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Post by badbloodash on Jan 20, 2015 20:07:26 GMT
Is this what got Leeds into trouble, using future sales now? and one of the reasons Rangers are in a pickle now. Oh and avoiding national insurance and income tax
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Post by gashead01 on Jan 20, 2015 20:27:34 GMT
Well we all knew that Sainsburys weren't going to pay up without a big fight and so it is now proven. The good news however though is that we have planning permission for a fantastic new stadium that help can propel the club to a level we have never before attained. Clearly we are going to need to seek an alternative way of raising funds. When other clubs have been looking to raise substantial funds to redevelop or develop stadiums one of the ways they have looked to raise funds is to sell long term season tickets with attaching membership privileges. Now, I know that we don’t have as many active fans as some of the big clubs who have embraced this model but nevertheless there could be sufficient strength of support to raise a very significant sum. For example:- West Stand season tickets this year were £410 at the discounted price, so if we allow for inflation of 3%pa, someone who was to buy such a ticket for 20 years the cost would be £11,000. So let’s think in terms of selling 20 year tickets that are transferable being offered at 60% of that price for the best seats in the new stadium with cup games, membership of a members bar and other benefits such as a car park pass being thrown in (£300 flat rate per season). The target market for these tickets would of course be the existing support base and businesses some of whom we will already have a close relationship with. We could work together with a finance company to help those supporters who would like to take advantage of the offer but don’t have the capital to do so. If 2,500 of these tickets were sold this would raise £15,000,000 which is about half of the stadium cost. This together with reduced Mem Sale money plus possible compensation from Sainsburys and maybe new external investment that is conditional on the stadium being built could get this plan right back on the rails. It’s time for Plan B. It’s time for some “Blue Sky” thinking.
similar to what Wembley done with club Wembley... but that's done over 10 years and on a monthly bases, and not a lump sum.
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Post by laughinggas on Jan 21, 2015 10:30:41 GMT
Is there anything in plans and permissions for concerts and things?
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jan 21, 2015 12:48:51 GMT
I think the OP is confusing debentures & long term season tickets.
In sport terms a debenture offers the holders the right to buy tickets, at face value, for all events at a specific stadium for a specific period ie the holders get first dibs on all tickets. This works well in raising development funds for venues that have events that are, almost, guaranteed to sell out as such they have been used to raise funds for developments at Twickenham & the Millennium Stadium. Not sure they would be of any use at UWE unless we were on the brink of premiership football (no laughing at the back).
Long term season tickets (Glos CCC do something similar i believe) would be sold in our case by BRFC 1883 Ltd, should that company go into administration then future rights to season tickets will become null & void (you would effectively, at best, be an unsecured creditor) as the right to sell season tickets would pass to the new company.
I'm not sure about Leeds but this didn't cause the collapse of Rangers, what they did was to borrow money & guarantee repayment from future sales of season tickets. The only happy outcome of this (Rex will think different) is that the lending company seems to have caught a cold on this deal.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jan 21, 2015 14:39:14 GMT
I think the OP is confusing debentures & long term season tickets. In sport terms a debenture offers the holders the right to buy tickets, at face value, for all events at a specific stadium for a specific period ie the holders get first dibs on all tickets. This works well in raising development funds for venues that have events that are, almost, guaranteed to sell out as such they have been used to raise funds for developments at Twickenham & the Millennium Stadium. Not sure they would be of any use at UWE unless we were on the brink of premiership football (no laughing at the back). Long term season tickets (Glos CCC do something similar i believe) would be sold in our case by BRFC 1883 Ltd, should that company go into administration then future rights to season tickets will become null & void (you would effectively, at best, be an unsecured creditor) as the right to sell season tickets would pass to the new company. I'm not sure about Leeds but this didn't cause the collapse of Rangers, what they did was to borrow money & guarantee repayment from future sales of season tickets. The only happy outcome of this (Rex will think different) is that the lending company seems to have caught a cold on this deal. Yes thanks for clarifying the definition of debenture CGH, I remember Arsenal using a debenture scheme to redevelop the old North Bank at Highbury into all seater and I remember thinking at the time how can it be that they were simply asking people to buy a debenture if they wanted to guarantee to be able to buy tickets for the new stand.. It sounded a ridiculous idea and almost contemptible. But their fans snapped them up. So I should know the difference between a debenture and long term season ticket and yes as you correctly point out it is the idea of long term season tickets that I am proposing.
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Post by mancgas has left the building on Jan 22, 2015 10:54:48 GMT
We tried this idea around 8-10 years ago, albeit for shorter periods than envisaged here. Cant remember if it was a public offering or just something offered to Presidents club members. I'm fairly certain a couple of friends bought them.
It flopped. Unless the money is held in a client account and payable to the club each year then there is great risk to the fan. If its held in a client account its of no use in building a stadium.
People realised that if the FC went tits up, you lost your rights to future season tickets and most ended their interest after asking this question.
People do pay up front for boxes, some 10 years up front I believe, and again I'm fairly certain in terms of access there is no guarantee, but cant remember if the money is held in some form of client account and dripped in each year, or whether the same loss of access and cash applies. Will ask the box owners next time I see them.
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Post by fanatical on Jan 22, 2015 12:43:43 GMT
One person's negativity is another person's realism. I commend anyone who wants to try something and has an idea but BRISA and the Gas Trust failed thanks to widespread apathy, and the last time the club asked the fans for cash, the Share Scheme, is well documented. The issue for me with 20 year debentures is that you're (a) potentially starving the club of future income if they spend every penny as is comes in on the UWE, and you're investing for 20 years in a management team that has failed to take advantage of rare successes and has led the business to almost unprecedented failure. Problem for me with the share scheme was I would spend my money and I wouldn't actually own the shares...they would be held by the Supporters Club. If I bought them I wanted to own them. I wrote to the club asking if I could buy shares direct (as told to when I queried this fact with David Brain) but I received no response.When did anyone ever get a reply when writing to the club?
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