dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 872 
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Post by dagnogo on Nov 25, 2014 16:25:41 GMT
To blame DC for Ward's failures is short-sighted.
Look at this season's team and last season's team. Clarke isn't a negative hoofball merchant. He was reduced to being a bibs and cones man until Ward realised he didn't want yet another relegation on his CV.
Cleaely he took charge of 8 games with Ward's disinterested, unprofessional squad of overpaid wasters, and I'll bet he shoulders a bit of blame, but let's judge him on HIS team.
Obviously that makes me a rose tinter who doesn't live in the real world, and we should sack him immediately to see which past-it bustes flush of a coach fancies the latest free lunch on BRFC's time.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Nov 25, 2014 16:31:20 GMT
To blame DC for Ward's failures is short-sighted. Look at this season's team and last season's team. Clarke isn't a negative hoofball merchant. He was reduced to being a bibs and cones man until Ward realised he didn't want yet another relegation on his CV. Cleaely he took charge of 8 games with Ward's disinterested, unprofessional squad of overpaid wasters, and I'll bet he shoulders a bit of blame, but let's judge him on HIS team. Obviously that makes me a rose tinter who doesn't live in the real world, and we should sack him immediately to see which past-it bustes flush of a coach fancies the latest free lunch on BRFC's time. Whilst Ward should take most, but not all, the blame for last season it's also shirt sighted to not see that last season's biggest problem is also this season's biggest problem not enough effing goals |
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dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 872
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Post by dagnogo on Nov 25, 2014 16:33:32 GMT
To blame DC for Ward's failures is short-sighted. Look at this season's team and last season's team. Clarke isn't a negative hoofball merchant. He was reduced to being a bibs and cones man until Ward realised he didn't want yet another relegation on his CV. Cleaely he took charge of 8 games with Ward's disinterested, unprofessional squad of overpaid wasters, and I'll bet he shoulders a bit of blame, but let's judge him on HIS team. Obviously that makes me a rose tinter who doesn't live in the real world, and we should sack him immediately to see which past-it bustes flush of a coach fancies the latest free lunch on BRFC's time. Whilst Ward should take most, but not all, the blame for last season it's also shirt sighted to not see that last season's biggest problem is also this season's biggest problem not enough effing goals We agree there. As much as I want DC to stay, his signings of Taylor and White didn't exactly solve that issue and he deserves criticism for that. Blissett should sort that out though, better late than never I guess. |
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Post by nickchippenhamgas on Nov 25, 2014 20:27:12 GMT
We are where we are. History means nothing whatsoever and the quicker some fans realise this the better. History is what it is..it is what's written in Books.it's the past,it's yesterday and more importantly it's GONE. We are a Conference team now, in the Conference, no more no less. We have no divine right to win games here and for anyone to say we should be romping this League then in all honesty they are talking out of their rear end. We are here for a reason and that reason is because in the last 5 years at least we have not been good enough whichever division we have been in and last season we were not good enough to retain our League status. People can say what they want but if you are relegated from one division it does NOT mean that you will be the best team in the division below as was proven when we were relegated from League 1. In the same way that teams who win a league generally have a good first 4 months in the division above due to thye momentum of success so teams on the downward spiral struggle to turn it around. DC has managed so far to turn around that downward spiral, he has done that on a budget which is probably 100% lower than the budget which Trollope had 5 years ago. Its Ok saying we have one of the largest budgets every year but people seem to forget that we have been moving down leagues and I am sure our budget this season would be equivalent to the lower teams in League 2. i was not a DC fan and have always said that we should have appointed a Manager like Martin Allen at least 2 months before Clarke took over but that again is History and totally irrelevant now. I have moved on to the PRESENT and DC has proved himself this season IMO and deserves the right to be our Manager for the whole season. We are in a good position in this League at this time. Every point is a point nearer the target which must be to regain our league status. