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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 8:53:36 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 28, 2024 8:53:36 GMT
That needs responding to Nobby. Before I do, are those your words Nobby? Or have you copied something into your post? Yes, all my own words.
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 8:55:12 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 28, 2024 8:55:12 GMT
I could have written that, but sadly I'm not as articulate. A debate needs to be had about the increasing influence of Muslim extremism in our society. Calling for that debate is not racist. There is only one party willing to discuss this problem (and yes, it is a problem) - Reform. So Epping "As a society we have to have a mature discussion about how we want our country to progress and develop. Lee Anderson has been dropped by the Tory Party, but in reality nothing he said was racist." Do you believe that Sadiq Khan, as Mayor of London and democratically elected as such, is under the control of Islamists? Do you believe that indeed London itself is controlled by Islamists? That is the claim made by Lee Anderson. He may have said those things, but it's not being racist! Isn't this the country of free speech? We allow pro-Palestinian hate filled protests to take part in our cities every weekend. This guy has been kicked out of his party for voicing his opinion. This is exactly what concerns people. On the one hand we allow extremists to spout their bile openly, and on the other a bloke who just voiced his opinion regarding Islam is castigated.
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 9:16:04 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 28, 2024 9:16:04 GMT
"Security measures for MPs will be bolstered with a £31m package including a dedicated police contact for elected politicians to liaise with over safety issues, the Home Office has said. MPs will have a dedicated police contact for safety issues as part of a £31m package to boost security measures for elected politicians. Home Secretary James Cleverley said no MP should have to accept threats as "part of the job", following fears some have been targeted by demonstrators demanding an end to fighting in Gaza. Pro-Palestinian protesters gathered outside the home of Tory backbencher Tobias Ellwood earlier this month - with police warning his family to "stay away" as arriving could "antagonise" the situation. Dorset Police said officers attended the scene to ensure people could exercise their right to protest legally and safely without causing significant or ongoing serious public disorder.It also comes after the House of Commons Speaker broke with precedent last week out of concern for MP safety during a vote related to the war in the Middle East." Sky News
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 9:18:18 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 28, 2024 9:18:18 GMT
The family were told to stay away from their own home because they may "antagonise" the situation." ? Really?
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 9:28:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Feb 28, 2024 9:28:30 GMT
So Epping "As a society we have to have a mature discussion about how we want our country to progress and develop. Lee Anderson has been dropped by the Tory Party, but in reality nothing he said was racist." Do you believe that Sadiq Khan, as Mayor of London and democratically elected as such, is under the control of Islamists? Do you believe that indeed London itself is controlled by Islamists? That is the claim made by Lee Anderson. He may have said those things, but it's not being racist! Isn't this the country of free speech? We allow pro-Palestinian hate filled protests to take part in our cities every weekend. This guy has been kicked out of his party for voicing his opinion. This is exactly what concerns people. On the one hand we allow extremists to spout their bile openly, and on the other a bloke who just voiced his opinion regarding Islam is castigated. It's absolutely not racist if he, Anderson, has any evidence whatsoever to back up those remarks. If he does not, then it is racist and Islamaphobic. I don't know, it I bet he does not. Not a scrap. Happy to be proved wrong... anyone?
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 9:30:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Feb 28, 2024 9:30:28 GMT
That needs responding to Nobby. Before I do, are those your words Nobby? Or have you copied something into your post? Yes, all my own words. Fair play.
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 9:31:58 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 28, 2024 9:31:58 GMT
Some good ideas here?
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Post by oldie on Feb 28, 2024 9:34:51 GMT
Never much mention of this acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:fbddbb3d-d710-4b9c-a662-82b523ea69b4"The threat from Extreme Right-Wing Terrorism is on an upward trajectory, populated by an increasing number of young people and driven by the internet. There are reports that groups and individuals have sought to co-opt the Covid-19 pandemic, using conspiracy theories and exploiting grievances to radicalise and recruit. While the full impact of the global pandemic has yet to be seen, we are assured that the Intelligence Community and the police have recognised the impact that events such as the pandemic and the Black Lives Matter protests may have had on the extremist beliefs of individuals and the possibility that this will lead to an increase in the threat. However we were seriously concerned to find that MI5 have had to absorb responsibility for tackling Extreme Right-Wing Terrorism without any commensurate resources. They cannot be expected simply to absorb this new responsibility. MI5 must be given additional funding to enable it to tackle Extreme Right-Wing Terrorism without other areas of their work suffering as a consequence.” From a couple of years ago
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 9:37:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Feb 28, 2024 9:37:22 GMT
Some good ideas here? None. No context and zero effort at cash flow forecasting. Just a list,a list containing dog whistles and right wing tropes.
