Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 18:53:47 GMT
Not a bad summary but you can acquire planning permission on somebody else's land if you were stupid enough to do so without a deal to buy in place. Not sure that's strictly correct as you'll need their approval to carry out surveys etc, why would they agree to letting their agents on to there land until a sale price had been agreed in principle? It's also not strictly incorrect. "The good news is that it is possible to avoid a lot of risk without reducing the potential gain. This is because it is perfectly legal and possible to make a planning application on land you do not own. You don’t even need the permission of the landowner — permission goes with the land, not with the applicant."
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Post by simon1883 on Aug 7, 2019 20:12:41 GMT
Heard rumours of this months ago. The site is ex railway land. Interesting. Indeed it is. And as such will be considered contaminated for sure. Adding to the development costs. Interestingly enough, I was party to a presentation on this "Area" some time ago... The fruit market section was not highlighted in any way. However, there is major development planned around that area. WECA (West of England Combined Authority) seem to have secured funding for some pretty tasty infrastructure projects.... These all enable other development to take place....
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Post by simon1883 on Aug 7, 2019 20:14:20 GMT
Perfect for me mate got a railway station at the bottom of my garden 25 mins to temple meads surely this is in the “dings” a rovers stronghold before the Germans tried to destroy it we will see but boys of our age running out of time now although it would be great seeing all the old tote end boys having a knees up in motion I hear you mate. No train close to me, closest is keynsham. Would be added cost but I honestly do not see this happening at all. I too suffer from lack of trains and Keynsham is my nearest station.... would be nice to only drive 20 minutes and then the last few miles without a car to worry about
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Aug 7, 2019 20:32:58 GMT
Not sure that's strictly correct as you'll need their approval to carry out surveys etc, why would they agree to letting their agents on to there land until a sale price had been agreed in principle? It's also not strictly incorrect. "The good news is that it is possible to avoid a lot of risk without reducing the potential gain. This is because it is perfectly legal and possible to make a planning application on land you do not own. You don’t even need the permission of the landowner — permission goes with the land, not with the applicant." Wael said much the same in an interview with G20man (probably the one before this latest, but they all blur together after a while). Can't remember the exact context now but wasn't it along the lines of someone being interested in purchasing the Mem and it being their responsibility to look into planning permission for whatever it was they had in mind.
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Post by lostinspace on Aug 7, 2019 20:38:37 GMT
I hear you mate. No train close to me, closest is keynsham. Would be added cost but I honestly do not see this happening at all. I too suffer from lack of trains and Keynsham is my nearest station.... would be nice to only drive 20 minutes and then the last few miles without a car to worry about Weston -S-M or Worle closest to Cheddar, so 15/20 minute drive for a train ,or drive 30/ 35 into Bris!![then parking or P&R? ]
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Aug 7, 2019 20:52:51 GMT
Well I was sort of right:- How much work is going into it and how many options do you have at the moment?There are several options and there is a lot of work being done, with considerable cost. There is a lot of work that is going on with the various parties involved in all this and as soon as it is determined which site is a green light we will announce it. I assume the key is planning, is that what you're working on?Yes, the big issue here is, do you buy the site and then go for planning or do you make sure that you can get planning before buying the site? This is the issue that takes a lot of time, because you cannot just go and take a huge risk, acquire land and find out that you can't get a project up and going there. It's about making sure that you can get the stadium that you want and going ahead. I guess the current owners would have to pursue that planning application, if it's their land?It's being done through a third party so whoever pursues it will have to be on board with it. What is the time scale in terms of the site you would like to buy to develop a new stadium?
The process is under-going now. That question is very hard to answer because there are a lot of things that determine that, which are out of our hands. It requires a lot of studies with planning so I would say months before we can see if we are successful with this, it could be longer. It is complex isn’t it? You are looking for a site with planning permission to development and I guess likewise the people buying the Mem would want planning permission to be able to develop that site - is almost a circular arrangement.
It is up to them to make sure they get planning permission for whatever is going to happen at the Mem, not us. But like you they probably wouldn’t buy unless they had planning permission?
