Icegas
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Post by Icegas on Oct 29, 2024 10:24:20 GMT
You don't make sense and are contradicting yourself. So if you and I were walking down a street after a pint, and we saw Tommy Robinson run across a road to defend a girl from a white British guy,along with his muslim friend who were together,and both had the same intentions of attacking this female, yet Tommy stopped both from doing so.... then you would congratulate him for stopping the British guys assault, yet condemn him for stopping the Muslim guy due to your opinion of his views previously? That's basically what you just wrote. That's honestly one of the most insane, and confusing things from a moral point of view that I have ever read on this forum. If you follow that analogy, Tommy won't stop the white man, he'll stop the Muslim man irregardless of who is the greater threat and wait for someone else to stop the white man. No, that's the way YOU see it,and not what I presented. |
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Post by pop up pirate on Oct 29, 2024 10:26:19 GMT
I can't support a cause like that, it's almost like he's demonstrating it's only non-Muslins who are allowed to rape white children when you see his history of associates. That's double standards. A ring of 21 white sexual abusers that operated over a decade were eventually brought to justice last year, not a peep from him. Don't forget he's even resorted to peddling lies that he's had to retract. Child sexual abuse is a huge issue, and has been for years, but using that selectively and deceptively to rally support to fund his lifestyle and cause division marks him as scum in my eyes. You don't make sense and are contradicting yourself. So if you and I were walking down a street after a pint, and we saw Tommy Robinson run across a road to defend a girl from a white British guy,along with his muslim friend who were together,and both had the same intentions of attacking this female, yet Tommy stopped both from doing so.... then you would congratulate him for stopping the British guys assault, yet condemn him for stopping the Muslim guy due to your opinion of his views previously? That's basically what you just wrote. That's honestly one of the most insane, and confusing things from a moral point of view that I have ever read on this forum. I don't see how it's a contradiction at all, I also haven't seen one case where him investigating has unearthed something that wasn't already being so. If you and I want for a pint and saw that happening, I'd like to think we'd both jump in and help. Of course we would. And fair play to Tommy if he jumps in too, but what I believe would be more likely is that he'd spin the story and frame it as a Muslim crime. Why doesn't he work with charities and use his enormous donations to support victims, of all races, of sexual abuse? I'd have some respect for him if he demonstrated he genuinely cares about the issues. With his reach he could do so much to raise awareness, but he seems happy to conceal the fact that abuse is more likely to happen within families of all races and religions. I can't ignore the bad with him, I can't even see ANY positives he's achieved and am very suspicious of his behaviours. Jimmy Savile did a lot of good work for charity but I'm not giving him any credit either |
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Icegas
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Post by Icegas on Oct 29, 2024 10:30:10 GMT
So the basic premise is that the authorities do not pursue some groups of the population because of their choice of religion. Personally, whilst I don't doubt that in countries where religion is a powerful political force this indeed is what happens, that is not in the UK. Although it did take us a outrageously long time to dig out the child abusers in our Christian hierarchy. Is there any evidence, other than incompetence within the police, that we do not pursue anyone who breaks the law? Not here say or personal opinion over due process, but solid evidence. This line of argument is meat and two vedge for the nasty right wing in society, personified by people like Robinson and brutally on full display at the Trump rally in Madison Square Garden. The Barbarians are truly at the gate Don't dodge another question...so who are these indigenous people you speak of? City fans? |
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baldrick
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Post by baldrick on Oct 29, 2024 10:31:32 GMT
