JeffNZ
Administrator
Jimmy Morgan
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,761
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Post by JeffNZ on Feb 20, 2015 3:29:49 GMT
Well I'm sat here in the Westpac Stadium in Wellington proudly sporting my new England cricket top and the Bristol Rovers emblazend St. George flag fluttering in a gentle breeze while warming summer sunshine spans across the packed yellow seating. What a day, what a setting.
Then England come out to bat first.
Ah feck Thanks for ruining a great day England.
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JeffNZ
Administrator
Jimmy Morgan
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,761
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Post by JeffNZ on Feb 20, 2015 4:03:54 GMT
This performance is nothing short of disgraceful by England.
Total humiliation.
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Post by gasshole on Feb 20, 2015 4:12:26 GMT
This is sh@thouse, Keepin a low profile this weekend. Awesome bowling by TImbo and Maca swinging the willow.
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Post by gasshole on Feb 20, 2015 4:55:32 GMT
Well I'm sat here in the Westpac Stadium in Wellington proudly sporting my new England cricket top and the Bristol Rovers emblazend St. George flag fluttering in a gentle breeze while warming summer sunshine spans across the packed yellow seating. What a day, what a setting. Then England come out to bat first. Ah feck Thanks for ruining a great day England. Put on a red shirt Jeff and try to catch one of them sixes, it's all you have right now.
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JeffNZ
Administrator
Jimmy Morgan
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,761
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Post by JeffNZ on Feb 20, 2015 5:21:29 GMT
Well I'm sat here in the Westpac Stadium in Wellington proudly sporting my new England cricket top and the Bristol Rovers emblazend St. George flag fluttering in a gentle breeze while warming summer sunshine spans across the packed yellow seating. What a day, what a setting. Then England come out to bat first. Ah feck Thanks for ruining a great day England. Put on a red shirt Jeff and try to catch one of them sixes, it's all you have right now. With this England bowling performance all 33,000 of us could become millionaires.
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Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
Straight outta burrington...
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 472
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Post by Captain Jayho on Feb 20, 2015 5:38:09 GMT
Absolute disgrace. Send them home now and let's save any more embarrassment. A year of planning for the world cup and that is the best we can come up with. Heads. Roll. Now.
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Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
Straight outta burrington...
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 472
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Post by Captain Jayho on Feb 20, 2015 5:49:41 GMT
KP must be laughing into his biltong. Jesus.
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Post by lostinspace on Feb 20, 2015 8:15:28 GMT
KP must be laughing into his biltong. Jesus. that is if he were not such a joke anyway
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Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
Straight outta burrington...
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 472
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Post by Captain Jayho on Feb 20, 2015 9:05:17 GMT
KP must be laughing into his biltong. Jesus. that is if he were not such a joke anyway He'd do well to be a bigger joke than our last two performances.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Feb 20, 2015 11:39:09 GMT
Ummmmm......The England cricket seems to have a problem - it's not really very good at cricket.
That was ghastly. There is nothing you can get out of that except that it in the broad context of the tournament it doesn't actually matter very much. Provided England beat Scotland, Afghanistan and Bangladesh then they are in the Quarters (although based on that performance the latter could run them close). I think it just highlights that England cricket doesn't really have much of a clue when it comes to ODI's. The rest of the world simply takes the format far more seriously than we do. We tend to wake up about 6 months before the start of the World Cup and take it seriously when everybody else has been planning to peak at it for 4 years. If England had been serious about the World Cup we wouldn't have spent all those years pissing about with Cook (and before him Vaughan) as Captain while picking the likes of Trott etc. We'd have settled our side down years ago and worked a lot more on our bowlers to develop proper one day lines.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
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Post by jackthegas on Feb 20, 2015 14:04:52 GMT
I checked the score in the middle of the night and England were 90-3. Not great at that stage but not an unmitigated disaster. When I next woke up a few hours later it was all over.
The World Cup campaign isn't all over but if we have one wash out in our remaining games we will be in trouble.
We aren't very good but we should be better than this. There is no excuse for the number of times we have failed to bat 50 overs recently.
There is no excuse for bowlers with over 10 years experience in ODIs to not be able to deliver a yorker at the end of the innings. It's staggering how stubborn they are. Even when we're getting carted for 15 an over we still bowl short. Surely it's better to be hit trying to do the right thing? Where is the confidence to back your skills?
There is no excuse for failing to pick a balanced squad. We have too many top order batsmen in the squad and so when Bopara lost form we had to completely reshuffle the batting order to accommodate Ballance. If they didn't want to pick Stokes then Bairstow or Roy would have been better options (not just hindsight, I said as much when the squad was announced).
There is no excuse for changing your opening bowling combination on the eve of the World Cup.
I would think that Moores, Downton and Whitaker will come under pressure soon. On the whole, our players are not improving when they come into the international set up. Who was the last English bowler to fulfill his potential? James Anderson I reckon.
It's a mess and I don't see any improvement on the horizon.