Exactly - this is why it takes a long time. www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alqadi-president-bristol-rovers-transcript-2648966
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Aug 7, 2019 21:20:54 GMT
Just listened to Wael's interview. It seems to follow on from that last one quite neatly. Would it be too simplistic to think that the plan is to get planning permission which then releases outside investment from whoever to pay for the stadium plus developing the training ground. And that the reason Dwane Sports have a charge on the Mem is nothing more sinister than to ensure proceeds from the subsequent sale of the Mem are paid to them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 21:39:52 GMT
The training ground is dependent on the new stadium because without the financial benefits of a new stadium we can’t afford it. Those would be future revenue streams that 'may' be there in the future. It's 'sort of an answer', but not one I have heard from a Board member ( I stand to be corrected).Many, many people have tried to get us a stadium and all have failed. Believe it or not but unless you’re a billionaire like Lansdown, willing to burn your fortune away in a narcissistic vanity project, it’s quite hard to fund and build a stadium for a heavily endebted club. We were not massively indebted before Dwane Sports took over. We are now.I think Wael gets too much stick. I believe he is genuinely trying. Not really any evidence to suggest he is genuinely trying. If he is - there is now output. Dwane Sports have had control for 3 1/2 years my friend. They have put up some tents.He got sold a dummy by Higgs who was well known to want to get out and get his money back, and he seemingly set up a deal which was not to the benefit of the club. It was purely to make it an attractive prospect to a buyer. Ok, perhaps Wael and co are guilty of not enough due diligence. Hurrah! We're getting somewhere. Something even the Wael disciples can agree with.As far as I can see; Our playing budgets if anything are slightly better than before All talk of budgets is speculation. In the interests of fairness, I'll concede that one to you anyway. I guess it's one of the reasons we are losing £3mil a year.Wael and co are trying to get us a new stadium He might be doing 'his best'. But sometimes that is not enough. Wael has said openly in the meantime if anyone comes in who can do it quicker, he will stand down Great that they are open to offers. Sadly for every month that passes, the price tag increases £250k. I mean crikey - that's the annual cost of a London office! Ok, he’s not the billionaire benefactor we hoped for. He never claimed to be that and was honest about it Fair point. Though a vision of a new stadium and category 2 training facility were down to his words, not our own expectations.Wael and co I am sure want to deliver. Of course! Do they have the finance/financial backing and are they economically astute enough to deliver? I don't see it.I’m not saying they are the saviours and I’m a huge Wael fan etc but I don’t buy the belligerent attitude. We have an owner who at least wants to move us on. Yeah - but it's just wishful thinking my friend, nothing more. The initial UWE deal collapsed 2 years ago. I've seen nothing apart from spinning wheels, BS and bluster since then.OK - I have tried to answer each point. Like I said - I think there is a fundamental issue with TRUST. From the comments I see, an awful lot of this is generational. The 'older' supporters are more cynical than the younger brigade. Is it belligerence? Or frustration? I guess the longer you've been Gas, the more frustrated you get. I am 54. You, I wager, are younger. Only three things I can think of will convince me the owners are credible. 1. Dwane Sports start work on the Training Facility (you know the one they said would be open on July 1st 2019 - but I take your point above) or, 2. Dwane Sports buys the land, obtains planning permission and has credible plans drawn up for the new stadium (fingers crossed in 6 months time then), 3. Dwane Sports write off some of the huge internal debt that BRFC owes them. This would then prove that they are actually putting their OWN MONEY in, and not just drawing the cash out of the credit facility which is based on the equity held within the Memorial Stadium. Writing off the interest BRFC have being charged at 6% would be a jolly good place to start. Good day to you Sir. Maybe the older people just have a bit more experience and can see that what's written above is a pile of tosh?
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Post by droitwichgas on Aug 7, 2019 21:44:25 GMT
Not sure that's strictly correct as you'll need their approval to carry out surveys etc, why would they agree to letting their agents on to there land until a sale price had been agreed in principle? It's also not strictly incorrect. "The good news is that it is possible to avoid a lot of risk without reducing the potential gain. This is because it is perfectly legal and possible to make a planning application on land you do not own. You don’t even need the permission of the landowner — permission goes with the land, not with the applicant." Read my post, whilst you can apply for planning in this age your not going to get it without environmental etc surveys and we aren't going to be able to carry those out without the Fruit Markets permission. Plus what's the point in get pp if we can't buy the land for a reasonable price anyway.
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Post by droitwichgas on Aug 7, 2019 21:46:34 GMT
Just listened to Wael's interview. It seems to follow on from that last one quite neatly. Would it be too simplistic to think that the plan is to get planning permission which then releases outside investment from whoever to pay for the stadium plus developing the training ground. And that the reason Dwane Sports have a charge on the Mem is nothing more sinister than to ensure proceeds from the subsequent sale of the Mem are paid to them. But the Fruit Market owners, Total Produce, have tweeted Wael directly claiming that no planning talks are taking place?
