Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 13:48:47 GMT
There are plenty of candidates or is it just bad luck.
Where did it all go wrong?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 14:11:11 GMT
1) Wael for not appointing the right managers and not going for Darrell again.
2) A non league recruitment "guru".
3) All of the managers this season.
4) Not the players. It's not their fault, that collectively and (mostly) individually, they're not good enough for the third division.
5) Uri Geller.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Apr 17, 2021 14:15:07 GMT
There are plenty of candidates or is it just bad luck. Where did it all go wrong? A lot of fans blame players and managers, but theres more than that messing this club up isn’t there? In the world of business, someone owns a factory or hotel and wants something, they can put people between a rock and a hard place and by and large get what they need. You can’t operate like that in football, it’s a different ball game. To start with an owner doesn’t own club like he would factory or hotel, it belongs to fans and communities. Its value set should be theirs. Nor does he own players, agents do. Football fans are generally optimistic. Even last summer when we were signing full back upon fall back, when, even before Jonno went squad needed forwards, we still thought it might turn out alright. Well the squad was never good enough. If Hanlan and Ayunga played a conference season next year I don’t think they would light it up. We have gone two windows without adding a forward. Joey also benched Daley. Why? So it didn’t matter who the manager is. That said, I think all three managers showed some pretty crap game management at times. If Dalys fit, whats he doing sat on the bench? A defence that changes personnel, shape, duties as often as this is not likely to get clean sheets. And defences also need help from midfields and all the team in fact. And not just off the ball, but hold the ball to allow defence to make a higher line and not have opponents in possession deep in our territory. Where did it begin? Cocko was here, it was going well. Then he was gone just before a window saying taken them as far as I can, which is speculation but could be “ive had a chat with the board and they are not backing me.” To confirm such speculation it needs a response from the board like – we were planning to take it in a different direction anyway (noting here how many fans moaned and whined about type of football under cocko) so in comes young fancy dan future prospects in place of seasoned streetwise pro’s, and young coach on three year mission pretty football in place of seasoned streetwise manager. I’d like to know how much money we have paid agents last 18 months, if it’s a relegation how expensive was it to create, what with sacking managers after 80 days etc. tied in with agent influence I also like to know to what extent Garner was a nodding dog to boards and Tommys shopping list before criticising Garner. How his team set up and went about it against the lesser lights in this league was the best manager of the four this season by far imo. With his bizarre starting line ups, awful game management, and all round whiff of chaos, Joey is the worst.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Apr 17, 2021 14:23:03 GMT
So no one is innocent, not even us fans and bloggers - if we moaned about Cockoball
In fact some of the players out there setting career personal bests, time on pitch in adult match, goals, assists, are probably most blameless of all.
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axegas
Joined: November 2015
Posts: 222
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Post by axegas on Apr 17, 2021 14:32:22 GMT
1) Garner/Widdrington for thinking that going into the season with 3 young inexperienced strikers with a handful experienced strikers was in the slightest way a good idea. Even more bizarrely bringing in unnecessary left backs and midfielders that have barely made an impact whatsoever. Dreadful recruitment often results in dreadful teams as has sadly happened this year.
2) The board, that includes Wael for sacking 2 managers midway through a season. They should have got rid of Garner in the summer when it was clear that his was out of his depth managing at this level, sacking him midway through when he had a PPG greater than we have now was in retrospect a mistake and sacking Tisdale after just a few months when it was blatantly clear that any manager would struggle with side was aswell. When has having 3 managers in a season ever worked well?
3) Tisdale for not bringing in reinforcements in attack when it was clearly obvious we needed some in January. We couldn’t get Stockley or Gnaduillet supposedly but are you telling me that it was impossible to bring in a striker that could improve what we had currently and give us greater options? I don’t buy it at all.
4) The players for the dross performances they produce week in week out. Westbrooke’s deliveries have been dreadful, Harries and Baldwin have made many mistakes, Hanlan goal drought has severely cost us, Ehmer for being half the player we thought he would be. There’s some good individuals in this group but ultimately it is a poor crop of players as a whole.