If you follow that analogy, Tommy won't stop the white man, he'll stop the Muslim man irregardless of who is the greater threat and wait for someone else to stop the white man. No, that's the way YOU see it,and not what I presented. Not quite. This started when I asked if TR would expose a white or other non Muslim grooming gang, the response was there was no need to as the authorities were not scared of these, TR is concentrating on one area. So my comparison above is apt. Unless TR has exposed them or you feel he should include these in his investigations. |
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Icegas
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Post by Icegas on Oct 29, 2024 11:20:40 GMT
No, that's the way YOU see it,and not what I presented. Not quite. This started when I asked if TR would expose a white or other non Muslim grooming gang, the response was there was no need to as the authorities were not scared of these, TR is concentrating on one area. So my comparison above is apt. Unless TR has exposed them or you feel he should include these in his investigations. I myself never stated that. I'm fully committed in saying that if Tommy were aware of any white British males raping girls anywhere - say his next door neighbour,at his local shops, or at a Luton town match,that he would go after them.There is no evidence suggesting otherwise, other than your blinded and slanderous opinion of him.So save the EDL claims.. Why have you not gone after English grooming gangs? Same question is, Why haven't I..? Tommy's first focus was on local muslim grooming gangs in his home town after they raped a family member.This then went national, and now worldwide. He planted his flag in the sand years ago of who he was try to expose. After many attempts to kill him by firebomb attacks,along with his family.Being made bankrupt by the state, and a number of attempts to kill him in prison, all while the media wrote lies about him and taking his social media away....do you really thing the most hated person in the country ( by people like you ) is going to go after another section of society now? It would be madness, and not a racist thing not too.. He is in survival mode for his life until the end of it. He knows he has f**ked himself by trying to expose the truth.He has said he knows that he will be murdered one day for exposing the truth on muslim grooming gangs. He is a dead man walking, or now sat in a prison cell. Why is he going to create himself anymore enemies... Your argument makes again, no sense.. |
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baldrick
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Post by baldrick on Oct 29, 2024 11:33:37 GMT
Not quite. This started when I asked if TR would expose a white or other non Muslim grooming gang, the response was there was no need to as the authorities were not scared of these, TR is concentrating on one area. So my comparison above is apt. Unless TR has exposed them or you feel he should include these in his investigations. I myself never stated that. I'm fully committed in saying that if Tommy were aware of any white British males raping girls anywhere - say his next door neighbour,at his local shops, or at a Luton town match,that he would go after them.There is no evidence suggesting otherwise, other than your blinded and slanderous opinion of him.So save the EDL claims.. Why have you not gone after English grooming gangs? Same question is, Why haven't I..? Tommy's first focus was on local muslim grooming gangs in his home town after they raped a family member.This then went national, and now worldwide. He planted his flag in the sand years ago of who he was try to expose. After many attempts to kill him by firebomb attacks,along with his family.Being made bankrupt by the state, and a number of attempts to kill him in prison, all while the media wrote lies about him and taking his social media away....do you really thing the most hated person in the country ( by people like you ) is going to go after another section of society now? It would be madness, and not a racist thing not too.. He is in survival mode for his life until the end of it. He knows he has f**ked himself by trying to expose the truth.He has said he knows that he will be murdered one day for exposing the truth on muslim grooming gangs. He is a dead man walking, or now sat in a prison cell. Why is he going to create himself anymore enemies... Your argument makes again, no sense.. I don't hate him and I dont think I mentioned EDL, I do feel he is feeding on a level of paranoia. Pop up mentioned he defended some of his companions who were convicted and other cases he never commented on. I understand his hatred due to his personal circumstances, yet it appears to me that he sees Islam first and rapists second. Surely he'd be after both. Anyway, we are going round in circles. |