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a Football team. It takes time,patience and a great deal of luck WHATEVER division you are in. It is clearly visible that many do not have the Patience needed and this has probably been a big part of our decline. To call for a Managers head when we sit 2 points off second place is absolutely ridiculous. if we were in the bottom 4 I could understand it. I stand on the terraces today proud to be a Gashead watching a team of players who each give 100% to the cause and it is a few years since I could say that together with a Manager who calls it as it is. Yes I am hurting from the relegation but that is history. To regain our League status this season will be a tremendous achievement and I believe that DC CAN achieve this. That does not mean he will but he has as much chance as anyone else but to achieve it he need everyone to get behind him. we are supposed to be the 12th man not the Hangman. Swallow your pride ,forget what has been and create a new history, be part of it and get off your asses and get down the Mem tonight and every home game.Instead of moaning behind a keyboard about things you haven't seen do your part and get behind each and every player and the Manager. Do that and you can say you played your part in any success we have because the easiest thing to do is sit back and criticise the failures from behind a keyboard. This is not intended as a criticism of those who due to health, wealth or situation cannot attend but to those who sit at home moaning,criticising and come out with any excuse whatsoever to not attend. UTG 100% agree with this, more sensible posts like this please!!!! |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 3:28:44 GMT
Bamber Gasgroin, What league is Mediocrity? With that attitude you may as well support a top Premiership team as it basically means you shouldn't support anything as mediocrity is League 1 & 2 also. Success this season will be to get out of this League and I'm sorry if you don't think we should support that but that's your prerogative. People have already criticised Clarke for last season when it was Ward who got us in the mess. I feel the position we are in now is worth being positive about the club. Each to our own. It's not a League, it's a club that when the present Chairman took over was 2 divisions higher and had just made a massive profit, now being 2 divisions lower and having lost all of that profit plus having huge additional loans secured against the only asset. And has had huge income from player sales, all gone, wasted, lost, gambled away. It's an assistant manager who, along with the manager, undid all of the work done the previous year, then when he took sole charge turned solid home form into defeats against the worst team in the entire League and played suicide tactics against a team with nothing whatsoever to play for. It's a club who get 5000+ home gates, sell out both corporate areas of the ground but still can't put out a team capable of beating Chester, Kidderminster, Alfreton, Tranmere (cast adrift at the bottom of L2 and hadn't won in 12 games before facing Rovers), Forest Green Rovers, Aldershot, Dover, Eastleigh, Braintree or Altrincham. Knock yourself out standing on the sidelines and on forums clapping and saying how great that record is. I'll repeat, it's nothing to do with the players, they look to be doing the best they can, but see the other thread about how full time professional athletes should be looked after and how that should give a massive advantage over part time outfits. Then look at our results against those part time clubs. Something's not right, is it? mostly the part time teams are struggling in the bottom half and the full time teams are chasing the play offs,so the full time teams have the edge,though woking are an exeption,,luton won the league comfortably but still lost games to part timers so i find your relentlessly negative posting pointless,,nothing rovers do in this league is good enough for you so why not take a break and come back when were in the league or maybe the championship? i think the phrase used for these types is "fair weather supporter" |
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Post by Blue Mist on Nov 26, 2014 10:36:06 GMT
How boring would the game be if teams with money always beat teams with less. If that was the case you may as well just settle the titles on paper.
