phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Feb 10, 2024 19:10:41 GMT
Another predictable home defeat and lacklustre performance today against Burton. We just can't put "lower" teams to the sword. It's been like this for the last two years.
Our defence and midfield have been ravaged by injuries all season. This has meant that we rarely begin games with the same team as the previous match, which doesn't help build spirit or understanding.
(I know all teams get injuries, but I don't think we should overlook the significance of ours).
However, I've suspected for a long time that there's been another reason - something psychological - that has explained this pattern of results, particularly at home.
I now think that Matt Taylor has identified it.
In his post-match interview, he says "We can't hide away from the fact that, every time we come up against this type of challenge, we fall short."
"In a certain type of game, a less 'clean' game you might say, where it's a little bit more 'back-to-front' and a bit of physicality is needed, we're short in that department. We have a chance one end of the pitch, miss the target and the ball goes out of play for a goal kick. More than likely - ten seconds later - we're defending our box. That happens every single time: whether it's a long throw, or another set piece, or whether it's an unchallenged ball in the middle of the pitch. Regardless of who I've changed personnel-wise, the outcome is still the same. I've been jumping to different formations and different solutions, but - I guarantee - it won't change. It won't change because, unfortunately, the nature of the squad, the 'DNA' of the squad, is not to go towards the ball. We're not capable of doing that. So, we're going to have to find a way of protecting them (the team), but I can't protect against a goal kick".
"That's a clear weakness and it seems to have been there for longer than just this season, in relation to everyone saying that 'Bristol Rovers do well against the big teams on a clean pitch in a clean game of football and then get beaten by the bottom-half teams in a certain type of game. That is going to be down to recruitment at the end of the season. This group of players can get better at it. We are working with them every single day to recognise it (the problem)".
"The second goal (today) from a goal kick. Suddenly, the ball's in the back of our net. It drives me absolutely mad."
"People talk a lot about the shirt... but, when the ball's there, you have to challenge"
"I've tried my hardest to be consistent, in terms of giving players a chance. Now, every single game like this (when we get beaten), I have to change it. I have to be seen to change it."
"We're capable of more, but the game is constantly telling us where we're weak"
"We were chasing the game with the same attacking patterns: no ball-speed, no end-moments"
"We're so leaky, it's disgraceful"
"Can we take those moments of an opposition long-ball out of the equation? We can't. We cannot do that. Can we take a second ball out of the middle of the pitch? Can we take a set-piece moment? We can't do that. Those are the bare essentials of lower-league football and it's just not been valued enough in all departments for too long at this football club. It is being valued now".
At last!
This erudite and considered response to some probing and apposite questioning reassures me that Taylor will do a good job for us - given time. Finally, we have a manager identifying the root (psychological) causes of our on-pitch problems. Unfortunately, in my opinion, they all stem from the culture created by the previous manager, who openly mocked other teams (and managers, like Steve Evans and Steve Cotterill) for their 'outdated playing styles'. Yet, they got results for their squads. Their teams (Stevenage and Shrewsbury) were greater than the sum of their parts. Ours is the opposite - currently.
If you can identify a problem, you can start to solve it.
Let's hope this is the beginning of that process.
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Post by swissgas on Feb 10, 2024 19:43:00 GMT
I think you are absolutely correct Phil.
If you remember when the Barton philosophy was questioned we were told it was a long term plan and he was assembling a squad capable of playing a style of football which would allow Rovers to compete in the Championship when we got there.
When a few raised our heads over the parapet and questioned whether Barton’s style of football would ever be physical or aggressive enough to actually get us to the next level we got short shrift and we’re told it was the best football Rovers had played since 1884 so critics should shut up and enjoy it.
Perhaps a more telling questioning of the philosophy was when it was pointed out that about a third of the first team were loans so would not be with us in the Championship anyway and another third we’re aging players who could no longer compete in the Championship so had been forced to drop down to League 1.
But at Rovers we have been conditioned to “ always believe” no matter how ludicrous it is.