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 9:40:44 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 28, 2024 9:40:44 GMT
He may have said those things, but it's not being racist! Isn't this the country of free speech? We allow pro-Palestinian hate filled protests to take part in our cities every weekend. This guy has been kicked out of his party for voicing his opinion. This is exactly what concerns people. On the one hand we allow extremists to spout their bile openly, and on the other a bloke who just voiced his opinion regarding Islam is castigated. It's absolutely not racist if he, Anderson, has any evidence whatsoever to back up those remarks. If he does not, then it is racist and Islamaphobic. I don't know, it I bet he does not. Not a scrap. Happy to be proved wrong... anyone? You are part of the problem Oldie. It's not about proving you wrong! Just because you don't like what he said you use the racist card and also shout Islamaphobia to shut down any discussion, and that is the problem. By the way I am not defending Anderson. He's an ex-Labour MP who switched to the Tories, and now he's talking of switching to Reform. Totally unreliable.
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 9:48:31 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 28, 2024 9:48:31 GMT
Never much mention of this acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:fbddbb3d-d710-4b9c-a662-82b523ea69b4"The threat from Extreme Right-Wing Terrorism is on an upward trajectory, populated by an increasing number of young people and driven by the internet. There are reports that groups and individuals have sought to co-opt the Covid-19 pandemic, using conspiracy theories and exploiting grievances to radicalise and recruit. While the full impact of the global pandemic has yet to be seen, we are assured that the Intelligence Community and the police have recognised the impact that events such as the pandemic and the Black Lives Matter protests may have had on the extremist beliefs of individuals and the possibility that this will lead to an increase in the threat. However we were seriously concerned to find that MI5 have had to absorb responsibility for tackling Extreme Right-Wing Terrorism without any commensurate resources. They cannot be expected simply to absorb this new responsibility. MI5 must be given additional funding to enable it to tackle Extreme Right-Wing Terrorism without other areas of their work suffering as a consequence.” From a couple of years ago Ah yes. Let's try to deflect and bring up Right-Wing Extremism. Yes, there are a few oddballs out there. There always are in any society, but what people are seeing is what needs to be addressed. To even compare the right-wing threat with the Islamic threat is pure nonsense. Andrew Neil on X:- "The journalist, widely regarded as the UK's toughest political interrogator, warned the country is "drifting" and "unhappy". Andrew Neil has warned of a "dangerous vacuum" developing in UK politics. The veteran broadcaster said the UK is in a "morass" and "desperate for strong leadership and guidance". He said the public has "lost faith" in institutions like the police, while there is "despair" at Westminster over its priorities such as the "obsession" with Lee Anderson who is at the centre of an Islamophobia row. But Mr Neil said Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer are "incapable of speaking up for the moderate majority". In a post on social media platform X, Mr Neil said: "The UK is drifting, unhappy, losing faith in previously respected institutions (like the police), buffeted by extremists (often allowed to run amok), dismayed by decline, angry at the inability of the political class to do anything about it, despairing that the Westminster politico/media bubble pursues an agenda, issues and priorities (look at the obsession with Lee Anderson) which are not most people’s — and had enough of being lectured to by a disconnected, de haut en bas chattering class. "Yet we have a Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition incapable of speaking up for the moderate majority, who still have pride in their country and are desperate for strong leadership and guidance through the current morass — plus some hope/sign things will get better — all within the bounds of traditional British tolerance and fair play. This vacuum is dangerous."
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,600
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 12:14:50 GMT
Post by eppinggas on Feb 28, 2024 12:14:50 GMT
It's absolutely not racist if he, Anderson, has any evidence whatsoever to back up those remarks. If he does not, then it is racist and Islamaphobic. I don't know, it I bet he does not. Not a scrap. Happy to be proved wrong... anyone? You are part of the problem Oldie. It's not about proving you wrong! Just because you don't like what he said you use the racist card and also shout Islamaphobia to shut down any discussion, and that is the problem. By the way I am not defending Anderson. He's an ex-Labour MP who switched to the Tories, and now he's talking of switching to Reform. Totally unreliable. Just because you don't like what he said you use the racist card and also shout Islamaphobia to shut down any discussion, and that is the problem.
100% Exactly this. I found the 'block' button useful for this particular Forum user, which is a shame.
