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Post by swissgas on Mar 1, 2024 16:34:01 GMT
Some say it's about time I was moved there but, no, this is about something else  Thanks to chewbacca on the other forum for pointing out that a grandstand at St Pauli's ground houses one of the biggest child daycare centres in Germany which ironically is called "The Pirate Nest". www.pestalozzi-kita.de/kita-hamburg-st-pauli/For anyone interested in a completely new and sustainable East Stand as opposed to just a hodge podge revamp with more seats this is very interesting. It's not my subject at all but a little bit of research reveals the St Pauli facility has 134 child places so a similar facility in the UK, with average cost of full time child care cost of £ 15000 pa, could potentially bring in revenue of £ 2 million pa - for someone ! The space requirement for 134 places is about 40 000 sq ft so with average office lease costs in Bristol being about £20 per sq ft anyone setting up a daycare facility of this size would have fixed location costs of £ 800K. Leaving £ 1.2 million pa for running costs and profit. Looking at the UK market there are a number of chains operating multiple child daycare centres and it's a growing market with a great deal of acquisition activity. But the most important nugget of information I gleaned is that these operators are backed by private equity funds who must see this market as attractive and are willing to provide risk capital. One operator I looked at, Kids Planet, has sales of £ 108 million and is veering between profit and loss but it's backers clearly recognise potential in the business sector. And interestingly 70% of it's units are leased rather than owned so the private equity firms are investing on the business and its future rather than its fixed assets and balance sheet. If Rovers came up with a plan to incorporate a large day care facility within a new East Stand then the potential revenue from leasing this space could be £ 800 000 pa. If we talked to some of the major chains and their private equity partners about this we could potentially reach a deal for, say, a ten year lease valued at £ 8 million with, say, three years paid up front to contribute £ 2.4 million towards the construction cost. And with the remaining seven years lease payments forming part of the security, together with other revenue streams to be incorporated in the stand, a business case could probably be made for financing the remaining cost at competitive interest rates. Investigating this would provide Abdullatif with a perfect chance to pursue his football interests by making contact with St Pauli and asking if he could make a visit there to learn more about their day care operation. Not just a photo opportunity but a real business discussion with good preparation and a carefully selected list of questions. It may work or it may not but it must be worth a look. |
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Mar 1, 2024 20:33:43 GMT
I am very sorry to rain on your parade Swiss, but the one thing I do have considerable knowledge (other than the politics of Bristol Rovers FC) is childcare because my wife and I own and operate a day nursery with 63 places, so just under half of what you envisage. Childcare in the UK faces an existential crisis thanks to the government's ill thought out expansion of grant funded spaces in the UK which is underfunded and they expected the private sector to pick up the slack. If we followed your model, of trying to rent at the rate you suggest, we wouldn't be able to even open the doors and I don't believe a chain could operate on that basis either. Bluntly it's a non starter because the labour costs are so high as a percentage of turnover and the profits you envisage non-existent, based on the model you suggest. Your projected fees are on the low side, that is reality most nurseries including our own would charge more. The other thing is that you would need a secure outdoor space linked to the building and I think that would be difficult to achieve given the footprint of the ground. There would be a serious problem with night matches as well as most nurseries close at 6pm at the earliest and many now go as late as 7pm. You need pick up points and parking facilities for parents with the layout of the Mem it would be impossible to combine the two businesses and you couldn't knock out 10 Tuesday afternoons for parents per year, it just wouldn't work. Ofsted would have a serious issue around safe-guarding and security.
Edit:
I've just had a look at St Pauli, they run a facility that takes children up to the age of eight, which is completely different to the UK model of pre-school childcare which runs through to the age of five with 95% of children leaving when they are four.
