kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 14, 2024 9:59:18 GMT
I know this may sound controversial but my father, a bona fide war hero who never had a bad word for normal folk, had a deep distrust of Ukrainians, as did most Polish soldiers. The mass killings, in the most brutal fashion by their hero, even now in Bandera, was the most barbaric of things. This happened in the Wolyn area. They had 2 Cossack SS Units but also were capos in the nazi death camps and the destructive labour camps , in Siberia. I understand time has moved on but there is absolutely no denying the high amount of extreme right wing neo nazis in that country. one thing that i genuinely believe, it’s time to stop propping up a war that profits the armaments firms who only want profit, at any cost. My father could have easily had reason to hate on Germans and Russians but he said the people were decent but led by lunatics. My own opinion is that Zelensky is one of that type. I just hope and pray a peaceful end can be found. Russia has been provoked by the expansion of the EU and NATO, who promised not to expand onto Russian borders. I believe he is doing what he feels is right, when he sees his countries borders populated by these. As I said, many parts already only speak Russian. I think we are being scared into aiding a historically treacherous country. Emmmm So a bit of personal experience, for what it's worth. We took on Ukrainian refugee recently and I was tasked to train her as a deputy retail manager. Lovely lady of middle age with a late year's teenage daughter (also here). Naturally over the course of a couple of days the subject of the war came up. It turns out her first language was Russian and she had family on both sides of the border. Her most telling statement was that she felt confused because to her Ukraine / Russia was one country. However the horrors of war and what the Russians had done turned her head. In conversation though it did occur to me that once more we have a country caught between the so called liberal free markets of the west, which their young yearned for apparently, and the centralised State "top down" government of Russia. Could we, should we, have negotiated with Putin and for guaranteed peace given him Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk? Quite possibly. But would he have stopped? His attempt to intercede in the Ukrainian elections and put his man in power suggests not. KP, I think it is slightly ludicrous to position current day Ukrainians with that of their forefathers in the 1940s. As it would be if did that to present day Germans. It's 80 years ago. Either I have come to think it is not black and white, but I do believe that with Putin it is. Les, You say you cannot compare the generations from 1939 but why then, do they still view the butcher, Bandera as a hero ? The atrocities he led are all on record. There is murdering but then there is butchering, literally. The country has a large proportion of those who see him as the highest of heroes and have a huge statue, to remember him by. women were raped , many by multiples and then cut into pieces, children burned in closed off buildings nd men hung from trees and then sawed in half. Look up the Wolyn massacre and be prepared for some harrowing content. The orders were bullets only for Germans. I imagine you already know of this , there were other mass killings also. I do not believe the USA and its western allies should be the blueprint for all countries. You touched on something that is pertinent, the youth want McDonald’s and all the crap that we have. I have seen Poland change, its culture being forgotten by many and even my Polish Mrs cannot answer me on the countries history, I find that very sad. I would not wish this to be the norm, elsewhere. EDIT. the Germans, I lived and worked there from 90-mid 95. They are ashamed and contrite. Good people who have no statues of butchers nor other such people. There is a massive difference between the 2 countries
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 14, 2024 10:04:31 GMT
Apparently Ukraine are struggling to get people to go and fight on the front line , sending soldiers out on the streets to find conscription dodgers We hear of the massive number of soldiers are loosing , but very little of the Ukraine losses , must be massive as well Not sure where all this is going to end Do not poke the 🐻. There is only one outcome IMO , the Russians have millions of men plus they could escalate this as i sense Putin is now getting to a point where he could start using weapons that should scare all of us. Hypersonic being the first option. He has others, as you know
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Post by Nobbygas on Feb 14, 2024 10:54:22 GMT
Apparently Ukraine are struggling to get people to go and fight on the front line , sending soldiers out on the streets to find conscription dodgers We hear of the massive number of soldiers are loosing , but very little of the Ukraine losses , must be massive as well Not sure where all this is going to end Do not poke the 🐻. There is only one outcome IMO , the Russians have millions of men plus they could escalate this as i sense Putin is now getting to a point where he could start using weapons that should scare all of us. Hypersonic being the first option. He has others, as you know Do not poke the Bear? Are you serious? Are we meant to allow Russia to annex and invade any part of any other country in the future to avoid "poking the Bear"? Maybe they'll want Poland back eh. Should we allow that to avoid "poking the Bear" ? Hypersonic weapons are just the MSM's wet dream. They are not unstoppable and some have been intercepted.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 14, 2024 11:17:10 GMT