I think the domestic game needs to be looked at. I would consider playing fewer first class matches. Maybe have three divisions of 6 with one up from each league. Ten first class games a season would be enough I think. We certainly need to play more first class cricket in August so that our spinners are able to learn how to win matches on dry pitches rather than learning how to bowl defensively in unfriendly conditions. We should also stop the pitch inspectors punishing teams every time a track turns on Day one.
I'm not sure the young player quota rewards that the counties are offered work. Decent players drift out of the game as counties can't afford to keep them. They are replaced with substandard youngsters so counties can maximize their revenue, which is great on paper but I think it dilutes the standard. Some sort of incentive scheme is a good idea but I'm not sure the balance is right at the moment.
I think I would play a 20 over knockout competition including club sides, minor counties and first class sides if possible. The first class sides could join with no more than 5 matches left to play.
I hate myself for saying this but I think we should also look at a franchised T20 competition. To attract the best players and the maximum audience I would schedule it for four weeks at the end of July and start of August. The money made should be given back to counties / grass routes and counties would still have the knockout competition to compete in.
I think the number of 50 over games played is about right. Personally I prefer the 40 over format but it makes no sense to play 40 overs domestically and 50 internationally.
I think the franchised T20 event should be shown on terrestrial TV and highlights of the other two one day competitions should be on free to air TV too. I'd like to see at least three tests a year on free to air TV too. I know the ECB would lose money on this but it's pointless having money to invest if no one has the means to become interested in the game. The balance is wrong at the moment.
It's a big five years for cricket in this country and domestically. It's becoming irrelevant in too many places in the World and the ICC aren't doing enough to grown the game in places like Ireland. I'm not sure what else they have to do to get full member status?
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 15,742
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Post by bluetornados on Feb 20, 2015 17:18:28 GMT
This performance is nothing short of disgraceful by England. Total humiliation. Agree, shocking by England and summed up nicely by Boycs: Geoffrey Boycott, Ex-England batsman on Test Match Special "England are not out of the World Cup. They have to beat Scotland, Bangladesh and Afghanistan and then they're through to the quarter-finals. It's a good job they've got minnows to play because they are not playing good enough to beat any decent team."
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Feb 20, 2015 17:36:29 GMT
The problem with franchise cricket I think is that it misunderstands the nature of the cricket watching audience in this country and the realities of playing cricket in England. The idea that you could get an all singing all dancing cast together and drag in big crowds of casual fans doesn't square with the reality which is that cricket doesn't really seem to have a massive potential casual audience. What it has is a hardcore of people who go if they have the time and the competition looks attractive.
I just don't really see crowds jumping from 1500 to 10,000 just because Chris Gayle and Virat Kohli happen to be playing. It'll boost the crowd a bit sure but the idea that we could have an equivalent of the Big Bash in England just doesn't seem very likely to me (obviously IPL comparisons are just laughable). Cricket has more cultural significance in Australia - it has a far bigger casual audience and it's also much more pleasant to be outside in summer evenings in most of Australia. There's no getting away from the fact that in England for most of the summer it gets cold when the sun goes down and there's no guarantee of predicting which days will have warmer evenings etc. If you bunch a franchise tournament together and then we have dreadful weather for a month it'll sporting and financial catastrophe. That's the problem. I'm not against trying to find ways of making cricket more sustainable but I think we need our own model that builds from existing strengths rather than using a template that may really struggle to take off in English conditions. When we did T20 in that contained format before people just weren't prepared to go 3 times a week once the novelty had warn off. I don't really see how franchising gets round that. I think we need to start from having 18 cricket bases and work outwards from there. I would want to see counties being forced to have much closer relationships with the grassroots game - I think that would be a good start. In any case the issue here isn't our struggles in T20 cricket; we're actually pretty good at that. It's out continual abject performance in ODI's.
I'm not sure the CWC neccesarily shows the English game in crisis though - just the ODI aspect of it and that really is a question of emphasis. For other countries ODI's are cricket; for us they're a minor part. Graeme Swann basically admitted that England Test players didn't really want to play in ODI's. They found them boring. So there's a bit of a cultural thing in our game where it's just not seen as much of a pinncale. I mean look at India v Pakistan and how much that meant to everyone involved. It was a genuinely massive global sporting event. England v Australia was not on the same level; there just wasn't the same level of passion you'd see in an Ashes game. So there's an issue there. In Test Cricket we are still a very good side; we're pretty decent T20 team but we just don't seem to get this format on any level; tactically, culturally, from a media perspective etc. It's very much treated as the format the cat dragged in which is a problem if everybody else gives it far more importance.
In terms of immediate concerns; our batsman just seem completely shot. The key to ODI success is normally the lower middle order and in general they have been utterly woeful for a month now. Also NZ is a very good team chocked full of players in their prime or just entering their prime whereas we seem to be full good of players who have never quite mastered the format (Bell, Anderson etc), talented but very inexperienced players (Ali, Root etc) and guys who have been there for a while but never quite convinced (Morgan, Treadwell). So it's not really that surprising we lost. It is surprising we were annihilated though.
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Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
Straight outta burrington...
