eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on May 18, 2019 9:52:35 GMT
Groundhopping is bloody weird, my top tip would be work to your own rules and make sure it's fun. Otherwise you end up like some folk doing 20 minutes of four games to get four ticks after a 200+ mile journey. Bonkers. Yeah - I think I have enough other weird completist tendencies without jumping into this particular web. I shall remain a casual groundhopper! I do admit that Prague has changed my perspective a little bit though - I'd always turned my nose up at going to football in other countries for no other reason than it seemed like a waste of the time I was spending there. Ie. Why go somewhere and then do the same thing you do at home anyway? But, going to Bohemians made me realise the obvious point that it's a good way of getting out of the tourist traps and seeing the 'real' city and interacting with 'real' local people. So I've definitely changed my mind on that - but I like the idea of concentrating on the smaller clubs where possible. I do have a question for you as someone who watches a lot of this sort of football. The really striking thing about the Czech experience to me was the massive difference in quality between the 2 games. These were clubs that were basically in the same division but that's clearly an accident of geography. If these clubs had been in one of the larger countries in Europe there'd have 2 or 3 divisions between them. So the question is whether this is a good or bad thing? On the one hand it gives cohesion and support for a league but couldn't it also be argued that it hold the top clubs back and prevents smaller clubs from ever competing and so leagues end forever frozen?
Clearly the issue of big clubs stuck in small leagues has been discussed to death and so have European Superleague arguments. But if you were Sparta/Slavia Prague wouldn't there be some value in exploring a central/eastern Europe League of the bigger clubs? You'd still struggle to compete with the big leagues but at least you could get some more consistent quality of competition and fan excitement if you were playing against say Rapid Vienna, Basel, Legia Warsaw, Dynamo Kiev, Steaua etc. It's not that outlandish an idea- some version of that idea existed both before the Second World War and during the late Soviet era.
Posted earlier in this thread about a trip I had to Union Berlin with my son. It coincided nicely with a Radiohead concert at the Lollapalooza festival. Obviously I'm Gas through and through, but I would say on balance that whole 'day' was the most fun I've ever had a football match. After getting over the "was is das shirt"? and "why are you here"? questions... and getting past perplexed security to get to the game... we were invited into the Ultras bar wearing the famous blue&white quarters to drink with the red&white Union fans who then insisted on buying us beers. Absolute top fans. Union will finish 3rd tomorrow (barring a miracle) and will then play off against the 3rd bottom Bundesliga side. I'll be at Wembley tomorrow sporting a rather fetching Union Berlin away shirt. Black with a pencil line red stripe. It's the only item of clothing I wear with red in it. The Orient fans I'm going with will surely appreciate the gesture... Eisern Union! |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 20, 2019 21:19:19 GMT
Yeah - I think I have enough other weird completist tendencies without jumping into this particular web. I shall remain a casual groundhopper! I do admit that Prague has changed my perspective a little bit though - I'd always turned my nose up at going to football in other countries for no other reason than it seemed like a waste of the time I was spending there. Ie. Why go somewhere and then do the same thing you do at home anyway? But, going to Bohemians made me realise the obvious point that it's a good way of getting out of the tourist traps and seeing the 'real' city and interacting with 'real' local people. So I've definitely changed my mind on that - but I like the idea of concentrating on the smaller clubs where possible.
I do have a question for you as someone who watches a lot of this sort of football. The really striking thing about the Czech experience to me was the massive difference in quality between the 2 games. These were clubs that were basically in the same division but that's clearly an accident of geography. If these clubs had been in one of the larger countries in Europe there'd have 2 or 3 divisions between them. So the question is whether this is a good or bad thing? On the one hand it gives cohesion and support for a league but couldn't it also be argued that it hold the top clubs back and prevents smaller clubs from ever competing and so leagues end forever frozen?
Clearly the issue of big clubs stuck in small leagues has been discussed to death and so have European Superleague arguments. But if you were Sparta/Slavia Prague wouldn't there be some value in exploring a central/eastern Europe League of the bigger clubs? You'd still struggle to compete with the big leagues but at least you could get some more consistent quality of competition and fan excitement if you were playing against say Rapid Vienna, Basel, Legia Warsaw, Dynamo Kiev, Steaua etc. It's not that outlandish an idea- some version of that idea existed both before the Second World War and during the late Soviet era.
