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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jan 20, 2015 13:06:51 GMT
Well we all knew that Sainsburys weren't going to pay up without a big fight and so it is now proven. The good news however though is that we have planning permission for a fantastic new stadium that help can propel the club to a level we have never before attained. Clearly we are going to need to seek an alternative way of raising funds. When other clubs have been looking to raise substantial funds to redevelop or develop stadiums one of the ways they have looked to raise funds is to sell long term season tickets with attaching membership privileges. Now, I know that we don’t have as many active fans as some of the big clubs who have embraced this model but nevertheless there could be sufficient strength of support to raise a very significant sum. For example:- West Stand season tickets this year were £410 at the discounted price, so if we allow for inflation of 3%pa, someone who was to buy such a ticket for 20 years the cost would be £11,000. So let’s think in terms of selling 20 year tickets that are transferable being offered at 60% of that price for the best seats in the new stadium with cup games, membership of a members bar and other benefits such as a car park pass being thrown in (£300 flat rate per season). The target market for these tickets would of course be the existing support base and businesses some of whom we will already have a close relationship with. We could work together with a finance company to help those supporters who would like to take advantage of the offer but don’t have the capital to do so. If 2,500 of these tickets were sold this would raise £15,000,000 which is about half of the stadium cost. This together with reduced Mem Sale money plus possible compensation from Sainsburys and maybe new external investment that is conditional on the stadium being built could get this plan right back on the rails. It’s time for Plan B. It’s time for some “Blue Sky” thinking.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862 
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 20, 2015 13:14:53 GMT
Ideas are great so keep them coming, but you ain't ever going to sell 2,500 of those tickets - we don't even sell that many season tickets, do we? I reckon you would sell about 100 of them. Not many people have got 6 grand lying about.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 13:16:21 GMT
More like deep pocket thinking but i like the idea !
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Post by alftimebovril on Jan 20, 2015 13:19:21 GMT
This would then reduce our gate receipts for the next 20 years...could work though
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jan 20, 2015 13:27:00 GMT
Ideas are great so keep them coming, but you ain't ever going to sell 2,500 of those tickets - we don't even sell that many season tickets, do we? I reckon you would sell about 100 of them. Not many people have got 6 grand lying about. Hence the idea of working with a finance company for those that don't have the money to outlay at once. It is less than what a lot of regular folk will spend on a car and I reckon a lot of people care more about Rovers than their car. Besides they would have money in their pocket to afford a better car if they don't have any football costs for 20 years. It would need to be well marketed! |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 13:29:21 GMT
Ideas are great so keep them coming, but you ain't ever going to sell 2,500 of those tickets - we don't even sell that many season tickets, do we? I reckon you would sell about 100 of them. Not many people have got 6 grand lying about. Hence the idea of working with a finance company for those that don't have the money to outlay at once. It is less than what a lot of regular folk will spend on a car and I reckon a lot of people care more about Rovers than their car. Besides they would have money in their pocket to afford a better car if they don't have any football costs for 20 years. It would need to be well marketed! Maybe we can ask Hargraves lansdown to help with the funding...  |
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Jan 20, 2015 13:37:39 GMT
A good positive idea. I applaud that approach.
I would provide the funds on one condition. Change of regime as I don't want another 20 years of decline.
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Post by matealotblue on Jan 20, 2015 13:43:41 GMT
Isn't there a similar scheme in place at Wimbledon (Tennis that is!)
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aghast
David Williams
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 395
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Post by aghast on Jan 20, 2015 14:28:58 GMT
Well we all knew that Sainsburys weren't going to pay up without a big fight and so it is now proven. The good news however though is that we have planning permission for a fantastic new stadium that help can propel the club to a level we have never before attained It’s time for Plan B. It’s time for some “Blue Sky” thinking.
I hope we don't adopt any "Sky Blue" thinking. Like Coventry City, who sold a perfectly good stadium (Highfield Road) for housing, became tenants of the council, and who now have not a penny left.  |
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jan 20, 2015 14:39:21 GMT
I'm not convinced it would raise the neccesary income at a club like Rovers but let's just assume for a moment it could. Such a scheme might just work if you had a board who had the confidence and support of the whole fanbase and a record of delivering on and off the pitch or if it promised to offer some genuine accountability over the ruinning of the club. Based on the curret record, we do not have that. So I would say that even if I had the money I would not be prepared to make a 20 year investment that relied on the current board showing sufficiently competent management for us a)to be playing at a decent standard of football and b)still existing after 20 years. Too risky an investment in a set of people who have not shown they can deliver either on pitch success or day to day financial stability. The car comparison is a flawed one because most people who buy cars need them and will therefore do quite a lot of research and get the best one to fit their needs as an investment. If anyone followed that kind of rational process when investing in something like Rovers they would keep their money in their pocket. What people would be investing in here would be hope.