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Post by matealotblue on Aug 7, 2019 22:02:24 GMT
I still have not seen any statement or rationale as to why the owners/shareholders of the fruit market site have any incentive/need to move or relocate from their current site? Am I missing something here? We have a rationale for wanting the site. Other than lots of 💷💷 not sure what the rationale is on their side?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 22:19:00 GMT
It's also not strictly incorrect. "The good news is that it is possible to avoid a lot of risk without reducing the potential gain. This is because it is perfectly legal and possible to make a planning application on land you do not own. You don’t even need the permission of the landowner — permission goes with the land, not with the applicant." Read my post, whilst you can apply for planning in this age your not going to get it without environmental etc surveys and we aren't going to be able to carry those out without the Fruit Markets permission. Plus what's the point in get pp if we can't buy the land for a reasonable price anyway. We agree. Not impossible, highly unlikely and in this case totally irrelevant.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Aug 8, 2019 6:59:53 GMT
I still have not seen any statement or rationale as to why the owners/shareholders of the fruit market site have any incentive/need to move or relocate from their current site? Am I missing something here? We have a rationale for wanting the site. Other than lots of 💷💷 not sure what the rationale is on their side? Surely if the area is up for massive regeneration as council plans seem to suggest it would be better to hold out for a decent offer at this early stage before compulsory purchase orders come into play?
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Aug 8, 2019 8:10:20 GMT
Just listened to Wael's interview. It seems to follow on from that last one quite neatly. Would it be too simplistic to think that the plan is to get planning permission which then releases outside investment from whoever to pay for the stadium plus developing the training ground. And that the reason Dwane Sports have a charge on the Mem is nothing more sinister than to ensure proceeds from the subsequent sale of the Mem are paid to them. But the Fruit Market owners, Total Produce, have tweeted Wael directly claiming that no planning talks are taking place? I was thinking more in general. Just trying to make sense of why we keep being told about the search for sites and how the training ground ties in with that. With all the money that's allegedly being paid out on all this there must be some sort of plan that's being worked to. Re the tweet - is that the way the world communicates these days. I must be getting old As a non-tweeter, how does a direct tweet between two people get seen by others?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 10:52:46 GMT
The majority of teams are trying to move away from their grounds in this sort of location. We seem to be doing the total opposite. Yes we don't want a soul less stadium in the middle of nowhere either. But this location doesn't work on so many levels.
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 8, 2019 11:26:00 GMT
But the Fruit Market owners, Total Produce, have tweeted Wael directly claiming that no planning talks are taking place? I was thinking more in general. Just trying to make sense of why we keep being told about the search for sites and how the training ground ties in with that. With all the money that's allegedly being paid out on all this there must be some sort of plan that's being worked to. Re the tweet - is that the way the world communicates these days. I must be getting old As a non-tweeter, how does a direct tweet between two people get seen by others? Anyone can tag other users by placing their username eg @wael and then anyone who follows Wael will see it plus anyone who is interested can just search by using the hashtag #BristolRovers or other such words. It’s very simple in reality.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 8, 2019 11:54:47 GMT
The analogy doesn't quite work - unless you bought a flat that is worth £300k and you bought it for £100k. You can spaff the £300k up a wall and walk away owing nothing (not a massive profit). The 6% you charge yourself just disappears at point of sale as part of the spent equity. Finally, I think you're slowly getting there. It's been emotional. I think you missedthe point Apologies if I have. What was the point exactly?
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Aug 8, 2019 12:23:47 GMT
I was thinking more in general. Just trying to make sense of why we keep being told about the search for sites and how the training ground ties in with that. With all the money that's allegedly being paid out on all this there must be some sort of plan that's being worked to. Re the tweet - is that the way the world communicates these days. I must be getting old As a non-tweeter, how does a direct tweet between two people get seen by others? Anyone can tag other users by placing their username eg @wael and then anyone who follows Wael will see it plus anyone who is interested can just search by using the hashtag #BristolRovers or other such words. It’s very simple in reality. Ah right. Thank you. I might have a little play later.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Aug 8, 2019 15:19:06 GMT
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Aug 8, 2019 15:32:51 GMT
So maybe my simplistic thinking wasn't too far out. Who gets the Mem proceeds if this goes through though.
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