It’s something that’s certainly discussed more than you’d think. I know the KNVB and RBFA discussed a potential Bene League around Euro 2000. Retaining domestic cups but having a top flight where teams from both countries can get promoted into. Now this works with two feeder countries but beyond that the system would get more complex and probably end up like the current mess that is the NL Playoff system. At the moment in Central Europe, I don’t think there’s currently an appetite for it, the league would be nearly 30 years behind the PL in establishment and the finances would be problematic. The launching of UEFA’s third club competition is basically a way of placating clubs like the ones you’ve mentioned. I do think going forward joining leagues together would be beneficial for both “domestic” leagues and clubs in European competition. Just not as large as you’ve said. Think a Swedish/Danish League, Baltic League, Austro-Hungarian League, Czechoslovakian League, these sorts of things. OK - that's interesting. It just seems like an obvious way to go.
I mean people talk about the sanctity of national leagues but many of them are not as old as people think they are and there are quite a lot of weird exceptions to strict national boundaries anyway. In fact I'd say it's more the norm than not. With travel so easy between so many of these countries it just seems like a way or pooling resources that would be beneficial. I don't think it would have a huge transformative effect or anything - the big leagues are so dominant that you're not going to suddently compete with them. But it might create a bit of buzz.
On the other hand you could see a problem for the Bohemian FC's of this world in that scenario because they would end up permanently cut off from those big games. So, I guess I'm after whether you think on balance it would be good for the game or not?
As a neutral who is increasingly fed up with the nonsense of top level football because I actually think it's now too easy for the big clubs who are so comfortable in their league status I wouldn't mind seeing this on a grand scale just to shake things up a it. It's an 'in for a penny in for a pound argument'. If you're going to have a money obsessed top level game then at least go the whole hog make it more competitive by allowing all massive clubs the chance to compete and maximise their potential. So, in all honesty, I'd be up for Rangers and Celtic in the Premier League, the Dutch giants in the Bundesliga, the Portuguese giants in La Liga etc. But then I feel guilty about what it would leave behind. That would make the Champions League more competitive as well as it would allow those clubs to compete again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 8:36:04 GMT
It’s something that’s certainly discussed more than you’d think. I know the KNVB and RBFA discussed a potential Bene League around Euro 2000. Retaining domestic cups but having a top flight where teams from both countries can get promoted into. Now this works with two feeder countries but beyond that the system would get more complex and probably end up like the current mess that is the NL Playoff system. At the moment in Central Europe, I don’t think there’s currently an appetite for it, the league would be nearly 30 years behind the PL in establishment and the finances would be problematic. The launching of UEFA’s third club competition is basically a way of placating clubs like the ones you’ve mentioned. I do think going forward joining leagues together would be beneficial for both “domestic” leagues and clubs in European competition. Just not as large as you’ve said. Think a Swedish/Danish League, Baltic League, Austro-Hungarian League, Czechoslovakian League, these sorts of things. OK - that's interesting. It just seems like an obvious way to go.
I mean people talk about the sanctity of national leagues but many of them are not as old as people think they are and there are quite a lot of weird exceptions to strict national boundaries anyway. In fact I'd say it's more the norm than not. With travel so easy between so many of these countries it just seems like a way or pooling resources that would be beneficial. I don't think it would have a huge transformative effect or anything - the big leagues are so dominant that you're not going to suddently compete with them. But it might create a bit of buzz.
On the other hand you could see a problem for the Bohemian FC's of this world in that scenario because they would end up permanently cut off from those big games. So, I guess I'm after whether you think on balance it would be good for the game or not?
As a neutral who is increasingly fed up with the nonsense of top level football because I actually think it's now too easy for the big clubs who are so comfortable in their league status I wouldn't mind seeing this on a grand scale just to shake things up a it. It's an 'in for a penny in for a pound argument'. If you're going to have a money obsessed top level game then at least go the whole hog make it more competitive by allowing all massive clubs the chance to compete and maximise their potential. So, in all honesty, I'd be up for Rangers and Celtic in the Premier League, the Dutch giants in the Bundesliga, the Portuguese giants in La Liga etc. But then I feel guilty about what it would leave behind. That would make the Champions League more competitive as well as it would allow those clubs to compete again.