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Post by pop up pirate on Oct 29, 2024 11:34:47 GMT
Not quite. This started when I asked if TR would expose a white or other non Muslim grooming gang, the response was there was no need to as the authorities were not scared of these, TR is concentrating on one area. So my comparison above is apt. Unless TR has exposed them or you feel he should include these in his investigations. I myself never stated that. I'm fully committed in saying that if Tommy were aware of any white British males raping girls anywhere - say his next door neighbour,at his local shops, or at a Luton town match,that he would go after them.There is no evidence suggesting otherwise, other than your blinded and slanderous opinion of him.So save the EDL claims.. Why have you not gone after English grooming gangs? Same question is, Why haven't I..? Tommy's first focus was on local muslim grooming gangs in his home town after they raped a family member.This then went national, and now worldwide. He planted his flag in the sand years ago of who he was try to expose. After many attempts to kill him by firebomb attacks,along with his family.Being made bankrupt by the state, and a number of attempts to kill him in prison, all while the media wrote lies about him and taking his social media away....do you really thing the most hated person in the country ( by people like you ) is going to go after another section of society now? It would be madness, and not a racist thing not too.. He is in survival mode for his life until the end of it. He knows he has f**ked himself by trying to expose the truth.He has said he knows that he will be murdered one day for exposing the truth on muslim grooming gangs. He is a dead man walking, or now sat in a prison cell. Why is he going to create himself anymore enemies... Your argument makes again, no sense.. It's not just grooming gangs though is it ice. The Syrian schoolboy is only one example of his involvement going horribly wrong. Why go after a 15 year old, then fabricate a narrative with a film using children as 'evidence'. Bullying is another huge issue but he only jumped on that to suit his agenda. Some of those children could be damaged, and for what? an attempt to save his own skin from libel. Who has benefited from his involvement there? |
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Icegas
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Post by Icegas on Oct 29, 2024 11:37:29 GMT
I myself never stated that. I'm fully committed in saying that if Tommy were aware of any white British males raping girls anywhere - say his next door neighbour,at his local shops, or at a Luton town match,that he would go after them.There is no evidence suggesting otherwise, other than your blinded and slanderous opinion of him.So save the EDL claims.. Why have you not gone after English grooming gangs? Same question is, Why haven't I..? Tommy's first focus was on local muslim grooming gangs in his home town after they raped a family member.This then went national, and now worldwide. He planted his flag in the sand years ago of who he was try to expose. After many attempts to kill him by firebomb attacks,along with his family.Being made bankrupt by the state, and a number of attempts to kill him in prison, all while the media wrote lies about him and taking his social media away....do you really thing the most hated person in the country ( by people like you ) is going to go after another section of society now? It would be madness, and not a racist thing not too.. He is in survival mode for his life until the end of it. He knows he has f**ked himself by trying to expose the truth.He has said he knows that he will be murdered one day for exposing the truth on muslim grooming gangs. He is a dead man walking, or now sat in a prison cell. Why is he going to create himself anymore enemies... Your argument makes again, no sense.. I don't hate him and I dont think I mentioned EDL, I do feel he is feeding on a level of paranoia. Pop up mentioned he defended some of his companions who were convicted and other cases he never commented on. I understand his hatred due to his personal circumstances, yet it appears to me that he sees Islam first and rapists second. Surely he'd be after both. Anyway, we are going round in circles. Agreed we are.. We will respectfully disagree.👍 |
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baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Oct 29, 2024 13:18:47 GMT
43,000 Muslims on the UK terrorist watch list.