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knobrot
Joined: December 2023
Posts: 67
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Post by knobrot on Feb 10, 2024 20:50:33 GMT
Agree with all of the above and would add that the unrealistic expectations for at least a play off place are adding crushing pressure that these players cannot cope with. I supported Barton but it becomes more obvious as each game passes that he was full of crap. I’m extremely concerned that if this situation continues we will struggle to close out this season with enough points to stay up. Time must be taken to reassess the situation, bollocks to the top ten that pressure needs to go to be replaced by the realistic route of getting through this season with our league one status intact.
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syg
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,070 
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Post by syg on Feb 10, 2024 22:55:21 GMT
Crikey, this level of articulation on a football forum.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,538
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Post by TaiwanGas on Feb 11, 2024 1:01:30 GMT
We did exactly what MT is describing under G.Coughlan.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Feb 11, 2024 9:40:25 GMT
Nice op.
I think our off the ball set up is awful.
Just marginally worse than our on the ball strategy...
It's a recipe for disaster.
Everyone looks at each other - probably working out friend or foe - and statues don't make too many counter attacks, triangle passing or stopping shots and crosses .
Grim. But identifying the problem, what is MT gonna do about it?
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knobrot
Joined: December 2023
Posts: 67
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Post by knobrot on Feb 11, 2024 11:31:16 GMT
Nice op. I think our off the ball set up is awful. Just marginally worse than our on the ball strategy... It's a recipe for disaster. Everyone looks at each other - probably working out friend or foe - and statues don't make too many counter attacks, triangle passing or stopping shots and crosses . Grim. But identifying the problem, what is MT gonna do about it? In simple terms this will bring extreme scrutiny on the new owners. In terms Matt Taylor is exposing the situation for what it is. The business needs massive investment with a clear and easily scrutinised plan for both the playing side and upgrading the facilities. We are talking tens of millions which requiring permission to buy jars of coffee aren’t going to raise. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,540
Member is Online
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Post by oldie on Feb 11, 2024 12:35:43 GMT
Nice op. I think our off the ball set up is awful. Just marginally worse than our on the ball strategy... It's a recipe for disaster. Everyone looks at each other - probably working out friend or foe - and statues don't make too many counter attacks, triangle passing or stopping shots and crosses . Grim. But identifying the problem, what is MT gonna do about it? In simple terms this will bring extreme scrutiny on the new owners. In terms Matt Taylor is exposing the situation for what it is. The business needs massive investment with a clear and easily scrutinised plan for both the playing side and upgrading the facilities. We are talking tens of millions which requiring permission to buy jars of coffee aren’t going to raise. Thats easy to say. But the reality is there is nobody around to pump in £10s of millions and then write that off. The realistic approach will be to set a target of "staying up" and being honest in communication with fans. I fear that staying up is more likely than honest communication. The club, it appears to me, needs a rebuild, on and off the pitch. I am totally unconvinced with the current ownership, 60/40 Kuwaitis and Wael. Let's be honest, we have no idea what the deal between them is, whether the Kuwaitis are just carrying on with Wael's fantasies. Wael started this precipitous decline when he mislead DC and then forced him out. It's been rank chaos ever since, Barton being at the worse of that chaos. Now where are we? We appoint a new manager then take a couple of months to appoint his team...who does that? The board of directors need a revamp, install people who know what they are doing. Shareholders to stand back and let them do it. Stay up, provide £a couple of million, to rebuild the squad with a style, fit for L1, that allows us to compete in the top ten. And, stop lying, fantasising about new grounds or ground development. The new south stand is a classic example. No capital to build it so we borrowed, again. No management skills to develop and build it, so we embarrassed ourselves. Quite frankly it's pathetic. Pure comedic amateur hour. |