This is where the whole argument of 'it's their club and they can do what they like with it' falls down. Because when it comes down to it the club can only be financially viable because of the irrational emotional association between the supporters and the club. It does not work as an ordinary form of business based on rational calculations - because if we were to make the kind of decision we make when buying other goods to buying what Rovers have to offer then very few would take it up. You can currently get a higher quality product down the road for not very much more money - you can get a much higher quality product (though not as good an experience depending on your point of view) in the comfort of your own home for variations on that cost etc. So there is a limit to where that thinking can take you. If a fans trust offerred a debenture people might go for it because they'd feel part of the process; they also might go for it if they felt an investment was going into the club from rich owners who would take the club forward. But from a board that's overseen record losses, disasterous onfield collapse and alienated large tracts of the fanbase I think it's pie in the sky.
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Post by dingdonggad on Jan 20, 2015 14:47:52 GMT
I'm not convinced it would raise the neccesary income at a club like Rovers but let's just assume for a moment it could. Such a scheme might just work if you had a board who had the confidence and support of the whole fanbase and a record of delivering on and off the pitch or if it promised to offer some genuine accountability over the ruinning of the club. Based on the curret record, we do not have that. So I would say that even if I had the money I would not be prepared to make a 20 year investment that relied on the current board showing sufficiently competent management for us a)to be playing at a decent standard of football and b)still existing after 20 years. Too risky an investment in a set of people who have not shown they can deliver either on pitch success or day to day financial stability. The car comparison is a flawed one because most people who buy cars need them and will therefore do quite a lot of research and get the best one to fit their needs as an investment. If anyone followed that kind of rational process when investing in something like Rovers they would keep their money in their pocket. What people would be investing in here would be hope. This is where the whole argument of 'it's their club and they can do what they like with it' falls down. Because when it comes down to it the club can only be financially viable because of the irrational emotional association between the supporters and the club. It does not work as an ordinary form of business based on rational calculations - because if we were to make the kind of decision we make when buying other goods to buying what Rovers have to offer then very few would take it up. You can currently get a higher quality product down the road for not very much more money - you can get a much higher quality product (though not as good an experience depending on your point of view) in the comfort of your own home for variations on that cost etc. So there is a limit to where that thinking can take you. If a fans trust offerred a debenture people might go for it because they'd feel part of the process; they also might go for it if they felt an investment was going into the club from rich owners who would take the club forward. But from a board that's overseen record losses, disasterous onfield collapse and alienated large tracts of the fanbase I think it's pie in the sky. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 14:48:15 GMT
Would you really trust them with your money?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 20, 2015 14:48:46 GMT
Ideas are great so keep them coming, but you ain't ever going to sell 2,500 of those tickets - we don't even sell that many season tickets, do we? I reckon you would sell about 100 of them. Not many people have got 6 grand lying about. Hence the idea of working with a finance company for those that don't have the money to outlay at once. It is less than what a lot of regular folk will spend on a car and I reckon a lot of people care more about Rovers than their car. Besides they would have money in their pocket to afford a better car if they don't have any football costs for 20 years. It would need to be well marketed! So you want people to get 6 grand into debt, with nothing to show for it but a promise? What happens if the club folds?
Interest rate on an unsecured 6k loan from a finance company you're looking at what, 10% apr? So the fellow is paying more in annual interest than he would have spent on the season ticket?
It would have to be very well marketed....
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Post by laughinggas on Jan 20, 2015 14:52:04 GMT
Is this what got Leeds into trouble, using future sales now?
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Post by dingdonggad on Jan 20, 2015 14:54:28 GMT
Could be one idea to think off.
But they have to act quick as from April.
The new pension changes will give 55 & over access to aquire ££££ thousands of their pension pot.
They will spend it somewhere !