We'd like to beat every team but Its the unpredictable nature of football that makes it a great game to watch and play.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Nov 26, 2014 13:26:09 GMT
How boring would the game be if teams with money always beat teams with less. If that was the case you may as well just settle the titles on paper. We'd like to beat every team but Its the unpredictable nature of football that makes it a great game to watch and play. Studies have shown that over a reasonable time period, wage expenditure is a very good predictor of league position. Clubs that are an exception are usually associated with severe financial mismanagement. BRFC happens to be one of those exceptions. What does that tell you? |
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Nov 26, 2014 13:35:34 GMT
We are where we are. History means nothing whatsoever and the quicker some fans realise this the better. History is what it is..it is what's written in Books.it's the past,it's yesterday and more importantly it's GONE. We are a Conference team now, in the Conference, no more no less. We have no divine right to win games here and for anyone to say we should be romping this League then in all honesty they are talking out of their rear end. We are here for a reason and that reason is because in the last 5 years at least we have not been good enough whichever division we have been in and last season we were not good enough to retain our League status. People can say what they want but if you are relegated from one division it does NOT mean that you will be the best team in the division below as was proven when we were relegated from League 1. In the same way that teams who win a league generally have a good first 4 months in the division above due to thye momentum of success so teams on the downward spiral struggle to turn it around. DC has managed so far to turn around that downward spiral, he has done that on a budget which is probably 100% lower than the budget which Trollope had 5 years ago. Its Ok saying we have one of the largest budgets every year but people seem to forget that we have been moving down leagues and I am sure our budget this season would be equivalent to the lower teams in League 2. i was not a DC fan and have always said that we should have appointed a Manager like Martin Allen at least 2 months before Clarke took over but that again is History and totally irrelevant now. I have moved on to the PRESENT and DC has proved himself this season IMO and deserves the right to be our Manager for the whole season. We are in a good position in this League at this time. Every point is a point nearer the target which must be to regain our league status. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a Football team. It takes time,patience and a great deal of luck WHATEVER division you are in. It is clearly visible that many do not have the Patience needed and this has probably been a big part of our decline. To call for a Managers head when we sit 2 points off second place is absolutely ridiculous. if we were in the bottom 4 I could understand it. I stand on the terraces today proud to be a Gashead watching a team of players who each give 100% to the cause and it is a few years since I could say that together with a Manager who calls it as it is. Yes I am hurting from the relegation but that is history. To regain our League status this season will be a tremendous achievement and I believe that DC CAN achieve this. That does not mean he will but he has as much chance as anyone else but to achieve it he need everyone to get behind him. we are supposed to be the 12th man not the Hangman. Swallow your pride ,forget what has been and create a new history, be part of it and get off your asses and get down the Mem tonight and every home game.Instead of moaning behind a keyboard about things you haven't seen do your part and get behind each and every player and the Manager. Do that and you can say you played your part in any success we have because the easiest thing to do is sit back and criticise the failures from behind a keyboard. This is not intended as a criticism of those who due to health, wealth or situation cannot attend but to those who sit at home moaning,criticising and come out with any excuse whatsoever to not attend. UTG History is a study past events. The events of the past have resulted in BRFC being where we are. Of course, logically the history of any thing leads to that thing being where it is, as it can't be anywhere else. We shouldn't be where we are because we have twice the fans of any other team in this league, right now. Unfortunately I struggle believe that any possible actions of the supporters can be enough to overcome the crushingly incompentent managment of the board of directors of this club, and that should we get promotion, it won't be long before we are relegated again. I base this on the evidence of thier past record. Could you please show me the evidence that the actions of the supporters can make a significant long term improvement in the fortunes of Bristol Rovers, without action by its owners? |
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Post by Blue Mist on Nov 27, 2014 2:07:44 GMT
