c13
Rickie Lambert
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 424
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Post by c13 on Jan 9, 2015 8:38:19 GMT
You people love to point out that the board is clueless about planning yet someone comes asking a question about next season and you fly off the handle crying "how dare you you doom merchant the players read this arrrrrr"
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Post by Blue Mist on Jan 9, 2015 11:39:12 GMT
You can't buy team spirit but you can carefully add to it. Add to it to much or too quickly and you'll lose it.
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strung out
Administrator
Paul Hardyman
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 758
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Post by strung out on Jan 9, 2015 12:37:49 GMT
Is there such a thing as too much team spirit? What would happen if we had an overdose of team spirit?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 12:47:39 GMT
Is there such a thing as too much team spirit? What would happen if we had an overdose of team spirit? You get gout.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 9, 2015 13:13:44 GMT
What a great way to undermine the team. Are we winning so many games that some of you wish to put doubt in several minds as to should they be retained?. Some players do read these threads for god sake. Better still, if the sh*t go up should they keep the team or get new players in? I say get 15 or 16 new ones in. That should sap the confidence of any that read the forum. Yet another person telling people what they should or should not talk about. Who the hell do you think you are pal? Should we only post motivational posters (with cats in them) in case a fragile player comes by?
Any player with any sense will already be thinking about his future.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jan 9, 2015 13:15:28 GMT
Mods - can you merge this thread with 'counting your chickens' thread? This Don't worry - nothing can go wrong now. I also don't understand Tote's reaction to this; first of all any player that reads fan message boards is a masochist, secondly it wasn't a post saying let's get rid of them. It was a perfectly reasonable question really. Forums are for fans to discuss and debate with each other - that is all. They are not there to provide additional support for the club and players although they can do at times; I think they act as a kind of safety valve to allow fans to vent frustrations and stay in touch with other fans there's nothing more to it than that. On this subject I'd say that he could do worse than following Trollope's initial blueprint when we went up to League 1 (that he subsequently got away from which cost us). Keep the basic core of the side together as far as possible while trying to make improvements in the quality of the squad at the fringes. Be ruthless with people who you don't think are up to the standard but try where possible to keep the team together. There is something to be said for having a number of players for whom this is the biggest moment of their careers. So someone like Sinclair may not strictly be League standard and the only way he's likely to get there is to get promoted with someone but surely he's going to give it absolutely everything if he does. So having a few guys like that is really worth it and having a core that know and like each other helps too. You need to have the Craig Hinton's etc. Motivation matters a lot. A guy who is playing at what he perceives as the highest standard of his career or who thinks he can go higher will run through walls for you; a guy who's had that moment may struggle to find that same passion. Trollope got half of that right by mostly keeping a core of players together and trying to add to them. He got the recruitment side completely wrong; it wasn't that we were signing bad players but we were signing players who had already topped out their careers and giving them long term contracts which automatically put them in a comfort zone instead of guys who were going to bust a gut to carve out a career for themselves. Subsequent managers were even worse with this. That's the lesson - keep the core together and sign hungry players with something to prove. More fun to watch too.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 9, 2015 13:25:40 GMT
Don't worry - nothing can go wrong now. I also don't understand Tote's reaction to this; first of all any player that reads fan message boards is a masochist, secondly it wasn't a post saying let's get rid of them. It was a perfectly reasonable question really. Forums are for fans to discuss and debate with each other - that is all. They are not there to provide additional support for the club and players although they can do at times; I think they act as a kind of safety valve to allow fans to vent frustrations and stay in touch with other fans there's nothing more to it than that. On this subject I'd say that he could do worse than following Trollope's initial blueprint when we went up to League 1 (that he subsequently got away from which cost us). Keep the basic core of the side together as far as possible while trying to make improvements in the quality of the squad at the fringes. Be ruthless with people who you don't think are up to the standard but try where possible to keep the team together. There is something to be said for having a number of players for whom this is the biggest moment of their careers. So someone like Sinclair may not strictly be League standard and the only way he's likely to get there is to get promoted with someone but surely he's going to give it absolutely everything if he does. So having a few guys like that is really worth it and having a core that know and like each other helps too. You need to have the Craig Hinton's etc. Motivation matters a lot. A guy who is playing at what he perceives as the highest standard of his career or who thinks he can go higher will run through walls for you; a guy who's had that moment may struggle to find that same passion. Trollope got half of that right by mostly keeping a core of players together and trying to add to them. He got the recruitment side completely wrong; it wasn't that we were signing bad players but we were signing players who had already topped out their careers and giving them long term contracts which automatically put them in a comfort zone instead of guys who were going to bust a gut to carve out a career for themselves. Subsequent managers were even worse with this. That's the lesson - keep the core together and sign hungry players with something to prove. More fun to watch too. Totally agree, and qualitatively at least, that seems to be what works out best. Much better than signing whole new teams a la QPR or Derby.