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harold
Joined: February 2024
Posts: 20
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Post by harold on Feb 11, 2024 12:39:10 GMT
He can make all the excuses in the world but the fact remains it is his job to get the tactics and team selection right and to motivate the players none of which he is achieving. The jury is still out on MT but the signs are not encouraging.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 11, 2024 12:42:34 GMT
In simple terms this will bring extreme scrutiny on the new owners. In terms Matt Taylor is exposing the situation for what it is. The business needs massive investment with a clear and easily scrutinised plan for both the playing side and upgrading the facilities. We are talking tens of millions which requiring permission to buy jars of coffee aren’t going to raise. Thats easy to say. But the reality is there is nobody around to pump in £10s of millions and then write that off. The realistic approach will be to set a target of "staying up" and being honest in communication with fans. I fear that staying up is more likely than honest communication. The club, it appears to me, needs a rebuild, on and off the pitch. I am totally unconvinced with the current ownership, 60/40 Kuwaitis and Wael. Let's be honest, we have no idea what the deal between them is, whether the Kuwaitis are just carrying on with Wael's fantasies. Wael started this precipitous decline when he mislead DC and then forced him out. It's been rank chaos ever since, B***** being at the worse of that chaos. Now where are we? We appoint a new manager then take a couple of months to appoint his team...who does that? The board of directors need a revamp, install people who know what they are doing. Shareholders to stand back and let them do it. Stay up, provide £a couple of million, to rebuild the squad with a style, fit for L1, that allows us to compete in the top ten. And, stop lying, fantasising about new grounds or ground development. The new south stand is a classic example. No capital to build it so we borrowed, again. No management skills to develop and build it, so we embarrassed ourselves. Quite frankly it's pathetic. Pure comedic amateur hour. Nailed it. Tin pot Rovers with piss poor owners, again. |
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Post by swissgas on Feb 11, 2024 16:10:21 GMT
This thread has the potential to evolve into the kind of discussion frequently found on other clubs forums but which is rare at Rovers.
A discussion where we analyse what is wrong with the club and put forward ideas for improvement without the whole thing descending into a “ F off down Ashton Gate” stalemate.
I’m not a big believer in the “ Rovers DNA” concept which I think was another tool designed to deceive fans but I do think there are certain characteristics which differentiate us from our main rivals and which we need to exploit. In Matt Taylor, Jamie McAllister and Wayne Carlisle we have three genuine football people who fit the Rovers mould and the question is whether we are going to use them properly or lose them and then take the usual “easy get out” step of blaming them.
The OP points out that Matt Taylor has identified the squad problem which is the first step towards solving it and he hopes that process will now begin.
But hoping is not enough if we really want a long term solution. The problems we have run far deeper than the playing squad and these problems are not with financial investment they are with intellectual investment. If we don’t think sufficiently about what we are doing then the Al- Saeed money will go the same way as the Al- Qadi money which is down the drain or, to put it another way, into the players and agents pockets. If we want to succeed in the long term we first have to stop talk of wasting money on unnecessary extra capacity in the East Stand and of having a spending spree in the Summer. Because we need a much better plan than that.
