vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Sept 8, 2014 20:27:13 GMT
Are there any investors lurking in the wings to enable us to start again? Even rumours of will suffice to lift my weary soul? Premier Blue, even Geriatric Blue?
I have been advised that the best thing to happen now to BRFC is for them to enter administration. It will remove the current board, allow a possible fan-supported / investor buy-out and hopefully engender a backs-to-the-wall mentality. Rag-bag Rovers Return.
For me, such talk was always the economics of madness, but I actually think there is some Machiavellian logic in this i.e. the end justfies the means.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 20:51:28 GMT
Are there any investors lurking in the wings to enable us to start again? Even rumours of will suffice to lift my weary soul? Premier Blue, even Geriatric Blue? I have been advised that the best thing to happen now to BRFC is for them to enter administration. It will remove the current board, allow a possible fan-supported / investor buy-out and hopefully engender a backs-to-the-wall mentality. Rag-bag Rovers Return. For me, such talk was always the economics of madness, but I actually think there is some Machiavellian logic in this i.e. the end justfies the means. Why does the person advising you think that they should go into administration when almost all of the debt is internal? Directors are not disqualified from tendering for the assets of companies that go into administration anyway, so even if administration did happen it wouldn't guarantee that the existing board wouldn't remain in charge.
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Post by stevek192 on Sept 8, 2014 21:05:54 GMT
Administration is NEVER the best thing to happen and you must be a total fool to think so.
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Post by Nobbygas on Sept 8, 2014 21:08:22 GMT
Who were the advisors, RBS?
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Post by traveling_wilbury on Sept 8, 2014 21:15:18 GMT
From memory, didn't Ken Bates put Leeds in administration and then buy them out of it?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 21:34:12 GMT
From memory, didn't Ken Bates put Leeds in administration and then buy them out of it? See my point above. Not sure it's such a great idea for football clubs, but in other businesses voluntary administration can be a highly effective way of clearing debt. Swindon have done OK out of it, what did they do, was it £2m of debt cleared in exchange for losing 10 points? £200k per point, if you can't get more than 1 point advantage for every £200k spent then you must be an idiot, even our board could manage that, couldn't they?
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Sept 8, 2014 22:30:01 GMT
As the only means of removing the current Board.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 22:56:18 GMT
As the only means of removing the current Board. Still don't get it. In the absence of significant external debt you want them to place their company into administration as a means to force themselves out of their own boardroom?
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Sept 8, 2014 23:11:46 GMT
I don't want them to do anything but clear off.
However, the logic is that they continue to fund a loss-making venture (for how long can they keep doing this?) or they sell the only asset they have (assuming Sainsbury's is dead). If Sainsbuty's is dead, selling the ground is the only way of getting thier money back, but they love the Club too much, don't they?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 23:18:13 GMT
As the only means of removing the current Board. Still don't get it. In the absence of significant external debt you want them to place their company into administration as a means to force themselves out of their own boardroom? The intellectual content of some posters beggars belief! It just goes to show that the ability to read and write doesn't necessarily mean the produce will be either coherent or intelligible.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 2:12:09 GMT
Still don't get it. In the absence of significant external debt you want them to place their company into administration as a means to force themselves out of their own boardroom? The intellectual content of some posters beggars belief! It just goes to show that the ability to read and write doesn't necessarily mean the produce will be either coherent or intelligible. I say sir!!
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Sept 9, 2014 9:18:45 GMT
Yes Oldie, it's the world we live in.
Rude individuals who hide behind ridiculous Internet pseudonyms (multiple in some cases) who would never have the guts to move away from their device and present their arguments to a room of people.
Henbury Gas seems to be predicting administration in any case.
If Sainsburys dies or is seriously delayed, then I wonder who will continue funding this FC. Geoff Dunford has voted with his feet in this regard.
I can't see an alternative to Board continuing to fund, cutting their losses or selling the ground (the unthinkable) to re-coup their individual debts.
My fear is that Higgs & Co are literally stuck and will be here for a long time to come as I think the Sainsbury's situation will roll on for years because of the pending legal dispute.
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Post by stevek192 on Sept 9, 2014 9:42:10 GMT
To be fair mate you have brought it on yourself. Just think about it and ask how many of the clubs and their fans were happy when their club went into administration? I think when you find the answer to that you will realise that the "advice" you heard is totally barmy and you are totally niave for thinking it a good idea anyway!!
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rovers2
Bruce Bannister
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 326
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Post by rovers2 on Sept 9, 2014 9:51:34 GMT
Oldie, Vaughan, one thing worries me about this whole situation. Putting Geoff to one side for the moment, none of the Directors involved now with the club were involved in the Memorial Stadium purchase, so cannot claim they have added any value to the clubs assets through that purchase.
However, they have been involved in the frittering away of the monies generated by the JPT final, playoff final and quarter finals of the FA Cup and then gambling away further millions in a cavalier fashion.