Do not poke the 🐻. There is only one outcome IMO , the Russians have millions of men plus they could escalate this as i sense Putin is now getting to a point where he could start using weapons that should scare all of us. Hypersonic being the first option. He has others, as you know Do not poke the Bear? Are you serious? Are we meant to allow Russia to annex and invade any part of any other country in the future to avoid "poking the Bear"? Maybe they'll want Poland back eh. Should we allow that to avoid "poking the Bear" ? Hypersonic weapons are just the MSM's wet dream. They are not unstoppable and some have been intercepted. Of course not but when JFK had weapons put on Cuba he reacted. I see nato and the eu as doing the same. For what it’s worth, I think Poland has been foolhardy. The USA are not to be trusted, as history will show. I do not believe Putin would attack but, if so, it would be because the government have been enabling Ukraine. Hypersonic is just the start of what Russia can use. I am trying to use the least damaging as an example
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,495
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Post by trymer on Feb 14, 2024 18:14:33 GMT
Do not poke the Bear? Are you serious? Are we meant to allow Russia to annex and invade any part of any other country in the future to avoid "poking the Bear"? Maybe they'll want Poland back eh. Should we allow that to avoid "poking the Bear" ? Hypersonic weapons are just the MSM's wet dream. They are not unstoppable and some have been intercepted. Of course not but when JFK had weapons put on Cuba he reacted. I see nato and the eu as doing the same. For what it’s worth, I think Poland has been foolhardy. The USA are not to be trusted, as history will show. I do not believe Putin would attack but, if so, it would be because the government have been enabling Ukraine. Hypersonic is just the start of what Russia can use. I am trying to use the least damaging as an example I agree that Russia was bound to get worried with talk of Ukraine being admitted to NATO and the possibilty of missiles/nukes in the country next door to them,as you say USA didnt fancy nukes in Cuba. The other thing that puzzles me is that during the Cold war the USSR was only part of the Warsaw pact military, look how small Russia is now in comparison yet NATO has grown in size immensely. I have wondered for a while if Putin wants a low level war in Ukraine for years to come as this stops Ukraine from joining NATO ?
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Ukraine
Feb 16, 2024 16:49:24 GMT
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Post by lostinspace on Feb 16, 2024 16:49:24 GMT
Tied into the Putin reign..his main long term opponent Alexie Navalny has " suddenly died" following his routine exercise period in his Siberian prison, another just eased out the way by this specimens honcho's... But nothing to do with him... obviously
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,495
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Post by trymer on Feb 17, 2024 9:01:20 GMT
Tied into the Putin reign..his main long term opponent Alexie Navalny has " suddenly died" following his routine exercise period in his Siberian prison, another just eased out the way by this specimens honcho's... But nothing to do with him... obviously In a dictatorship thats what happens to opponents,in democratic capitalist countries they use lawyers and judges to crucify and nobble the opposition in the courts. I think that Russia has always been the same,under communism they were always having purges and killing/imprisoning/banishing each other,under the Tsars the secret police knocked off anyone they didnt like (Rasputin) and I think a good few Tsars died before old age....life seems pretty cheap over there.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,495
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Post by trymer on Feb 17, 2024 9:10:57 GMT
Marvellous Marvi Rees was interviewd on the Radio 4 news yesterday lunchtime as he had met Navalny on some junket in the USA. Marvin mentioned several times that he was "the mayor of Bristol" he didnt mention that we voted to get rid of him and that he is STILL serving out his notice period.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,495
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Post by trymer on Feb 17, 2024 9:11:19 GMT
Marvellous Marvin Rees was interviewed on the Radio 4 news yesterday lunchtime as he had met Navalny on some junket in the USA. Marvin mentioned several times that he was "the mayor of Bristol" he didnt mention that we voted to get rid of him and that he is STILL serving out his notice period.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,377
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Ukraine
Feb 18, 2024 20:23:07 GMT
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Post by oldie on Feb 18, 2024 20:23:07 GMT
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
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Post by trymer on Feb 20, 2024 18:01:15 GMT
For the last 2 days the BBC have been blathering about the sanctions against Russia not working (I said that ages ago) 2 years ago they said Russia would be bankrupt by the summer, India and China loving all the oil that they are getting on the cheap.