How boring would the game be if teams with money always beat teams with less. If that was the case you may as well just settle the titles on paper. We'd like to beat every team but Its the unpredictable nature of football that makes it a great game to watch and play. Studies have shown that over a reasonable time period, wage expenditure is a very good predictor of league position. Clubs that are an exception are usually associated with severe financial mismanagement. BRFC happens to be one of those exceptions. What does that tell you? Good point, It tells me BRFC have been poorly managed financially over a long period of time, that's a given. I didn't make it clear but my comments were in the context of now this season and us losing to the teams mentioned above that we should apparently beat given our alleged high budget and larger fan base. We didn't lose to these teams because of poor financial management, we lost to them because they played better on the night, had more luck, decisions went against us, we didn't put away chances created etc. All the unpredictable things that can happen to any team in any game no matter how well or poorly financed they are. |
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Nov 27, 2014 9:02:28 GMT
Studies have shown that over a reasonable time period, wage expenditure is a very good predictor of league position. Clubs that are an exception are usually associated with severe financial mismanagement. BRFC happens to be one of those exceptions. What does that tell you? Good point, It tells me BRFC have been poorly managed financially over a long period of time, that's a given. I didn't make it clear but my comments were in the context of now this season and us losing to the teams mentioned above that we should apparently beat given our alleged high budget and larger fan base. We didn't lose to these teams because of poor financial management, we lost to them because they played better on the night, had more luck, decisions went against us, we didn't put away chances created etc. All the unpredictable things that can happen to any team in any game no matter how well or poorly financed they are. Yeah course, and I wasn't really saying that I'm saying that. Its just something many football fans seem to struggle with - you can only draw conclusions, good or bad, if you have a big enough sample set. One game, or even on season, probably isn't enough to judge the running of a club - 13 years probably is though. This is why I hate the board's attempt to say that our relegation was a one off event, an accident, or the fault of one man. Since the 2001-2 season, we've finished twelfth in the bottom division or below 8 times. Clubs in the lower 3 divisions are pretty close together, so a dozen places is just statistical fluff - just 3 or 4 wins difference. Eventually, relegation was inevitable. What worries me is, what has changed? Nothing as far as I can see, we still just totally rely on the skills of one man, one recruitment - and anyone who has spent time in recruitment knows that its one of the hardest things in the world to get right, even more so if you have little experience in the industry you are recruiting for. Even if the board have got lucky and Clarke turns out to be a roaring success, yeah I'll enjoy that period, but what happens when he leaves? Back to the bottom. Back to knocking on the door of extinction. You can't dismiss history. Those that do are doomed to repeat it. |
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Post by stevek192 on Nov 27, 2014 9:05:03 GMT
The fact is that many teams go through long periods of poor performances/results/finances. Its not just us!! It's swings and roundabouts but at the end of the day it is not down to finances or how the club is run it is down to the performances on the pitch NOW. History makes sod all difference and it is very easy after the events to criticise. The important thing is what you do about it and this season it appears the right thing is being done possibly off the pitch as well as on it. We have had to reduce our outgoings and the standard of players is of a poorer pedigree but we do appear top be goiing in the right direction at last. We shall see as the season develops because nothing is won in November.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Nov 27, 2014 9:10:54 GMT
The fact is that many teams go through long periods of poor performances/results/finances. Its not just us!! It's swings and roundabouts but at the end of the day it is not down to finances or how the club is run it is down to the performances on the pitch NOW. History makes sod all difference and it is very easy after the events to criticise. The important thing is what you do about it and this season it appears the right thing is being done possibly off the pitch as well as on it. We have had to reduce our outgoings and the standard of players is of a poorer pedigree but we do appear top be goiing in the right direction at last. We shall see as the season develops because nothing is won in November. Sorry mate, but that's utter rubbish. You seem to be saying that long periods of poor performance aren't down to how the club is run - but short periods of good performance are. History does make a difference, because its what you use to determine patterns of behaviour that do, or don't, work. How do you plan for the future without studying the past? See my last post. |
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Post by stevek192 on Nov 27, 2014 9:22:49 GMT
So what does History tell us then faggotygas that is useful?? We have had the successful Manager brought back (Francis/ Ward), the inexperienced partnered with the experienced(Trollope/Lawrence),the Player (Holloway/Campbell), the experienced (McGhee),the pretty unknown experienced ( Penney), the successful at another club (Buckle). As far as I can saee the only thing that History tells us is that the only way to improve is to replace your Manager at Christmas!!!
It seems to me that all some supporters seem to live to do is to criticise and apportion blame mainly at the Board when IMO the majority of success / failure is down to the Manager/Players on the pitch producing good results.