Bundesliga for me is too strong to need that, when you consider giants like HSV, FC Koeln, Dynamo Dresden, Kaiserslautern & 1860 were outside the top flight this season. It's also only an 18 team league. Rangers and Celtic would benefit more from a North Sea League (Scotland, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway & Sweden), the infrastructure around helping away fans attend just isn't there yet though and would be miles off. |
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on May 27, 2019 10:22:07 GMT
Slight tangent. I will be going to the pub tonight to watch Union Berlin / Stuttgart 2nd leg play-off final. Union have never played in the top flight. Don't know if away goals count (2-2 in Stuttgart, probably not) but Union will be strong favourites with home advantage. Atmosphere at the Alte Forsterei will be off the scale.
EISERN UNION!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 11:34:28 GMT
Slight tangent. I will be going to the pub tonight to watch Union Berlin / Stuttgart 2nd leg play-off final. Union have never played in the top flight. Don't know if away goals count (2-2 in Stuttgart, probably not) but Union will be strong favourites with home advantage. Atmosphere at the Alte Forsterei will be off the scale. EISERN UNION! Got a few Union supporting mates, great club and fantastic stadium pretty much rebuilt by their supporters. Visited in April 2017...
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on May 28, 2019 12:17:08 GMT
Slight tangent. I will be going to the pub tonight to watch Union Berlin / Stuttgart 2nd leg play-off final. Union have never played in the top flight. Don't know if away goals count (2-2 in Stuttgart, probably not) but Union will be strong favourites with home advantage. Atmosphere at the Alte Forsterei will be off the scale. EISERN UNION! Got a few Union supporting mates, great club and fantastic stadium pretty much rebuilt by their supporters. Visited in April 2017...
A nail-biting 90 minutes... Outplayed 1st half, back into it 2nd half, and 0-0 (through on away goals) secures their place in the Bundesliga. So my second side (Orient) got promoted as did my German side. And the Gas avoided relegation. I'll take that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 12:27:20 GMT
Got a few Union supporting mates, great club and fantastic stadium pretty much rebuilt by their supporters. Visited in April 2017...
A nail-biting 90 minutes... Outplayed 1st half, back into it 2nd half, and 0-0 (through on away goals) secures their place in the Bundesliga. So my second side (Orient) got promoted as did my German side. And the Gas avoided relegation. I'll take that. Over the two legs they deserved it, Zierler made a pair of belting saves first leg to keep it 2-2. Union had a touch of luck with the VAR freekick but easily came closed to scoring last night. Will be interesting to see how they get on next season. Bundesliga 2 looks mad next season! |
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on May 31, 2019 9:46:35 GMT
A nail-biting 90 minutes... Outplayed 1st half, back into it 2nd half, and 0-0 (through on away goals) secures their place in the Bundesliga. So my second side (Orient) got promoted as did my German side. And the Gas avoided relegation. I'll take that. Over the two legs they deserved it, Zierler made a pair of belting saves first leg to keep it 2-2. Union had a touch of luck with the VAR freekick but easily came closed to scoring last night. Will be interesting to see how they get on next season. Bundesliga 2 looks mad next season! Was watching in the Crown St Nicks market with no commentary / sound. Head in the hands moment when Stuttgart 'scored'. Union didn't even complain too much. Then on 2nd showing saw that Stuttgart player about 3 yards off-side and directly in line with the free-kick. 100% correct VAR decision. Cue much celebration. It's cheaper for me to fly to Berlin from Stansted (£44 return) than get the train from Paddington to Bristol (£61.40 return) - (randomly selected selected Sep 7th return Sep 8th). Madness. Better brush up on my German for next season. Ich weise das leben zu geniessen. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 10:01:59 GMT
One for any tickers, Spurs are playing Inter at the new White Hart Lane on Sunday the 4th of August. Tickets are £25 so a lot cheaper than PL games and potentially Spurs first home game after becoming European Champions. Might be worth getting a ticket before a potential rush after tomorrow night...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2019 11:08:31 GMT
New season, new me! Off to Barry Town United vs Cliftonville in the Europa League on Thursday.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Jun 25, 2019 17:40:02 GMT
Trying to make sure I am working in Oswestry the week after next for TNS in the Champions League.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2019 10:02:57 GMT
New season, new me! Off to Barry Town United vs Cliftonville in the Europa League on Thursday. Both teams seemed well off the pace for this, personally I'd mirror what they do in the Women's Champions League qualifers by having a group of four played in one location over a week. Three years ago Cardiff Met women hosted with games at their campus ground and Jenner Park.