BBC reporting today about a rebranded Wagner in Africa, they are getting gold and various raw materials, and stopping the West getting uranium, they are making Western politicians look stupid (well more stupid then). Need to realise that wars arent just fought with old tanks and AFVs on a battlefield somewhere, internet interference,destroyoing pipelines and cables,interfering with satellites in space are all part of modern conflicts....maybe funding or encouraging protest groups and causing community conflict in other countries is being weaponised.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 4,377
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Ukraine
Feb 20, 2024 19:28:13 GMT
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Post by oldie on Feb 20, 2024 19:28:13 GMT
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 12,571
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Post by bluetornados on Feb 25, 2024 22:06:07 GMT
Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia's full-scale invasion..By Kathryn Armstrong, BBC News.assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iahK.IH.NxFY/v1/1200x800.jpgVolodymyr Zelensky says 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed during Russia's full-scale invasion. The Ukrainian president said he would not give the number of wounded as that would help Russian military planning. Typically, Ukrainian officials do not make casualty figures public, and other estimates are much higher. It comes after the defence minister said half of all Western aid for Ukraine has been delayed, costing lives and territory. Mr Zelensky said on Sunday that he was providing an updated death toll in response to the inflated figures that Russia has quoted. "31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died in this war. Not 300,000 or 150,000, or whatever Putin and his lying circle are saying. But each of these losses is a great loss for us." Speaking about the wider losses in the war, Mr Zelensky said tens of thousands of civilians had died in the areas of Ukraine occupied by Russia but the true number was unknown. "I don't know how many of them died, how many were killed, how many were murdered, tortured, how many were deported." It is rare for Ukraine to provide a military death toll, and other estimates suggest a much higher number.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
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Post by trymer on Feb 26, 2024 9:52:40 GMT
Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia's full-scale invasion..By Kathryn Armstrong, BBC News.assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iahK.IH.NxFY/v1/1200x800.jpgVolodymyr Zelensky says 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed during Russia's full-scale invasion. The Ukrainian president said he would not give the number of wounded as that would help Russian military planning. Typically, Ukrainian officials do not make casualty figures public, and other estimates are much higher. It comes after the defence minister said half of all Western aid for Ukraine has been delayed, costing lives and territory. Mr Zelensky said on Sunday that he was providing an updated death toll in response to the inflated figures that Russia has quoted. "31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died in this war. Not 300,000 or 150,000, or whatever Putin and his lying circle are saying. But each of these losses is a great loss for us." Speaking about the wider losses in the war, Mr Zelensky said tens of thousands of civilians had died in the areas of Ukraine occupied by Russia but the true number was unknown. "I don't know how many of them died, how many were killed, how many were murdered, tortured, how many were deported." It is rare for Ukraine to provide a military death toll, and other estimates suggest a much higher number. Zelensky says 31,000 Uke soldiers have been killed since invasion started in 2022...US intelligence said at least 70,000 in a report last summer. Casualties who would have died because of having limbs blown off or severe burns can now be saved as medical services have improved immensely since WW1,WW2 or even Vietnam. I remember being at Farnborough in the 80s one of the blokes was talking to someone from weapons research and they were saying that they were developing weapons that would maim rather than kill,wounded servicemen take up resources,Russia have been using a LOT of small anti personnel mines (de-bollockers) that will blow legs etc off but with immediate care lives can be saved. I think that its improbable that less than 90/100,000 Uke soldiers have been killed but the figure that really counts is how many have been put out of action permanently through either death or disability ?
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,495
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Post by trymer on Feb 26, 2024 9:59:39 GMT
Interesting listening to 'the World at one' on Radio 4 yesterday...talking about how Putin planned all of this and took precautions against sanctions,the Russians now have a 'Kalashnikov economy',arms factories working around the clock,sanctions busting oil sales,how Putin wants a long war,the war could last 10 years,the Western alliance doesnt seem so strong...
In fact the exact opposite of what was being said 2 years ago !