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 14:55:14 GMT
Is this what got Leeds into trouble, using future sales now? and one of the reasons Rangers are in a pickle now. |
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jan 20, 2015 16:54:40 GMT
I'm not convinced it would raise the neccesary income at a club like Rovers but let's just assume for a moment it could. Such a scheme might just work if you had a board who had the confidence and support of the whole fanbase and a record of delivering on and off the pitch or if it promised to offer some genuine accountability over the ruinning of the club. Based on the curret record, we do not have that. So I would say that even if I had the money I would not be prepared to make a 20 year investment that relied on the current board showing sufficiently competent management for us a)to be playing at a decent standard of football and b)still existing after 20 years. Too risky an investment in a set of people who have not shown they can deliver either on pitch success or day to day financial stability. The car comparison is a flawed one because most people who buy cars need them and will therefore do quite a lot of research and get the best one to fit their needs as an investment. If anyone followed that kind of rational process when investing in something like Rovers they would keep their money in their pocket. What people would be investing in here would be hope. This is where the whole argument of 'it's their club and they can do what they like with it' falls down. Because when it comes down to it the club can only be financially viable because of the irrational emotional association between the supporters and the club. It does not work as an ordinary form of business based on rational calculations - because if we were to make the kind of decision we make when buying other goods to buying what Rovers have to offer then very few would take it up. You can currently get a higher quality product down the road for not very much more money - you can get a much higher quality product (though not as good an experience depending on your point of view) in the comfort of your own home for variations on that cost etc. So there is a limit to where that thinking can take you. If a fans trust offerred a debenture people might go for it because they'd feel part of the process; they also might go for it if they felt an investment was going into the club from rich owners who would take the club forward. But from a board that's overseen record losses, disasterous onfield collapse and alienated large tracts of the fanbase I think it's pie in the sky. You make some very good points Irish Rover and of course we all know that our relationship with our football club is different than anything else in life. In fact we are far more likely to change almost anything else in our lives before we change our football club. That's because we are already shareholders in our club. Emotional shareholders.
Hence why the idea could work. This might be a good time for the fans to show initiative and if that initiative is well coordinated and energised it could provide the fans with a lot of power in negotiating the terms of how the help was going to be provided. It could lead to a very powerful fans trust or supporters club that have real power and influence over how the club is run. There is currently a feeling of apathy and helplessness amongst the support but it could be the time for the fans to rise up and seize the moment. We have a choice really, do nothing because we believe there is nothing we can do that will make any difference or we can do something with the intent and belief that we will make a difference. There seem to be more negative responses than positive in this thread and that is disappointing because we have a lot of power if we can unite. This club has a massive and passionate support base, lets get mobile.
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dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 20, 2015 17:19:08 GMT
One person's negativity is another person's realism.
I commend anyone who wants to try something and has an idea but BRISA and the Gas Trust failed thanks to widespread apathy, and the last time the club asked the fans for cash, the Share Scheme, is well documented.
The issue for me with 20 year debentures is that you're (a) potentially starving the club of future income if they spend every penny as is comes in on the UWE, and you're investing for 20 years in a management team that has failed to take advantage of rare successes and has led the business to almost unprecedented failure.
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crater
Joined: June 2014
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Post by crater on Jan 20, 2015 18:16:22 GMT
One person's negativity is another person's realism. I commend anyone who wants to try something and has an idea but BRISA and the Gas Trust failed thanks to widespread apathy, and the last time the club asked the fans for cash, the Share Scheme, is well documented. The issue for me with 20 year debentures is that you're (a) potentially starving the club of future income if they spend every penny as is comes in on the UWE, and you're investing for 20 years in a management team that has failed to take advantage of rare successes and has led the business to almost unprecedented failure. Problem for me with the share scheme was I would spend my money and I wouldn't actually own the shares...they would be held by the Supporters Club. If I bought them I wanted to own them. I wrote to the club asking if I could buy shares direct (as told to when I queried this fact with David Brain) but I received no response. |
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jan 20, 2015 19:48:22 GMT
One person's negativity is another person's realism. I commend anyone who wants to try something and has an idea but BRISA and the Gas Trust failed thanks to widespread apathy, and the last time the club asked the fans for cash, the Share Scheme, is well documented. The issue for me with 20 year debentures is that you're (a) potentially starving the club of future income if they spend every penny as is comes in on the UWE, and you're investing for 20 years in a management team that has failed to take advantage of rare successes and has led the business to almost unprecedented failure. Problem for me with the share scheme was I would spend my money and I wouldn't actually own the shares...they would be held by the Supporters Club. If I bought them I wanted to own them. I wrote to the club asking if I could buy shares direct (as told to when I queried this fact with David Brain) but I received no response. I agree, the share sale scheme wasn't a great deal for either the supporters who invested because it gave them no individual rights or the supporters club who had to pay an inflated price invented by the board that gave nothing back other than puppet representation on the board. Added to that there was no focus about how the money raised would be used. This idea I think has greater attraction because it is absolutely clear what the money will be used for. It will also give each supporter real tangible benefits often using money that they would have spent on the club in any case. |
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