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 472
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Post by Captain Jayho on Feb 22, 2015 6:58:33 GMT
It just staggers me that we can be this bad. In honesty the ODI format is moving closer and closer to T20 - just look at the scores and the run rates in many of the games - way up on ODIs from the pre-T20 era. The T20 shots are in the ODI batsman's armoury now and the bowlers are looking to change up their pace and length almost every ball to avoid getting put over the rope too often.
We're not THAT bad at T20. We're not in the top tier any more but we're not THAT bad. So I just can't understand why our bowlers are unable to grasp the concept of death bowling in an ODI - and by that I mean the last 5-10 overs where we are getting smashed around the park for 10+ an over and barely taking a wicket until the final over. The constant short stuff is just ridiculous, so easy to put away and yes you get the odd wicket if you get lucky but mostly you're getting put into the stands.
I watched a lot of the Big Bash and most of the English players were pretty embarrassing to watch because they were so clueless compared to the Aussies - strategically speaking. And I hate saying that by the way. Australia have legions of medium to fast paced bowlers who know how to vary the pace and length and make it hard for the batsmen to get away. We seem to have Jimmy who is relatively reliable, Broad who seems to just lose his head and bowl short at the first sign of trouble and a host of other bowlers who haven't got the control or skill to deliver a decent array of deliveries consistently. It just feels like we're light years behind some of the other nations when it comes to our approach.
And don't get me started on the batting!
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Feb 24, 2015 13:46:13 GMT
It just staggers me that we can be this bad. In honesty the ODI format is moving closer and closer to T20 - just look at the scores and the run rates in many of the games - way up on ODIs from the pre-T20 era. The T20 shots are in the ODI batsman's armoury now and the bowlers are looking to change up their pace and length almost every ball to avoid getting put over the rope too often. We're not THAT bad at T20. We're not in the top tier any more but we're not THAT bad. So I just can't understand why our bowlers are unable to grasp the concept of death bowling in an ODI - and by that I mean the last 5-10 overs where we are getting smashed around the park for 10+ an over and barely taking a wicket until the final over. The constant short stuff is just ridiculous, so easy to put away and yes you get the odd wicket if you get lucky but mostly you're getting put into the stands. I watched a lot of the Big Bash and most of the English players were pretty embarrassing to watch because they were so clueless compared to the Aussies - strategically speaking. And I hate saying that by the way. Australia have legions of medium to fast paced bowlers who know how to vary the pace and length and make it hard for the batsmen to get away. We seem to have Jimmy who is relatively reliable, Broad who seems to just lose his head and bowl short at the first sign of trouble and a host of other bowlers who haven't got the control or skill to deliver a decent array of deliveries consistently. It just feels like we're light years behind some of the other nations when it comes to our approach. And don't get me started on the batting! Yeah - that is the question. We are basically OK at T20 - so why are we so bad at ODI's? I really do think there is something about learning the game in English conditions which makes a difference. Asian bowlers naturally learn to vary lines, lengths, types of delivery because it's the only way to survive. In England a guy could probably get to 20 in a County system and be very successful without ever having learnt to bowl a decent slower ball. Bowl 6 balls just back of a length on Off Stump in English conditions and you won't go far wrong because provided you can impart swing or seam the conditions will take care of the rest. There's a big difference in developing a skill once you reach the pros to it being something that just comes naturally. I think it's very hard to develop the feel for those variations as a bowler and feel comfortable. Broad is a good example - he has all the tools to be a very successful one day bowler but none of the instincts for it. The fact is if you watch a 50 Over County game you won't see bowlers varying it that much, particularly in the early powerplay overs because the ball is moving laterally so much you don't need to. In fact it's noticeable that it is the Kolpak and Overseas players who are often used at the end of the innings. Azhar Mahmood has been able to extend his career by 5 years more than he should have because he can do something very few English bowlers can do. It works for batsman too - it's very difficult to come out and blast from the start if the ball is doing all sorts of the pitch. Jayasuriya, the master pinch hitter of them all, generally struggled in English conditions. It requires a degree of circumspection. The closest we've really come in this regard are Trescothick and Knight; excellent aggressive one day players who we'd kill to have in the side now but neither really compares to the assualt levels that the likes of Mccullum, Sehway, Finch, Dharwan, Dilshan etc can deliver. For years I thought England could do worse than emulate the Glos sides of early 2000s. Aim to stick a score on the board, doesn't have to be massive, then try and strangle the game with up and down bowlers and dull as dishwater spinners coupled with top class fielding. In T20 I think that's basically what we do and we're quite successful at it. Now none of that excuses the abject performances of England (and in fact take out Moeen's excellent knock against Scotland and that might have been a lot closer - certainy didn't do much to inspire belief about the middle order) because we've had 4 years to come up with a plan and instead we look like we're making it up as we go along. ODI's are the most formulaic format; you have to know your strategy in every scenario and we hadn't even decided who the captain was till a month ago! Compare that to NZ - I don't think there's masses between the teams in terms of talent but they are a well drilled side who has been built to peak at this tournament and they know exactly what they are doing in any given situation. England look devoid of any strategy at all.
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