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knobrot
Joined: December 2023
Posts: 67
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Post by knobrot on Feb 11, 2024 18:13:45 GMT
This thread has the potential to evolve into the kind of discussion frequently found on other clubs forums but which is rare at Rovers. A discussion where we analyse what is wrong with the club and put forward ideas for improvement without the whole thing descending into a “ F off down Ashton Gate” stalemate. I’m not a big believer in the “ Rovers DNA” concept which I think was another tool designed to deceive fans but I do think there are certain characteristics which differentiate us from our main rivals and which we need to exploit. In Matt Taylor, Jamie McAllister and Wayne Carlisle we have three genuine football people who fit the Rovers mould and the question is whether we are going to use them properly or lose them and then take the usual “easy get out” step of blaming them. The OP points out that Matt Taylor has identified the squad problem which is the first step towards solving it and he hopes that process will now begin. But hoping is not enough if we really want a long term solution. The problems we have run far deeper than the playing squad and these problems are not with financial investment they are with intellectual investment. If we don’t think sufficiently about what we are doing then the Al- Saeed money will go the same way as the Al- Qadi money which is down the drain or, to put it another way, into the players and agents pockets. If we want to succeed in the long term we first have to stop talk of wasting money on unnecessary extra capacity in the East Stand and of having a spending spree in the Summer. Because we need a much better plan than that. Agreed. That means that proactive planning has to replace reactive knee jerk back of a fag packet panic. What is the goal here?, no one knows. If the project is to gain and maintain championship football that will require upgrading the facilities to a level producing the income required. We also require our own production line of players with a proper academy. The current ownership are following the age old line of keeping their patrons in the manner you would do with mushrooms, that is , keep us in the dark and feed us s**t. We apparently reported a loss in excess of £3,000,000+ recently an astonishing indictment of the clowns running the outfit. You are correct in the assertion that we are a different kettle of fish as supporters compared to many other clubs evidenced by the crap we’ve endured while being taken for granted and still we turn up hoping that we will experience something better. A business must be invested in with strategic short, medium and long term openly measurable goals not operating in what would be deemed both fraudulent and financially inept in any other discipline. Your intellectual point is well made but what does the Al-Saeed money amount to?, the current ‘cost cutting’ measures apparently being imposed on staff requiring them to clear petty cash purchases would suggest that it won’t amount to much. We are certainly one of the archaic type of clubs that operates on the basis its customers are not allowed to know in any shape or form what they are buying. The days of novelty owners are long gone, having a football club as some sort of trophy to wine and dine your mates has always resulted in disaster when the losses become untenable. |
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Post by swissgas on Feb 11, 2024 21:05:47 GMT
This thread has the potential to evolve into the kind of discussion frequently found on other clubs forums but which is rare at Rovers. A discussion where we analyse what is wrong with the club and put forward ideas for improvement without the whole thing descending into a “ F off down Ashton Gate” stalemate. I’m not a big believer in the “ Rovers DNA” concept which I think was another tool designed to deceive fans but I do think there are certain characteristics which differentiate us from our main rivals and which we need to exploit. In Matt Taylor, Jamie McAllister and Wayne Carlisle we have three genuine football people who fit the Rovers mould and the question is whether we are going to use them properly or lose them and then take the usual “easy get out” step of blaming them. The OP points out that Matt Taylor has identified the squad problem which is the first step towards solving it and he hopes that process will now begin. But hoping is not enough if we really want a long term solution. The problems we have run far deeper than the playing squad and these problems are not with financial investment they are with intellectual investment. If we don’t think sufficiently about what we are doing then the Al- Saeed money will go the same way as the Al- Qadi money which is down the drain or, to put it another way, into the players and agents pockets. If we want to succeed in the long term we first have to stop talk of wasting money on unnecessary extra capacity in the East Stand and of having a spending spree in the Summer. Because we need a much better plan than that. Agreed. That means that proactive planning has to replace reactive knee jerk back of a fag packet panic. What is the goal here?, no one knows. If the project is to gain and maintain championship football that will require upgrading the facilities to a level producing the income required. We also require our own production line of players with a proper academy. The current ownership are following the age old line of keeping their patrons in the manner you would do with mushrooms, that is , keep us in the dark and feed us s**t. We apparently reported a loss in excess of £3,000,000+ recently an astonishing indictment of the clowns running the outfit. You are correct in the assertion that we are a different kettle of fish as supporters compared to many other clubs evidenced by the crap we’ve endured while being taken for granted