Agree with your last comment about it being fun to watch too - I don't follow Rovers because I want to see the best football in the world, I follow them because I enjoy the story - I like seeing players, and teams, improve over time. That's also why I coach.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 14:04:49 GMT
... What would we do with our squad, maintain it and look for pinpoint signings or keep a handful, get rid of the rest and build from scratch? We have a squad that is mostly filled with hardworking players who seem to understand each other well, and we all know team chemistry is vital, but are them good enough (or young enough) to play League football? Are we better off betting on strong teamwork and tactical discipline or building a squad that doesn't "reek" of Conference football? Well this team is certainly better than the one we had last season that got us relegated. We have a winning mentality that we haven't seen in years, I am sure if we did go up the momentum would carry on and we would have maybe our best ever season at the higher level. Over the last couple of days I've been following the disturbing events in France so reading this post has really lifted my mood, thank you. I think you're a complete rose tinter but thanks anyway.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 14:06:47 GMT
I firmly believe that last season's squad shouldn't have been relegated. Correct, far too much quality, it was all about lack of motivation and poor management.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jan 9, 2015 14:50:25 GMT
Don't worry - nothing can go wrong now. I also don't understand Tote's reaction to this; first of all any player that reads fan message boards is a masochist, secondly it wasn't a post saying let's get rid of them. It was a perfectly reasonable question really. Forums are for fans to discuss and debate with each other - that is all. They are not there to provide additional support for the club and players although they can do at times; I think they act as a kind of safety valve to allow fans to vent frustrations and stay in touch with other fans there's nothing more to it than that. On this subject I'd say that he could do worse than following Trollope's initial blueprint when we went up to League 1 (that he subsequently got away from which cost us). Keep the basic core of the side together as far as possible while trying to make improvements in the quality of the squad at the fringes. Be ruthless with people who you don't think are up to the standard but try where possible to keep the team together. There is something to be said for having a number of players for whom this is the biggest moment of their careers. So someone like Sinclair may not strictly be League standard and the only way he's likely to get there is to get promoted with someone but surely he's going to give it absolutely everything if he does. So having a few guys like that is really worth it and having a core that know and like each other helps too. You need to have the Craig Hinton's etc. Motivation matters a lot. A guy who is playing at what he perceives as the highest standard of his career or who thinks he can go higher will run through walls for you; a guy who's had that moment may struggle to find that same passion. Trollope got half of that right by mostly keeping a core of players together and trying to add to them. He got the recruitment side completely wrong; it wasn't that we were signing bad players but we were signing players who had already topped out their careers and giving them long term contracts which automatically put them in a comfort zone instead of guys who were going to bust a gut to carve out a career for themselves. Subsequent managers were even worse with this. That's the lesson - keep the core together and sign hungry players with something to prove. More fun to watch too. Pretty much agree with all of that, though I do still think some people are 'counting the chickens'. But bloody hell suggesting that Stuart Sinclair may not be league standard, people will be up for lynching you for that. You do realise he's a DC signing?
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Jan 9, 2015 15:19:10 GMT
Is there such a thing as too much team spirit? What would happen if we had an overdose of team spirit? I've always believed that Don Revie gave Leeds United too much team spirit. It was a very successful formula for him and the team, but not pretty to watch on occasions.
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dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 872
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 9, 2015 15:31:14 GMT
I firmly believe that last season's squad shouldn't have been relegated. Based on ability, I agree. Shows how rotten most of their attitudes were.