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aghast
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Post by aghast on Oct 29, 2024 17:24:51 GMT
43,000 Muslims on the UK terrorist watch list. That figure is over four years old and refers to total numbers, although the vast majority are Muslim. It may have declined, it may have risen. Best to post up to date information I think. |
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baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Oct 29, 2024 17:41:10 GMT
43,000 Muslims on the UK terrorist watch list. That figure is over four years old and refers to total numbers, although the vast majority are Muslim. It may have declined, it may have risen. Best to post up to date information I think. That is the latest figures released.90% Muslims of the 43,000. So best we go with that because if it had gone down,we would of been told. I would bet it's now higher. |
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Oct 30, 2024 10:34:52 GMT
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 1, 2024 14:50:00 GMT
That figure is over four years old and refers to total numbers, although the vast majority are Muslim. It may have declined, it may have risen. Best to post up to date information I think. That is the latest figures released.90% Muslims of the 43,000. So best we go with that because if it had gone down,we would of been told. I would bet it's now higher. It's a strange one Basel. When you try and look for this information, it is does not seem to be in the public domain. Don't try a freedom of information request because the Home Office will not release sensitive data based on ethnicity or religion. No prizes for guessing why. Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public? Anyway FWIW here is a statement from the Home Secretary (July 2023): "By far the biggest terrorist threat comes from Islamist terrorism. It accounts for 67% of attacks since 2018, and about three quarters of MI5’s caseload". The estimated Muslim population in the UK is 4.13 million, which is around 6.3% of the total population. |
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baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Nov 1, 2024 15:02:38 GMT
That is the latest figures released.90% Muslims of the 43,000. So best we go with that because if it had gone down,we would of been told. I would bet it's now higher. It's a strange one Basel. When you try and look for this information, it is does not seem to be in the public domain. Don't try a freedom of information request because the Home Office will not release sensitive data based on ethnicity or religion. No prizes for guessing why. Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public? Anyway FWIW here is a statement from the Home Secretary (July 2023): "By far the biggest terrorist threat comes from Islamist terrorism. It accounts for 67% of attacks since 2018, and about three quarters of MI5’s caseload". The estimated Muslim population in the UK is 4.13 million, which is around 6.3% of the total population. For all our nations challenges Epping,Islam is the biggest. It's a real and serious threat to our civilisation. Not all Muslims and not individual Muslims but the religion. |
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Post by pop up pirate on Nov 1, 2024 15:54:14 GMT
That is the latest figures released.90% Muslims of the 43,000. So best we go with that because if it had gone down,we would of been told. I would bet it's now higher. It's a strange one Basel. When you try and look for this information, it is does not seem to be in the public domain. Don't try a freedom of information request because the Home Office will not release sensitive data based on ethnicity or religion. No prizes for guessing why. Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public? Anyway FWIW here is a statement from the Home Secretary (July 2023): "By far the biggest terrorist threat comes from Islamist terrorism. It accounts for 67% of attacks since 2018, and about three quarters of MI5’s caseload". The estimated Muslim population in the UK is 4.13 million, which is around 6.3% of the total population. 'Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public?' How would releasing that information increase public safety? |
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Nov 1, 2024 17:39:18 GMT
It's a strange one Basel. When you try and look for this information, it is does not seem to be in the public domain. Don't try a freedom of information request because the Home Office will not release sensitive data based on ethnicity or religion. No prizes for guessing why. Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public? Anyway FWIW here is a statement from the Home Secretary (July 2023): "By far the biggest terrorist threat comes from Islamist terrorism. It accounts for 67% of attacks since 2018, and about three quarters of MI5’s caseload". The estimated Muslim population in the UK is 4.13 million, which is around 6.3% of the total population. 'Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public?' How would releasing that information increase public safety? That's a question that will not be answered Pop Up |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 2, 2024 9:12:04 GMT