and still we turn up hoping that we will experience something better. A business must be invested in with strategic short, medium and long term openly measurable goals not operating in what would be deemed both fraudulent and financially inept in any other discipline. Your intellectual point is well made but what does the Al-Saeed money amount to?, the current ‘cost cutting’ measures apparently being imposed on staff requiring them to clear petty cash purchases would suggest that it won’t amount to much. We are certainly one of the archaic type of clubs that operates on the basis its customers are not allowed to know in any shape or form what they are buying. The days of novelty owners are long gone, having a football club as some sort of trophy to wine and dine your mates has always resulted in disaster when the losses become untenable. I’m afraid your final sentence about novelty owners does apply to Rovers. You ask “ what is the goal” and IMO it’s become very clear that Hussain’s goal was to buy a football club as an adventure for his son just as it was for Wael’s father. For us mere mortals it’s like buying a new bike for our son or daughter but the difference is that before letting them loose we would have made sure they were taught how to ride it safely and that they knew how to maintain it properly. Reverting to the OP, this issue of a squad created using a flawed philosophy should not come as a surprise to us. I don’t often post about team matters but remember saying that we were building an unbalanced squad with too many old players, too many injury prone players, relying on loanees as the core of the team and recruiting exclusively on technical ability rather than including some third division bruisers for balance. I very nearly mentioned Mark McChrystal and Stuart Sinclair and perhaps that would have given the posts more impact. But mentioning Mark and Stuart may well have brought the response “ we’ve moved on from there” which would not only have been missing the point but more importantly than that we’ve now discovered that we haven’t moved on at all. What we’ve actually done is created a barely competitive squad and an overhead base which is not only unsustainable but is completely unnecessary. The Burton Albion match report yesterday opened with “ the Academy graduate struck the first senior goal of his career”. Exeter City are one point behind us and their team is full of Academy graduates. We need to have a smarter plan where we develop a decent proportion of our own players either through the Academy or through astute signing of under valued players like Conteh. And as part of the plan to reduce overheads to a sustainable level we need to redirect resources towards areas which will benefit Rovers long term and away from the pockets of players and agents. But the owners do need to explain why cost cutting measures are necessary, where resources are being redirected and what the long term benefits of this will be. Otherwise every defeat and poor performance will pile the pressure on them and increase the chances of another panic move which will only hasten the spiral of decline. If they are making a stand then tell us about it and keep Gasheads onside |
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knobrot
Joined: December 2023
Posts: 67
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Post by knobrot on Feb 12, 2024 9:22:35 GMT
I’m afraid your final sentence about novelty owners does apply to Rovers. You ask “ what is the goal” and IMO it’s become very clear that Hussain’s goal was to buy a football club as an adventure for his son just as it was for Wael’s father. For us mere mortals it’s like buying a new bike for our son or daughter but the difference is that before letting them loose we would have made sure they were taught how to ride it safely and that they knew how to maintain it properly. Reverting to the OP, this issue of a squad created using a flawed philosophy should not come as a surprise to us. I don’t often post about team matters but remember saying that we were building an unbalanced squad with too many old players, too many injury prone players, relying on loanees as the core of the team and recruiting exclusively on technical ability rather than including some third division bruisers for balance. I very nearly mentioned Mark McChrystal and Stuart Sinclair and perhaps that would have given the posts more impact. But mentioning Mark and Stuart may well have brought the response “ we’ve moved on from there” which would not only have been missing the point but more importantly than that we’ve now discovered that we haven’t moved on at all. What we’ve actually done is created a barely competitive squad and an overhead base which is not only unsustainable but is completely unnecessary. The Burton Albion match report yesterday opened with “ the Academy graduate struck the first senior goal of his career”. Exeter City are one point behind us and their team is full of Academy graduates. We need to have a smarter plan where we develop a decent proportion of our own players either through the Academy or through astute signing of under valued players like Conteh. And as part of the plan to reduce overheads to a sustainable level we need to redirect resources towards areas which will benefit Rovers long term and away from the pockets of players and agents. But the owners do need to explain why cost cutting measures are necessary, where resources are being redirected and what the long term benefits of this will be. Otherwise every defeat and poor performance will pile the pressure on them and increase the chances of another panic move which will only hasten the spiral of decline. If they are making a stand then tell us about it and keep Gasheads onside Agreed, and thankfully I’ve worked how to put my narrative below yours properly. I’m not sure I should stick with Knobrot as Knobhead may be more appropriate. |
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