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LPGas
Stuart Taylor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,240
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Post by LPGas on Jan 9, 2015 16:43:18 GMT
Don't worry - nothing can go wrong now. I also don't understand Tote's reaction to this; first of all any player that reads fan message boards is a masochist, secondly it wasn't a post saying let's get rid of them. It was a perfectly reasonable question really. Forums are for fans to discuss and debate with each other - that is all. They are not there to provide additional support for the club and players although they can do at times; I think they act as a kind of safety valve to allow fans to vent frustrations and stay in touch with other fans there's nothing more to it than that. On this subject I'd say that he could do worse than following Trollope's initial blueprint when we went up to League 1 (that he subsequently got away from which cost us). Keep the basic core of the side together as far as possible while trying to make improvements in the quality of the squad at the fringes. Be ruthless with people who you don't think are up to the standard but try where possible to keep the team together. There is something to be said for having a number of players for whom this is the biggest moment of their careers. So someone like Sinclair may not strictly be League standard and the only way he's likely to get there is to get promoted with someone but surely he's going to give it absolutely everything if he does. So having a few guys like that is really worth it and having a core that know and like each other helps too. You need to have the Craig Hinton's etc. Motivation matters a lot. A guy who is playing at what he perceives as the highest standard of his career or who thinks he can go higher will run through walls for you; a guy who's had that moment may struggle to find that same passion. Trollope got half of that right by mostly keeping a core of players together and trying to add to them. He got the recruitment side completely wrong; it wasn't that we were signing bad players but we were signing players who had already topped out their careers and giving them long term contracts which automatically put them in a comfort zone instead of guys who were going to bust a gut to carve out a career for themselves. Subsequent managers were even worse with this. That's the lesson - keep the core together and sign hungry players with something to prove. More fun to watch too. It is also true that you do this when you get relegated. On the day we went down to Division 2 I met Geoff Dunford in the car park and he said, "well you wont see that team again, he (Mr Higgs is going to get rid of all of them), and that was the big mistake. He should have given the job to Stuart Cambell and Craig Hinton, we'd be playing near the Teds if he had done that. The idea that you can get rid of a complete team, appoint a big mouth idiot who then signs all the players no one else wants, and expect promotion was a big mistake, and if he was to do the same on promotion then that would be an even worse mistake.
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Post by Somerset Blue on Jan 9, 2015 16:47:07 GMT
I think that League two is a poor standard....
with some able players, some diehard support and some momentum and belief we could go straight through ...
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LPGas
Stuart Taylor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,240
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Post by LPGas on Jan 9, 2015 17:00:07 GMT
I think that League two is a poor standard.... with some able players, some diehard support and some momentum and belief we could go straight through ... Agree
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 17:12:17 GMT
When we went up in 74 (after years in div 3)Megson didn't change enough in my opinion,whether he ran out of ideas or whether it was lack of funds I don't know but we just stagnated and struggled in div 2 and support dropped off. Just because a team gets promoted doesn't mean the players are good enough for the higher division,we need to add quality NOW to get us up AND when / if we do go up,some of our players are only just good enough for the conference and we are missing players in key positions.
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Post by Blue Mist on Jan 9, 2015 17:14:31 GMT
Is there such a thing as too much team spirit? What would happen if we had an overdose of team spirit? The hangover is terrible. What I meant was adding too many new players too quickly can have an effect on team spirit which I think is what happened after promotion to league 1. We dropped or got rid of players who apparently couldn't cut it but actually as a team added up to more than the sum of their parts.
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c13
Rickie Lambert
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 424
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Post by c13 on Jan 11, 2015 16:20:28 GMT
Is there such a thing as too much team spirit? What would happen if we had an overdose of team spirit? The hangover is terrible. What I meant was adding too many new players too quickly can have an effect on team spirit which I think is what happened after promotion to league 1. We dropped or got rid of players who apparently couldn't cut it but actually as a team added up to more than the sum of their parts. And this happens a lot in football, a team gets promoted, clears the house and start bringing in journeymen and out-of-luck loanees hoping that they'll sort each other out and build chemistry based on luck. That's why this is kind of a "dillema" which comes with promotion, maintaining or rebuilding. Ideally I'd go for mid-term of course, send off a couple and bring in a couple more matching the squad's personality, but it's not how it usually goes, unfortunately.
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Post by ismellgas on Jan 11, 2015 17:36:13 GMT
What a joke,I think we are lucky to keep Sinclair,where would we be without him I just hope he doesn't get injured he is our star man without doubt.as for Trollope we were mid table in league 1 when we got rid of him and def wouldn't be where we are now if we had kept him and gave him some money to spend.look at the people at the top if anyone is to blame,league 2 isn't good enough for us and all this new stadium talk has taken the clubs eye off the ball,I would rather have a full mem every home game than with a intimidating atmosphere than a half empty uwe with no atmosphere
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 19:18:37 GMT
as for Trollope we were mid table in league 1 when we got rid of him and def wouldn't be where we are now if we had kept him and gave him some money to spend. I may be wrong but I believe Trollope's last league game left us in the relegation zone. But I do believe, if we stayed with him, we wouldnt have got relegated.
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