Kind regards
John Malyckyj
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Post by swissgas on Mar 1, 2024 21:19:11 GMT
I am very sorry to rain on your parade Swiss, but the one thing I do have considerable knowledge (other than the politics of Bristol Rovers FC) is childcare because my wife and I own and operate a day nursery with 63 places, so just under half of what you envisage. Childcare in the UK faces an existential crisis thanks to the government's ill thought out expansion of grant funded spaces in the UK which is underfunded and they expected the private sector to pick up the slack. If we followed your model, of trying to rent at the rate you suggest, we wouldn't be able to even open the doors and I don't believe a chain could operate on that basis either. Bluntly it's a non starter because the labour costs are so high as a percentage of turnover and the profits you envisage non-existent, based on the model you suggest. Your projected fees are on the low side, that is reality most nurseries including our own would charge more. The other thing is that you would need a secure outdoor space linked to the building and I think that would be difficult to achieve given the footprint of the ground. There would be a serious problem with night matches as well as most nurseries close at 6pm at the earliest and many now go as late as 7pm. You need pick up points and parking facilities for parents with the layout of the Mem it would be impossible to combine the two businesses and you couldn't knock out 10 Tuesday afternoons for parents per year, it just wouldn't work. Ofsted would have a serious issue around safe-guarding and security. Edit: I've just had a look at St Pauli, they run a facility that takes children up to the age of eight, which is completely different to the UK model of pre-school childcare which runs through to the age of five with 95% of children leaving when they are four. Kind regards John Malyckyj I appreciate your inside knowledge John and relish the kind of challenge to the idea which you’ve presented. In fact my business career started when I looked into doing something which was being done successfully in Europe but was apparently impossible to do in the UK until it was proven that it could be done. The point is that if you don’t look into these things you never find out and knowing that St Pauli appear to do it successfully I think it would be worth talking to them and talking to the bigger UK chains to see if it is worth pursuing further. It may not be but as far as I can tell UK private equity funds are investing into this market and its always good to follow the money. It may be that they are aware of the existential crisis but foresee a solution in the future, perhaps with a change of Government, and that’s why they are funding the chains to make astute acquisitions now. It’s not my subject and you may well be right but I think Rovers should show more imagination ( see my idea for an Integrated Retirement Community / Sports Science Park at the Quarters) and think outside of the box rather than always “ hoping” it will work out and relying on bravado to carry people with them as seemed to be the case last night. |
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Mar 1, 2024 21:43:19 GMT
I am very sorry to rain on your parade Swiss, but the one thing I do have considerable knowledge (other than the politics of Bristol Rovers FC) is childcare because my wife and I own and operate a day nursery with 63 places, so just under half of what you envisage. Childcare in the UK faces an existential crisis thanks to the government's ill thought out expansion of grant funded spaces in the UK which is underfunded and they expected the private sector to pick up the slack. If we followed your model, of trying to rent at the rate you suggest, we wouldn't be able to even open the doors and I don't believe a chain could operate on that basis either. Bluntly it's a non starter because the labour costs are so high as a percentage of turnover and the profits you envisage non-existent, based on the model you suggest. Your projected fees are on the low side, that is reality most nurseries including our own would charge more. The other thing is that you would need a secure outdoor space linked to the building and I think that would be difficult to achieve given the footprint of the ground. There would be a serious problem with night matches as well as most nurseries close at 6pm at the earliest and many now go as late as 7pm. You need pick up points and parking facilities for parents with the layout of the Mem it would be impossible to combine the two businesses and you couldn't knock out 10 Tuesday afternoons for parents per year, it just wouldn't work. Ofsted would have a serious issue around safe-guarding and security. Edit: I've just had a look at St Pauli, they run a facility that takes children up to the age of eight, which is completely different to the UK model of pre-school childcare which runs through to the age of five with 95% of children leaving when they are four. Kind regards John Malyckyj I appreciate your inside knowledge John and relish the kind of challenge to the idea which you’ve presented. In fact my business career started when I looked into doing something which was being done successfully in Europe but was apparently impossible to do in the UK until it was proven that it could be done. The point is that if you don’t look into these things you never find out and knowing that St Pauli appear to do it successfully I think it would be worth talking to them and talking to the bigger UK chains to see if it is worth pursuing further. It may not be but as far as I can tell UK private equity funds are investing into this market and its always good to follow the money. It may be that they are aware of the existential crisis but foresee a solution in the future, perhaps with a change of Government, and that’s why they are funding the chains to make astute acquisitions now. It’s not my subject and you may well be right but I think Rovers should show more imagination ( see my idea for an Integrated Retirement Community / Sports Science Park at the Quarters) and think outside of the box rather than always “ hoping” it will work out and relying on bravado to carry people with them as seemed to be the case last night. You might have a better chance to run such a facility at The Quarters, with a number of business hubs within it's catchment area, you would have easily accessible outdoor space which would be a real selling point. Rovers could run it themselves and it would be a goer, but charging a business to operate at the rental levels you suggest wouldn't work. Childcare in the UK is highly regulated with safeguarding at the top of the tree, there are fixed staff ratio levels that you have to work to which make the labour costs as a percentage of turnover so high. I don't know how it operates in Germany but the issues around access and security on evening matchdays would be a serious issue at the Mem. I know what our numbers are and what you need to do to operate at a profitable level, with the greatest of respect what you envisage simply wouldn't work unless you doubled the fees you charged and that would be a non-starter. Kind regards John Malyckyj |
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Mar 2, 2024 5:54:14 GMT
The day the club starts making a profit from essential child education and proper upbringing is the day I close the door on it.
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