5) B***** as his blame game interviews, questionable tactics and substitutions haven’t done anything to improve the situation. Admittedly I think B***** shoulders the least amount of blame out of who I’ve mentioned, but his awful PPG since taking over really has condemned us and yes I think there is more he could have done to get something out of this squad, it’s relegation worthy don’t get me wrong but not quite as bad as B*****’s record suggests.
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Post by laughinggas on Apr 17, 2021 14:56:48 GMT
There was a recent report on agents fees. Gas paid £62,108 to intermediaries over the past two transfer windows, significantly down from the £141,006 bill they racked up in 2019/20.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Apr 17, 2021 15:44:23 GMT
There was a recent report on agents fees. Gas paid £62,108 to intermediaries over the past two transfer windows, significantly down from the £141,006 bill they racked up in 2019/20. Don’t believe this after the summer we had. Agents and board were driving our purchasing last 16 months, not managers, hence not being able to say “no more left backs” when chance to sign Kioky
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Post by swissgas on Apr 17, 2021 16:04:26 GMT
There are plenty of candidates or is it just bad luck. Where did it all go wrong? A lot of fans blame players and managers, but theres more than that messing this club up isn’t there? In the world of business, someone owns a factory or hotel and wants something, they can put people between a rock and a hard place and by and large get what they need. You can’t operate like that in football, it’s a different ball game. To start with an owner doesn’t own club like he would factory or hotel, it belongs to fans and communities. Its value set should be theirs. Nor does he own players, agents do. You are right that blaming managers and players is dodging the issue but I think IrishRover might disagree with you about a club belonging to fans and communities. He has rightly identified the transition of many football clubs, including Rovers, from being led by and for a local community to being the toy of a wealthy owner which is administered on his behalf by faceless functionaries. And I would Fundamentally, Categorically and Absolutely disagree with your inference that football clubs cannot be compared to other types of business. . My view is that until Rovers adopt the basic principles employed by prospering businesses as a matter of course we will never have a sustainably successful football team. As with all businesses, large and small, the buck has to stop at the very top.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,200
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 17, 2021 16:06:47 GMT
Surely the buck stops with Wael Al-Qadi? No further questions.
Edit. I wrote this before seeing swiss comment.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Apr 17, 2021 16:12:44 GMT
TBH I think everyone looking around to blame someone is part of the problem. We are where we are, the most important thing is trying to sort out the mess, not blame someone for it.
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Post by swissgas on Apr 17, 2021 16:12:59 GMT
Surely the buck stops with Wael Al-Qadi? No further questions. Edit. I wrote this before seeing swiss comment. There is no doubt about it epping. But I can’t help thinking that by humiliating Wael it follows that B***** is also humiliating what we still want to see as our football club.
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Post by swissgas on Apr 17, 2021 16:25:42 GMT
TBH I think everyone looking around to blame someone is part of the problem. We are where we are, the most important thing is trying to sort out the mess, not blame someone for it. I agree with you Rex which is why, over the years, I’ve tried to put forward ideas based on my own experience. Of course this bores and irritates many fans but the reason I do it is because I genuinely believe that if we got the business side right then team success would follow. So many fans seem convinced that it’s quite normal for NDA’s to be used as an excuse every time communication would be difficult or that stakeholders must be “grateful” for everything a controlling shareholder does. You work in industry/distribution so you must know that this is not normal and that customers, suppliers, employees and all others associated with a business expect to freely interact with that business in a mature and mutually beneficial way. Only when we do that will we will ever sort out this mess.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,200
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 17, 2021 16:27:57 GMT
TBH I think everyone looking around to blame someone is part of the problem. We are where we are, the most important thing is trying to sort out the mess, not blame someone for igt. So you are suggesting that the person who is ultimately responsible for this mess, is the person we should trust in to get us out of it. Right. Got it.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Apr 17, 2021 16:30:57 GMT
TBH I think everyone looking around to blame someone is part of the problem. We are where we are, the most important thing is trying to sort out the mess, not blame someone for igt. So you are suggesting that the person who is ultimately responsible for this mess, is the person we should trust in to get us out of it. Right. Got it. That's not remotely what I said.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 16:39:42 GMT
TBH I think everyone looking around to blame someone is part of the problem. We are where we are, the most important thing is trying to sort out the mess, not blame someone for it. You need to identify where it's gone wrong first and resolve it but you are right there's no point in just finger pointing. Just watched the managers post match interview and he was clear that the players lack quality so it's obvious where he will focus his efforts in the summer and I don't think he will be using the current DOF for player recruitment.