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 12:33:22 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 28, 2024 12:33:22 GMT
Some good ideas here? None. No context and zero effort at cash flow forecasting. Just a list,a list containing dog whistles and right wing tropes. I think there are some very good points raised there. Why don't you tell us which ones you don't like? It's called debate.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Reform
Feb 28, 2024 17:37:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Feb 28, 2024 17:37:16 GMT
It's absolutely not racist if he, Anderson, has any evidence whatsoever to back up those remarks. If he does not, then it is racist and Islamaphobic. I don't know, it I bet he does not. Not a scrap. Happy to be proved wrong... anyone? You are part of the problem Oldie. It's not about proving you wrong! Just because you don't like what he said you use the racist card and also shout Islamaphobia to shut down any discussion, and that is the problem. By the way I am not defending Anderson. He's an ex-Labour MP who switched to the Tories, and now he's talking of switching to Reform. Totally unreliable. I didn't use any card. You claimed his comments were not racist and I agreed, if Anderson can produce evidence to back up his claim that Khan is under the control of Islamists. He has not, he cannot, because it's not true. If demanding that public figures who make statements like that be prepared to stand by what they say and produce the evidence, then yes, I am very much part of the problem. What's the alternative, blind faith? Isn't that what religious extremists demand? Blind, unquestioning adherence? Not me.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,600
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Reform
Feb 29, 2024 10:08:13 GMT
Post by eppinggas on Feb 29, 2024 10:08:13 GMT
None. No context and zero effort at cash flow forecasting. Just a list,a list containing dog whistles and right wing tropes. I think there are some very good points raised there. Why don't you tell us which ones you don't like? It's called debate. If there is no attempt to debate, and no attempt to consider an opposing view, then it is a waste of time trying to engage.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,600
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Reform
Feb 29, 2024 10:18:55 GMT
Post by eppinggas on Feb 29, 2024 10:18:55 GMT
The family were told to stay away from their own home because they may "antagonise" the situation." ? Really? Yup. The protesters disturbing the peace (a criminal offence), blocking the pavement (criminal offence) and abusing the family (criminal offence) are the true victims here. Obvious isn't it. The Police don't need 'more powers'. They have plenty to chose from and do not use them. Source. Ex-Met Police officer who knew how to enforce the law. When the Police owned the streets.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Reform
Feb 29, 2024 15:29:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Feb 29, 2024 15:29:47 GMT
I think there are some very good points raised there. Why don't you tell us which ones you don't like? It's called debate. If there is no attempt to debate, and no attempt to consider an opposing view, then it is a waste of time trying to engage. I will debate, but nobody raises a debating point. I say the Reform policies will cause a ballooning of the PSBR, Nobby says they won't do it straight away. But never says when, no forecasting, no hint of how they will phase their proposals. There is no technical point to debate. Other Reform supporters say nothing at all It's laughable
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
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Reform
Feb 29, 2024 15:32:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by oldie on Feb 29, 2024 15:32:19 GMT
The family were told to stay away from their own home because they may "antagonise" the situation." ? Really? Yup. The protesters disturbing the peace (a criminal offence), blocking the pavement (criminal offence) and abusing the family (criminal offence) are the true victims here. Obvious isn't it. The Police don't need 'more powers'. They have plenty to chose from and do not use them. Source. Ex-Met Police officer who knew how to enforce the law. When the Police owned the streets. Out of interest, what is the Reform Party proposal to correct this? Out of interest, can anyone quote it?
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Reform
Feb 29, 2024 18:22:34 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 29, 2024 18:22:34 GMT
Oldie, your response to the list of things in the Reform manifesto was "No context and zero effort at cash flow forecasting. Just a list,a list containing dog whistles and right wing tropes.". You made no attempt to debate any of the points raised.
Can you tell us what policies you think are 'dog whistles' and which are 'right-wing tropes' ?
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Reform
Feb 29, 2024 18:23:48 GMT
Post by Nobbygas on Feb 29, 2024 18:23:48 GMT
Yup. The protesters disturbing the peace (a criminal offence), blocking the pavement (criminal offence) and abusing the family (criminal offence) are the true victims here. Obvious isn't it. The Police don't need 'more powers'. They have plenty to chose from and do not use them. Source. Ex-Met Police officer who knew how to enforce the law. When the Police owned the streets. Out of interest, what is the Reform Party proposal to correct this? Out of interest, can anyone quote it? Oldie, I'm pretty sure you are aware that Reform do not have the answer to every question you raise. Or, I could ask you, what are the Labour and Tory proposals to correct this? Can you quote them?
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