Now I can see the case that if they will add value to the Mem asset by completing the Sainsburys purchase, loans could go back to them. However if we are stuck at the Mem, why should they get that money back?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 10:21:43 GMT
Oldie, Vaughan, one thing worries me about this whole situation. Putting Geoff to one side for the moment, none of the Directors involved now with the club were involved in the Memorial Stadium purchase, so cannot claim they have added any value to the clubs assets through that purchase. However, they have been involved in the frittering away of the monies generated by the JPT final, playoff final and quarter finals of the FA Cup and then gambling away further millions in a cavalier fashion. Now I can see the case that if they will add value to the Mem asset by completing the Sainsburys purchase, loans could go back to them. However if we are stuck at the Mem, why should they get that money back? Blimey, I thought that I was the only one thinking this! Putting legalities on one side, the stadium belongs to the club, the club is a community asset. What right do Higgs, Jelf, Ware, Bradshaw, King have to squander the equity in that asset, and then sell it to get their money back? To the people saying that there would be no Rovers without Higgs and his inherited fortune, Rovers would have been better off borrowing the money from normal commercial lenders and having someone, anyone other than Higgs decide how to spend it. Not what the directors want to hear, but they need to man up, accept that this entire mess is their fault, write off their losses, hand the keys over, apologise and walk away. And take Watola with them, he's a constant factor in what's happened to Rovers. Then sat behind that, they have the nerve to ban a life long supporter, who as far as I can see has done nothing wrong, from our stadium! Higgs should remember that Kevin was there funding the club long before Sainsbury's arrived on the scene and suddenly he thought it was a good idea to get involved. Now that Geoff is no longer part of any decision making process Higgs has nowhere to hide, he needs to either provide evidence to support this stupid ban, or sit with Kevin, knock up a quick statement explaining that they have agreed to put any differences behind them and give Kevin the option to return if that's what he wants to do.
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toteend
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 305
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Post by toteend on Sept 9, 2014 10:43:34 GMT
NH didn't inherit his money. He got it by building up Cowlins then selling it. That's the end of justifying NH.
Investors? There are two sorts. Honest ones and dishonest ones. The danger is we must not let the dishonest ones in.
Who will vet them? Don't rely on the fit and proper mechanisms. So it has to be NH. I just can't believe he would let some sort of rogue into the club. Sadly it needs a complete sale of the club, and we need to hope someone with the clubs best interests at heart is out there. We just have to find them
Remember, even from where we are now, the stadium is such an undoubted commercial success waiting to happen we must be one of the most eligible purchases in British Football. That is if the comedian Toni Tombola has been removed.
Assuming of course that the new stadium happens.
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rovers2
Bruce Bannister
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 326
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Post by rovers2 on Sept 9, 2014 11:09:44 GMT
NH didn't inherit his money. He got it by building up Cowlins then selling it. That's the end of justifying NH. Investors? There are two sorts. Honest ones and dishonest ones. The danger is we must not let the dishonest ones in. Who will vet them? Don't rely on the fit and proper mechanisms. So it has to be NH. I just can't believe he would let some sort of rogue into the club. Sadly it needs a complete sale of the club, and we need to hope someone with the clubs best interests at heart is out there. We just have to find them Remember, even from where we are now, the stadium is such an undoubted commercial success waiting to happen we must be one of the most eligible purchases in British Football. That is if the comedian Toni Tombola has been removed. Assuming of course that the new stadium happens. OK, lets have some pretend good news. I have a group of investors, all committed to the future of the football club and investing in Rovers.
How much do you think that they should pay for the football club and ground? Lets assume loans on the Mem are about £6m and they want their money back, and also assume the FC is losing £1.5m a year. We can talk about investors all we like but it comes to the crunch, what do you want to pay?
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Sept 9, 2014 11:16:07 GMT
Some very good points by BG above. I think what has been missed is the amount of money spent via Opal and Sainsbury's projects. Millions of £s on planning / professional fees with no return as yet.
So how much do we believe BRFC is worth if Sainsbury's doesn't happen?
What do you think BRFC directors are prepared to accept given the outstanding debts to them?
Any investor must be encouraged by size of fan-base relative to where we are in pyramid and the fact that they have already raised a considerable amount of money via Share Scheme. This could be repeated in part to facilitate buy-out?
I just think we are literally doomed under Higgs - look at his record.
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intheknow
Archie Stephens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 232
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Investors
Sept 9, 2014 11:42:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by intheknow on Sept 9, 2014 11:42:50 GMT
NH didn't inherit his money. He got it by building up Cowlins then selling it. That's the end of justifying NH. Investors? There are two sorts. Honest ones and dishonest ones. The danger is we must not let the dishonest ones in. Who will vet them? Don't rely on the fit and proper mechanisms. So it has to be NH. I just can't believe he would let some sort of rogue into the club. Sadly it needs a complete sale of the club, and we need to hope someone with the clubs best interests at heart is out there. We just have to find them Remember, even from where we are now, the stadium is such an undoubted commercial success waiting to happen we must be one of the most eligible purchases in British Football. That is if the comedian Toni Tombola has been removed. Assuming of course that the new stadium happens. OK, lets have some pretend good news. I have a group of investors, all committed to the future of the football club and investing in Rovers.
How much do you think that they should pay for the football club and ground? Lets assume loans on the Mem are about £6m and they want their money back, and also assume the FC is losing £1.5m a year. We can talk about investors all we like but it comes to the crunch, what do you want to pay?
I heard the other day that Wrexham FC is up for sale at 3.5 million . No idea of any debts they have or stadium owning rights etc. I'd guess we'd be worth a smidge more ... £4 million ?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 13:20:19 GMT
The danger is we must not let the dishonest ones in. That would be nice.
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