Speaking of Cardiff Met, second trip to Leckwith this Thursday to watch the men. Currently 1-0 down after the first leg in Luxembourg to Progrès Niederkorn. Finely poised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 9:03:59 GMT
New season, new me! Off to Barry Town United vs Cliftonville in the Europa League on Thursday. Both teams seemed well off the pace for this, personally I'd mirror what they do in the Women's Champions League qualifers by having a group of four played in one location over a week. Three years ago Cardiff Met women hosted with games at their campus ground and Jenner Park.
Speaking of Cardiff Met, second trip to Leckwith this Thursday to watch the men. Currently 1-0 down after the first leg in Luxembourg to Progrès Niederkorn. Finely poised.
This was a fun one last night. Met scored in the second minute to draw level on aggregate and despite defending deep for much of the match (against a team with a near €3m budget and 24 pros) broke and won themselves a penalty which they converted with just over 20 to go. Progrès went ahead by means of away goals five minutes later with a well worked goal. Met threw the kitchen sink at Progrès in the last 10 but couldn't quite score. The final whistle was met with scenes nobody wants to see (bar everyone) as Progrès Progrès'd in a fiery encounter. |
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Jul 5, 2019 19:33:33 GMT
Both teams seemed well off the pace for this, personally I'd mirror what they do in the Women's Champions League qualifers by having a group of four played in one location over a week. Three years ago Cardiff Met women hosted with games at their campus ground and Jenner Park.
Speaking of Cardiff Met, second trip to Leckwith this Thursday to watch the men. Currently 1-0 down after the first leg in Luxembourg to Progrès Niederkorn. Finely poised.
This was a fun one last night. Met scored in the second minute to draw level on aggregate and despite defending deep for much of the match (against a team with a near €3m budget and 24 pros) broke and won themselves a penalty which they converted with just over 20 to go. Progrès went ahead by means of away goals five minutes later with a well worked goal. Met threw the kitchen sink at Progrès in the last 10 but couldn't quite score. The final whistle was met with scenes nobody wants to see (bar everyone) as Progrès Progrès'd in a fiery encounter. Progres are my favourite ever Luxembourgian side  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 23:42:47 GMT
This was a fun one last night. Met scored in the second minute to draw level on aggregate and despite defending deep for much of the match (against a team with a near €3m budget and 24 pros) broke and won themselves a penalty which they converted with just over 20 to go. Progrès went ahead by means of away goals five minutes later with a well worked goal. Met threw the kitchen sink at Progrès in the last 10 but couldn't quite score. The final whistle was met with scenes nobody wants to see (bar everyone) as Progrès Progrès'd in a fiery encounter. Progres are my favourite ever Luxembourgian side Mad that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 20:28:33 GMT
Off to Spurs tomorrow but more importantly plotting has started for a trip to Argentina and Uruguay. Looking to do the likes of Boca, River and Penarol. Nothing firm yet but it is happening which, is exciting.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Aug 4, 2019 8:43:55 GMT
Off to Spurs tomorrow but more importantly plotting has started for a trip to Argentina and Uruguay. Looking to do the likes of Boca, River and Penarol. Nothing firm yet but it is happening which, is exciting. Now I am envious. I will do Spurs at some point but I have always wanted to visit South America. My dad lived there for a bit after the war, he was in the navy and back then if you fell ill you had to try and get treatment locally and then just wait for the next time the ship visited that port again! Still, Dorking Wanderers v Hemel Hampstead Town for me on Tuesday |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 18:57:48 GMT
Well, that’s the best stadium I’ve ever been too. Admittedly not my favourite but by far the best. Unreal.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Aug 4, 2019 19:42:11 GMT
Well, that’s the best stadium I’ve ever been too. Admittedly not my favourite but by far the best. Unreal. Are you talking about my impending visit to Dorking ? |
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 5, 2019 9:31:23 GMT
Well, that’s the best stadium I’ve ever been too. Admittedly not my favourite but by far the best. Unreal. All largely bought and paid for by Spurs supporters... but I've only heard positive things about "The New Stadium", which is as I'm sure you know, is an anagram of West Ham United. |
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