It seems that when we are poor people criticise for the present and when we are doing well people criticise for the past.
Everything must be geared to the present and the first thing was to accept that for whatever reason we are where we are and then get on with putting us back where we should be which is certainly not here.
The present players,playing at the present standard with the present Manager and the present Board all in it together with us -the supporters getting behind the team being successful. It is no good saying we should be doing this or that- all the present team can do is to get us as near to the top as possibloe and if we are successful (which at present we are) then praise is due.
Are we on the way back? Who knows? Only time will tell- certainly history will not.
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Post by stevek192 on Nov 27, 2014 9:29:13 GMT
Recent History (25 years)tells us that to be really successful ie Premiership you spend money you don't have on players you can't really afford and together you sh-t on everybody else because you are the only ones that matter!!
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Nov 27, 2014 9:39:15 GMT
Recent History (25 years)tells us that to be really successful ie Premiership you spend money you don't have on players you can't really afford and together you sh-t on everybody else because you are the only ones that matter!! Clearly you have lofty goals for Rovers! For me, I'll be happy if we could be not unsuccessful - i.e., being where we should be in the league based on supporter numbers. |
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Post by stevek192 on Nov 27, 2014 9:49:42 GMT
So the answer is then to increase our supporters so we can be in the Premiership!!!
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Nov 27, 2014 9:51:32 GMT
So what does History tell us then faggotygas that is useful?? We have had the successful Manager brought back (Francis/ Ward), the inexperienced partnered with the experienced(Trollope/Lawrence),the Player (Holloway/Campbell), the experienced (McGhee),the pretty unknown experienced ( Penney), the successful at another club (Buckle). As far as I can saee the only thing that History tells us is that the only way to improve is to replace your Manager at Christmas!!! It seems to me that all some supporters seem to live to do is to criticise and apportion blame mainly at the Board when IMO the majority of success / failure is down to the Manager/Players on the pitch producing good results. It seems that when we are poor people criticise for the present and when we are doing well people criticise for the past. Everything must be geared to the present and the first thing was to accept that for whatever reason we are where we are and then get on with putting us back where we should be which is certainly not here. The present players,playing at the present standard with the present Manager and the present Board all in it together with us -the supporters getting behind the team being successful. It is no good saying we should be doing this or that- all the present team can do is to get us as near to the top as possibloe and if we are successful (which at present we are) then praise is due. Are we on the way back? Who knows? Only time will tell- certainly history will not. It tells us that our demise is bigger than individual managers. It tells us that our recruitment policy, indeed the entire management structure of the club, is flawed. it tells us that you may get an upturn in results by sacking the manager mid season, but its temporary. It tells us that 100% relying on the manager, with no mid to long term structure in the club, is a disaster. Personally, I believe that the supporters should always constructively question and challenge the running of their club, for the better. I want there to be a Bristol Rovers for my children, and their children to support, and the evidence of the last 14 years has been that sometime soon, there won't be. Half a season, or one season, or 2 seasons, of relative improvement does not change that. You seem to be in favour of entirely passive, reactive blind support, that the supporters' role is to just boo or cheer as appropriate and then sit down and shut up, as if you are watching a TV programme. For me, a football club is more than that. I'm not saying that we change the past - that's impossible. I'm saying that Rovers should learn from the past, and if the board do not do that, then we have a duty to future generations to force them to. |
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LJG
Peter Beadle
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 969
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Post by LJG on Nov 27, 2014 18:41:36 GMT
Faggoty is making virtually the same points I'm making on the same thread on the other forum.
To say that "history is history and we are where we are but get behind the lads because we're not getting d*cked every week" is just the sort of balls that allows the cr*p we see season in season out to carry on and we burble along the bottom like a crab bouncing along the river bed.
One manager is not a football club! We are in the sh1t! DC might be a f**king wizard but if things don't change it'll make flip all difference in the long run.
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