have high quality up top but are always going to be a bit stretched with playing resources. The trouble is there's no evidence that England actually have much depth - we just haven't delivered consistently to justify that expectation. Which leaves the one place that England do have a clear advantage over Sri Lanka - depth of seam attack. The only players who would be guaranteed to get into a Sri Lankan side would be Anderson, Broad and Finn. That is the one thing they don't really have. After Malinga their seam attack is pedestrian and possibly sub-county standard. The problem is that if this was in Australia that would mean a big advantage to England but in New Zealand it's less of an advantage because the ball tends to move around more and that will suit their dibbly-dobbly merchants as much as it will our bowlers. What England would want is a hard bouncey pitch to press home that advantage and I don't think they'll get one. They would love to be playing the Sri Lankans in Perth.
All things considered I would have thought Sri Lanka would rightly start as fairly firm favourites; they are vastly experienced, have been very successful and absolutely destroyed England in the Quarter Final of the last World Cup. Surely England are due a win against someone decent one of these days and Sri Lanka are more vulnerable than New Zealand and Australia. If we lose it will mean a nervy game against Bangladesh.
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Post by lostinspace on Feb 28, 2015 22:58:02 GMT
12 overs in and England 70 -1 , steady start for them... even promising should i dare to utter!!!
ooops 12.2 and Balance goes!! 70-2
20 overs.... 101 -3 bell for 49
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 0:02:04 GMT
Unimpressive at the moment. We appear to be just going through the motions.
143/3.
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JeffNZ
Administrator
Jimmy Morgan
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,761
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Post by JeffNZ on Mar 1, 2015 6:09:19 GMT
Why you have two totally ineffective bowlers in Broad and Anderson in the squad let alone the team is beyond me.
I've just left the same stadium England were humiliated in 10 days ago once again embarrassed to be an England supporter.
There is no way the establishment that run the English game are going to change or modernise so that's it for me. I have the luxury of having a second team in the Kiwis so from here on in they will become my #1 team.
Call it treason or treachery if you want but I am not willing to endure the emotional torture England cricket put its supporters through.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
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Post by jackthegas on Mar 1, 2015 11:09:02 GMT
Why you have two totally ineffective bowlers in Broad and Anderson in the squad let alone the team is beyond me. I've just left the same stadium England were humiliated in 10 days ago once again embarrassed to be an England supporter. There is no way the establishment that run the English game are going to change or modernise so that's it for me. I have the luxury of having a second team in the Kiwis so from here on in they will become my #1 team. Call it treason or treachery if you want but I am not willing to endure the emotional torture England cricket put its supporters through. Not hindsight I promise you but I feared Anderson would be ineffective in this World Cup especially if he couldn't get the ball to swing. I think he's lost a bit of nip recently too and I think he is past his best. Broad has had a lot of injuries. He definitely isn't back to his best yet and I don't think he'll ever fully fulfil his potential. Ultimately, they're both in the side because we've got no one better. With the batting you could argue that the likes of Stokes and Roy are better than Bopara or Ballance but none of our promising bowlers have kicked on. They've completely ruined Finn. He's still way down on pace. He had all the tools to be one of England's all time greats but he's nowhere near that level at the moment. We are crying out for a bit of variety in our attack. The left armer Gurney would have played more if he wasn't hopeless with the bat and we need someone who's quick but the two quickest bowlers I've seen in recent years, Mills and Meaker, can't get into their county sides on a regular basis.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Mar 1, 2015 13:27:38 GMT
Why you have two totally ineffective bowlers in Broad and Anderson in the squad let alone the team is beyond me. I've just left the same stadium England were humiliated in 10 days ago once again embarrassed to be an England supporter. There is no way the establishment that run the English game are going to change or modernise so that's it for me. I have the luxury of having a second team in the Kiwis so from here on in they will become my #1 team. Call it treason or treachery if you want but I am not willing to endure the emotional torture England cricket put its supporters through. Not hindsight I promise you but I feared Anderson would be ineffective in this World Cup especially if he couldn't get the ball to swing. I think he's lost a bit of nip recently too and I think he is past his best. Broad has had a lot of injuries. He definitely isn't back to his best yet and I don't think he'll ever fully fulfil his potential. Ultimately, they're both in the side because we've got no one better. With the batting you could argue that the likes of Stokes and Roy are better than Bopara or Ballance but none of our promising bowlers have kicked on. They've completely ruined Finn. He's still way down on pace. He had all the tools to be one of England's all time greats but he's nowhere near that level at the moment. We are crying out for a bit of variety in our attack. The left armer Gurney would have played more if he wasn't hopeless with the bat and we need someone who's quick but the two quickest bowlers I've seen in recent years, Mills and Meaker, can't get into their county sides on a