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Post by lostinspace on Dec 25, 2021 15:07:06 GMT
Passed away today, suffering from a eosophical cancer, lent his voice to assisted dying after his wife had suffered from a form of the disease, excellent player RIP
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,590 
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 25, 2021 16:59:25 GMT
A very good captain well respected by his players. Not the best of stats for England with less than 2000 runs and 120 odd wickets in 61 tests but one of those very few players who was worth his place as captain alone for much of that time. I can only think of Mike Brearley who you could say the same of. It was a time of very good teams, Australia, West Indies and he won two Ashes series, one in Australia. A no-nonsense man manager who told it as it was and wasn’t afraid to upset people whoever they were. Would have found it hard today when you can’t really criticise players in the same way. We will not see his like again.
RIP Raymond Illingworth.
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Post by tenniscourtgas on Dec 27, 2021 15:40:48 GMT
Very sad to see yet another famous name pass away.
Illingworth had an incredibly long playing career, never properly establishing himself as an England regular for most of it, similar to Brian Close, such was the competition.
After the end of Jim Laker’s Test career, Illingworth was always behind off spinners such as David Allen, Fred Titmus as first choice, then Derek Underwood became the left hand spin option.
However, I can recall England took all three off spinners on one Australian tour, which drew a lot of criticism, but Illingworth was drafted in as an opener for one of the matches, due to injuries.
Yorkshire players in the sixties, seemed to have a reputation for being tough,ultra professional, a bit dour, blunt speaking, hyper critical of everyone else, which may not have endeared them to all.
Illingworth was known to be not a great fan of Colin Cowdrey, who was either captain,or vice captain of the England team for years, which might not have helped his England chances.
They won the county title most years, and were great champions of their own players, but only Trueman, and later, Boycott ever established themselves as first choice England players.
Their top players were always falling out with their administers, with Wardle, Close, Illingworth , and even Trueman leaving the county in less than warm circumstances.
Illingworth seemed to get better, as a player, the older he got, and was an excellent county cricketer, and achieved great success at Leicestershire as captain, dragging a county that was perennially a bottom of the table side, to a title winning side.
He was in his late thirties by then. and was made England captain for four or five years, achieving the huge success that followed.
His performances with bat and ball made him worth his place in the side, and made me think that I had under estimated him as a player, even though he never really ran through international sides in the way that Underwood did.
He was certainly well thought of by the England players he captained, and took his England players off the field ons day in Australia, when John Snow was jostled by Australian spectators.
I remember him as an astute commentator for the BBC, but his blunt speaking style didn’t bring the desired effect when later returned as an England coach or selector.
However, but his place as a great England cricket name is assured.
I wonder what he was making of the present shamble!
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,590
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 27, 2021 16:01:56 GMT
Thanks tenniscourt, always good to read your knowledgable posts.
He was a determined batsman as an England player and could bowl economically as a bowler without ever really bowling England to victory as Underwood could. I always thought there were better batsmen to come in at No.7 and better bowlers of spin but he was a great captain and probably got some wins when other teams had better players but he was always worth his place as captain imo. This at a time when there were some very good test teams. Australia were very good, Bev Congdons New Z team was one of their best teams after years of poor teams and India had a good team at the time to win for the first time in England in 1971 and it was the West Indies in 1973 who won the series in 1973 which did for Illingworth iirc.
Of the present shambles he would have been particularly forthright I would imagine and upset many people in the process. Not that he would have worried about that.
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