It's a strange one Basel. When you try and look for this information, it is does not seem to be in the public domain. Don't try a freedom of information request because the Home Office will not release sensitive data based on ethnicity or religion. No prizes for guessing why. Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public? Anyway FWIW here is a statement from the Home Secretary (July 2023): "By far the biggest terrorist threat comes from Islamist terrorism. It accounts for 67% of attacks since 2018, and about three quarters of MI5’s caseload". The estimated Muslim population in the UK is 4.13 million, which is around 6.3% of the total population. 'Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public?' How would releasing that information increase public safety? If the threat is known, then more people would be vigilant. There would be more chance of people, including moderate Muslims, reporting the danger and potentially stopping the next atrocity. Pretending that extreme Islam is not a problem, or attempting to suppress sensitive information that should be in the public domain, is a danger in itself. Hope not hate. I hope 'the left' can acknowledge there is a problem, can discuss it openly, and work with the Muslim community to tackle it. Is that really too much to ask? Or is it easier for the left to label people who raise these concerns Nazis? |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 2, 2024 9:49:33 GMT
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Post by pop up pirate on Nov 2, 2024 9:57:06 GMT
'Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public?' How would releasing that information increase public safety? If the threat is known, then more people would be vigilant. There would be more chance of people, including moderate Muslims, reporting the danger and potentially stopping the next atrocity. Pretending that extreme Islam is not a problem, or attempting to suppress sensitive information that should be in the public domain, is a danger in itself. Hope not hate. I hope 'the left' can acknowledge there is a problem, can discuss it openly, and work with the Muslim community to tackle it. Is that really too much to ask? Or is it easier for the left to label people who raise these concerns Nazis? It was people with 'legitimate concerns' that set fire to hotels, bricked Mosques, attached random blacks and looted shops. Proper Nazi behaviour. The communities seem more vigilant than ever from what I've seen, we've had referrals from Prevent regularly over the past 10 years which have come from community leaders. That's the way it should be of course, most of the time the concerning change in behaviour is health related and it's essential to have their (the communities) trust that it's dealt with sensitively. That's not just a job for 'the left' either. I won't look for the figures, but it's pretty safe to assume that you're more likely to be murdered by a non terrorism related crime, and if you're female it might multiply further *. I'm not particularly keen on statistics being suppressed, but I don't particularly trust that the interpretation of them by the (far) right will in any way be beneficial. *Edit. Have just had a quick look at some figures, apparently more males than females died through homicide (70%) year ending 2023 |
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Nov 2, 2024 10:22:30 GMT
'Keeping the general public safe should be the number one priority for any Government, so why do they hide this important information from the public?' How would releasing that information increase public safety? If the threat is known, then more people would be vigilant. There would be more chance of people, including moderate Muslims, reporting the danger and potentially stopping the next atrocity. Pretending that extreme Islam is not a problem, or attempting to suppress sensitive information that should be in the public domain, is a danger in itself. Hope not hate. I hope 'the left' can acknowledge there is a problem, can discuss it openly, and work with the Muslim community to tackle it. Is that really too much to ask? Or is it easier for the left to label people who raise these concerns Nazis? I hope you don't mind me replying to you Epping. My personal opinion is that only a fool would not recognise that "extremist" ideologies are not a threat to all of us. Of course within that sits Islamic extremism, currently front and centre. Something I fear will worsen with the current events in GAZA and Lebanon. The question is not, I don't think, do we recognise these threats or not, but more of what's the best way to handle it, to contain it and ultimately to defeat it. One of the key elements is to prevent "conflation". Conflation where information gathered by the authorities is leaked or openly discussed in media outlets and then translated by individuals to contort to their own beliefs or worse, used by power hungry pseudo politicians for their own gain or worse, by common violent thugs as an excuse for violence. The Rwandan boy/man who committed these dreadful crimes is a troubling one. Whatever his own grievances he is clearly deranged. Is there any evidence that he is a Muslim convert and was groomed by the extremists within that "faith" in order to encourage him to carry out these actual acts? I believe his parents, who he lives with are Christians. There is no way they would not have picked up on any such changes. So is this another sad case of a seriously deranged human being whose parents did not seek medical help over and ignored the clear signs? I suspect so. In those circumstances I don't have an answer or even a suggestion as to how we pick this up before a tragedy happens. Finally Epping you used the word "vigilant". Absolutely but how when obvious behaviours are not "obvious". The risk of being vigilant evolving into vigilante behaviour predicated upon false information and incorrect interpretation of information is great. Too great as we all witnessed in this terrible case which was subsequently made a lot worse (it couldn't possibly be worse for the parents of those poor children obviously) I suspect this deranged human being will be locked away and never released, not because he is a Muslim, not because he has black skin nor because his parents were immigrants. But because he is deranged and a danger to everyone. |
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