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Post by a more piratey game on Apr 17, 2021 16:43:00 GMT
TBH I think everyone looking around to blame someone is part of the problem. We are where we are, the most important thing is trying to sort out the mess, not blame someone for it. You need to identify where it's gone wrong first and resolve it but you are right there's no point in just finger pointing. Just watched the managers post match interview and he was clear that the players lack quality so it's obvious where he will focus his efforts in the summer and I don't think he will be using the current DOF for player recruitment. 8 weeks ago they were 'the right group of players'
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 16:46:14 GMT
You need to identify where it's gone wrong first and resolve it but you are right there's no point in just finger pointing. Just watched the managers post match interview and he was clear that the players lack quality so it's obvious where he will focus his efforts in the summer and I don't think he will be using the current DOF for player recruitment. 8 weeks ago they were 'the right group of players' You don't need to convince me about our manager.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Apr 17, 2021 16:48:53 GMT
You need to identify where it's gone wrong first and resolve it but you are right there's no point in just finger pointing. Just watched the managers post match interview and he was clear that the players lack quality so it's obvious where he will focus his efforts in the summer and I don't think he will be using the current DOF for player recruitment. 8 weeks ago they were 'the right group of players' To be fair to him, he knew they were the players he would have to rely on to get us out of it and 'They're s***e, but hey ho let's get on with it' probably wouldn't have been the best rallying call to get your new troops onside! Like him or loathe him, we are stuck with JB (possibly aside from the court case) just as much as he is stuck with the players, us and the board. We are all in it together whether we like who we are in it with or not!
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Post by a more piratey game on Apr 17, 2021 16:52:26 GMT
8 weeks ago they were 'the right group of players' You don't need to convince me about our manager. Merely observing how quickly the worm has turned...
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Apr 17, 2021 17:00:26 GMT
A lot of fans blame players and managers, but theres more than that messing this club up isn’t there? In the world of business, someone owns a factory or hotel and wants something, they can put people between a rock and a hard place and by and large get what they need. You can’t operate like that in football, it’s a different ball game. To start with an owner doesn’t own club like he would factory or hotel, it belongs to fans and communities. Its value set should be theirs. Nor does he own players, agents do. You are right that blaming managers and players is dodging the issue but I think IrishRover might disagree with you about a club belonging to fans and communities. He has rightly identified the transition of many football clubs, including Rovers, from being led by and for a local community to being the toy of a wealthy owner which is administered on his behalf by faceless functionaries. And I would Fundamentally, Categorically and Absolutely disagree with your inference that football clubs cannot be compared to other types of business. . My view is that until Rovers adopt the basic principles employed by prospering businesses as a matter of course we will never have a sustainably successful football team. As with all businesses, large and small, the buck has to stop at the very top. i didn’t say it’s wholly different, only different from a business only in some regards. And I stand by it. firstly. Similar in terms of a business has expenditure so needs income to pay the bills, so you would infer it has to be careful with its money? Do people invest in most football clubs for the dividend it’s going to pay them, own them for the money they can make out of it? If it’s hobby/pastime for those who can afford to do it, like owning or part owning a race horse, it would suggest it is different from normal business. Where is the incentive to watch penny’s if sugardaddy is getting the credit card out? That goes against sensible rules of business. As exhibit A i present Lord Sugar happy to tell anyone who asks that when he took over Spurs he didn’t recognise the club operating like a business, or football in general operating like a business. this brings us secondly to the reason why. Our owner is getting the blame for relegation here tonight, but will he be receiving as much blame from fans of his pies or deckchairs if the pies or deckchairs were of relegation standard. The output from the football business is very different. As an example, imagine if we were run like the big Spanish Giants, you actually vote in the man in charge? The President needs to watch his own share price! The example I used above you fundamentally, absolutely disagree with, in normal business practice you can put someone between a rock and a hard place to get what you want, if you had to watch your own share price or opinion poll leads, you couldn’t. If you sack a manager more popular than you, you don’t get the vote you need. Even without the election, due to the unique end product that is reliant on fans, fans have to matter to this business owner.
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