One thing that I agree with Biden about is that the Western countries (politicians) promised to support Ukraine so they cant stop now, Trump says that USA has contributed $170 billion whilst EU countries have contributed $20 billion so the EU need to start getting their wallets out.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 26, 2024 11:08:05 GMT
Interesting listening to 'the World at one' on Radio 4 yesterday...talking about how Putin planned all of this and took precautions against sanctions,the Russians now have a 'Kalashnikov economy',arms factories working around the clock,sanctions busting oil sales,how Putin wants a long war,the war could last 10 years,the Western alliance doesnt seem so strong... In fact the exact opposite of what was being said 2 years ago ! One thing that I agree with Biden about is that the Western countries (politicians) promised to support Ukraine so they cant stop now, Trump says that USA has contributed $170 billion whilst EU countries have contributed $20 billion so the EU need to start getting their wallets out. At what cost ? The powers that be really should be looking for peace and not prolonging this, especially if you are right about Putin wanting a long conflict
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Ukraine
Feb 26, 2024 13:15:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by lostinspace on Feb 26, 2024 13:15:31 GMT
Interesting listening to 'the World at one' on Radio 4 yesterday...talking about how Putin planned all of this and took precautions against sanctions,the Russians now have a 'Kalashnikov economy',arms factories working around the clock,sanctions busting oil sales,how Putin wants a long war,the war could last 10 years,the Western alliance doesnt seem so strong... In fact the exact opposite of what was being said 2 years ago ! One thing that I agree with Biden about is that the Western countries (politicians) promised to support Ukraine so they cant stop now, Trump says that USA has contributed $170 billion whilst EU countries have contributed $20 billion so the EU need to start getting their wallets out. At what cost ? The powers that be really should be looking for peace and not prolonging this, especially if you are right about Putin wanting a long conflict Spewtin will only stop HIS WAR when.and only when he gets his land grab complete..not interested in any sort of ceasefire until then , with 400,000 dead and god knows how many injured he will send that amount in again until his 3 day war is over ..providing he has achieved his goal
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,495
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Post by trymer on Feb 26, 2024 14:23:35 GMT
Interesting listening to 'the World at one' on Radio 4 yesterday...talking about how Putin planned all of this and took precautions against sanctions,the Russians now have a 'Kalashnikov economy',arms factories working around the clock,sanctions busting oil sales,how Putin wants a long war,the war could last 10 years,the Western alliance doesnt seem so strong... In fact the exact opposite of what was being said 2 years ago ! One thing that I agree with Biden about is that the Western countries (politicians) promised to support Ukraine so they cant stop now, Trump says that USA has contributed $170 billion whilst EU countries have contributed $20 billion so the EU need to start getting their wallets out. At what cost ? The powers that be really should be looking for peace and not prolonging this, especially if you are right about Putin wanting a long conflict I think that he wants a long war (and according to the BBC the"experts" are saying so too...now !). A cease fire wont interest him at the moment because. Ukraine cant join NATO whilst the war continues. Western sanctions are damaging Western economies. Lots of countries are supporting Russia with armaments,and Russia is probably having a sphere of influence much bigger than before the war. Western unity is fraying more as time goes on....and they knew that it would. Russia has become a big player in Africa,the effect of this will not be good for the West. Russia is gradually eroding Ukrainian manpower. As I said the West committed to helping Ukraine and they cant stop now,not morally anyway...the EU need to pay up. With Russia now having a wartime economy I expect that there will be an arms race,so we can all prepare for higher taxes to get our defence force up together.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 27, 2024 11:48:29 GMT
At what cost ? The powers that be really should be looking for peace and not prolonging this, especially if you are right about Putin wanting a long conflict I think that he wants a long war (and according to the BBC the"experts" are saying so too...now !). A cease fire wont interest him at the moment because. Ukraine cant join NATO whilst the war continues. Western sanctions are damaging Western economies. Lots of countries are supporting Russia with armaments,and Russia is probably having a sphere of influence much bigger than before the war. Western unity is fraying more as time goes on....and they knew that it would. Russia has become a big player in Africa,the effect of this will not be good for the West. Russia is gradually eroding Ukrainian manpower. As I said the West committed to helping Ukraine and they cant stop now,not morally anyway...the EU need to pay up. With Russia now having a wartime economy I expect that there will be an arms race,so we can all prepare for higher taxes to get our defence force up together. I agree on all points. It put a chill down me when I saw Putin saying, very clearly, that if article 5 is signed and Ukraine becomes a member of NATO that he would use the nuclear option. I really believe him too. He was unequivocal in this
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 27, 2024 11:53:31 GMT
At what cost ? The powers that be really should be looking for peace and not prolonging this, especially if you are right about Putin wanting a long conflict Spewtin will only stop HIS WAR when.and only when he gets his land grab complete..not interested in any sort of ceasefire until then , with 400,000 dead and god knows how many injured he will send that amount in again until his 3 day war is over ..providing he has achieved his goal I agree. I am not clever enough to have an answer in how to stop this but, historically, the whole old eastern bloc used to be fighting and swapping land, until the next war. I can’t help but wonder , given most speak Russian and were part of the old USSR, that maybe this is the only way but hit them with the toughest sanctions forever. It’s just an idea, Turkey and Africa are not helping this situation
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