regular basis. I'd have liked to see them give Gurney a go. For some reason, and this I really don't have an answer to, England does not seem to ever produce left-arm seamers. In my lifetime I can remember 3; Ryan Sidebottom, Alan Mullaly (who was actually Australian) and Mark Illot. Of that lot only Sidebottom had any kind of decent career with England and arguably that came too late. Seems odd to me but if you look back in history we actually never have produced one. Peter Lever would count at a push. It's strange. Mills and Meaker are very eratic. You are right that there is not much in the cupboard at the moment. The thing is we can argue about the relative merits of Stokes and Roy over Bopara and Ballance but I don't think we can make any kind of convincing case that it would make much of a difference. We're getting smashed - it's about more than just fiddling with a few selections round the fringes; it's clearly our whole approach which is flawed. I don't have a clue what is wrong with Broad - he looks awful at the moment. I'm not sure Anderson has ever been as effective an ODI bowler really. Why on earth hasn't Jordan been given a shot? If he can't get in this side at this time why is he there. The only bowler to come out that game with any credit is Moeen who went for a very credible 5 an over while the ball was being wanged round the park. Jeff - don't give up. England are still a good Test team, we're just utterly crap at this format and have been for ages now. Believe it or not due to this silly tournament if England beat Afghanistan (not a walkover) and Bangladesh (who are better than they have played and have 3 genuine match-winners on their day) they still get to the Quarters and that actually represents some progress! At least you got to see one of the all-time greats show England how it's done in what will probably be his final matches. Sangakarra is a genius. It would be justice if it rained for the Afghan or Bangladesh match - England have been destroyed by the 3 decent teams in this group and they really deserve to go out; there should be no get of our jail free card here. I have this fear where we sneak into the quarters win a rain effected match, get to the semi's and everything is suddenly declared hunky dory.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
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Post by jackthegas on Mar 1, 2015 13:56:41 GMT
Not hindsight I promise you but I feared Anderson would be ineffective in this World Cup especially if he couldn't get the ball to swing. I think he's lost a bit of nip recently too and I think he is past his best. Broad has had a lot of injuries. He definitely isn't back to his best yet and I don't think he'll ever fully fulfil his potential. Ultimately, they're both in the side because we've got no one better. With the batting you could argue that the likes of Stokes and Roy are better than Bopara or Ballance but none of our promising bowlers have kicked on. They've completely ruined Finn. He's still way down on pace. He had all the tools to be one of England's all time greats but he's nowhere near that level at the moment. We are crying out for a bit of variety in our attack. The left armer Gurney would have played more if he wasn't hopeless with the bat and we need someone who's quick but the two quickest bowlers I've seen in recent years, Mills and Meaker, can't get into their county sides on a regular basis. I'd have liked to see them give Gurney a go. For some reason, and this I really don't have an answer to, England does not seem to ever produce left-arm seamers. In my lifetime I can remember 3; Ryan Sidebottom, Alan Mullaly (who was actually Australian) and Mark Illot. Of that lot only Sidebottom had any kind of decent career with England and arguably that came too late. Seems odd to me but if you look back in history we actually never have produced one. Peter Lever would count at a push. It's strange. Mills and Meaker are very eratic. You are right that there is not much in the cupboard at the moment. The thing is we can argue about the relative merits of Stokes and Roy over Bopara and Ballance but I don't think we can make any kind of convincing case that it would make much of a difference. We're getting smashed - it's about more than just fiddling with a few selections round the fringes; it's clearly our whole approach which is flawed. I don't have a clue what is wrong with Broad - he looks awful at the moment. I'm not sure Anderson has ever been as effective an ODI bowler really. Why on earth hasn't Jordan been given a shot? If he can't get in this side at this time why is he there. The only bowler to come out that game with any credit is Moeen who went for a very credible 5 an over while the ball was being wanged round the park. Jeff - don't give up. England are still a good Test team, we're just utterly crap at this format and have been for ages now. Believe it or not due to this silly tournament if England beat Afghanistan (not a walkover) and Bangladesh (who are better than they have played and have 3 genuine match-winners on their day) they still get to the Quarters and that actually represents some progress! At least you got to see one of the all-time greats show England how it's done in what will probably be his final matches. Sangakarra is a genius. It would be justice if it rained for the Afghan or Bangladesh match - England have been destroyed by the 3 decent teams in this group and they really deserve to go out; there should be no get of our jail free card here. I have this fear where we sneak into the quarters win a rain effected match, get to the semi's and everything is suddenly declared hunky dory. Yeah just to clarify, I don't think Roy or Stokes would win England matches but there are at least English batsmen who win their counties matches. I can't think of a single English seamer who regularly wins matches for his county. Even Gurney has a better T20 than list A record. in terms of English left armers...how could you forget Mike Smith! I've never forgiven Graham Thorpe for dropping Matthew Elliott.
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Post by Marriott on Mar 1, 2015 14:08:41 GMT
Not hindsight I promise you but I feared Anderson would be ineffective in this World Cup especially if he couldn't get the ball to swing. I think he's lost a bit of nip recently too and I think he is past his best. Broad has had a lot of injuries. He definitely isn't back to his best yet and I don't think he'll ever fully fulfil his potential. Ultimately, they're both in the side because we've got no one better. With the batting you could argue that the likes of Stokes and Roy are better than Bopara or Ballance but none of our promising bowlers have kicked on. They've completely ruined Finn. He's still way down on pace. He had all the tools to be one of England's all time greats but he's nowhere near that level at the moment. We are crying out for a bit of variety in our attack. The left armer Gurney would have played more if he wasn't hopeless with the bat and we need someone who's quick but the two quickest bowlers I've seen in recent years, Mills and Meaker, can't get into their county sides on a regular basis. I'd have liked to see them give Gurney a go. For some reason, and this I really don't have an answer to, England does not seem to ever produce left-arm seamers. In my lifetime I can remember 3; Ryan Sidebottom, Alan Mullaly (who was actually Australian) and Mark Illot. Of that lot only Sidebottom had any kind of decent career with England and arguably that came too late. Seems odd to me but if you look back in history we actually never have produced one. Peter Lever would count at a push. It's strange. Mills and Meaker are very eratic. You are right that there is not much in the cupboard at the moment. The thing is we can argue about the relative merits of Stokes and Roy over Bopara and Ballance but I don't think we can make any kind of convincing case that it would make much of a difference. We're getting smashed - it's about more than just fiddling with a few selections round the fringes; it's clearly our whole approach which is flawed. I don't have a clue what is wrong with Broad - he looks awful at the moment. I'm not sure Anderson has ever been as effective an ODI bowler really. Why on earth hasn't Jordan been given a shot? If he can't get in this side at this time why is he there. The only bowler to come out that game with any credit is Moeen who went for a very credible 5 an over while the ball was being wanged round the park. Jeff - don't give up. England are still a good Test team, we're just utterly crap at this format and have been for ages now. Believe it or not due to this silly tournament if England beat Afghanistan (not a walkover) and Bangladesh (who are better than they have played and have 3 genuine match-winners on their day) they still get to the Quarters and that actually represents some progress! At least you got to see one of the all-time greats show England how it's done in what will probably be his final matches. Sangakarra is a genius. It would be justice if it rained for the Afghan or Bangladesh match - England have been destroyed by the 3 decent teams in this group and they really deserve to go out; there should be no get of our jail free card here. I have this fear where we sneak into the quarters win a rain effected match, get to the semi's and everything is suddenly declared hunky dory. I suspect you mean Essex left-arm seamer John Lever and not Lancashire's right-arm quick Peter. Nevertheless, the point is still valid; I believe the most successful England left-arm seamer (98 Test wickets) is Bill Voce and his Test career finished just after WWII.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Mar 1, 2015 14:17:50 GMT
I'd have liked to see them give Gurney a go. For some reason, and this I really don't have an answer to, England does not seem to ever produce left-arm seamers. In my lifetime I can remember 3; Ryan Sidebottom, Alan Mullaly (who was actually Australian) and Mark Illot. Of that lot only Sidebottom had any kind of decent career with England and arguably that came too late. Seems odd to me but if you look back in history we actually never have produced one. Peter Lever would count at a push. It's strange. Mills and Meaker are very eratic. You are right that there is not much in the cupboard at the moment. The thing is we can argue about the relative merits of Stokes and Roy over Bopara and Ballance but I don't think we can make any kind of convincing case that it would make much of a difference. We're getting smashed - it's about more than just fiddling with a few selections round the fringes; it's clearly our whole approach which is flawed. I don't have a clue what is wrong with Broad - he looks awful at the moment. I'm not sure Anderson has ever been as effective an ODI bowler really. Why on earth hasn't Jordan been given a shot? If he can't get in this side at this time why is he there. The only bowler to come out that game with any credit is Moeen who went for a very credible 5 an over while the ball was being wanged round the park. Jeff - don't give up. England are still a good Test team, we're just utterly crap at this format and have been for ages now. Believe it or not due to this silly tournament if England beat Afghanistan (not a walkover) and Bangladesh (who are better than they have played and have 3 genuine match-winners on their day) they still get to the Quarters and that actually represents some progress! At least you got to see one of the all-time greats show England how it's done in what will probably be his final matches. Sangakarra is a genius. It would be justice if it rained for the Afghan or Bangladesh match - England have been destroyed by the 3 decent teams in this group and they really deserve to go out; there should be no get of our jail free card here. I have this fear where we sneak into the quarters win a rain effected match, get to the semi's and everything is suddenly declared hunky dory. I suspect you mean Essex left-arm seamer John Lever and not Lancashire's right-arm quick Peter. Nevertheless, the point is still valid; I believe the most successful England left-arm seamer (98 Test wickets) is Bill Voce and his Test career finished just after WWII. Correct - sorry I meant John I'm just about old enough to have seen him bowl for Essex on telly right at the end of his career.I didn't know Voce was left arm - most things I've read about his bowling focused on how tall he was and the awkward bounce that generated. Was Frank Tyson left arm or am I just making that up? (just checked that I'm definitely wrong there). Either way it confirms the point really - why doesn't England produce left arm seamers? Jack - Mike Smith is a bloody good example. Whether he'd have made it as a Test player might be debateable but it is ridiculous that he was never given a run in the ODI team when he was probably the best one day county bowler for a decade.
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